THE HOLBROOK SITUATION

[MANAFOLD]

Some think Holbrook given time may prove to be a good head coach. This is admitting that as of now he is not. As I see it, Holbrook might in time prove to be head coach material but he should not be allowed to develop into a worthy coach on our dime. Holbrook needs to start up at some small college and earn his way to the big time. I cannot say one thing positive about the man at this point other than he is probably a pretty nice guy. The need to replace him has not been overstated by our fans and their reactions. Many fans now are not attending home games and I"m sure this will get the attention of the decision makers as they feel pressure to replace a mistake. I really hope Holbrook is not allowed to keep dragging down our once feared and proud program too much longer. Time to stop this Tanner experiment and get a really good young head man while we still are somewhat of a good baseball program.

 

[Black Cock Down]

There is no "situation." CH will get 6 years here, meaning he will be here at least 3 more seasons.

We honor contracts and certainly do not buy out coaches in non-revenue sports.

 

[Cackdiesel]

There is no "situation." CH will get 6 years here, meaning he will be here at least 3 more seasons.

We honor contracts and certainly do not buy out coaches in non-revenue sports.

I doubt that, unless his team shows some improvement.

 

[USCAndy]

Better not be here 6 years. Or Tanner needs his head examined. I think he should be gone after this season, but absolutely no more than one more year to get it turned around. And it isn't good enough just to get to the regionals either. We'd better at the very least be in a super regional next year or it's definitely bye bye! I'm tired of fans making excuses for him. Typical of our fanbase though. They're happy with mediocrity!

 

[superflyby]

There is no "situation." CH will get 6 years here, meaning he will be here at least 3 more seasons.

We honor contracts and certainly do not buy out coaches in non-revenue sports.

If the bottom line falls off with baseball Tanner will not have a choice. The baseball program is not a revenue program it does provide money to support itself with season ticket sales, concessions, and memorabilia. If there is a drop in that then it cuts into our ability to run the program as efficient as it was. You would have to weigh the cost of keeping Holbrook with salary vs cutting him lose because of falling revenue. I think it will be a toss up with that and the fact he is not the right guy would lead to a parting of the ways.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Holbrook has lost control of this team.

 

[Silverspur02]

Better not be here 6 years. Or Tanner needs his head examined. I think he should be gone after this season, but absolutely no more than one more year to get it turned around. And it isn't good enough just to get to the regionals either. We'd better at the very least be in a super regional next year or it's definitely bye bye! I'm tired of fans making excuses for him. Typical of our fanbase though. They're happy with mediocrity!

Andy, Andy, Andy. You wanted Ray Tanner fired in 2009 AND 2010. You wanted him fired in 2011, saying how bad our team was all year in both 2010 and 2011. It got so bad that when Jackie Bradley was asked to sign something "To Andy" he refused to sign because he thought it was you.
Now you're back again on Coach Holbrook's case!!!! TYPICAL, TYPICAL, TYPICAL.
But you are more like Pitiful, Pitiful, Pitiful.

 

[FORKCOCK]

Yep, Andy is the last guy on earth that anyone should listen to regarding Carolina baseball. He birched and whined like he'll during our two title runs.

 

[jackal3]

One thing everyone can agree on, there will be no title run this year!

 

[ReadR00ster]

With all due respect, if he was going to learn to be a good head coach he would have learned it from his experience under Tanner already. It's too late for him to learn. He's had his chance and it hasn't worked out. We want to be an elite college baseball program with an emphasis on winning and competing for championships, not a program where new head coaches get to struggle year after year until they get the hang of it.

 

[Supercock1984]

If the bottom line falls off with baseball Tanner will not have a choice. The baseball program is not a revenue program it does provide money to support itself with season ticket sales, concessions, and memorabilia. If there is a drop in that then it cuts into our ability to run the program as efficient as it was. You would have to weigh the cost of keeping Holbrook with salary vs cutting him lose because of falling revenue. I think it will be a toss up with that and the fact he is not the right guy would lead to a parting of the ways.

