When is Martin going to get the Muschamp treatment on here ?
- Thread starter jeff2001
- Start date
Frank is still drawing interest off the Final Four card.
I'm starting to get frustrated with him. There always seems to be a excuse.
Well one had the greatest season in gamecock basketball history, has been competitive each year in the SEC and the other average 3 wins in two season,
Wouldn’t call them identical
Wouldn’t call them identical
They’re quite dissimilar. One is a very good recruiter, not good at developing talent, and an average (being generous) game day coach. The other is an average (being generous) recruiter, very good at developing talent, and a good game day coach.
Mizzou is a bad matchup for us. We have nothing that can slow down Tilmon on either side of the court. If they wanted, they could have fed him all night and won by 20.
edit: it’s worth noting that as corrupt as football recruiting is, basketball recruiting is 5x more corrupt, which really stacks the deck against a coach like FM who clearly has integrity. Not suggesting he change his ways in this regard. I respect that he doesn’t play the dirty recruiting game.
Mizzou is a bad matchup for us. We have nothing that can slow down Tilmon on either side of the court. If they wanted, they could have fed him all night and won by 20.
edit: it’s worth noting that as corrupt as football recruiting is, basketball recruiting is 5x more corrupt, which really stacks the deck against a coach like FM who clearly has integrity. Not suggesting he change his ways in this regard. I respect that he doesn’t play the dirty recruiting game.
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If basketball had the same metric as football to qualify for a post season Frank would 6-3 by your logic.
Dang, I just caught the tail end of it. I switched to the Florida vs. McVols game. 45 seconds later I remembered that basketball is boring.
I have seen the fair amount of frustration about the lack of bring able to get to the tournament voiced on here the last couple of years. And there will be little outcry this year as they will have the Covid excuse they can fall back on. And I think folks are getting tired of complaining. As evidenced by Frank's lack of success, except for a totally unexpected two week hot streak, it is almost as if the folks now seem to be resigned to the fact that USC is not serious about winning. And if you fire Frank, that let's Ray loose to make another underwhelming hire. So it probably doesn't matter.
The only time Frank Martins teams really resembled Will Muschamps were in year one but you can thank Darrin Horn for that.....Horn and Muschamp have a lot in common.
Totally... He took us to the best season in the history of our basketball program. He averages around 20 wins. He will keep his job if he does that.
Is it frustrating we haven’t made the dance other than that one year? Hell YEAH it is!
Do some of his coaching methods seem stubborn and out dated? Yes!
Do I wish they would teach some OFFENSE to these kids? Hell YEAH!! It seems all we practice is D!!
I am very frustrated... But- he has a talented team he has built, this season is a total pass because of so many issues and forfeited/delayed games.. It just feels like we are snake bit. We just lost back to back games to ranked teams without 2 of our big men playing and bigs were the weakspot of this team without any injuries/covid/WHATEVER is keeping these guys out (at this point, who knows?)... This is expected performance in light of the circumstances. Winning either of our last two games would have been borderline miraculous. Let’s get back to full strength, play some more games and see where we stand. The selection committee has a tough job this year, who knows what they kay give special allowances for. 🤷♂️
Also- he is a no BS kind of guy. I do like that about him....
Nobody wants excuses, he is right. What we want is IMPROVEMENT. Be an IMPROVEMENT guy Frank... Please?
Nobody wants excuses, he is right. What we want is IMPROVEMENT. Be an IMPROVEMENT guy Frank... Please?
Aside from the differences mentioned above, another important difference is that Frank has a certain presence about him and delivers a cogent and consistent message. He comes off as a strong leader of young men, despite the mediocre results on the court. Muschamp doesn't have that presence or come off as a terribly effective leader. Muschamp thinks he can sell ice to Eskimos, but has no message or clear identity.
Having said that, results matter and it wouldn't bother me if we cut him loose.
Having said that, results matter and it wouldn't bother me if we cut him loose.
