War on Hydroxychloroquine.

[Harvard Gamecock]

I honestly don't understand why this has become a political debate instead of leaving it to medical professionals to decide what is best for their patients.

I know I do not possess the credentials to successfully argue this point regardless of my political slant.
I prefer to do my own personal research so I have a basic understanding of an issue so I can make an informed decision, whether it be auto repair all the way to health issues and everything in between.
One thing for sure, I am not going to base my decision based on a politicians or opinion news hosts biases.

 

[Blackland]

im not a leftie on everything but your comment is a non sequitur. it’s now a “Trump cure?” Odd phrase.

if I’m am on my death bed and don’t want to die, I’d try tree bark mushroom surprise if it might help.

but that doesn’t mean my doctors or the medical community should give it to me as a credible cure. That’s the issue.

A licensed doctor can utilize any drug in any way they want to treat any disease. It does not have to be FDA approved for any particular use that they deem appropriate for the circumstance. It is called off label use and it happens all the time. Like using Botox to treat migraine headaches, this was started by some doctor trying it and it working, then other doctors hearing about it and doing the same.

The only issue is when a pharmaceutical company tells doctors how to use their drug for off label things, then the FDA gets involved. A doctor can and should try any possible drug combination that could save their patient. Be thankful that they can do this.

Commie leftist morons always think the government has all the answers, that the government can protect them, that everything should be regulated and controlled. More often than not the government bureaucracy is just a roadblock in the path of progress.

 

[Rollerdude123]

A licensed doctor can utilize any drug in any way they want to treat any disease. It does not have to be FDA approved for any particular use that they deem appropriate for the circumstance. It is called off label use and it happens all the time. Like using Botox to treat migraine headaches, this was started by some doctor trying it and it working, then other doctors hearing about it and doing the same.

The only issue is when a pharmaceutical company tells doctors how to use their drug for off label things, then the FDA gets involved. A doctor can and should try any possible drug combination that could save their patient. Be thankful that they can do this.

Commie leftist morons always think the government has all the answers, that the government can protect them, that everything should be regulated and controlled. More often than not the government bureaucracy is just a roadblock in the path of progress.

I noted the obvious irony in your post: the government, the president, has been promoting this one drug incessantly.

Plenty on the “left” have been saying “hey, I don’t need the president (government) telling my doctor what to do, I’ll listen to him/her.”

plenty of “righties” have been hearing trump and Fox News talk about it so they are promoting it all because a government official has been promoting it,

 

[JeffTweedyFan]

A licensed doctor can utilize any drug in any way they want to treat any disease. It does not have to be FDA approved for any particular use that they deem appropriate for the circumstance. It is called off label use and it happens all the time. Like using Botox to treat migraine headaches, this was started by some doctor trying it and it working, then other doctors hearing about it and doing the same.

The only issue is when a pharmaceutical company tells doctors how to use their drug for off label things, then the FDA gets involved. A doctor can and should try any possible drug combination that could save their patient. Be thankful that they can do this.

Commie leftist morons always think the government has all the answers, that the government can protect them, that everything should be regulated and controlled. More often than not the government bureaucracy is just a roadblock in the path of progress.

By listening to Trump isn't that exactly what you're doing?

 

[Rollerdude123]

I honestly don't understand why this has become a political debate instead of leaving it to medical professionals to decide what is best for their patients.

I know I do not possess the credentials to successfully argue this point regardless of my political slant.
I prefer to do my own personal research so I have a basic understanding of an issue so I can make an informed decision, whether it be auto repair all the way to health issues and everything in between.
One thing for sure, I am not going to base my decision based on a politicians or opinion news hosts biases.

You answered your own question,

it’s become a political issue because the president and Fox News has been promoting this one drug like it’s the missing link for sending humans to Saturn while the medical community it’s has been saying “hold on. We are using this when necessary but we also want much more testing on it too”

anytime any politician (president in this case) pushes anything over and over again it’s going to be political. That’s why Id prefer trump not talk about it, and have his medical people talk about it and leave it at that.

 

[MookieBlaylock9]

He has been in this position for multiple administrations over decades and is one of the foremost experts on infectious diseases in the WORLD who has been one of the only voices of reason in the Government during this entire mess... but you trust a lying whore over him? Idiotic statement.

I was being sarcastic.

