With regards to all these articles proclaiming Holbrook is safe:

[CapHillCock]

Too many media boys covering Gamecock baseball, the author of the since deleted linked article from a rival website included, have become too buddy buddy with the coaches and that now includes the administration since Tanner is there- they had such fun times bonding with them during the wild rides we had in Omaha- and now instead of asking the hard questions they write articles with quotes thrown in from so-called experts lecturing us fans on what is best.
First grade math- or whatever elementary school grade that teaches line graph charts- is all you need to interpret the steep downward trend that has clearly occurred over the last 3 years in a once proud program.
I'm afraid odds are just as high if not higher that the trend keeps going father down than going up.
if so then Holbrook would have pulled a Darrin Horn on our baseball program while administrators and reporters he is buddy buddy with watched.

 

[sclawman77]

Yep, the same ones here made excuses for Chad last year when we lost a home regional. Now they're making excuses for him when we don't make the NCAA tournament. Wonder if we finish the season with a losing record next year what the excuses will be? Let me guess-he needs more time to fix what he messed up. The guy sounds lost and defeated during every post-game presser. I think the players feed off of that.

 

[searooster]

Too many media boys covering Gamecock baseball, the author of the since deleted linked article from a rival website included, have become too buddy buddy with the coaches and that now includes the administration since Tanner is there- they had such fun times bonding with them during the wild rides we had in Omaha- and now instead of asking the hard questions they write articles with quotes thrown in from so-called experts lecturing us fans on what is best.
First grade math- or whatever elementary school grade that teaches line graph charts- is all you need to interpret the steep downward trend that has clearly occurred over the last 3 years in a once proud program.
I'm afraid odds are just as high if not higher that the trend keeps going father down than going up.
if so then Holbrook would have pulled a Darrin Horn on our baseball program while administrators and reporters he is buddy buddy with watched.

Or you could behave like an adult and admit you were wrong.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

I expect Holbrook asked Tanner for a public statement of support. I expect he's been getting some hard questions from recruits.

 

[Mamie Baldwin]

EDIT: Cock Hudson blacklisted.

 

[sclawman77]

Chad gets 3 more years. We honor contracts. Anyway, his career winning percentage is above .600.

We'll see what that percentage is a year from now. And if we really honor contracts he'll get 4 more years as it runs through 2019. Geez.

 

[tailgatecock]

Chad gets 3 more years. We honor contracts. Anyway, his career winning percentage is above .600.

We honor contracts? Really?

 

[jeff2001]

How many ways can yall say yall want him gone? Please start an official thread.

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

Too many media boys covering Gamecock baseball, the author of the since deleted linked article from a rival website included, have become too buddy buddy with the coaches and that now includes the administration since Tanner is there- they had such fun times bonding with them during the wild rides we had in Omaha- and now instead of asking the hard questions they write articles with quotes thrown in from so-called experts lecturing us fans on what is best.
First grade math- or whatever elementary school grade that teaches line graph charts- is all you need to interpret the steep downward trend that has clearly occurred over the last 3 years in a once proud program.
I'm afraid odds are just as high if not higher that the trend keeps going father down than going up.
if so then Holbrook would have pulled a Darrin Horn on our baseball program while administrators and reporters he is buddy buddy with watched.

Or maybe it's possible that these "media boys" are simply reporting what they're being told and you're butthurt because they don't lunatic fringe article that agree with you.

You sound like you miss MoRon already.

You might as well get over it.. Chad isn't going anywhere.

 

[searooster]

We honor contracts? Really?

According to Ray Tanner, "Yes". This is called integrity, a concept clearly foreign to many on this board.

 

[gamecock_07]

We honor contracts? Really?

that's all fine and dandy but we better start putting deliverables in that contract too then. otherwise you're just giving away money to an undeserving coach.

 

[superflyby]

I would think he is safe this year. Tanner can't make him a lame duck coach and he can't really justify letting him go. Right now it's just a no win situation that everyone is going to have to ride out. I hope one day we are talking about a new coach and how we hope he lives up to Holbrook's run. That may or may not happen but it very well could. If he slides next year I think Tanner would be in a much better position to do something....as for now it would be considered an expensive knee jerk reaction. Next year it could start effecting the bottom line.

