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Those of you ripping Holbrook--

cock enforcer

Active Member
Aug 6, 2002
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Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
 
Originally posted by cock enforcer:
Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
On Kornblut's show Holbrook just ripped some on the team about attitude for today's game! I am very pleased! He is showing a backbone!
 
Originally posted by boatingsportscock:
Originally posted by cock enforcer:
Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
On Kornblut's show Holbrook just ripped some on the team about attitude for today's game! I am very pleased! He is showing a backbone!
Should have shown that backbone when he scheduled the game for 4pm on a weekday. Leggett got exactly what he wanted and Holbrook got what he deserved. Stupid, stupid decision.
 
Originally posted by 75CarolinaFan:
Originally posted by boatingsportscock:
Originally posted by cock enforcer:
Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
On Kornblut's show Holbrook just ripped some on the team about attitude for today's game! I am very pleased! He is showing a backbone!
Should have shown that backbone when he scheduled the game for 4pm on a weekday. Leggett got exactly what he wanted and Holbrook got what he deserved. Stupid, stupid decision.
I think Clemson is a little better than us right now. But I totally agree with your post.
 
Originally posted by jeff2001:

Originally posted by 75CarolinaFan:
Originally posted by boatingsportscock:
Originally posted by cock enforcer:
Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
On Kornblut's show Holbrook just ripped some on the team about attitude for today's game! I am very pleased! He is showing a backbone!
Should have shown that backbone when he scheduled the game for 4pm on a weekday. Leggett got exactly what he wanted and Holbrook got what he deserved. Stupid, stupid decision.
I think Clemson is a little better than us right now. But I totally agree with your post.
And I agree with yours. We are not a top 10 team and weren't before this series. But as a head coach it's your job to put our team in the best position to win with every possible advantage.

This is about how I see the deal between Leggett and Holbrook going down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuvE-g0d9ts
 
Originally posted by cock enforcer:
Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
Yes, praise the lord for that little Chad. Lord knows ye ain't s'posed ta question nobody round here. Let's all get our hymn books and sing some praises. Glory be to mediocre gamecawk baseball. Glory be.
 
Originally posted by boatingsportscock:
Originally posted by cock enforcer:
Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
On Kornblut's show Holbrook just ripped some on the team about attitude for today's game! I am very pleased! He is showing a backbone!
I'm sick of hearing how "tough" Holbrook finally is getting. Does the guy not know how to motivate his players already?
 
How in this God's world did Holbrook go with a pitcher today that had an ERA of 4.4? For the life of me I don't understand that move.
 
Originally posted by Freddie.B.Cocky:

How in this God's world did Holbrook go with a pitcher today that had an ERA of 4.4? For the life of me I don't understand that move.
Might the number of games being played this week factor into his decision?
 
Jerry Meyers is one of the best pitching coaches in the country. Pitching was a major let down yesterday. Are we going to question Meyers now? Are we going to blame bad pitching on Holbrook like many blamed Tanner for Calvi. Then the team wins a national title with Calvi and Tanner in 2010??

You get the idea. This might not be a great team, but it's not because of poor coaching. Guys like Roth and Price don't come around often.
 
Assessment of team:
Our #1 and 2 starters are very good and will have us compete in games they start.
Have to settle on a #3 and feeling is it is Murray or Schmidt.
If Mincey had not gotten suspeneded maybe Widener as #3 and Mincey as closer.

Big dropoff behind plate from last 3 years.
Martin will be fine
Shrock will be fine
Hope Mooney settles in at short and Gore could move to left
Fine at 3rd with DC
CF and RF solid
DH: Destino is still a freshman and will have growing pains: Platoon with Caldwell based on matchup???

Have to be able to cover more ground and field better in LF
 
Originally posted by cock enforcer:
Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
first off, i don't remember anyone ever ripping ray tanner. ever.
second off, we were an elite program. we are not now. we are an under achieving program. thats just the facts.
 
How much of an impact do baseball coaches really have on the success of a team anyway? Obviously in college putting the team together with recruiting, development, etc.. but with Holbrook he hasn't been here long enough to fully judge that.

It isn't like basketball or football where you have to call plays and fit together the ability/style of each player into a single action.