I think some people actually took me seriously.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

You answered your own question,

it’s become a political issue because the president and Fox News has been promoting this one drug like it’s the missing link for sending humans to Saturn while the medical community it’s has been saying “hold on. We are using this when necessary but we also want much more testing on it too”

anytime any politician (president in this case) pushes anything over and over again it’s going to be political. That’s why Id prefer trump not talk about it, and have his medical people talk about it and leave it at that.

Apologies, I meant this as a rhetorical question. I'm fully aware as to why this has become a political issue. My point is to why some have let themselves believe this has to be political in nature and not medical. Individual critical thought can be a wonderful gift.

 

[cadcock]

There is not a single drug that does not have some known side effects. Hydroxchloroquine cardiotoxicity is extremely rare. The drug has been prescribed over 100 million times. In 2013 a medical paper was published about the 5th person to ever have cardiotoxicity after being prescribed it a 52 year old woman. The doctors now understand who is likely to have cardiac arrhythmia’s with its use and monitor them.

HCQ acts as an ionophore for zinc so it can get into the cell. Zinc is proven to slow the replication of viruses with a structure similar to COVID-19.

If the media played up extremely rare side effects of every drug, no one would use them. This is political BS plain and simple. Covid-19 has a 2-3% chance of death. The use of HCQ is near zero. Stop politicizing potentially life saving treatments because you aren’t mature enough to handle someone in the White House you don’t like.

There is a really good YouTube video by MedCram Issue 34 on HCQ if you want more scientific details without the politics.

 

[Rollerdude123]

There is not a single drug that does not have some known side effects. Hydroxchloroquine cardiotoxicity is extremely rare. The drug has been prescribed over 100 million times. In 2013 a medical paper was published about the 5th person to ever have cardiotoxicity after being prescribed it a 52 year old woman. The doctors now understand who is likely to have cardiac arrhythmia’s with its use and monitor them.

HCQ acts as an ionophore for zinc so it can get into the cell. Zinc is proven to slow the replication of viruses with a structure similar to COVID-19.

If the media played up extremely rare side effects of every drug, no one would use them. This is political BS plain and simple. Covid-19 has a 2-3% chance of death. The use of HCQ is near zero. Stop politicizing potentially life saving treatments because you aren’t mature enough to handle someone in the White House you don’t like.

There is a really good YouTube video by MedCram Issue 34 on HCQ if you want more scientific details without the politics.

I take the CDC position on it. Compassionate use, with more testing to know if it truly works.

from the CDC ...hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are under investigation in clinical trials” for use on coronavirus patients and "there are no drugs or other therapeutics approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to prevent or treat COVID-19."

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has expressed skepticism over the drug, saying, “The data are really, just, at best, suggestive.”

“There have been cases that show there may be an effect, and there are others to show there's no effect," Fauci said on CBS's "Face the Nation. "So, I think in terms of science, I don't think we could definitively say it works.

 

[BobbyFoosball]

Democrats would rather you die than have you get well from hydroxychloroquine. They would be twice as happy if you died from hydroxychloroquine.

Enemies of America. They care nothing about us or victims of the virus.

 

[mauze1]

I agree with Maxine waters.

I trust the medical experts over trump.

I guess we will see if Trump is wrong. We will never hear about the argument again if he is correct.

 

[mauze1]

Indications are it's working for some. But since something like 98+% recover anyway, more testing is needed.

No one is against using the drug if a doctor prescribes it for a patient. Given it's side effects, not everyone can take it - which is true for many drugs.

What are the side effects?

 

[Bleedgarnet33]

Trump also says it is good for prevention, anyone on here taking it? No? Oh you don't take medical advice from a president either, ok.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Any resident leftist want to explain this war on Hydroxychloroquine? Is it because two democrats OD’d on fish tank cleaner? Hit piece after hit piece on this drug. I’ve never seen anything quite this partisan, especially about something that’s potentially life saving. Almost like the elites need a new drug(more expensive) to profit off of, considering Hydroxychloroquine is very cheap.

If you’re on your death bed, own trump by refusing the number one drug for this virus.

View embedded media

https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/hydroxychloroquine-most-effective-coronavirus-treatment-poll/

The left have become the new flat earth society...

They would rather people die than try Hydroxychloroquine with a z-pack, which was recommended to Trump by other doctors who are actually treating patients vs doctors who treat rats in the lab...

As Scrooge would say and this pertain to the left... “If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”

 

[GamecockJL]

The left have become the new flat earth society...