 

[gamecock_07]

I would think he is safe this year. Tanner can't make him a lame duck coach and he can't really justify letting him go. Right now it's just a no win situation that everyone is going to have to ride out. I hope one day we are talking about a new coach and how we hope he lives up to Holbrook's run. That may or may not happen but it very well could. If he slides next year I think Tanner would be in a much better position to do something....as for now it would be considered an expensive knee jerk reaction. Next year it could start effecting the bottom line.

I don't know how much money we stand to lose getting rid of or demoting him this year but I have a hard time calling this a knee jerk reaction. Last year, with all the injuries, maybe, but as has been pointed out, this team has been on the decline since holbrook took over and this is the worst team we've had in decades.

Let's not also overlook the coaching fires and hires that are going to take place in the upstate. If we have our eye on someone we need to pull the trigger.

 

[SilatGamecock]

Has Tanner had to make a major hire yet. Was Frank his ?. I hated when Tanner moved up, but he seems to be such a good guy I was happy for him. Holbrook seems to be missing something. He strikes me was the great coordinator that is not a fit for the HC position. I hope I am wrong.

 

[SilatGamecock]

In business, seems the public vote of confidence is the last step before an Executive is let go.

 

[superflyby]

I don't know how much money we stand to lose getting rid of or demoting him this year but I have a hard time calling this a knee jerk reaction. Last year, with all the injuries, maybe, but as has been pointed out, this team has been on the decline since holbrook took over and this is the worst team we've had in decades.

Let's not also overlook the coaching fires and hires that are going to take place in the upstate. If we have our eye on someone we need to pull the trigger.

I agree that the fan base would not view it as a knee jerk reaction but the fans want to fire a coach after each loss no matter what sport it is. The truth of the matter is most programs would take what we consider Holbrooks failures to this point...a super and a host for a regional. To us it was a radical downward turn when in reality it wasn't an all end event. I think a lot of programs would love to have what we deem failures so we are not looking at it realistic, but in our own expectations. They are two different things. We are going through a rough time from what WE are used to. The media and others have a different view.

 

[raycock2001]

I expect Holbrook asked Tanner for a public statement of support. I expect he's been getting some hard questions from recruits.

Thankfully, our recruits have a lot more baseball smarts than a lot of our fans and see this for what it is...an off year.
Sure doesn't sound like this season is hurting recruiting. Have seen where next year's class is like #6 in the country and the class after is a top 5 class so far.

 

[Bongsummers]

According to Ray Tanner, "Yes". This is called integrity, a concept clearly foreign to many on this board.

Right, because USC has never fired somebody on contract.

Give me a break.

 

[Bongsummers]

Thankfully, our recruits have a lot more baseball smarts than a lot of our fans and see this for what it is...an off year.
Sure doesn't sound like this season is hurting recruiting. Have seen where next year's class is like #6 in the country and the class after is a top 5 class so far.

Hey Ray, did you say the same things about fans calling for changes on the defensive staff (Ward) and for Horn to get the hammer? I'd really like to know if you were one of the folks calling critics of Ward idiots right up until Spurrier made the change. Similarly, there are a slew of people on FGF that called critics of Horn idiots, but now say Martin was handicapped by what Horn left behind. You one of those folks?

 

[Cock_Donor]

According to Ray Tanner, "Yes". This is called integrity, a concept clearly foreign to many on this board.

I want you to remember this when your cable company starts jerking you around. Just take a deep breath and remember those shots to the nuts are symbolic reminders of your integrity to honor that contract.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

I haven't read all of the replies above but the sad part about the Holbrook situation is that he is SAFE at least through next year.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Even though this will be the first in 16 years that we did not make the NCAAs, Chad's job should be safe. Now there should be changes made, including staff changes. If Chad not willing to make those changes and changes on what he does as a coach, that will a reason to fire him, just cannot fire over the failure of the season.

 

[searooster]

Right, because USC has never fired somebody on contract.

