So Sad for SC Football

[Ward Jr]

One thing that bothers me and apparently only me was when he said his phone was blowing up with BIG names that wanted to work for him. I've been assured on the other site that we would have given him whatever he needed to get them. Then we sat for two whole years with Satterfield. Then he replaced him with someone who hasn't been a college OC after failing as an OC in the NFL. People that know me know one thing I can't tolerate is lying. I discovered as a child that it was very uncomfortable for me to lie and I was very, very bad at it. So, I think he lied right to our faces and no one else seems to have a problem with it.

Maybe. Beamer was handed a team in tatters. We also had an 80th ranked recruiting class that first year.

I don't think it was really possible to fire Satterfield after year one with all of the talent and transition issues....especially after he left the NFL to take the job.

Also, I'm sure Satterfield had a multi-year contract while they were paying Beamer a fraction of what you would typically pay a HC. The last thing they wanted to do is pay two OC salaries (buyout and current) on the heels of the Muschamp bailout.

In terms of him lying about big names, I don't know many big OC names in general so not sure about that one either way.

 

[Bucs90]

seems a large portion of the fan base is totally fine with 3 to 6 wins a year. I keep reading comments like "who else can we get to coach here." "we have injuries", "no one can win at SC", "Beamer wants to be here" "cant win in the NIL era" ect, ect, I guess the fans will blindly support a bottom feeder football program forever. I know the administration doesn't care about wins and losses as long as the money keeps rolling in. Insanity is following the same formula over and over and expecting different results....spend the money and hire a real AD, Head coach,OC and DC.......if anyone out there thinks next year will be any different, I will gladly repost this next year at this time....

Unfortunately you’re right. We had options. It can and has been done here. NIL changes things BUT USC is among the top 25 NIL money programs so its not like we can’t bring players in. Rattler and Juice for example.

Basically just shut up and buy a womens basketball t-shirt. Thats what Ray would say.

 

[Bucs90]

Tanner had options. One incredible one that I and others beat the drum for.

Instead he decided to go with an unknown. To let an SEC head coach learn on the job instead of having HC or coordinator experience.

 

[Ward Jr]

Here is the staff when he was "Assistant head coach". The title, or a similar one, was pretty common throughout the staff.

2018 Football Coaches - University of Oklahoma

The official Football Coach List for the University of Oklahoma

soonersports.com

I have no idea the depth of his role at OU. I'm just speculating as to why they might have chosen him.

Again, the list of candidates to come to the job "where coaches die" is not often going to involve big name coaches.

Spurrier and Holtz came for the challenge. They weren't courted or recruited. That's our storied history in terms of high profile coaches.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

If they had lost to Jax State in WIlliams-Brice, that would have caught the attention of the AD bigtime.

You would think that ALMOST losing to Jax St. at home would have gotten their attention too. It certainly got the paying customer's attention.

 

[Ward Jr]

Unfortunately you’re right. We had options. It can and has been done here. NIL changes things BUT USC is among the top 25 NIL money programs so its not like we can’t bring players in. Rattler and Juice for example.

Basically just shut up and buy a womens basketball t-shirt. Thats what Ray would say.

If 75-80% of the teams in your league that play each year have better recruiting and NIL, it really doesn't matter right?

If we went to Chadwell's Conference USA, we could rip it and try to angle into relevance that way.

 

[Bucs90]

You would think that ALMOST losing to Jax St. would have gotten their attention too. It certainly got the paying customer's attention.

Youd think right!?!? Ray Tanner is an absolute disaster.

Its almost like he subconsciously doesnt want any other men’s sport to top his baseball championships, to outshine his legacy. Did he hold some animosity towards all fans bc we celebrated Spurriers 11-2 football teams more than his national champ baseball team????

 

[Bucs90]

If 75-80% of the teams in your league that play each year have better recruiting and NIL, it really doesn't matter right?

If we went to Chadwell's Conference USA, we could rip it and try to angle into relevance that way.

We (Ray) hired a coach who’s sole qualification was an elite recruiter. So is he failing since our recruiting is bottom 20%?

Also, Chadwell accomplished what he did at schools who ALSO played competition that had significant resource advantages and recruited better. You think Charleston Southern wasnt at a disadvantage vs App State, Coastal Carolina, Liberty, Citadel?? He beat em anyway. Coastal moves from FCS to FBS and he immediately started beating FBS teams with more resources and better recruiting.

SOOO why wouldnt we hire someone who fits the exact mold we need?? Overachiever who beats teams who have more than us?

 

[Ward Jr]

Youd think right!?!? Ray Tanner is an absolute disaster.

