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The Bottom Line About Coordinator as a Qualification...

Interesting aside. It could be argued that folks like Dabo, Holtz and Meyer had the "it" factor that made them skip a level and stand out. We all know it exists but there's no way to qualify it. Just hope we are not assigning it to Beamer cause we " know and like" him. Maybe he has it. Maybe not.
No one knew any of them had it before they manifested it.
 
Interesting aside. It could be argued that folks like Dabo, Holtz and Meyer had the "it" factor that made them skip a level and stand out. We all know it exists but there's no way to qualify it. Just hope we are not assigning it to Beamer cause we " know and like" him. Maybe he has it. Maybe not.
The coaches and players who are speaking out about him (including Riley) describe him as “having a way about him”. Players say he “makes you want to play hard for him”. I have yet to hear anyone simply say “I just like him” or he “is a nice guy” when taking about why he will be a good HC. There is a stark difference in what has been said and what the nay sayers are repeating.

I get why people say it makes more sense for him to get a lower level HC job first, but even that would give no guarantees of success in the SEC. every hire has risk, but this may be the first time in, well EVER that we have the inside track on a hot up and coming candidate who could be a great HC, has ties here and really wants THIS JOB! I personally am rooting for him.
 
I’m not looking up the history of all those coaches, but Urban Meyer and Dabo are NOT good examples.

Urban Meyer was an assistant for years and then began his head coaching career NOT at a P5 program. If he jumped straight from assistant coach to Florida, you’d have a valid comparison, but that’s not what happened.

In the case of Dabo, he was firmly entrenched in that program for years. They fired Bowden mid season and named Dabo interim head coach. Then after the season, they chose to take a gamble and kept him on, most likely to save their recruiting more than anything else. Not even close. Now, if they’d named Beamer the interim when Spurrier quit and then took a gamble, you’d have a comparison, but again that’s not what happened.

i imagine if I went through the history of those coaches on that list, they’d be similar to the ones above and NOT similar to the Beamer situation. I bet you’d be hard pressed to find an instance of a major program in a P5 conference going out and hiring some other program’s assistant to be their head coach.
When Terry Don Phillips, Clemson AD at the time kept Dabo as permanent head coach, I read an interview that asked why chose to do that. He said he had attended many practices and noticed Dabo had his group of receivers more locked in, more organized than any other assistant. Thought those qualities would translate to a good head coach. KW is right. OC-DC aren’t the most important things
 
No one knew any of them had it before they manifested it.

They manifested it in other jobs before they got their shot at being a HC. People knew they were likely to do well.

Good coaches are in demand, especially those that have the IT factor. Shane moved every 2-3 years. I would be very Leary about that track record. If he was so good, why wasn’t he being promoted and kept around on some of these other staffs.
 
This is just for perspective. A Beamer hire isn't the outrageous risk it's gets played out to be but it is a significant one just the same. But as much as I like Chadwell too I think he is just as big a risk having never recruited against the top teams in the nation. I see the pros and cons of both. Napier is less of a risk perhaps but we've all seen coaches not make the move from the Other Five to the Power Five with success. I mean some do, some don't. I'll take one of those three come what may.
They’re all risks. There is no rule. Administration’s gut feel about individual’s personality, vision, know-how, and ability trump the objectives.
 
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The context is or was exactly the same for all of them. Based upon where those guys were in their careers when they became head coaches, it's nonsensical to preemptively dismiss Beamer. You need to prepare yourself.
This would be an effin' Caslen decision....meets none of the qualifications RT has always required.

Frankly, I want the candidate that 2 other SEC schools looked at and tried to hire (MSU and Mizzou) over one that no one else in any conference has even thought of....especially since the purported reason that the coach turned down those programs was because he wanted to be here. Frankly, haven't seen that level of dedication from Beamer....for a reason.
 
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JC is a known buffoon who wants Beamer to be the coach because he has a great relationship with him as a source going back to the Spurrier days. This clown tried to make Will Muschamp out to be the second coming of Vince Lombardi 5 years ago when everyone with a brain could see that fail job coming down the tracks. As for his coordinator experience argument, let's just say his "analysis" once again leaves much to be desired.

