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USC administration accepts blame for Darla Moore screw-up

I applaud you for being honest in your feelings that an individual’s value as a person is purely based on their net worth.

I believe it runs completely contrary to the purpose of an educational institution and feel most faculty would agree.
Dude, nobody is saying that. In eyes of the university, your mom is not as important. Is this really shocking to hear or are you being stubborn?
 
I was very optimistic when Caslen was hired that we had a Non-Political person that wasn't going to be a liberal Admin type. I still don't know those answers, but I have been told first hand by a BOT member that he is socially inept and completely out of touch relating to others. This Moore situation doesn't surprise me now knowing what i've heard. This is the type thing he would shrug off as unrelated to leading the university. I suppose as a military guy, you don't have to develop social interaction skills.
Not defending Caslen, but do you ever tell your BOT friend that s/he and the other members are doing a terrible job?
 
The political persuasion mostly trashing Caslen here would have been defending him or ignoring this entire situation if he was an appointment of their political ilk. If anyone is not of the same political leaning and trashing Caslen now, then its easy to understand why they are getting run over and ground down on their side.

Be honest, all of these political disputes on this board have to do with your political leaning. There is apparently no right or wrong in this society. There's only right and left. The same mob of posters shows up on the same sides of all these issues.

When there is poor performance, like this, its hard to take your "rush in and rip em up" strategy as anything more than your distaste for the other political group. Try being fair and honest all the time when it comes to politics, please. Other wise, as your opponents adopt your tactics, we will have all lost any credibility in any corner of our society to assess poor or good performance, even when we recognize it.
Disagree. We are talking about an institution of higher education. I don’t care about politics as it relates to appointments - until the appointments become political. Haley started this with ousting Moore, and McMaster continues it. Even the accreditation body and third party consultants the BOT brought in pointed to Caslen’s appointment as a politically motivated move. We MUST change.
 
Dude, nobody is saying that. In eyes of the university, your mom is not as important. Is this really shocking to hear or are you being stubborn?
He's being intentionally obtuse about the situation. Darla Moore has been a huge part of USC and not just because of her money. She could have put time and effort in many other things and places but she chose USC. So yeah I think it's only right that we respect and cater to one of the few people of influence that actually cares about the University, especially academically. He's just looking to argue, he for some reason has some personal gripe with Darla and because he has nothing of subsistence to add to the discussion, he's going to hijack this thread like the last thread with petty bs.
 
Darla Moore has been a huge part of USC and not just because of her money.
It honestly amazes me how easily people can invent a false premise to justify their feelings.

It was more evident in the other thread. But Darla had been attached to the university publicly since 1998 and almost no one in the other thread actually knew anything about her.
 
You're saying Darla Moore's mother is more important than my mother, but not because of wealth.

What's the difference between my mother and Darla's other than Darla's donations being much larger than my donations?
Look, to the university, Darla Moore's mom is more important because she is a big donor. All moms are important. Is this complicated?
 
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Ah yes, when someone tells you that you can't think the way you do. Another stellar debate tactic. This is embarrassing folks. And the worst part is that it is a perfect example of what I am talking about. If A is true, then you cannot be allowed to believe that x is true.
Thanks for being rational and objective. I simply tried to point our that, yes, both political camps place political leaning at the fore of any discussion ahead of right and wrong. They have code worded it into a "both sides" debate just as the right has a tendency to make everything about wokism and virtue signaling.

You have made some good points, and you will be destroyed because of your neutral and observational position. But you've got company.
 
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Thanks for being rational and objective. I simply tried to point our that, yes, both political camps place political leaning at the fore of any discussion ahead of right and wrong. They have code worded it into a "both sides" debate just as the right has a tendency to make everything about wokism and virtue signaling.

You have made some good points, and you will be destroyed because of your neutral and observational position. But you've got company.
Where I am on this is yes I can accept the possibility that Ms. Moore may ( note “may”— I have no idea) be difficult but what is in the best interest of University I cherish ? To me it is in the best interest of the University to do what is necessary to keep her happy. Some may call this coddling but ok. It’s like difficult overbearing customers we have- I may not particularly like them on a personal level but I’m going to do whatever I can within reason to keep them happy because of the value and importance they bring to my company. To do otherwise would be detrimental—I see this the same way
 
Remember when Moore referred to her donation as "pissing $25 Million dollars down a rathole?" Kinda funny, but not real helpful at the same time.