Give me a break.

There's a difference between firing someone who violates University policy (Jim Carlen) vs. someone who has a disappointing season on the field. If you need to google "integrity", it will help clear up your disconnect.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

Even though this will be the first in 16 years that we did not make the NCAAs, Chad's job should be safe. Now there should be changes made, including staff changes. If Chad not willing to make those changes and changes on what he does as a coach, that will a reason to fire him, just cannot fire over the failure of the season.

A reasonable, well thought out answer. I think folks need to also realize that all these great post season records that we've run up in the 2000s make us the EXCEPTION to the rule, not the rule of how college baseball works.

 

[gamecock_07]

There's a difference between firing someone who violates University policy (Jim Carlen) vs. someone who has a disappointing season on the field. If you need to google "integrity", it will help clear up your disconnect.

these 'integrity' posts are ridiculous and single minded. the man is getting paid to coach one of the best programs in the country. top flight prospects passed up a ton of money to come play here for the university. if we reward them with placing them in the hands of a coach who is not helping further their career, and can't maintain or improve their draft status moving forward, where is the integrity in that? you'd rather honor a single contract to a professional that jeopardizes the future of amateur athletes that came here under false pretenses. (ie a coach that could help them improve)

 

[Bongsummers]

There's a difference between firing someone who violates University policy (Jim Carlen) vs. someone who has a disappointing season on the field. If you need to google "integrity", it will help clear up your disconnect.

Um, partner, the University of South Carolina has fired plenty of people for having disappointing seasons that were still under contract. Brad Scott. Horn. We pushed Dave Odom out. How about Fig? Sparky was still under contract I'm sure. I mean, did you miss the past few decades of USC sports?

On a side note, Carlen was the guy causing waves with the Athletic Department and Board because he said the president of the college was stealing from the department. Turns out he was right.

 

[rogue cock]

[QUOTE="Bongsummers, post: 416457, member: 9006"
On a side note, Carlen was the guy causing waves with the Athletic Department and Board because he said the president of the college was stealing from the department. Turns out he was right.[/QUOTE]
Definitely would never support Holderman over Carlen...ever.

 

[sclawman77]

Even though this will be the first in 16 years that we did not make the NCAAs, Chad's job should be safe. Now there should be changes made, including staff changes. If Chad not willing to make those changes and changes on what he does as a coach, that will a reason to fire him, just cannot fire over the failure of the season.

I would agree with you about the staff changes but who goes? The staff are all Tanner hires/players. I don't see them going anywhere.

 

[searooster]

Um, partner, the University of South Carolina has fired plenty of people for having disappointing seasons that were still under contract. Brad Scott. Horn. We pushed Dave Odom out. How about Fig? Sparky was still under contract I'm sure. I mean, did you miss the past few decades of USC sports?

On a side note, Carlen was the guy causing waves with the Athletic Department and Board because he said the president of the college was stealing from the department. Turns out he was right.

Wrong again, Bongsummers. None of the coaches you mentioned were fired for a single bad season, as you and others suggest CH should be. Scott, Horn, Woods, and Odom had multiple losing or underperforming seasons that lead to their firing or resignation. And your story about Carlen falls far short from the complete conditions under which he left. Much more complicated than what you've implied, but I will not discuss that on social media. Don't come at me until you have your facts straight. My point regarding integrity is, if you terminate a contract without just cause, you do so with a loss of integrity, and good luck attracting quality candidates for a replacement. Not to mention the financial impacts of a multiyear contract buyout.

 

[sclawman77]

While I realize Holbrook is returning next year as coach, this story coming from a fan site is not an official press release from the university either. There are no quotes from any university employees. Holbrook will not be here for the long haul if the current trend continues.