Ed Orgeron - Was Defensive Coordinator at Southern Cal from 2010-2013. First HC job was Ole Miss were he failed miserably. Three sub-.500 seasons and fired. So not only had HC experience when hired at LSU, but had P5, SEC head coaching experience.

Mack Brown - Was OC at Iowa State from 1980-81; and OC at Oklahoma in 1984. Had coordinator experience before being hired by App State as head coach 1983; and had HC experience (App State & Tulane) before being hired for a P5 job, UNC.

Mario Cristobal - was Co/OC at Oregon before taking the HC job at Oregon. Had coordinator experience.

Luke Fickell - was Co/DC at Ohio State from 2005-2010. Was interim HC for OSU for the 2011 season. First HC job was Cincinnati, not a P5 job. But had coordinator experience.

Not all of those coaches' first HC job was a Power 5 job; so that makes it not comparable to Beamer.

Jim Harbaugh - QB coach for the Raiders to HC of San Diego State. Had HC experience when hired for his first P5 HC job at Stanford.

Joe Morrison - HC at UT-Chattanooga and University of New Mexico before HC at SCar. He had HC experience before his first P5 job.

PJ Fleck - WR coach for Buccaneers to HC at Western Michigan. Had HC experience before his first P5 job Minnesota.

Lou Holtz
- Assistant at Ohio State to HC at William & Mary. Had HC experience before his first P5 job at NCST.

Kirk Ferentz - OL coach at Iowa to HC at Maine. Was OC for the Ravens from 97-98. Had HC experience and coordinator experience before his first P5 HC job at Iowa.
 
He worked at USC for four years, went to VT to work with his dad for 5 years. His dad retired, went to Georgia for a year and was offered a promotion to OK

not sure what’s hard to understand?
Evidently the question. You just restated what he did.

No, I'm not going to spell it out for you again.
 
No one knew any of them had it before they manifested it.
Charisma, gravitas', charm, style....you either have it or you don't., so we will have to agree to disagree. By the way, the man makes the clothes. What other cultural truism can we nail down today?
 
I'm also not going to explain mean to you.
You’re counting his graduate assistant jobs? In his last three jobs he has been there for 4 years and 5 years and the one year he left because he was offered a promotion.

I am confused what the red flag is
 
That's an indication, not a manifestation.

???? - The “IT” factor could be plainly seen in other jobs prior to the HC position. Not sure why you claim that is an indication vs. a manifestation. We re talking about an intangible characteristic that is not easily defined.
 
You are missing the much larger concern. Beamer decided against taking a smaller job as a HC to prove himself. This is too big of a hire to roll the dice on someone that has never been in the big boy chair.

Of course there is a chance Beamer could work out, but it is a big gamble.

Freeze, Napier, Chadwell are better candidates (at this point in time).
 
Muschamps failure doesnt magically make experience a bad thing.
No but it’s just an example that it also doesn’t guarantee anything just like past positive performance is not a future guarantee of success.

It is simply point out that there is no “sure thing” when it comes to coaching hires. There will be examples where certain things did work and examples where that same thing didn’t work. It’s all about finding that combination of coach and environment that will breed success and it’s not a one size fits all way to go about it.
 
They manifested it in other jobs before they got their shot at being a HC. People knew they were likely to do well.

Good coaches are in demand, especially those that have the IT factor. Shane moved every 2-3 years. I would be very Leary about that track record. If he was so good, why wasn’t he being promoted and kept around on some of these other staffs.
Precisely. This is a total shot in the dark hire. If it doesn't work out for him he's $20 mill+ richer. No sweat. He can retire or go back to position coaching when Daddy makes a phone call. If it doesn't work out for us, the dumpster fire burns even hotter.
 
Hiring the TE coach at Oklahoma wouldn't surprise me with Ray doing the Hiring. It'll last 5 years. Hopefully Ray won't make the next hire in 5 years.
 
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Hiring the TE coach at Oklahoma wouldn't surprise me with Ray doing the Hiring. It'll last 5 years. Hopefully Ray won't make the next hire in 5 years.
That post makes sense... Except he is not just “the TE coach” at Oklahoma. It immediately invalidates your points when ya’ll flat out lie about the man to make them.
 
No but it’s just an example that it also doesn’t guarantee anything just like past positive performance is not a future guarantee of success.