Darla Moore challenges S.C.​

  • Brendan Kearney
  • Nov 16, 2012 Updated Nov 2, 2016


Darla Moore challenges S.C.

Financier Darla Moore speaks at Trident Technical College in North Charleston on Friday November 16, 2012. Photo by Mic Smith/Trident Tech



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There was a lot of happy talk in the Trident Technical College ballroom Friday afternoon as Charleston’s tourism and business leadership gathered to celebrate the city’s recent recognition, by the readers of Conde Nast Traveler magazine, as the top tourist destination in the world.
“How cool is it to be #1?” said Helen Hill, executive director of the Charleston Area Convention and Visitors Bureau.
True to the event’s title, “Retaining and Leveraging #1,” the congratulations were followed by calls for continued improvement in order to remain the best.

It was largely a pep rally — until Darla Moore, the no-nonsense financier and philanthropist from Lake City, took the stage.
Moore warmed up the crowd by praising Charleston, where she has a home, and joking that lecturing Hill and Trident Tech President Mary Thornley “feels like going to Augusta National and telling them about how I think they ought to run a golf club,” she said, a reference to her recent induction, with former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as the first female members of the infamously exclusive club.
But then Moore recalled how, after giving $25 million to the University of South Carolina to establish the business school that now bears her name, she took a hard look at her home state’s vital statistics and was “taken aback.”
“Not only were our educational foundations not strong enough to give you the number of world-class students from South Carolina that you wanted to have attend the Darla Moore School of Business, but when they graduated the state’s economy would not be strong enough to offer the graduates good job opportunities,” she said.
“And as I told my colleagues at the time, yeah, I felt like I’d pretty much pissed $25 million down a rathole,” she said.
After a pause, during which Moore halfheartedly excused herself and the audience laughed heartily, Moore continued her frank appraisal of the Palmetto State.
“But even more disturbing than that, at the same time I was reviewing these not-so-hot measurements of our economic and educational foundations, the media in the state was reporting how great South Carolina was doing,” she said.
“According to the South Carolina Department of Commerce at the time we had recruited hundreds of millions in foreign capital which ... would lead to the creation of thousands of new jobs. Boy, was that a dichotomy. On one hand the politicians were saying we were doing great, and on the other hand the real numbers were telling another story.”
Moore, who made her own money as a banker before marrying Richard Rainwater and increasing his already considerable family wealth, wasn’t done.
She said that during a visit to the BMW manufacturing complex in Spartanburg, an executive there told her the luxury auto maker “destroyed the first 800 cars they made in South Carolina.”


“Weren’t up to quality,” Moore explained. “Can you imagine the cost of that?”
She told these stories to make a broader point. Just like BMW, if the Charleston hospitality industry is going to maintain or increase its level of quality and renown, it needs a skilled workforce. She seemed to be talking about the entire state.
“Just being the cheapest will not sustain you,” she said. There must be workforce development and innovation. “This is what’s called value added.”
And Moore said the people in the room would have to lead the effort, “not some trade association in Columbia or the government.” She urged businesses to collaborate with each other and with public institutions, such as Trident Tech.
“Take control of your destiny,” she said.
To that end, Dick Elliott, founder and president of Maverick Southern Kitchen, announced Friday that his restaurant group would match any donations to Trident Tech from his peers up to $100,000.
The goal for the 2012 capital campaign, which closes next month, is $3.5 million. Thornley, the college’s president, said $3.25 million already has been raised, and all indications are that Trident will eclipse its goal.
Moore put on her fur vest and left the event before it was over, explaining to a reporter that her “pissed” comment referred to the state, not USC, and that she stands by it.
But she didn’t leave before making a promise to Anita Zucker, the Charleston businesswoman and philanthropist who is leading the college’s capital campaign.
“She whispered to me, ’I’m going to be giving you, Anita, $100,000 for Trident Technical College,” Zucker announced.
As the luncheon guests filtered out, Thornley said she had, in fact, heard Moore use the “pissed” line before, at a conference in Atlanta. On the other hand, she had just heard about Moore’s $100,000 for the first time.
“It’s just awesome,” she said. “I didn’t know a thing about that.”
 