Its almost like he subconsciously doesnt want any other men’s sport to top his baseball championships, to outshine his legacy. Did he hold some animosity towards all fans bc we celebrated Spurriers 11-2 football teams more than his national champ baseball team????

Wonder what would have happened if Lattimore and Clowney would have been being courted each year with millions of dollars?

Even if we had been able to round up the cash to pay for them, you're going to lose major chunks of the supporting cast.

Spurrier knew this was coming down the pipe and knew USC was going to take a big hit.

There was an entire article in SI (or the like) interviewing him discussing this exact thing. I'll try to dig it up.

 

[Ward Jr]

We (Ray) hired a coach who’s sole qualification was an elite recruiter. So is he failing since our recruiting is bottom 20%?

Also, Chadwell accomplished what he did at schools who ALSO played competition that had significant resource advantages and recruited better. You think Charleston Southern wasnt at a disadvantage vs App State, Coastal Carolina, Liberty, Citadel?? He beat em anyway. Coastal moves from FCS to FBS and he immediately started beating FBS teams with more resources and better recruiting.

SOOO why wouldnt we hire someone who fits the exact mold we need?? Overachiever who beats teams who have more than us?

USC has a ceiling. Spurrier was a complete aberration in terms of our history. Maybe someone exists who can replicate his appeal -- but are they interested in USC and good luck finding them.

The top of D1 leaves little variance to operate. it's a tight range because competition is elite.

If Chadwell finds his way into the SEC and is beating competition he is not supposed to beat on a consistent basis, I'll find you and lay on the sword. He wasn't even picked up by a P5 school.

 

[Bucs90]

Wonder what would have happened if Lattimore and Clowney would have been being courted each year with millions of dollars?

Even if we had been able to round up the cash to pay for them, you're going to lose major chunks of the supporting cast.

Spurrier knew this was coming down the pipe and knew USC was going to take a big hit.

There was an entire article in SI (or the like) interviewing him discussing this exact thing. I'll try to dig it up.

Maybe we lose em maybe we dont. Maybe in that hypothetical, Spurriers staff gets NFL All Pro DB Josh Norman to transfer from Coastal to us. Or maybe he convinces App State superstar QB Armani Edwards to come back home and play here.

All of our in-state FCS teams send guys to the NFL. Beamer has that recruiting ground that Spurrier didn’t. Beamer can immediately fill a hole with proven experienced 21-22 year old college players like Rattler and Juice Wells. Spurrier didnt have that luxury.

 

[Bucs90]

USC has a ceiling. Spurrier was a complete aberration in terms of our history. Maybe someone exists who can replicate his appeal -- but are they interested in USC and good luck finding them.

The top of D1 leaves little variance to operate. it's a tight range because competition is elite.

If Chadwell finds his way into the SEC and is beating competition he is not supposed to beat on a consistent basis, I'll find you and lay on the sword. He wasn't even picked up by a P5 school.

Wanna know why? Im friends with guys who coached on staffs with him. He likes this region of the country (SC/NC/TN/VA) its where hes from and he isn’t interested in leaving it. His background in college is 20 years working at colleges in South Carolina, and P5 schools think he hadnt built a national recruiting presence. Which is probably true but for us we dont need that. We need to own the Southeast, our own state in particular. It was the perfect fit in every way, except Ray just wouldn’t consider it. Who better to pursue 4/5 star kids in this region than someone who has built relationships with those high school coaches by recruiting their 1 and 2 star kids for the last 2 decades?

 

[Ward Jr]

Maybe we lose em maybe we dont. Maybe in that hypothetical, Spurriers staff gets NFL All Pro DB Josh Norman to transfer from Coastal to us. Or maybe he convinces App State superstar QB Armani Edwards to come back home and play here.

All of our in-state FCS teams send guys to the NFL. Beamer has that recruiting ground that Spurrier didn’t. Beamer can immediately fill a hole with proven experienced 21-22 year old college players like Rattler and Juice Wells. Spurrier didnt have that luxury.

You're cherrypicking G5 players who happened to make it. The odds of consistently finding these guys and now competing with schools with more to offer is very low.

The point you miss is that if teams who are already better than you are picking from your team, while you're having to pick from schools who have lesser talent on average --- what is going to happen over time?

 

[Ward Jr]

Wanna know why? Im friends with guys who coached on staffs with him. He likes this region of the country (SC/NC/TN/VA) its where hes from and he isn’t interested in leaving it. His background in college is 20 years working at colleges in South Carolina, and P5 schools think he hadnt built a national recruiting presence. Which is probably true but for us we dont need that. We need to own the Southeast, our own state in particular. It was the perfect fit in every way, except Ray just wouldn’t consider it. Who better to pursue 4/5 star kids in this region than someone who has built relationships with those high school coaches by recruiting their 1 and 2 star kids for the last 2 decades?