How many runs does filling out the lineup well and calling timely bunts/hit and runs really account for? Can coaches really make players hit or pitch significantly better? Also, if they can isn't that the job of the hitting and pitching coach?

I think that acquiring and managing talent on the team is extremely important, but my point is that you can't really judge Holbrook in that category much as of yet.
 
Holbrook replaced the best coach in USC's history, ANY sport. Not an easy thing to do, but he did assume the reins to a top 5 baseball program. Holbrook's fault if he can't sustain that success, imo....

We certainly don't look like a top five program anymore. Hopefully, we will improve. If not, it will be a long season!
 
^^^ I hope this is sarcasm. Coaching has everything to do with the game. Batting lineups, pitching rotations, hit and runs, bunts are all what make up the game. CH is not doing a very good job of any of these. Look at who our starting pitcher was on Sunday. What coach in coaches pitch would have started who we did. We got spoiled with having Tanner. I hate to see all that was built start to crumble. We became a national power and now are slowly doing back down. I know the season is young but I don't like what I see so far. Hope we can turn it around.
 
Originally posted by spinrbait:
Originally posted by cock enforcer:
Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
first off, i don't remember anyone ever ripping ray tanner. ever.
second off, we were an elite program. we are not now. we are an under achieving program. thats just the facts.
You're kidding. Tanner was being ripped badly in 09 and 10. We started 6-4 losing two to ECU and Clemson in 2010 and he was catching hell.Proves that a lot of the posters aren't any smarter than they were five seasons ago. You would think that some would let the season play out before declaring all is lost. "Any fool can criticize,and most fools do."

This post was edited on 3/3 9:57 PM by pdgamecock

This post was edited on 3/3 10:04 PM by pdgamecock
 
Originally posted by cock enforcer:
Many of you ripped Ray Tanner when he didn't make the World Series from ''05-'09. Said he was washed up and question his strategy constantly.

We are an elite program, but it is not our birthright to make it to Omaha every year. Still a long season ahead. We'll be fine!
I doubt even if anyone called out Tanner they certainly weren't calling for his job. He was a proven manager. Holbrook is not.
 
For those doubting that folks were questioning Tanner's coaching ability, calling for him to be gone after the ECU and Clemson series losses in 2010...it did happen. I remember being on this very board during the Sunday ECU game, and folks saying that Tanner didn't have what it takes, using some of the very same words being used against Holbrook today. EVen I was questioning it a little, I was so irritated. Yes, there was a lot of the wonderful "Fire Calvi" going around, but if you went into threads and read the discussions, many revolved around not just Calvi's ability, but Ray's as well.

I believe memoires of how 2010 started are clouded by how it ended.
 
It wasn't just ECU. It was Atlanta Regional and Raleigh as well. It was full on meltdown. Fans have short to no memories. We won't even get into two SR losses under Tanner to UGA and UNC and comments made because we won the first game of both those series. Fans taking Hobrook to task for UNC two years ago and act holier than thou about Tanner. Same people were saying same stuff about Tanner after the Athens and Chapel Hill losses. We also need to remember the "dumb luck" find in 2010 CWS. It's not as if Tanner knew Roth would be Michael Roth. If he knew that he would have been more than a lefty specialist. Sometimes you need good fortune to push you over the hump and it happened in 2010. No different than praising the Patriots about drafting Brady. Well, that was luck too...if they knew was good he doesn't go in the 6th round. Things like that alter history in sports many times.
This post was edited on 3/4 10:10 AM by jackal3
 
True Jackal. I'd forgotten about how folks were acting after the UGA Super, Raleigh, and of course the ECU regional of 2009.

I will say with certainty now that memories of how fans felt about Tanner are clouded by how 2010 and 2011 turned out.
 
People want to complain just to have something to complain about. Look at the ripping Spurrier has received from this past year and he is freaking Spurrier. If fans are going to rip a coach who has taken the football program to a level of consistency the school has never seen as well as being a proven winner and HOF coach I fear Holbrook has little opportunity to succeed in many fans eyes short of winning the CWS. And how this stuff turns into Tanner has no backbone buddy buddy with coaches etc is beyond me. Should Tanner have fired Spurrier after this year? Ridiculous, who would take the job if you get canned after 3 11 win seasons and a 7 win season. Nobody on this board has a clue what discussions take place between Tanner and coaches. It's speculation and 5th hand info from somebodies great aunt who used to date someone who worked in the roundhouse in 1979.
 