They would rather people die than try Hydroxychloroquine with a z-pack, which was recommended to Trump by other doctors who are actually treating patients vs doctors who treat rats in the lab...

As Scrooge would say and this pertain to the left... “If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”

They’ve been rolling out the notion that Trump has stock in a company that makes Hydroxychloroquine. Therefore he’s trying to profit off of it.
But when you find the truth, he’s got a measly $500 in a company that makes generic Hydroxychloroquine.

Some of these people must have a vested interest in a very expensive vaccine.

 

[Bleedgarnet33]

You really believe Trump makes $500 investments?

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

They’ve been rolling out the notion that Trump has stock in a company that makes Hydroxychloroquine. Therefore he’s trying to profit off of it.
But when you find the truth, he’s got a measly $500 in a company that makes generic Hydroxychloroquine.

Some of these people must have a vested interest in a very expensive vaccine.

Liberals will not give Trump any credit if he didi something good with this country...

Liberals are more dangerous than a unload gun sitting inside a locked gun cabinet...

 

[MANAFOLD]

I agree with Maxine waters.

I trust the medical experts over trump.

I wouldn't put much stock in your opinion if you agree with Maxine Waters. Complete idiot, racist, hates all white people. Not qualified to hold any political office. Keeps getting reelected by slum districts.

 

[t-zonie]

Let me know the first time he ever amends a statement. He was asked many times about previous statements he made, on TV, and he denied making them. He's a pathological liar.

Don"t u wish we had a democrat running things that always tells the truth.....tax, tax, tax
tax, and more tax and never ever miss speaks!!!!

 

[jonesz21]

I noted the obvious irony in your post: the government, the president, has been promoting this one drug incessantly.

Plenty on the “left” have been saying “hey, I don’t need the president (government) telling my doctor what to do, I’ll listen to him/her.”

plenty of “righties” have been hearing trump and Fox News talk about it so they are promoting it all because a government official has been promoting it,

They are promoting it because it is one of the things that is working to combat the virus. If the Democrats don’t have an alternative that IS working then STHU

 

[Rollerdude123]

What are the side effects?

It can cause fatal electrical imbalances in the heart in some cases.

 

[Rollerdude123]

They are promoting it because it is one of the things that is working to combat the virus. If the Democrats don’t have an alternative that IS working then STHU

We don’t know if it works. That’s the point and why it needs further testing. I’ve said 30 times now I’m ok with compassionate use of the drug or really any drug.

 

[jonesz21]

We don’t know if it works. That’s the point and why it needs further testing. I’ve said 30 times now I’m ok with compassionate use of the drug or really any drug.

We know it has worked on some. Just like chemo for cancer I’m just saying it should be an option

 

[SOSUSC]

I take the CDC position on it. Compassionate use, with more testing to know if it truly works.

from the CDC ...hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are under investigation in clinical trials” for use on coronavirus patients and "there are no drugs or other therapeutics approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to prevent or treat COVID-19."

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has expressed skepticism over the drug, saying, “The data are really, just, at best, suggestive.”

“There have been cases that show there may be an effect, and there are others to show there's no effect," Fauci said on CBS's "Face the Nation. "So, I think in terms of science, I don't think we could definitively say it works.

Fauci is old school. Does not quite comprehend modeling. Any infant in statistics or economics understands that a model is as good as its assumptions and its predictions.

We don’t know if it works. That’s the point and why it needs further testing. I’ve said 30 times now I’m ok with compassionate use of the drug or really any drug.

The evidence is mounting that it works - both in trials overseas (France, Italy, China (although a later study said unsure), and in non random dosing in the US. It is the go to drug. In fact it is now called the Covid cocktail (HCL + Azithromyacin).

A big issue in the US is that a drug must undergo randomized trials (with a placebo). The problems this brings along is the need for time and the right type of patients. This takes years. It is convenient for those who oppose Trump to use this to say “it is unproven” and in this sense they are right. The TV pundits parrot this line.

Every life lost that did not get this drug and was lost because of this shortsightedness is a grievous mistake. Those who deny this (medical) must be held accountable. I know the drug can be prescribed off label and on compassionate grounds. Not all doctors want to do this because of caution and lawsuits. I know.

I suspect that China and India have this covered. The limited casualties in these countries make me move in this direction. While we kill each other because of partisan politics lives are being lost. Imagine if Trump is right and HCL actually works? What will the Left do?