As if “all gas no breaks” was not a clear message? (It turns out his IDENTITY was the OPPOSITE of that message obviously, which was the problem)
FT shooting is and has been inexcusably bad for too long!!! Can’t you fix that? Like... How do we find so many D1 ballers who CAN’T HIT FREES!?!?
The problem is not FM. The problem is RT. He hangs on to the coaches until they bankrupt the program.
We won't replace Frank Martin this year. Not gonna happen. But I've heard stories that his overall health is not good. He may step down this year or next year.
Comparing Champ to Frank is laughable. That being said if he doesn't get to the tourney this year, making a move needs to be considered.
I think he gets a pass this year because of COVID. This year in college basketball is practically unwatchable.
Martin may deserve to go. But you at least have to say he took a historically mediocre program and accomplished something that had never been done before. Muschamp took an above average program 2 years removed from winning 33 games in 3 years, and drove that program straight into the ground, to the point that if it’s not on life support, it’s at least on a ventilator. So yeah, Martin may need to go, but I’ll always hold him in higher regard than Muschamp.
Martin has been consistently mediocre. That's not good. It's not bad either. I'm ok with parting ways with him, but I don't hate him for not being great every year. I think when we move on it will be to hopefully get a coach that can sustain a higher level of success, surely. But he has been winning the equivalent of 6-8 games in football a season. That's not unacceptable, it's just time to try to go better. If Muschamp had managed that he'd probably still be the coach. That 4 win season and the embarrassing way we lost this year did him in. Frank has always had a high floor and a fairly low ceiling, barring that one anomaly when we caught fire at the exact right moment to be a semi finalist.
I kind of feel sorry for Frank and his players. This is a tournament team on paper and only playing 7 games compared to the 12 or 14 games like most of the other teams just sucks. Playing 1 or 2 games then sitting out for 10 days doesn't help the cohesiveness of a team. Hopefully there will be no more delays and can get these act together. I still have faith in this team going forward
Anyone know his contract status? I'm sure this University can't handle another buyout.
Winning in college basketball is going to the dance. Everything else, above 500 or not, is simply not acceptable, particularly over such a long tenure. If it is, you will never compete at a high level.
Frank's final four simply reflects the primary aggravation of gamecock sports......that we cannot sustain success in men's sports. Before Tanner changed his tune, he was loudly touting a "stay the course" approach with Muscbamp. Just "believe." He has been hands off on men's basketball. When the AD takes that approach, it sends a signal patience is the only key to sustaining success here. Muschamp, being Muschamp, managed to get fired. Horn managed to get fired. Otherwise, if you develop a relationship with fans and build support for your brand, you get time.
But Martin is reaching the end of his time without building the program with a simple goal...the dance. In his case, reading this thread, his time is about done.
Frank's final four simply reflects the primary aggravation of gamecock sports......that we cannot sustain success in men's sports. Before Tanner changed his tune, he was loudly touting a "stay the course" approach with Muscbamp. Just "believe." He has been hands off on men's basketball. When the AD takes that approach, it sends a signal patience is the only key to sustaining success here. Muschamp, being Muschamp, managed to get fired. Horn managed to get fired. Otherwise, if you develop a relationship with fans and build support for your brand, you get time.
But Martin is reaching the end of his time without building the program with a simple goal...the dance. In his case, reading this thread, his time is about done.
Count me in on giving the conference a 10 team or so lock in basketball like the do in football.
I like Frank but being at least the 65th best team in 8 out of the 9 years is unacceptable.
Actually you have to be a top 48 team, the 13-16 seeds are usually reserved for the smaller schools and even being a top 48 team doesn't guarantee you get in, especially with anyone winning the conference tournament automatically gets a bid and schools like USC in 2016 was robbed when it came to the selections. That said, if we're continuing with this false equivalency with football, then a top 48 or 65 in basketball would be the equivalent to a top 18 or top 24 in football in terms of percentage relative to the amount of division 1 programs.
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