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Throwing another $61,000,000 into Littlejohn

permacock70

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2000
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Orig. built in 1968 for $8,000,000, $31,000,000 was spent on renovation in 2003. Now, just 12 years later Clemson will spend a a whopping $61,000,000 on another renovation to a building that currently looks pretty nice to most Clemson fans I talk to.

The current renovation will actually reduce seating to 8,000 from the current 10,500 capacity. (Yes, you read that correctly.)

Paul Borick, project manager for the 2003 renovation, evidently loves the "real basketball atmosphere of
Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium which happens to seat, you guessed it, 8,000. Borick, now at tiny Wake Forest, constantly speaks badly of larger revenue generating multi use facilities in Raleigh and Columbia.

According to the USA TODAY database Clemson's athletic dept. showed a 2014 profit of less than $1,300,000 after expenses of some $73,500,000.

I'm sure Paul Borick will just love it.
 
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I'm pretty sure it has been funded

Yep! I'm sure that Klempson's 'Legislator Daddy' (White, R-Anderson) rubber stamped the bond request for that 'little' project, but if USC asks for much-needed funds for dormitory renovations or classroom/lab upgrades, whoa Nellie!
 
Clemson was extremely fiscally responsible for 20 years until we recently started making facilities improvements a few years ago. Point of this story is that we already had the money and didn't need to raise it. Clemson had a ton of money under the mattress and we are using $0 of state money on the project.
 
The little toilet


shopping
 
Clemson was extremely fiscally responsible for 20 years until we recently started making facilities improvements a few years ago. Point of this story is that we already had the money and didn't need to raise it. Clemson had a ton of money under the mattress and we are using $0 of state money on the project.

If Clemson was 'sitting on' $61,000,000, i.e. those funds weren't otherwise tied-up in a designated trust, then how could they in good conscience continue to increase tuition costs to students who already were paying one of the highest tuition costs in the S/E? Did CU's BOT know about these surplus funds?
 
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Paul Borick, project manager for the 2003 renovation, evidently loves the "real basketball atmosphere of
Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium which happens to seat, you guessed it, 8,000. Borick, now at tiny Wake Forest, constantly speaks badly of larger revenue generating multi use facilities in Raleigh and Columbia.
.

Cameron seats 9,314. Always has and probably always will. The reduction of seats should suit that toilet just fine.
 
Clemson was extremely fiscally responsible for 20 years until we recently started making facilities improvements a few years ago. Point of this story is that we already had the money and didn't need to raise it. Clemson had a ton of money under the mattress and we are using $0 of state money on the project.
I'm pretty sure it has been funded
Its now been confirmed by Shevlin77 that Chemson had $61,000,000 hidden away under someone's mattress.
 
Where did this money come from at Clemson? They were having furloughs just five years ago and it was a major reason why Purnell left.
 
Actually the move to 8K seating might not be a bad idea for them. However spending 61 million on Littlejohn???!!! Ok .... not sure if thats wise, but whatever. I'm thinking tear it down and start over from scratch, especially if you want a smaller venue, but its their money. Let em try to polish a turd.
 
Might as well go to the nearest local high school in Central or Easley to play their games if they want an arena to look full on TV....LMAO.....
 
Radakovich did the same thing at Georgia Tech and it ended up being a great project. They reduced capacity, but made the facility state-of-the-art. GT's facility is now nicer than most in the nation, because they didn't have to cut any corners to build a monstrous building. And every seat in the house is a great one.
 
Radakovich did the same thing at Georgia Tech and it ended up being a great project. They reduced capacity, but made the facility state-of-the-art. GT's facility is now nicer than most in the nation, because they didn't have to cut any corners to build a monstrous building. And every seat in the house is a great one.
Why would a city the size of Atlanta need a smaller venue for ACC basketball? Especially after expansion with the additions of national contenders Lou
Radakovich did the same thing at Georgia Tech and it ended up being a great project. They reduced capacity, but made the facility state-of-the-art. GT's facility is now nicer than most in the nation, because they didn't have to cut any corners to build a monstrous building. And every seat in the house is a great one.

It seems like ACC Basketball in a city with the population of Atlanta would need a bigger venue than a 9100 seat Pavillion. Especially after expansion with the additions of Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Louisville.

He didn't leave their basketball program in very good shape though. They only won 3 conference games last year.
 
Actually the move to 8K seating might not be a bad idea for them. However spending 61 million on Littlejohn???!!! Ok .... not sure if thats wise, but whatever. I'm thinking tear it down and start over from scratch, especially if you want a smaller venue, but its their money. Let em try to polish a turd.
Agree with everything you said- well stated.
 
Why would a city the size of Atlanta need a smaller venue for ACC basketball? Especially after expansion with the additions of national contenders Lou


It seems like ACC Basketball in a city with the population of Atlanta would need a bigger venue than a 9100 seat Pavillion. Especially after expansion with the additions of Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Louisville.

He didn't leave their basketball program in very good shape though. They only won 3 conference games last year.

Atlanta is a football town, and in reality, America is a football country. Of the 351 Division I basketball teams, there are probably only 30 or 40 teams that really need more than an 8,000-10,000 capacity. Most BCS teams, including USC and clempson, are football schools that will support a basketball winner (and have spikes in attendance during winning years), but don't really care enough about basketball to get more than 10K in the arena on a nightly basis, year after year.

Football and basketball are not even close to being on even footing in terms of popularity, and unlike football stadiums, bigger isn't always better in basketball. Tech is a perfect example of how to handle this. They now have a premium basketball arena that can lure people to watch games even in lean years.
 