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Caslen is a political appointment and a political animal. The politics at USC were horribly convoluted before Caslen. At least the previous presidents attempted to keep the politics out.
His appointment brought even more politics AND from the most incompetent hacks in state government. Some of them even said, “Hire Caslen and stick it to the libs.”
My hunch is Caslen will survive and the University will be worse off for it.
The politics at USC has been hurting USC since at least the mid 1970's when I graduated. We need to go after the best in each field of leadership. Caslen is beginning to prove himself not capable. Our BOT is a joke. Tanner has been snookered in contract negotiation after contract negotiation.

We need a good & solid President. I would say clone Dr. Palms or Dr. Pastides.
Our AD needs to be a pro like McGee or Hyman. Tanner comes across as a "good ole boy". USC athletics needs a real pro leading it. We don't need to be a training ground. Excellent AD make excellent hires and run totally accountable organizations. We badly need that.
 
The politics at USC has been hurting USC since at least the mid 1970's when I graduated. We need to go after the best in each field of leadership. Caslen is beginning to prove himself not capable. Our BOT is a joke. Tanner has been snookered in contract negotiation after contract negotiation.

We need a good & solid President. I would say clone Dr. Palms or Dr. Pastides.
Our AD needs to be a pro like McGee or Hyman. Tanner comes across as a "good ole boy". USC athletics needs a real pro leading it. We don't need to be a training ground. Excellent AD make excellent hires and run totally accountable organizations. We badly need that.
Selection is such an interesting issue. Many of the efforts to make it objective, fair, affirmative, have been clouded by power and politics. That has driven the process to an even less "qualification based" approach. After 25 years in the business, I'm amused by all these folks trashing hiring processes like Caslen. They and their political activism created the exact environment they disingenuously decry, it's just on another side of the political spectrum, which in reaction, goes deeper into dysfunction to protect it's interests. Sort of like all these posts in this thread, it's just the same thing over and over...from "both sides."

All of your points are correct. Sadly, that train has left the station, and here at USC, power, and political struggle, dooms us to.....well....a familiar friend......mediocrity.
 
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The politics at USC has been hurting USC since at least the mid 1970's when I graduated. We need to go after the best in each field of leadership. Caslen is beginning to prove himself not capable. Our BOT is a joke. Tanner has been snookered in contract negotiation after contract negotiation.

We need a good & solid President. I would say clone Dr. Palms or Dr. Pastides.
Our AD needs to be a pro like McGee or Hyman. Tanner comes across as a "good ole boy". USC athletics needs a real pro leading it. We don't need to be a training ground. Excellent AD make excellent hires and run totally accountable organizations. We badly need that.
I think we need someone like the prior president Michael Adams at UGA. That guy pissed off a lot of ppl, but under his leadership UGA shot way past us back in the late 90s and 2000s. Palms and Pastides were popular because they liked sports. But neither did anything to improve our academic stature. They left us as they found us.
 
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I donated 1 million to the University. Nobody reached out about my father. I guess 1 million isn't enough to be acknowledged.
 
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The politics at USC has been hurting USC since at least the mid 1970's when I graduated. We need to go after the best in each field of leadership. Caslen is beginning to prove himself not capable. Our BOT is a joke. Tanner has been snookered in contract negotiation after contract negotiation.

We need a good & solid President. I would say clone Dr. Palms or Dr. Pastides.
Our AD needs to be a pro like McGee or Hyman. Tanner comes across as a "good ole boy". USC athletics needs a real pro leading it. We don't need to be a training ground. Excellent AD make excellent hires and run totally accountable organizations. We badly need that.
Exactly. It's not partisan politics wrecking the university - it's politics generally. We need professionals running the school. Caslen was the superintendent of West Point, a turn key operation fully funded by Congress. It's an entirely different job. His only other offer was DeVry. Now we know why.
 