I understand what ya are saying,but how are ya going to feel if and when Holbrook starts winning?? Riddle me that

 

[hobcawcreekcock]

Whether Holbrook is the right man for this job seems up in the air at this point, and debatable. What cannot be debated is this baseball program has taken a step backwards in each of the last three seasons.

Holbrook years - btw - inherited a team that played for the NC (lost to Arizona) and won the NC the two previous years....

Season 1 - Lost in a SR at Chapel Hill. Nothing to be ashamed of here.
Season 2 - Lost a Regional in Columbia to a suspect program with NO tradition in baseball (Maryland)
Season 3 - most likely won't qualify for a regional, and may not even make the SEC tournament.

Steady decline, and ALARMING........

 

[Supercock1984]

Whether Holbrook is the right man for this job seems up in the air at this point, and debatable. What cannot be debated is this baseball program has taken a step backwards in each of the last three seasons.

Holbrook years - btw - inherited a team that played for the NC (lost to Arizona) and won the NC the two previous years....

Season 1 - Lost in a SR at Chapel Hill. Nothing to be ashamed of here.
Season 2 - Lost a Regional in Columbia to a suspect program with NO tradition in baseball (Maryland)
Season 3 - most likely won't qualify for a regional, and may not even make the SEC tournament.

Steady decline, and ALARMING........

Guess ya have all the answers don't ya??

 

[Garnet Man]

Better not be here 6 years. Or Tanner needs his head examined. I think he should be gone after this season, but absolutely no more than one more year to get it turned around. And it isn't good enough just to get to the regionals either. We'd better at the very least be in a super regional next year or it's definitely bye bye! I'm tired of fans making excuses for him. Typical of our fanbase though. They're happy with mediocrity!

Same song by the same poster....different day. Nobody is friggin' happy with mediocrity. Quit trying to read peoples' minds...you're not very good at it.

 

[pepsicock]

Better not be here 6 years. Or Tanner needs his head examined. I think he should be gone after this season, but absolutely no more than one more year to get it turned around. And it isn't good enough just to get to the regionals either. We'd better at the very least be in a super regional next year or it's definitely bye bye! I'm tired of fans making excuses for him. Typical of our fanbase though. They're happy with mediocrity!

I wish you go bye bye

 

[Supercock1984]

Wow ya people crack me up all yall care about is getting rid of Holbrook!!

 

[Cackdiesel]

Wow ya people crack me up all yall care about is getting rid of Holbrook!!

Please, go somewhere else. We've had enough of ya. Ya say the same things over and over again, ya. Ya like Holbrook, we know, ya. Ya don't like people who don't care for him, ya. We get it, ya. Now why don't ya go somewhere else and preach to the people there, ya. Ya seem like a good guy but ya driving me crazy.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

There is no "situation." CH will get 6 years here, meaning he will be here at least 3 more seasons.

We honor contracts and certainly do not buy out coaches in non-revenue sports.

Lol...this is ridiculous.

 

[CCUIrmo]

Take this for what its worth and it is just a rumor, but word is that UNC may be getting rid of their coach (Fox I believe is his name) and Chad is high on their list to go after. It is said he may listen as well.
I think Chad is a good coach and think things will get better, but if he goes, we better get someone good in. The next guy is not always better so be careful what you wish for. I played golf with a huge Tennessee fan yesterday and he said they were set back in football and now basketball for a while due to changing coaches so much. He thinks its karma what is happening to basketball right now after getting rid of Martin there.We need to make sure there is something better out there before we let Chad go.

 

[Rod Dangerfield]

Take this for what its worth and it is just a rumor, but word is that UNC may be getting rid of their coach (Fox I believe is his name) and Chad is high on their list to go after. It is said he may listen as well.

There is no way under the sun we could be that fortunate.