Radakovich did the same thing at Georgia Tech and it ended up being a great project. They reduced capacity, but made the facility state-of-the-art. GT's facility is now nicer than most in the nation, because they didn't have to cut any corners to build a monstrous building. And every seat in the house is a great one.
Comparing the present Littlejohn project to the McCamish project at GT is comparing apples to oranges. Comparing the previous Littlejohn refurb to GT is a better comparison. Old Alexander memorial coliseum was a round shaped arena with poor sight lines, the same reason the previous project at Littlejohn was undertaken. Georgia tech also had a large private donation to defray some of the cost(hence the name change). I have not heard any large taters donor stepping up to put down a large bag of cash to help this project along.The previous Littlejohn was needed and long overdue. I can not see how there present facility affects them in a single negative way. I think it is a nice facility. I think it is poor leadership, that two projects of that magnitude attempting to do the same thing on the same facility occurring so close together is insane!
 
I agree with what you're saying for most schools and that is definitely the best path but for Georgia Tech, it seems with a competitive team, they could do better and fill a larger arena especially since they are in the best college basketball conference. The Hawks attendance was excellent this year in Atlanta.
 
$61 million seems awfully expensive. I was just in Littlejohn for our basketball game a couple of years ago and I didn't see anything wrong with it at all. It's not the kind of place that's going to "wow" the recruits but is the new 8,500 seat version going to do it? Is it going to be like a miniature NBA arena?
 
I think many Clemson fans think that another "re-model" of Little John is a poor investment. That being said, in the "facilities help recruiting world" Clemson had to improve the basketball situation. I like that the thing is going to seat around 8K.

As many of you point out , we do not draw well to basketball games on weekdays,. Being in a small town doesn't hurt much on football weekends, but does make it tougher (even on football with Thursday games.

The location of the existing Little John is perfect, allowing for shared parking with football and baseball facilities etc. I think that it is always preferable to have the basketball arena on campus when possible. I am sure that some one did the math on whether to tear it down , and start brand new versus the cost of completely gutting it and expanding below the existing structure.

My opinion, is that the gym should be right where it is , so whateve is the most cost effective way to bring it up to "match the jones's" is what should be done.
 
I think many Clemson fans think that another "re-model" of Little John is a poor investment. That being said, in the "facilities help recruiting world" Clemson had to improve the basketball situation. I like that the thing is going to seat around 8K.

As many of you point out , we do not draw well to basketball games on weekdays,. Being in a small town doesn't hurt much on football weekends, but does make it tougher (even on football with Thursday games.

The location of the existing Little John is perfect, allowing for shared parking with football and baseball facilities etc. I think that it is always preferable to have the basketball arena on campus when possible. I am sure that some one did the math on whether to tear it down , and start brand new versus the cost of completely gutting it and expanding below the existing structure.

My opinion, is that the gym should be right where it is , so whateve is the most cost effective way to bring it up to "match the jones's" is what should be done.

Imo, it's not 'just' the 61 Million $$$ NOW, but also the 30+ Million $$$ that was previously spent on Littlejohn's remake. If this was a Carolina building getting this much overhaul $$$ in such a short period of time, Bryan White (R-Anderson), the Greenville News, and TigerNet would all be hospitalized with mental trauma.

The rationale behind the remake would not be unreasonable IF the current cost was about half what it is, but gee, a LOT of bucks will have poured into that facility by the time the contractors turn it back to the school for dedication . . .er, re-dedication.
 
I agree with you that re 30 million was the "boondoggle" , that was shortsighted waste in my opinion. As far as the state house goes , I am not going to pretend that I understand the details , but I do believe that Clemson athletic dept , with. Iptay and private donor money is funding it. And just as it is at SC the athletic departments contribute to the schools revenue not the other way around .
 
I agree with you that re 30 million was the "boondoggle" , that was shortsighted waste in my opinion. As far as the state house goes , I am not going to pretend that I understand the details , but I do believe that Clemson athletic dept , with. Iptay and private donor money is funding it. And just as it is at SC the athletic departments contribute to the schools revenue not the other way around .

Amen. When the funding comes from private sources or booster clubs, it's none of the state's business, but when funding comes from bond issues, that's when certain legislators love to throw their weight around . . . politics.
 
$61 million towards basketball! Go ahead and spend that loot, taters because you are going to fall deeper into the abyss compared to our revenue stream. LMAO! That is $61 mill not being spent on their number one sport. Love it.
 
Are the drawings of the the plans available? I would like to see what they are spending so much money on and the contractor is that won the business.....
 
I wonder why Clemson would not have considered building a new facility perhaps in the Liberty/Easley area of HWY 123 or somewhere along I-85 thereby drawing from the campus and Greenville/the upstate instead of putting $6!,000,000 of lipstick on the pig.
 
$61 million towards basketball! Go ahead and spend that loot, taters because you are going to fall deeper into the abyss compared to our revenue stream. LMAO! That is $61 mill not being spent on their number one sport. Love it.

With the money we will have coming in now Clemson will have to spend every dime they have to keep up with football. All of the other sports will suffer over the long term.
 
Littlejohn was a dump, is a dump, and will always be a dump. I've been twice in two different era's. Complete garbage fitting of Clemson nation.
 
That first pic is exactly what it looks like inside now. I still don't know why they can't spend $20 million on a really nice upgrade of the concourses and locker rooms. It's going to be 1,500 seats smaller and still won't have suites. If I was a Tater I'd be losing my mind.
 
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