It is simply point out that there is no “sure thing” when it comes to coaching hires. There will be examples where certain things did work and examples where that same thing didn’t work. It’s all about finding that combination of coach and environment that will breed success and it’s not a one size fits all way to go about it.
Correct... and the Dabo comparison is important in this instance. Not just because he is an example of a guy making the move to HC without the normal experience/career path we expect, but because be is successful there due to the fact he is a good PERSONALITY fit. Be impressed the right people to get the job, he had the right personality to make players want to play for him, he did a good job of recruiting, and knew the culture of the program, but was also able to combine what he knew of clemsun with what he had learned in previous stops to create a plan that made them successful.

Is every bit of that identical to Beamer? Of course not, but there are a ton of similarities in how he has been described by current coaches he works with and former coaches, players and admin. He is described as an organized passionate leader who inspires his players. He knows how to win here and how to recruit here and he has experience at a bunch of other programs that are more successful than us. There is risk in any hire, but he has the qualities that indicate he could be a success here.
 
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Urban Meyer was never a coordinator. He was the Notre Dame wide receivers coach before he took the Bowling Green job.
Ed Orgeron has never been a coordinator.
Dabo Swinney has never been a coordinator.
Pat Fitzgerald has never been a coordinator.
Mack Brown has been a coordinator one year- at Oklahoma in the 1980s and Switzer was running things- and he was a head coach before he was that coordinator for one year.
Jim Harbaugh has never been a coordinator.
Joe Morrison was never a coordinator.
PJ Fleck has never been a coordinator
Sam Pittman has never been a coordinator
Lou Holtz never was a coordinator
Mario Cristobal has never been a coordinator
Kirk Ferentz has never been a coordinator at the college level
Luke Fickell has only been a co-coordinator
Joe Paterno was never a coordinator

Which of those guys coached in college or pro's for 18 years without being a coordinator before getting their shot? Besied Orgeron? Orgeron failed in his first job.

Seems like they all got a chance much earlier in their career which greatly contributed to why they skipped the OC or DC. But Beamer is so great? but yet he has coached so long with out a HC, OC, DC responsibility is concerning to me.

Beamer seems different in that regard to those on the list
 
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That post makes sense... Except he is not just “the TE coach” at Oklahoma. It immediately invalidates your points when ya’ll flat out lie about the man to make them.
Anybody that knows anything about College Football knows the title of Assistant Head Coach. Is a way get a position coach more money nothing more. Without looking Beamer is probably one lowest payed coaches on OU staff before he got the title of Assistant Head Coach.
 
If this was 2015, and we were looking for Spurrier's replacement, hiring someone without prior successful Head Coaching experience, might be worth a gamble. But since we already gambled by hiring a proven Head Coach failure in Muschamp (a gamble that has spectacularly blown up in our faces), can we really risk a 2nd consecutive roll of the dice? Spurrier's success here is not NOW that far behind us. But, let's say we hire Beamer, and we go through another 5 years of what we recently have gone through. The resulting perception of our football program nationally will be that of a doormat. And that would make Beamer's successor's job immensely more difficult. At least if we bring in someone now who has proven himself of having successfully been able to handle the pressures, responsibilities and duties of being the top dog, that person can build on the recent success of the Spurrier era, while it's still not in the too far distant past.

If Billy Napier, Jamey Chadwell, Shane Beamer and Neal Brown (HC of West Virginia who reportedly is interested) were stocks, who would Warren Buffett buy? Buffett generally does not invest in start-ups. For him, the risk is not worth it. Besides, a start-up often takes awhile to move the needle. Facebook didn't become Facebook overnight. Buffett looks for proven businesses. He tends to look for companies that are of good value to him, as opposed to something speculative.

A Clemson friend has suggested I disown our football program, and instead, become a Clemson football fan. I laughed off the suggestion and said going over to the dark side is not an option. I and just about every Gamecock fan vehemently opposed the hiring of Muschamp. However, I, and others, supported him after his hire and tried to convince ourselves that maybe, just maybe, it was not a bad hire, after all. If Beamer is the direction that is decided to go, we will certainly support Beamer. But, that won't take away from the fact that most of us will consider it another unwise decision.
 