 

[Cock_Donor]

Better not be here 6 years. Or Tanner needs his head examined. I think he should be gone after this season, but absolutely no more than one more year to get it turned around. And it isn't good enough just to get to the regionals either. We'd better at the very least be in a super regional next year or it's definitely bye bye! I'm tired of fans making excuses for him. Typical of our fanbase though. They're happy with mediocrity!

I'm ok with this.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

Why would they get rid of Fox? He has a very good record there.

 

[Number1pjones]

Guess ya have all the answers don't ya??

If you mean that he stated the FACTS, then yes!

 

[racetrac]

It would be hard to fire Holbrook when Berson has done nothing for 10 years.

 

[Cocky kebo57]

There is no way under the sun we could be that fortunate.

I'm of the same opinion. No way we could be lucky enough to have UNC (let alone any other program) come in and snatch CH away from us after the season is over with. His 3 yr track record is only going downhill, not trending up.

 

[Supercock1984]

I'm of the same opinion. No way we could be lucky enough to have UNC (let alone any other program) come in and snatch CH away from us after the season is over with. His 3 yr track record is only going downhill, not trending up.

Forget yall,the last thing we need is for Holbrook to leave!!

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

Again, let's look at history- Tanner was the last coach here to miss the playoffs. He did it once And I believe it was in his THIRD SEASON as our head coach. He took over a very good baseball program, and won LESS GAMES THAN HOLBROOK THE FIRST THREE YEARS, missed the playoff a in yr three (despite winning the SEC East for the first time ever... How that happens I have no idea!) and we kept him around... He did nothing but go on to the NC game in 2002, went to the CWS THREE TIMES AND WON THE SEC THREE TIMES between 2000 and 2004, won two consecutive NCs in 2010 and 2011... Had we fired him in year three after the bad season, Where would this baseball program have ended up? I am pretty pissed about the state of this team right now, this is a piss poor season and something needs to change, but at this point that something is not the coach! We need the coach to mad, get his team on board and clean the crap out of his locker room. If guys are unhappy LET THEM GO PLAY SOMEWHERE ELSE. If we have to let some kids transfer, so be it. We recruit as well as any team in baseball, fighting the MLB for our players most years. We can replace ANYBODY FROM THIS TEAM. Martin will be a tough loss, but we have guys coming in who have the talent to play like him, we have a guy on the roster now who should develop into that kind of force if he starts seeing the ball again...
Baseball is as much a mental game as it is a physical one. A few negative attitudes can drag a team down. We need to start having fun again, play relaxed and get our guys in position to do what they do best- WIN. This is a frustrating season but it isn't over yet. A shocking turnaround is possible. If we do ok these last few games and make a run in the SEC tourney, we CAN make the playoffs and this team has the talent to beat anybody any day if we only get the chance to play them. Not a probable outcome, but it is possible. If we continue to struggle to this point next year, I think we all know Holbrook will be on the hot seat, but anybody who thinks after one bad season we are going to fire a coach who took us to two consecutive 40+ win seasons in his FIRST TWO SEASONS AS A COACH is smoking crack. One bad year does not erase the past two successful ones (yes, despite the early playoff exit last year they WERE successful seasons), and we are not going to fire this guy after only three years. He is a good coach, he HAS proven to be one by helping this team to championships as an assistant, and he has had some success as a HC as well. Is there a learning curve stepping up from assistant coach to HC? Sure. Overcoming adversity, bouncing back from a bad run is part of being a coach and this is where we find out how good he is. If we finish strong this year, great- good job coach. If we don't but bounce back next season after appropriate changes are made- great, good job coach. If we fall off the face of the earth the rest of this year and struggle the next two seasons, he won't get to finish his contract here.