You could be right. My point is that it's total speculation.

Ray and the board had egg on their face after Muschamp. In their eyes, Beamer was a better option in terms of optics for the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[Bucs90]

You're cherrypicking G5 players who happened to make it. The odds of consistently finding these guys and now competing with schools with more to offer is very low.

The point you miss is that if teams who are already better than you are picking from your team, while you're having to pick from schools who have lesser talent on average --- what is going to happen over time?

You know we are one of those schools with “more to offer”?? One of the best gameday experiences. Proven record of putting guys into the NFL. SEC competition. A top 25 revenue program.

Sure we may lose some guys to FSU or Oregon. Well 90% of FBS and FCS teams should worry about losing their best players to us.

We need(ed) a coach who has proven he can win as a head coach or coordinator in THIS era. NIL didnt happen yesterday we have had it for a bit now.

**Also, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State only have 22 starters out of 85 players. WE are that better option for some of their backups, who are probably better than 95% of other team’s starters. Many of them dont wanna be backups. No reason we cant pursue them.

 

[Bucs90]

You could be right. My point is that it's total speculation.

Ray and the board had egg on their face after Muschamp. In their eyes, Beamer was a better option in terms of optics for the reasons I mentioned above.

You nailed it: speculation. What if??

But we disagree on what that means. Beamer was 100% speculation. We had literally no track record of him as a head coach or coordinator, a total unknown.

Muschamp flopped at Florida but was and still is an elite DC. That wasnt as risky of a hire. Chadwell had 15 years track record as a winning HC and coordinator.

But instead we chose total speculation for what reason? This is all Tanner

 

[Ward Jr]

You know we are one of those schools with “more to offer”?? One of the best gameday experiences. Proven record of putting guys into the NFL. SEC competition. A top 25 revenue program.

Sure we may lose some guys to FSU or Oregon. Well 90% of FBS and FCS teams should worry about losing their best players to us.

We need(ed) a coach who has proven he can win as a head coach or coordinator in THIS era. NIL didnt happen yesterday we have had it for a bit now.

80% of the teams in our league are better than us in any given year. That's our big problem.

They have storied history, dedicated campuses, bigger donors, larger TV markets, etc.

It doesn't matter how good your program is when you're playing better programs all year.

We're a small fish in a big pond from a football perspective.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Maybe. Beamer was handed a team in tatters. We also had an 80th ranked recruiting class that first year.

I don't think it was really possible to fire Satterfield after year one with all of the talent and transition issues....especially after he left the NFL to take the job.

Also, I'm sure Satterfield had a multi-year contract while they were paying Beamer a fraction of what you would typically pay a HC. The last thing they wanted to do is pay two OC salaries (buyout and current) on the heels of the Muschamp bailout.

In terms of him lying about big names, I don't know many big OC names in general so not sure about that one either way.

He didn’t limit his statement to OCs. And I can accept Satterfield as a one year placeholder while finalizing contracts with proven OCs. That's what a real coach would have done. But he didn't. I guarantee that the rest of the SEC wants Beamer to be here just as long as the pixie dust and unicorn fart sunshine pumpers on the Insiders forum.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

80% of the teams in our league are better than us in any given year. That's our big problem.

Actually I think 80% of the SEC has more real fans that are more interested in winning.

 

[Ward Jr]

You nailed it: speculation. What if??

But we disagree on what that means. Beamer was 100% speculation. We had literally no track record of him as a head coach or coordinator, a total unknown.

Muschamp flopped at Florida but was and still is an elite DC. That wasnt as risky of a hire. Chadwell had 15 years track record as a winning HC and coordinator.

But instead we chose total speculation for what reason? This is all Tanner

I don't believe it's all Ray. I'd offer the email exchanges b/t him and the board during the hire as evidence.

The AD postured as if some benefactor woke up one day and decided he would rather buy out Muschamp's contract than own an oceanfront home in Little Cayman.

There's no way that's what happened.

It would be one thing if we had some storied tradition and bought in talent like UF.

Changing out a head coach might be just what the doctor ordered.

For us, it was just another spin of the head coaching wheel.

The AD didn't want donors believing their money was going to a bad decision (buyout).

This was underscored by the initial Beamer contract. ($2.5mil)

 

[Ward Jr]

Actually I think 80% of the SEC has more real fans that are more interested in winning.

So you don't believe places like Athens are a far superior environment to succeed in general?