I am no fan of Trump, Pelosi, or Schumer. But in a crisis like this the country needs to be united. Where is the altruism?

 

[BobbyFoosball]

Wow. Never seen anything like this. Never believed I'd see Americans dying in a pandemic while political hacks fight AGAINST the choice to take treatment that may help, just because Trump promoted it. Democrats have no room whatsoever to ever call Trump small and petty again.

Truly sad for our country. Not sure how much longer we can survive as one.

 

[Expro19]

I wouldn't put much stock in your opinion if you agree with Maxine Waters. Complete idiot, racist, hates all white people. Not qualified to hold any political office. Keeps getting reelected by slum districts.

That she's stealing from.... Crazy that people are that uneducated

 

[Rollerdude123]

We know it has worked on some. Just like chemo for cancer I’m just saying it should be an option

There are many chemotherapies. Some work for some cancers and some don’t. Rigorous testing has given us data on how to target chemo treatment for certain cancers, dosages, expected outcomes, etc.

As I’ve said 31times now, I’m all for compassionate use when there are no other options- or when a doctor wants to try it when options run thin.

 

[Rollerdude123]

Fauci is old school. Does not quite comprehend modeling. Any infant in statistics or economics understands that a model is as good as its assumptions and its predictions.

A bird told me that Dr. Fauci, a world wide respected infectious disease expert understands modeling much better than SOSUSC on Gamecock Central does.

The evidence is mounting that it works

mounting evidence that it works is not good enough to say it works because one can also find studies and doctors that throw cold water all over it.

that’s why proper testing of a large enough study is needed. As I’ve said, I’m fine with compassionate use

 

[BattleshipTexas]

I noted the obvious irony in your post: the government, the president, has been promoting this one drug incessantly.

Plenty on the “left” have been saying “hey, I don’t need the president (government) telling my doctor what to do, I’ll listen to him/her.”

plenty of “righties” have been hearing trump and Fox News talk about it so they are promoting it all because a government official has been promoting it,

That is a completely dishonest description of what is going on.

 

[BattleshipTexas]

It can cause fatal electrical imbalances in the heart in some cases.

Extremely rare. It is a drug used safely for decades by literally tens of millions of people.

 

[Rollerdude123]

That is a completely dishonest description of what is going on.

No, it was a completely honest description.

 

[Rollerdude123]

Extremely rare. It is a drug used safely for decades by literally tens of millions of people.

yet that exact situation was described by a Chicago doctor on Fox news this week that witnessed it herself earlier in the week - A doctor that said much more testing was needed and too much focus was being out on this one drug.

as I’ve repeatedly said, I’m fine with it’s use when a doctor believes there are few or no other options.
I don’t know anyone who is against that.

But to pretend it’s some type of miracle cure, as some on tv are doing, is silly.

 

[BattleshipTexas]

No, it was a completely honest description.

You use trigger words like "promoting" and "incessantly" to describe someone you are obviously biased against. Next time throw in "cronies" and you would have the trifecta.

 

[BattleshipTexas]

yet that exact situation was described by a Chicago doctor on Fox news this week that witnessed it herself earlier in the week - A doctor that said much more testing was needed and too much focus was being out on this one drug.

as I’ve repeatedly said, I’m fine with it’s use when a doctor believes there are few or no other options.
I don’t know anyone who is against that.

But to pretend it’s some type of miracle cure, as some on tv are doing, is silly.

If you actually listed to the President "promoting" the drug, you would hear him talk about the trials and studies of the drug that are ongoing, how important those are and what he is doing to make sure there is plenty of funding for them and that they are not hamstrung by redtape. You would also not hear him call it a miracle cure, but instead talk of how promising the drug is and how optimistic he is that studies will eventually show that. What is silly are the folks on MSNBC that have bashed him "incessantly" for displaying any optimism about the drug.

 

[cadcock]

The latest French study of 1061 patients taking HCQ and Z pack findings: "The HCQ-AZ combination, when started immediately after diagnosis,is a safe and efficient treatment for COVID-19, with a mortality rate of 0.5% in older patients. It avoids worsening and clears virus persistence and contagiosity in most cases."

The link to the Abstract is below:
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ABSTRACT-v-2-GB.pdf

 

[SOSUSC]

A bird told me that Dr. Fauci, a world wide respected infectious disease expert understands modeling much better than SOSUSC on Gamecock Central does.





mounting evidence that it works is not good enough to say it works because one can also find studies and doctors that throw cold water all over it.

that’s why proper testing of a large enough study is needed. As I’ve said, I’m fine with compassionate use

Don’t underestimate posters simply because they post on this board.