 

[coxman]

Again, let's look at history- Tanner was the last coach here to miss the playoffs. He did it once And I believe it was in his THIRD SEASON as our head coach. He took over a very good baseball program, and won LESS GAMES THAN HOLBROOK THE FIRST THREE YEARS, missed the playoff a in yr three (despite winning the SEC East for the first time ever... How that happens I have no idea!) and we kept him around... He did nothing but go on to the NC game in 2002, went to the CWS THREE TIMES AND WON THE SEC THREE TIMES between 2000 and 2004, won two consecutive NCs in 2010 and 2011... Had we fired him in year three after the bad season, Where would this baseball program have ended up? I am pretty pissed about the state of this team right now, this is a piss poor season and something needs to change, but at this point that something is not the coach! We need the coach to mad, get his team on board and clean the crap out of his locker room. If guys are unhappy LET THEM GO PLAY SOMEWHERE ELSE. If we have to let some kids transfer, so be it. We recruit as well as any team in baseball, fighting the MLB for our players most years. We can replace ANYBODY FROM THIS TEAM. Martin will be a tough loss, but we have guys coming in who have the talent to play like him, we have a guy on the roster now who should develop into that kind of force if he starts seeing the ball again...
Baseball is as much a mental game as it is a physical one. A few negative attitudes can drag a team down. We need to start having fun again, play relaxed and get our guys in position to do what they do best- WIN. This is a frustrating season but it isn't over yet. A shocking turnaround is possible. If we do ok these last few games and make a run in the SEC tourney, we CAN make the playoffs and this team has the talent to beat anybody any day if we only get the chance to play them. Not a probable outcome, but it is possible. If we continue to struggle to this point next year, I think we all know Holbrook will be on the hot seat, but anybody who thinks after one bad season we are going to fire a coach who took us to two consecutive 40+ win seasons in his FIRST TWO SEASONS AS A COACH is smoking crack. One bad year does not erase the past two successful ones (yes, despite the early playoff exit last year they WERE successful seasons), and we are not going to fire this guy after only three years. He is a good coach, he HAS proven to be one by helping this team to championships as an assistant, and he has had some success as a HC as well. Is there a learning curve stepping up from assistant coach to HC? Sure. Overcoming adversity, bouncing back from a bad run is part of being a coach and this is where we find out how good he is. If we finish strong this year, great- good job coach. If we don't but bounce back next season after appropriate changes are made- great, good job coach. If we fall off the face of the earth the rest of this year and struggle the next two seasons, he won't get to finish his contract here.

Tanner took over after Raines rode the program straight downhill for more than a decade ending with a losing season. Holbrook took over after 3 consecutive CWS championship series appearances. NO comparison. Now it is looking like the two 40+ win seasons were in spite of Holbrook, not because of him. He certainly should not get a chance to struggle for 2 more seasons.

 

[AgnosticTrollCock]

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

Tanner took over after Raines rode the program straight downhill for more than a decade ending with a losing season. Holbrook took over after 3 consecutive CWS championship series appearances. NO comparison. Now it is looking like the two 40+ win seasons were in spite of Holbrook, not because of him. He certainly should not get a chance to struggle for 2 more seasons.

Well, HE WILL get AT LEAST two more seasons, baring some monumental collapse next year. The situations are not as dissimilar as you pretend hem to be. Rains may have had a worse season just prior to Tanner taki over, but he had plenty of success while he was here and Tanner did not inherit a terrible baseball team. Holbrook was a POSITIVE CONTRIBUTING FACTOR to the success we had before he be a me head coach, and since taking over the coaching role... If nothing else, he recruited damn near every one of those players that took us to to 40+ wins the past two years! We may (or may not) miss the playoffs his year, and that sucks... But it is not the end of the road for Holbrook and no amount of whinning, crying and twisting of the facts from our fan base will change it. So, accept it, support the team anyway and hope he can turn things around, or Skip town and become a fan of another school- the only other option is to live a miserable, disgustingly negative existence centered around trashing coaches and players and calling for a man to lose his job constantly- IOW the only other option is to turn in USCANDY. I certainly hope most of our fans don't adopt that option!