I donated 1 million to the University. Nobody reached out about my father. I guess 1 million isn't enough to be acknowledged.
That’s incredible! I don’t know or care whether Darla is a diva. You just don’t eff up like that if you are a legit organization that has its shit together. The apologists around here that are attacking her are the exact reason why we rank so far below UNC, UGA, Clemp and many others. Does our school have any self awareness at all?
 
Goodness, the state of SC seriously needs some real news, lol. This is such small potatoes.
 
Look, to the university, Darla Moore's mom is more important because she is a big donor. All moms are important. Is this complicated?
If this is how you feel, why were you disagreeing when I said earlier that you guys feel that wealth determines the value of a person?

You're literally just saying her mom is more important than mine because Darla is richer than I am.
 
Exactly. It's not partisan politics wrecking the university - it's politics generally. We need professionals running the school. Caslen was the superintendent of West Point, a turn key operation fully funded by Congress. It's an entirely different job. His only other offer was DeVry. Now we know why.
Yes. I couldn't think of a more unnatural fit. The military teaches a lot of skills, but running a university is nothing like the structure and chain of command in that environment.
 
I think we need someone like the prior president Michael Adams at UGA. That guy pissed off a lot of ppl, but under his leadership UGA shot way past us back in the late 90s and 2000s. Palms and Pastides were popular because they liked sports. But neither did anything to improve our academic stature. They left us as they found us.
It always blows my mind at how much love Pastides gets on here, but I'm assuming like you said it's mostly sports related.
 
If this is how you feel, why were you disagreeing when I said earlier that you guys feel that wealth determines the value of a person?

You're literally just saying her mom is more important than mine because Darla is richer than I am.
Because I didn't realize how obtuse you were. The discussion is obviously related to the priorities of the university. Are you just bored??
 
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Because I didn't realize how obtuse you were. The discussion is obviously related to the priorities of the university. Are you just bored??
Imagine calling others obtuse when you're the one refusing to argue in good faith.

But yes I understand why you were refusing to own your argument. It's not a good look to argue that someone's value is purely dependent on their wealth. I just want you to admit it's what you're arguing.
 
Ah yes, when someone tells you that you can't think the way you do. Another stellar debate tactic. This is embarrassing folks. And the worst part is that it is a perfect example of what I am talking about. If A is true, then you cannot be allowed to believe that x is true.

Huh? Every single topic just doesnt have a "both sides". Sometimes one side is right and one is wrong. In this Caslen situation, I think most would agree that the appointment of President of the UofSC should be void of political pressure from the right or the left to select a candidate. At least, that is what the school's regional accreditor (SACS) said clearly in its review and criticism of the process.

So Caslen gets moved into contention and selected after significant pressure from the right side of the aisle and many folks were upset.....and yes some of those folks I am sure are people from the left side if the political aisle. So exactly how do you view both sides of this being wrong?

Especially now when we see example after example of Caslen not being prepared for this job.
 
Imagine calling others obtuse when you're the one refusing to argue in good faith.

But yes I understand why you were refusing to own your argument. It's not a good look to argue that someone's value is purely dependent on their wealth. I just want you to admit it's what you're arguing.

I will admit it. I am a USC grad and donor to athletics and academics at USC. Darla Moore is more important to the university than I am. And its not even close. Cool with me.
 
You're saying Darla Moore's mother is more important than my mother, but not because of wealth.

What's the difference between my mother and Darla's other than Darla's donations being much larger than my donations?
Imagine calling others obtuse when you're the one refusing to argue in good faith.

But yes I understand why you were refusing to own your argument. It's not a good look to argue that someone's value is purely dependent on their wealth. I just want you to admit it's what you're arguing.
This, ladies and gentlemen. Don’t be like this.
 
Huh? Every single topic just doesnt have a "both sides". Sometimes one side is right and one is wrong. In this Caslen situation, I think most would agree that the appointment of President of the UofSC should be void of political pressure from the right or the left to select a candidate. At least, that is what the school's regional accreditor (SACS) said clearly in its review and criticism of the process.

So Caslen gets moved into contention and selected after significant pressure from the right side of the aisle and many folks were upset.....and yes some of those folks I am sure are people from the left side if the political aisle. So exactly how do you view both sides of this being wrong?