Originally posted by jackal3:
People want to complain just to have something to complain about. Look at the ripping Spurrier has received from this past year and he is freaking Spurrier. If fans are going to rip a coach who has taken the football program to a level of consistency the school has never seen as well as being a proven winner and HOF coach I fear Holbrook has little opportunity to succeed in many fans eyes short of winning the CWS. And how this stuff turns into Tanner has no backbone buddy buddy with coaches etc is beyond me. Should Tanner have fired Spurrier after this year? Ridiculous, who would take the job if you get canned after 3 11 win seasons and a 7 win season. Nobody on this board has a clue what discussions take place between Tanner and coaches. It's speculation and 5th hand info from somebodies great aunt who used to date someone who worked in the roundhouse in 1979.
Only a few dummies may have wanted Spurrier fired but a lot of people, fans and supporters wanted him to have back bone enough to can Ward. He's making big bucks to make big difficult decisions pertaining to his staff.
 
Originally posted by jackal3:
People want to complain just to have something to complain about. Look at the ripping Spurrier has received from this past year and he is freaking Spurrier. If fans are going to rip a coach who has taken the football program to a level of consistency the school has never seen as well as being a proven winner and HOF coach I fear Holbrook has little opportunity to succeed in many fans eyes short of winning the CWS. And how this stuff turns into Tanner has no backbone buddy buddy with coaches etc is beyond me. Should Tanner have fired Spurrier after this year? Ridiculous, who would take the job if you get canned after 3 11 win seasons and a 7 win season. Nobody on this board has a clue what discussions take place between Tanner and coaches. It's speculation and 5th hand info from somebodies great aunt who used to date someone who worked in the roundhouse in 1979.
And who exactly wanted Spurrier fired? Yeah, that's a silly strawman argument. PPP just released a poll after the season showing Spurrier more popular than sunshine and kittens (97% approval from fans). So, your argument is bunk.

Now should the AD express concern if two football coaches got in a shoving match on the sideline? Seems like he would. Would he maybe suggest to the guy making 4.2 million dollars, has one of the highest paid staffs in the country, including two of his sons, that hiring a high school coach that was fired from his previous college job, was not a great idea? Maybe suggest going out and spending the money to find a proven DC rather just promoting from within? Seems reasonable. Maybe that AD would consider a national search for a replacement baseball coach rather than just promoting from within - again.

Nah.
 
ok, so maybe fired was too strong. Bottom line while I agree Ward is not the answer we didn't have the players to be good on defense. Would a different DC have helped against UK, UT, Mizzou....maybe to probably. However, if we hold on and win those games, fans are not clamoring for Wards head or at least not as many. It would be young defense, another year in weight room etc...

I am not defending Holbrook. However, using the national search is bunk. That is basically what we did when we hired one of the NATIONAL up and coming asst coaches. It's not as if Holbrook would not have landed a job somewhere else because he would have. Now, it's time to see if he can do the job. Am I concerned about the possibility of the program declining, yes. But not as much for some of his in game managerial decisions or whether he can actually be effective offensive coach---chalk that up to learning on the job. I am concerned with recruiting and I hope he makes a change in philosopy that we have had (this includes Tanner) since BBCOR was introduced/being introduced. It appears the ball is bringing the HR back in play (HR up over 40% from this time last year). We need to get more physical in corner outfield and third in my opinion. Destino an example of HR are back in play. One of the things the Clemson series should teach us is Dugger, Okey, Wilson, Rohlman has put a physical presence back in the game versus defense, bunt being priority 1 (pitching is always priority 1). Look at our lineup daily, not much punch from a power perspective in corners or third. Why? All middle infielders by trade (Caldwell not withstanding but he not a HR guy). Schrock exception thank goodness as a second baseman with some thump. I think all those kids can hit (love what Gore brings), but sometimes it can be tough to string together enough hits to score without some sock in lineup.
 
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