 

[Cock_Donor]

Well, HE WILL get AT LEAST two more seasons, baring some monumental collapse next year. The situations are not as dissimilar as you pretend hem to be. Rains may have had a worse season just prior to Tanner taki over, but he had plenty of success while he was here and Tanner did not inherit a terrible baseball team. Holbrook was a POSITIVE CONTRIBUTING FACTOR to the success we had before he be a me head coach, and since taking over the coaching role... If nothing else, he recruited damn near every one of those players that took us to to 40+ wins the past two years! We may (or may not) miss the playoffs his year, and that sucks... But it is not the end of the road for Holbrook and no amount of whinning, crying and twisting of the facts from our fan base will change it. So, accept it, support the team anyway and hope he can turn things around, or Skip town and become a fan of another school- the only other option is to live a miserable, disgustingly negative existence centered around trashing coaches and players and calling for a man to lose his job constantly- IOW the only other option is to turn in USCANDY. I certainly hope most of our fans don't adopt that option!

You've been wrong so many times in this thread it's starting to get ridiculous. You're right, Tanner didn't inherit a "terrible baseball team." Instead, he inherited the WORST baseball team of the last 46 years while Holbrook inherited an elite program at its peak that may very well have been the best job (conditions and scenarios) in the history of college baseball. Also, the only person here twisting facts is you, buddy. I'm all for allowing CCH a chance another year to right the ship but there HAS to be a line in the sand. If facilities, recruiting, sponsorships, and academic amenities are up to par and losses continue then the problem is obvious. Get your head out of the sand.

 

[FORKCOCK]

If I took over a plum account and ran it in the ground in three years my boss would cut me loose.

 

[searooster]

You've been wrong so many times in this thread it's starting to get ridiculous. You're right, Tanner didn't inherit a "terrible baseball team." Instead, he inherited the WORST baseball team of the last 46 years while Holbrook inherited an elite program at its peak that may very well have been the best job (conditions and scenarios) in the history of college baseball. Also, the only person here twisting facts is you, buddy. I'm all for allowing CCH a chance another year to right the ship but there HAS to be a line in the sand. If facilities, recruiting, sponsorships, and academic amenities are up to par and losses continue then the problem is obvious. Get your head out of the sand.

The bottom line is both Tanner and Holbrook faced rebuilding jobs when they took the job, the nucleus of the CWS championship teams that Tanner and Holbrook coached and developed were long gone when Holbrook took over as HC. Neither he or any other coach are awarded "bonus wins" as you see to suggest for championships won 2 -3 years earlier.
You start over with a new team, .ie. rebuild.

And,in the future, when someone presents facts that contradict your position, you don't improve your position simply by calling the other guy "wrong, Buddy, get your head out of the sand", an other chidish phrases, you need to present facts that support your opinions, not more opinions unsupported by any facts.

 

[coxman]

Well, HE WILL get AT LEAST two more seasons, baring some monumental collapse next year. The situations are not as dissimilar as you pretend hem to be. Rains may have had a worse season just prior to Tanner taki over, but he had plenty of success while he was here and Tanner did not inherit a terrible baseball team. Holbrook was a POSITIVE CONTRIBUTING FACTOR to the success we had before he be a me head coach, and since taking over the coaching role... If nothing else, he recruited damn near every one of those players that took us to to 40+ wins the past two years! We may (or may not) miss the playoffs his year, and that sucks... But it is not the end of the road for Holbrook and no amount of whinning, crying and twisting of the facts from our fan base will change it. So, accept it, support the team anyway and hope he can turn things around, or Skip town and become a fan of another school- the only other option is to live a miserable, disgustingly negative existence centered around trashing coaches and players and calling for a man to lose his job constantly- IOW the only other option is to turn in USCANDY. I certainly hope most of our fans don't adopt that option!