They just open their door and 5-stars walk through it.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Maybe in that hypothetical, Spurriers staff gets NFL All Pro DB Josh Norman to transfer from Coastal to us. Or maybe he convinces App State superstar QB Armani Edwards to come back home and play here.

Two Greenwood guys! I like it.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

So you don't believe places like Athens are a far superior environment to succeed in general?

They just open their door and 5-stars walk through it.

They certainly are now. I remember when Miami had a ceiling too. Then Howard Leslie Schnellenberger showed up.

 

[Ward Jr]

They certainly are now. I remember when Miami had a ceiling too. Then Howard Leslie Schnellenberger showed up.

Are you trying to compare Miami to Columbia? Environment is a really big deal. Not to mention, that area of the country is loaded with great recruits.

 

[Ward Jr]

If we get manage to get another marketing mogul as head coach, that might help overcome some of the limitations we have in terms of resources and competiting in the SEC.

I thought Lane Kiffin would have been a great pickup for us. He brings the media attention wherever he goes and coaches a fun game. Almost like a younger Spurrier.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Are you trying to compare Miami to Columbia? Environment is a really big deal. Not to mention, that area of the country is loaded with great recruits.

Yeah but FOR YEARS they were everybody's homecoming opponent. It took one coach to turn everything around. Have you ever been to Tuscaloosa? They don't have anything on Columbia except better fans.

 

[Ward Jr]

Yeah but FOR YEARS they were everybody's homecoming opponent. It took one coach to turn everything around. Have you ever been to Tuscaloosa? They don't have anything on Columbia except better fans.

Storied tradition. Bear Bryant. The face of college football over the years to some extent.

I'm interested to see if they continue to lose ground with big NIL teams gaining ground.

You can tell Saban is tired of the whole thing already.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Storied tradition. Bear Bryant.

Again, one coach turned everything around.

 

[Ward Jr]

Again, one coach turned everything around.

In the 1950s-60s when college football was next to nothing compared to today.

Even when Alabama Football hit the dry spell, they were still the #2 team in the country in terms of fans. Only Ohio State had a bigger following.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

In the 1950s-60s when college football was next to nothing compared to today.

Even when Alabama Football hit the dry spell, they were still the #2 team in the country in terms of fans. Only Ohio State had a bigger following.

Fans like you would not fit in with the winning teams. They don't settle for excuses. Excuses are all you seem to have.🙂

 

[Ward Jr]

Fans like you would not fit in with the winning teams. They don't settle for excuses. Excuses are all you seem to have.🙂

I've got over 100 years of history on my side for reference. 🙂

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

I've got over 100 years of history on my side for reference. 🙂

And it will be that way for another 100 years with that attitude. 🙂

 

[Ward Jr]

And it will be that way for another 100 years with that attitude. 🙂

So you're another who believes we should just keep paying buyouts along with new head coaching salaries until we hit the pot of gold?

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

So you're another who believes we should just keep paying buyouts along with new head coaching salaries until we hit the pot of gold?

Real fans demand whatever it takes. 🙂

 

[Ward Jr]

Real fans demand whatever it takes. 🙂

Humanities Degree?

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Humanities Degree?

Uh, no, usually takes a good coach. 🙂
But if you were asking about me I have an engineering degree and a business degree. I did not attend Carolina.

 

[Ward Jr]

Success in SEC Football is a bucket:

+ Money / Donors / NIL Deals
+ Tradition / Reputation
+ TV Market / Media Attention
+ Environment / Dedicated Campus v. City Campus
+ Location / Proximity to Big City & Corporations / Rich Recruiting Holes
+ Best Path to Playoffs and NFL
+ Quality Coaching Staff

The question is how full is our bucket in comparison to our brethren in the SEC?

Wouldn't the comparison look quite different if we were in the ACC?

We hang on to finding an "awesome coach" because that's the only variable we can control.

That variable is limited because of the way coaching contracts are structured. It's cost prohibitive.

The AD doesn't want to discuss the topics above because they don't want to discourage fans and donors.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

The AD doesn't want to discuss the topics above because they don't want to discourage fans and donors.

The current product on the field will do that. 🙂

 

[Ward Jr]

The current product on the field will do that. 🙂

If you have $21 Large to throw at another new coach and move the meter a little -- there's an outside chance the next casino spin might have us beating Missouri and UK on a little more regular basis. 🙂

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

If you have $21 Large to throw at another new coach and move the meter a little -- there's an outside chance the next casino spin might have us beating Missouri and UK on a little more regular basis. 🙂

Without a change at the top I'm rather doubtful. 🙂