Anybody that knows anything about College Football knows the title of Assistant Head Coach. Is a way get a position coach more money nothing more. Without looking Beamer is probably one lowest payed coaches on OU staff before he got the title of Assistant Head Coach.
He was actually hired with that title and left Georgia because of the promotion
 
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When Terry Don Phillips, Clemson AD at the time kept Dabo as permanent head coach, I read an interview that asked why chose to do that. He said he had attended many practices and noticed Dabo had his group of receivers more locked in, more organized than any other assistant. Thought those qualities would translate to a good head coach. KW is right. OC-DC aren’t the most important things
Dabo at clemson has the advantage of being in the ACC. Outside of the Florida schools, no one in the ACC will outrecruit clemson. Dabo was an easy decision for Terry Don Phillips. He knew he simply needed a super recruiter to win the ACC. Dabo had that reputation before being elevated. If you are going to succeed in the SEC, you better be able to do both, recruit and coach well.
 
Not a Beamer fan. Basically the same qualifications as Spurrier Jr, except many seem to be impressed because he is a nice guy. Personally, I'd rather see Chadwell get it than any of them. The man has a unique offensive mind and wins everywhere he goes. Done a great job at CCU, but the job he did at CSU is more impressive. Anybody that can win at that dump knows what they are doingcom.
Beamer is a great Recruiter. We need a Great Recruiter To Get Us Out of the Deep Dark Hole that WE ARE All In.

Shane can do this for us. There is a REASON some of the Best Players We have Ever Had: Engram, Lattimore Support his Hire.

If Shane Takes the Job and Hires Proven Competent Football Assistants He could make us a winner.

I was One of the Fools that LAUGHED about Dabo getting the Head Coaching Job.

I Mocked and Made Fun of Dabo and them. They said," We are going to see how he does. We 100 % support him."

I was really ENJOYING MYSELF for the 5 Wins in A Row. Fear the Index Finger, 4 in a row. Fear the Thumb 5 wins in a row over the taters. I was there for those losses by the taters it was really hard on them.

Guess What. After 4 straight Playoff Appearances and qty 2 Natys under dabo I am NOT LAUGHING ANYMORE.

The Current Joke is on Us. The Taters Made Swinney the Coach, because he was a Great Recruiter. They didn't want to lose recruits and they got Dabo at a Bargain Basement price, because of his lack of HC Experience.

Well you know all of the rest of the story. Muschamp deserved his reservations/Criticism for Failing at One of the Best Schools In College Football, UF.

Shane don't deserve the Same Criticism. If Someone else gets hired I will 100% support them until they show like MusChamp they can't do the Job.
 
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Sounds like from what I’ve read lately, Freeze, Napier, and Satterfield ain’t an option. Not sure, other than Beamer and Chadwell, who else may be a viable option. Hiring Beamer would definitely be a gamble, and different from any other head coaching hire I know of at Carolina. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like there are coaches standing in line to takeover the helm here. I think some of the fans, especially in this thread, need to wake up
 
Damn, I would've been pissed if I was Beamer. Ruffin McNeil had the title of Assistant Head Coach also and made 135,000 dollars more than Beamer.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/...gFHJvE9mHJTf8jwTS&ampcf=1&cshid=1606439492550
Has about three decades more experience and was AHC for three years, makes sense I guess?

also he was a holdover hire and they just kept his salary and he “retired”‘ next season
 
Anybody that knows anything about College Football knows the title of Assistant Head Coach. Is a way get a position coach more money nothing more. Without looking Beamer is probably one lowest payed coaches on OU staff before he got the title of Assistant Head Coach.
False- He has been AHC since he was hired in 2018. You know nothing of his responsibilities ob the staff, or what the “title means”...
 
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Everybody does but you.
Again, false. Lies do not become true wen repeated over and over. You know no more about his job at Oklahoma than anyone else. Clearly ya’ll are clueless you leave out at least three of his responsibilities every time you talk about him.
 
False- He has been AHC since he was hired in 2018. You know nothing of his responsibilities ob the staff, or what the “title means”...
It so important he made 430,000 while Ruffin McNeil made 570,000 in 2018, and both were position coaches while both holding the title of Assistant Head Coach.
 
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