 

[scbirdhunter]

You use trigger words like "promoting" and "incessantly" to describe someone you are obviously biased against. Next time throw in "cronies" and you would have the trifecta.

If trigger words bother you, you would be pulling your hair out when you listen to trump. But my guess would be probably not. Something tells me you're perfectly fine with his trigger words.
When he hits the trifecta he's just getting started

 

[jonesz21]

A bird told me that Dr. Fauci, a world wide respected infectious disease expert understands modeling much better than SOSUSC on Gamecock Central does.





mounting evidence that it works is not good enough to say it works because one can also find studies and doctors that throw cold water all over it.

that’s why proper testing of a large enough study is needed. As I’ve said, I’m fine with compassionate use

Viagra has a lot of side effects that are hard to ignore and no one has an issue with it

 

[Rollerdude123]

If you actually listed to the President "promoting" the drug, you would hear him talk about the trials and studies of the drug that are ongoing, how important those are and what he is doing to make sure there is plenty of funding for them and that they are not hamstrung by redtape. You would also not hear him call it a miracle cure, but instead talk of how promising the drug is and how optimistic he is that studies will eventually show that. What is silly are the folks on MSNBC that have bashed him "incessantly" for displaying any optimism about the drug.

“She was just in horrible shape for 12 days, 14 days," Trump said. "She thought she was dead." The president said she implored her husband to obtain hydroxychloroquine, and the husband did so.

"Four hours later, she awoke and she said, I feel better," Trump recalled. "And then, shortly thereafter, she felt great."

"The way she spoke," Trump said, "it was like a miracle.”

Let's start with the story: Trump says the woman had been ill for "12 days, 14 days." According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the median length of hospitalization among survivors is 10 to 13 days.

That means the woman was at a point in the disease where most people — even people sick enough to be hospitalized — get better. In other words, the woman Trump described might have gotten better without any drug. It's impossible to say without controlled clinical trials.

 

[Rollerdude123]

The latest French study of 1061 patients taking HCQ and Z pack findings: "The HCQ-AZ combination, when started immediately after diagnosis,is a safe and efficient treatment for COVID-19, with a mortality rate of 0.5% in older patients. It avoids worsening and clears virus persistence and contagiosity in most cases."

The link to the Abstract is below:
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ABSTRACT-v-2-GB.pdf

This article describes why that study was so flawed https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/hydroxychloroquine-trump-coronavirus-drug

here are the specific reasons why that study was flawed and misreported on Fox News and talk radio


The treatment group and the control group were drawn from separate populations: the treatment group were all patients at the institution where the researchers worked, the Méditerranée Infection University Hospital Institute in Marseille, while the control patients came from other hospitals in the south of France.

The treatment group (mean age 51.2) was significantly older than the control group (mean age 37.3), introducing another variable that could undermine the meaning of the results. The study was “open label”, meaning the physicians and patients knew which treatment they were receiving. The French researchers also treated some but not all of the treatment group patients with azithromycin, a common antibiotic, another complicating factor that was not randomized.

But even more important than these shortcomings in the design of the study is how the researchers chose to measure and report their results. Forty-two patients were initially included in the study. Three were transferred to the intensive care unit; one died, one left the hospital, and one stopped taking the treatment due to nausea. The other 36 eventually recovered, and those who received the drug cleared the virus from the system faster than those who did not.

If you had only heard about this study from the Fox News assertion of a “100% cure rate”, you might assume that the four patients with poor clinical outcomes (the three ICU visits and one death) had been unlucky enough to be in the group that did not receive the “cure”.

And yet, those four patients, as well as the patient with nausea and the one who left the hospital early, were all part of the treatment group. They were excluded from the topline results of the study because of the way that the researchers chose to measure and report the results: strictly based on the measurable presence of viruses in nasal swabs taken each day of the study. Since the patients were in the ICU or dead, their samples could not be taken and they were left out of the final analysis. Based on the nasal swabs of just the 36 patients who completed the study, those who received the drug cleared the virus from their systems faster than those who did not.

This is how an experiment in which 15% of the treatment group and 0% of the control had poor clinical outcomes could end up being reported as showing a “100% cure rate”.