 

[gamecock_07]

Wrong again, Bongsummers. None of the coaches you mentioned were fired for a single bad season, as you and others suggest CH should be. Scott, Horn, Woods, and Odom had multiple losing or underperforming seasons that lead to their firing or resignation. And your story about Carlen falls far short from the complete conditions under which he left. Much more complicated than what you've implied, but I will not discuss that on social media. Don't come at me until you have your facts straight. My point regarding integrity is, if you terminate a contract without just cause, you do so with a loss of integrity, and good luck attracting quality candidates for a replacement. Not to mention the financial impacts of a multiyear contract buyout.

none of those coaches started with a top 5 program. we were at a point where a super regional was an average year, losing in a regional was below average and not even appearing in the post season is unheard of.

last season was 'bad' but this season is terrible. I'd rather not be saying 'man, we kept holbrook too long and he destroyed our program' like we do with these other coaches you mentioned.

and, good luck attracting quality replacements? this is our 3rd coach in 30 year, we fired one bad one. We're south carolina, no one we want is going to give two thoughts about us letting holbrook go. we don't accept mediocrity and that's our standard. we'll have a line out the door of coaching replacements.

 

[searooster]

e

none of those coaches started with a top 5 program. we were at a point where a super regional was an average year, losing in a regional was below average and not even appearing in the post season is unheard of.

last season was 'bad' but this season is terrible. I'd rather not be saying 'man, we kept holbrook too long and he destroyed our program' like we do with these other coaches you mentioned.

and, good luck attracting quality replacements? this is our 3rd coach in 30 year, we fired one bad one. We're south carolina, no one we want is going to give two thoughts about us letting holbrook go. we don't accept mediocrity and that's our standard. we'll have a line out the door of coaching replacements.

Way to post a response totally unrelated to the thread. This thread as nothing to do with any coach's performance relative to the program's past standards, you obviously just stepped onto this thread from one of the "fire Holbrook now, we're clearly in a decline from 2011" threads that have been clogging the toilet around here the past 3 months.

And yes, rest assured that any proven coach considering coming here would consider the stability of any contract where a previous coach, 1 year removed from a 40 win season and 3 years removed from an integral role in back to back CWS titles, was let go 4 years short of the term of the contract. Any coaching candidate who would come here subsequent to that would be only be running from a worse situation.

 

[Bongsummers]

Wrong again, Bongsummers. None of the coaches you mentioned were fired for a single bad season, as you and others suggest CH should be. Scott, Horn, Woods, and Odom had multiple losing or underperforming seasons that lead to their firing or resignation. And your story about Carlen falls far short from the complete conditions under which he left. Much more complicated than what you've implied, but I will not discuss that on social media. Don't come at me until you have your facts straight. My point regarding integrity is, if you terminate a contract without just cause, you do so with a loss of integrity, and good luck attracting quality candidates for a replacement. Not to mention the financial impacts of a multiyear contract buyout.

Ugh, so we terminated their contracts when they still had years left but...Wait, so what is the "but"? This is unambiguous. We gave people contracts and we terminated them with time left. Period. That means your integrity theory is wrong. We fire people on contract. Want more proof? Go look at the amount of coin we paid Horn, Odom and Scott because they had years left on their contracts. And last I checked, Horn didn't take over the best program in the country and he got the ax in year four. CH has another season like this, year four is when he should start worrying, too.

And yes, there was more to the Carlen story. But let's be clear, what you're suggesting he did - and everyone in this little state knows the story - isn't what ultimately got him canned. After all, we didn't hire a choir boy to replace him. Morrison was friggin wild man.

 

[gamecock_07]

e

Way to post a response totally unrelated to the thread. This thread as nothing to do with any coach's performance relative to the program's past standards, you obviously just stepped onto this thread from one of the "fire Holbrook now, we're clearly in a decline from 2011" threads that have been clogging the toilet around here the past 3 months.

And yes, rest assured that any proven coach considering coming here would consider the stability of any contract where a previous coach, 1 year removed from a 40 win season and 3 years removed from an integral role in back to back CWS titles, was let go 4 years short of the term of the contract. Any coaching candidate who would come here subsequent to that would be only be running from a worse situation.

"Scott, Horn, Woods, and Odom had multiple losing or underperforming seasons that lead to their firing or resignation." So how do you define underperforming then, if not relevant to program standards?

"My point regarding integrity is, if you terminate a contract without just cause," So just cause for the coaches you mentioned were losing or underperforming seasons....I think Holbrook falls into this category now.