Raines and Holbrook have 1 thing in common to this point. They both got worse every year. If we do not improve from this very spot we are in then Holbrook should be gone by the end of next season if not sooner.

 

[sclawman77]

The bottom line is both Tanner and Holbrook faced rebuilding jobs when they took the job, the nucleus of the CWS championship teams that Tanner and Holbrook coached and developed were long gone when Holbrook took over as HC. Neither he or any other coach are awarded "bonus wins" as you see to suggest for championships won 2 -3 years earlier.
You start over with a new team, .ie. rebuild.

And,in the future, when someone presents facts that contradict your position, you don't improve your position simply by calling the other guy "wrong, Buddy, get your head out of the sand", an other chidish phrases, you need to present facts that support your opinions, not more opinions unsupported by any facts.

You meant Holbrook should have been "reloading" with all the top 10 recruiting classes we got after the title run. No comparison between the teams Tanner and Holbrook took over respectively. Tanner took over a team that missed the SEC and NCAA tournament. Holbrook took over a team that was coming off a 3 year consecutive title run. And if you really want to compare the two, Tanner had us as the #1 seed in the NCAA tournament (56 wins, 25 SEC wins-a record at the time) by year 4. Do you see Holbrook building that next year losing our three biggest bats and two best arms? And if you think he's really "rebuilding", what exactly has he built to this point? We currently have the worst team batting average at Carolina since 1971 I heard the other day.

 

[Cock_Donor]

The bottom line is both Tanner and Holbrook faced rebuilding jobs when they took the job, the nucleus of the CWS championship teams that Tanner and Holbrook coached and developed were long gone when Holbrook took over as HC. Neither he or any other coach are awarded "bonus wins" as you see to suggest for championships won 2 -3 years earlier.
You start over with a new team, .ie. rebuild.

And,in the future, when someone presents facts that contradict your position, you don't improve your position simply by calling the other guy "wrong, Buddy, get your head out of the sand", an other chidish phrases, you need to present facts that support your opinions, not more opinions unsupported by any facts.

I don't think the word "rebuild" means what you think it does. Okay, let's just remove the possibility of accuracy and continue down your path of disingenuousness. In that spirit, I'll concede both coaches inherited rebuilding jobs. It's just that one of them inherited a program that had immense national exposure (for college baseball), a highly-ranked incoming class, a nearly new stadium, new study facilities for athletes, rabid fan support, and new offices for coaches to work and recruit out of. The other coach inherited the absolute worst version of USC baseball from the last 50 years. That's fact, not emotion. Regardless, I'm ok with giving him another year but there HAS to be a performance improvement plan in place, containing milestones he needs to meet to keep his job. That's with any business but especially those where people are paid $275K+ to produce results.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

You meant Holbrook should have been "reloading" with all the top 10 recruiting classes we got after the title run. No comparison between the teams Tanner and Holbrook took over respectively. Tanner took over a team that missed the SEC and NCAA tournament. Holbrook took over a team that was coming off a 3 year consecutive title run. And if you really want to compare the two, Tanner had us as the #1 seed in the NCAA tournament (56 wins, 25 SEC wins-a record at the time) by year 4. Do you see Holbrook building that next year losing our three biggest bats and two best arms? And if you think he's really "rebuilding", what exactly has he built to this point? We currently have the worst team batting average at Carolina since 1971 I heard the other day.

Did anybody see TANNER taking his team to that level after his third season, when- AGAIN- he MISSED THE PLAYOFFS...? Probably not.. But he DID IT. Will Holbrook? Nobody here knows- not you, not me, not Holbrook or Tanner. What we DO know is that he will get the shot to do it here. If he hasn't built a better team within the next few years, he probably will be gone. Denying the similarities between the first few years of Tanner and Holbrook thus far is obtusely ignorant. Nobody said it was the exact same situation, nobody said Raines Gave Tanner the Same team Holbrook got, but the success levels of their first three years were pretty similar. That is the point I was making, it is based off of records and FACTS, you keep throwing around subjective OPINIONS to counter and say I am the one twisting things? BS. Believe whatever you like.