Especially now when we see example after example of Caslen not being prepared for this job.
Did I argue that Caslen was a good hire? (I had high hopes, but I agree with a number of the points that have been made). But just because you can prove that blue is a color does not mean that 3 is not a number. Caslen being a bad hire does not mean that Moore was correct in this instance. The sad truth is that all of this bad stuff is true. Things are not good right now.
 
No way on God’s green Earth 🌎 did someone legitimately become a 3-star General, be appointed to lead at West Point, and show so many characteristics of a bad leader, with a hint of fearfulness. I would love to know who is truly pulling the strings besides Foghorn Leghorn.
 
I suppose the answer is to have a large enough endowment so that any individual donor won’t feel entitled or self-important.

So how do you get to a larger endowment? Well certainly one piece of that goal is to coddle the high dollar donors you already have. Darla Moore has given USC a huge amount of cash. But, she has LOTS more to give.

South Carolina's endowment is $780 million. UNC's endowment is over $5 billion. This reality makes USC's mistake that much harder to stomach.
 
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Imagine calling others obtuse when you're the one refusing to argue in good faith.

But yes I understand why you were refusing to own your argument. It's not a good look to argue that someone's value is purely dependent on their wealth. I just want you to admit it's what you're arguing.
Dude
 
I applaud you for being honest in your feelings that an individual’s value as a person is purely based on their net worth.

I believe it runs completely contrary to the purpose of an educational institution and feel most faculty would agree.

I have stated no such thing. But you seem to think that a person who walks in off the street - relatively speaking - has or should have the same value of input and relationship with an entity as someone else who has spent tens of millions of their personal wealth as well as decades of years of their personal time to furthering that entity - all voluntarily. I disagree with that, simply....
 
I have stated no such thing. But you seem to think that a person who walks in off the street - relatively speaking - has or should have the same value of input and relationship with an entity as someone else who has spent tens of millions of their personal wealth as well as decades of years of their personal time to furthering that entity - all voluntarily. I disagree with that, simply....
That’s a separate argument. This argument is about the university extending condolences.
 
So how do you get to a larger endowment? Well certainly once piece of that goal is to coddle the high dollar donors you already have. Darla Moore has given USC a huge amount of cash. But, she has LOTS more to give.

South Carolina's endowment is $780 million. UNC's endowment is over $5 billion. This reality makes USC's mistake that much harder to stomach.
No kidding.
 
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Remember when Moore referred to her donation as "pissing $25 Million dollars down a rathole?" Kinda funny, but not real helpful at the same time.

Darla Moore challenges S.C.​

  • Brendan Kearney
  • Nov 16, 2012 Updated Nov 2, 2016


Darla Moore challenges S.C.

Financier Darla Moore speaks at Trident Technical College in North Charleston on Friday November 16, 2012. Photo by Mic Smith/Trident Tech



Subscribe today for $2.29 / week
There was a lot of happy talk in the Trident Technical College ballroom Friday afternoon as Charleston’s tourism and business leadership gathered to celebrate the city’s recent recognition, by the readers of Conde Nast Traveler magazine, as the top tourist destination in the world.
“How cool is it to be #1?” said Helen Hill, executive director of the Charleston Area Convention and Visitors Bureau.
True to the event’s title, “Retaining and Leveraging #1,” the congratulations were followed by calls for continued improvement in order to remain the best.