"Any coaching candidate who would come here subsequent to that would be only be running from a worse situation" Paul Mainieri and his subsequent national championship would like to speak with you on his replacement of Smoke Laval following this sequence. CWS appearance, home regional elimination, missed NCAA.... sound familiar?

 

[searooster]

Ugh, so we terminated their contracts when they still had years left but...Wait, so what is the "but"? This is unambiguous. We gave people contracts and we terminated them with time left. Period. That means your integrity theory is wrong. We fire people on contract. Want more proof? Go look at the amount of coin we paid Horn, Odom and Scott because they had years left on their contracts. And last I checked, Horn didn't take over the best program in the country and he got the ax in year four. CH has another season like this, year four is when he should start worrying, too.

And yes, there was more to the Carlen story. But let's be clear, what you're suggesting he did - and everyone in this little state knows the story - isn't what ultimately got him canned. After all, we didn't hire a choir boy to replace him. Morrison was friggin wild man.

Again you miss the point. I'll try to simplify it for you. There is a difference between terminating a contract early for clear extended underperformance vs. terminating it early for one poor season, which does reflect an integrity issue. If you don't understand that now, you never will. Any reasonable observer of our current situation would be comfortable leaving that evaluation to the administration and our AD, you know those guys who actually know something about the subject, vs. a bunch of keyboard experts on a free forum.

 

[Bongsummers]

Again you miss the point. I'll try to simplify it for you and. There is a difference between terminating a contract early for clear extended underperformance vs. terminating it early for one poor season, which does reflect an integrity issue. If you don't understand that now, you never will.

"Chad gets 3 more years. We honor contracts."

No, you're not clarifying anything, - you're changing what you said to accommodate facts you failed to consider with your first post. Dissembling will not change the fact you said "we honor contracts" as an unequivocal statement and it's not true. We fire people under contract, meaning that Chad can't count on those "3 more years" if his team under performs.

 

[searooster]

"Chad gets 3 more years. We honor contracts."

No, you're not clarifying anything, - you're changing what you said to accommodate facts you failed to consider with your first post. Dissembling will not change the fact you said "we honor contracts" as an unequivocal statement and it's not true. We fire people under contract, meaning that Chad can't count on those "3 more years" if his team under performs.

Lord, now I've got to explain "honor" to you. If one party violates the terms of the contract (consistently underperforms), it is no longer legally binding. That doesn't mean the other party did not honor their obligations. I'm running out of small words to explain these matters to you.

 

[rogue cock]

Lord, now I've got to explain "honor" to you. If one party violates the terms of the contract (consistently underperforms), it is no longer legally binding. That doesn't mean the other party did not honor their obligations. I'm running out of small words to explain these matters to you.

Depends on if a "performance clause" is a condition of the contract. If not, no default under the contract. Then you get into negotiated buyouts of the remainder of the contract (absent a buyout clause).

 

[searooster]

Depends on if a "performance clause" is a condition of the contract. If not, no default under the contract. Then you get into negotiated buyouts of the remainder of the contract (absent a buyout clause).

I understand that, Rogue. And I would think there is some matter of performance clause included in the contract of most college head coaches. And the termination of that contract when the performance clause is consistently not met to satisfaction would not be defined as a failure of the institution to honor the contact.

My point to the other poster is that terminating the contract of a consistently underperforming coach, past or present, does not suggest that the terms of the contact weren't honored by the institution.

 

[Bongsummers]

Lord, now I've got to explain "honor" to you. If one party violates the terms of the contract (consistently underperforms), it is no longer legally binding. That doesn't mean the other party did not honor their obligations. I'm running out of small words to explain these matters to you.

You're dissembling and completely wrong and like a child not willing to admit it. You can be as patronizing as you like, but the facts are facts. Even if you're completely specious and logically ridiculous redefinition of honoring contracts were true, CH would presumably also have a "consistently under performs" clause in his contract (we all know he doesn't) and could be terminated before his three year contract ended. So, no matter how you skin this cat, your argument doesn't hold up.