 

[Cock_Donor]

Did anybody see TANNER taking his team to that level after his third season, when- AGAIN- he MISSED THE PLAYOFFS...? Probably not.. But he DID IT. Will Holbrook? Nobody here knows- not you, not me, not Holbrook or Tanner. What we DO know is that he will get the shot to do it here. If he hasn't built a better team within the next few years, he probably will be gone. Denying the similarities between the first few years of Tanner and Holbrook thus far is obtusely ignorant. Nobody said it was the exact same situation, nobody said Raines Gave Tanner the Same team Holbrook got, but the success levels of their first three years were pretty similar. That is the point I was making, it is based off of records and FACTS, you keep throwing around subjective OPINIONS to counter and say I am the one twisting things? BS. Believe whatever you like.

You talking about Tanner's third season, the one where USC won the SEC East? Yeah, winning the East is exactly the same as losing to almost every team in this state and a series to a UT team that hadn't won an SEC series in almost 10 years. Yeah, exactly the same.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

You talking about Tanner's third season, the one where USC won the SEC East? Yeah, winning the East is exactly the same as losing to almost every team in this state and a series to a UT team that hadn't won an SEC series in almost 10 years. Yeah, exactly the same.

Again, I NEVER SAID IT WAS EXACTLY THE SAME- YOU apparently don't understand the difference between "SIMILARITIES" and "EXACTLY THE SAME". My point was about missing the playoffs. We missed the playoffs last during Ray's third season, and I think it is pretty obvious we are in danger of that same fate this season. Nobody said ANYTHING WAS EXACTLY THE SAME, you are just incapable of having an adult conversation and want to pull at straws and try to make everything into an argument. What are you thirteen? Grow the Hell up!
Believe whatever you want- but the facts are Holbrook WILL get a chance to turn things around, his third season seems to be leaving him in a very SIMILAR POSITION to where Tanner was after three years, and NOBODY KNOWS where his team will end up next year.

We have the talent to turn things around and make a run into the playoffs and wind up in Omaha THIS YEAR. The way we have recruited, we WILL have the talent to win it all next year if they put everything together... The issue is that in baseball, TALENT doesn't guarantee WINS. You can lose a bunch of close games because of bloop singles, Lack of timely hitting, guys going cold at the plate, a few injuries to key guys- ALL OF WHICH WE HAVE SEEN THIS SEASON- and poor coaching decisions- which we HAVE also seen this year. The flip of that is that if we get HOT, finish with another ten+ game win streak like we saw earlier this season... There is no telling where this team could go, and a month from now all you nay Sayers would be riding Holbrook's jock like his name was Ray Tanner... So go play the "nuh uhh, uh huhhh" game with somebody else boy, I am tired of it. I made my point, you can cry about it or deal with it, I don't really care.

 

[coxman]

Did anybody see TANNER taking his team to that level after his third season, when- AGAIN- he MISSED THE PLAYOFFS...? Probably not.. But he DID IT. Will Holbrook? Nobody here knows- not you, not me, not Holbrook or Tanner. What we DO know is that he will get the shot to do it here. If he hasn't built a better team within the next few years, he probably will be gone. Denying the similarities between the first few years of Tanner and Holbrook thus far is obtusely ignorant. Nobody said it was the exact same situation, nobody said Raines Gave Tanner the Same team Holbrook got, but the success levels of their first three years were pretty similar. That is the point I was making, it is based off of records and FACTS, you keep throwing around subjective OPINIONS to counter and say I am the one twisting things? BS. Believe whatever you like.

If he hasn't built a better team within the next year, he probably will be gone.

There are no similarities between the first few years of Tanner and Holbrook thus far.

the success levels of their first three years are nowhere near similar.

the point you were making is based off of your subjective OPINIONS and you are the one twisting things.