It was largely a pep rally — until Darla Moore, the no-nonsense financier and philanthropist from Lake City, took the stage.
Moore warmed up the crowd by praising Charleston, where she has a home, and joking that lecturing Hill and Trident Tech President Mary Thornley “feels like going to Augusta National and telling them about how I think they ought to run a golf club,” she said, a reference to her recent induction, with former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as the first female members of the infamously exclusive club.
But then Moore recalled how, after giving $25 million to the University of South Carolina to establish the business school that now bears her name, she took a hard look at her home state’s vital statistics and was “taken aback.”
“Not only were our educational foundations not strong enough to give you the number of world-class students from South Carolina that you wanted to have attend the Darla Moore School of Business, but when they graduated the state’s economy would not be strong enough to offer the graduates good job opportunities,” she said.
“And as I told my colleagues at the time, yeah, I felt like I’d pretty much pissed $25 million down a rathole,” she said.
After a pause, during which Moore halfheartedly excused herself and the audience laughed heartily, Moore continued her frank appraisal of the Palmetto State.
“But even more disturbing than that, at the same time I was reviewing these not-so-hot measurements of our economic and educational foundations, the media in the state was reporting how great South Carolina was doing,” she said.
“According to the South Carolina Department of Commerce at the time we had recruited hundreds of millions in foreign capital which ... would lead to the creation of thousands of new jobs. Boy, was that a dichotomy. On one hand the politicians were saying we were doing great, and on the other hand the real numbers were telling another story.”
Moore, who made her own money as a banker before marrying Richard Rainwater and increasing his already considerable family wealth, wasn’t done.
She said that during a visit to the BMW manufacturing complex in Spartanburg, an executive there told her the luxury auto maker “destroyed the first 800 cars they made in South Carolina.”


“Weren’t up to quality,” Moore explained. “Can you imagine the cost of that?”
She told these stories to make a broader point. Just like BMW, if the Charleston hospitality industry is going to maintain or increase its level of quality and renown, it needs a skilled workforce. She seemed to be talking about the entire state.
“Just being the cheapest will not sustain you,” she said. There must be workforce development and innovation. “This is what’s called value added.”
And Moore said the people in the room would have to lead the effort, “not some trade association in Columbia or the government.” She urged businesses to collaborate with each other and with public institutions, such as Trident Tech.
“Take control of your destiny,” she said.
To that end, Dick Elliott, founder and president of Maverick Southern Kitchen, announced Friday that his restaurant group would match any donations to Trident Tech from his peers up to $100,000.
The goal for the 2012 capital campaign, which closes next month, is $3.5 million. Thornley, the college’s president, said $3.25 million already has been raised, and all indications are that Trident will eclipse its goal.
Moore put on her fur vest and left the event before it was over, explaining to a reporter that her “pissed” comment referred to the state, not USC, and that she stands by it.
But she didn’t leave before making a promise to Anita Zucker, the Charleston businesswoman and philanthropist who is leading the college’s capital campaign.
“She whispered to me, ’I’m going to be giving you, Anita, $100,000 for Trident Technical College,” Zucker announced.
As the luncheon guests filtered out, Thornley said she had, in fact, heard Moore use the “pissed” line before, at a conference in Atlanta. On the other hand, she had just heard about Moore’s $100,000 for the first time.
“It’s just awesome,” she said. “I didn’t know a thing about that.”

Do you even understand what you posted?

I think you were trying to show Moore disparaging USC, but forgot to even read the article yourself. It clearly shows that her remark was NOT aimed at USC, but at the state of South Carolina itself, and how poorly prepared the state economy was for graduates of the USC business school that bears her name to find quality skilled jobs in-state that would let them put their shiny new business degrees to use.

And she wasn't wrong. This was in 2012, and it would be just as accurate if it was in 2002, 1992, 1982. And sadly, it would still have merit if it was made in 2022.

But there were a LOT of action that were initiated from the same position that Moore and other state academic institutional leaders took regarding skill-based training in-state and the development and cultivation of a skilled higher-industrial state economy to provide jobs for the trained.

The article references Trident Tech for one - my own local Horry-Georgetown Technical College initiated a program from the South Carolina Manfuacturing Certification (SCMC) program partnered with the Manufacturing Skilled Standards Council (MSSC) back in 2013 to give course certifications for Certified Production Technician (CPT) training. This was training for real factory manufacturing skills like used at BMW and Boeing plants in SC. They taught OSHA, Lean Six Sigma Yellow Belt, safety and quality control practices and measurement, manufacturing processes and production, etc.

Most of this came out of the same thought processes and concerns that Darla Moore spoke about at what was largely a self-back-patting function of the Charleston tourism and business leadership for winning some tourism award from some magazine. She wasn't there to feed her own "Diva" ego. She was there to try to crack the whip on the state moving forward with its economy into the 21st century.

Has Caslen given any speeches of this kind about the State's future?? Has Caslen given any speeches?
 
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