Article from today about Clemson (Tillman Hall)

[jdf1953]

Beckham I have no issue with the piece or the writer except the part I quoted. He is welcome to express his thoughts as he chooses BUT there are parts of it that sound like "black power" propaganda to stir up more racial tension which we have an ample supply of right now. There is no way you can compare slavery on a plantation to kids playing football for a free education and a chance at millions in the NFL. That one paragraph just rubbed me the wrong way.

I think you can make the comparison. And if Tillman Hall was at USC, you my friend would be screaming along with your other inbred taterheads for Carolina to address this issue. And while we are at it, what about old Frank Howard, another racist who now has the football field named after him. If Clemson University was anywhere but the backwoods of Pickens County its social ills would be front page news.

 

[winloseortie]

I'll throw in my two cents...,,
No one had clean hands in these stories, comparing levels of sinfulness usually degenerates into self justification.

Another measure would be to see how these men grew or changed: Lincoln, Hampton, even Thurmond grew and changed.

Clemson University itself has changed in ways that have repudiated Tillman and his legacy. Women and African Americans have been admitted. It is no longer a military school. It self prides itself on attracting the wealthy and elite to its campus. All of this was anathema to Tillman

Compare all of these to Tillman who never expanded his thought. He never repented or showed any introspection in his views on race and class.

Clemson will eventually and painfully have to reckon with their legacy. I do not feel I need to bring Clemson to account for their heritage. Those are not my monkeys nor are they my circus. But I must admit it is fun to watch the mental and moral gymnastics

 

[Will4Clemson]

I agree that Tillman hall should be renamed. It was named that in 1946 at the behest of his son. I see no reason to keep the name. I would like to see ti go back to "Old Main Hall"

Where is the vitriol for Winthrop or the fact that a statue of Tillman is on the state house grounds?

And if we are going to get rid of all buildings named after questionable characters from SC history I would also suggest the buildings at Clemson, USC, Winthrop, and the high school in Duncan named after James F Byrnes should be renamed under this same premise.

This argument of your "privileged white male land owner in the late 1800's early 1900's" is worse than my "privileged white male land owner in the late 1800's early 1900's" is really stupid.

 

[superflyby]

Jack, the First College-owned Slave

http://library.sc.edu/digital/slaveryscc/1815-1816-jack-the-first-college-owned-slave.html

Here again, we are talking about things that happened in the past and things that are embraced in our present....We are still talking about a murdering, genocidal maniac that you still hold dear at the center of your campus vs something that happened 100 years ago.....now...go find me something that is happening today that has the Tillman legacy....I will be waiting....

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Say what you want SHill, but that was one of your own, a grad student at CU. He took the time to educate himself on everything that he wrote, which is more than I can say for many CU fans. They'd rather not know anything about Tillman and remain in denial. That's what the article is about.

Well, many CU fans remain in denial about a lot of things, e.g., the 1981 so called National Championship in football.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

The best possible outcome is my personal opinion would be to take down the Ben Tillman statue in Columbia and ship it to Clemson where they would want it.

Then replace Tillman's statue that was in Columbia with one in memorial of Senator Pinckney from Marion, SC and all of the deceased from the hate crime in Charleston.

I, too, would be in favor of the above recommendation.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

We Gamecock fans need to organize a rally on the tater tech campus right in front of tillman hall, and make sure it gets the appropriate attention it deserves!!

That and sending all potential African-American being recruited by quempsum a copy of this article.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

I am more concerned with what people did after the Civil War. Did they lose graciously and change their ways or did they commit further atrocities? If we have to look at Wade Hampton too than so be it. I have no problem with it. It looks like Hampton was a local leader of the "Red Shirts" which sounds a lot like the KKK and these "rifle clubs" that Tillman was involved with. There are 3 wade Hamptons in that line. I one served in the Revolutionary War, one served in the War of 1812, one served in Civil War. If anything is named after the first 2, than I am okay with leaving it, if anything is named after Wade Hampton III, than I would like to see it changed or made a historical site and the University disown it. I think we have a female dorm named Wade Hampton. I don't know which Wade Hampton it was named after. Any statues to Wade Hampton III should be removed or if not, his misdeeds should be added to the statue.

My thoughts exactly, yes those buildings were built by salves but it was prior to the Civil War. Tillman's comments were post civil war.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

I agree that Tillman hall should be renamed. It was named that in 1946 at the behest of his son. I see no reason to keep the name. I would like to see ti go back to "Old Main Hall"

Where is the vitriol for Winthrop or the fact that a statue of Tillman is on the state house grounds?

And if we are going to get rid of all buildings named after questionable characters from SC history I would also suggest the buildings at Clemson, USC, Winthrop, and the high school in Duncan named after James F Byrnes should be renamed under this same premise.

This argument of your "privileged white male land owner in the late 1800's early 1900's" is worse than my "privileged white male land owner in the late 1800's early 1900's" is really stupid.

Not so much stupid as truthful.

 

[4forcu]

I just wonder what their African American football players think of their decision now, to play at tillman university, built on land that was once a slave plantation?

so no one at use ever owned slaves

 

[Will4Clemson]

Not so much stupid as truthful.

As usual your contributions to the dialog are inane and pointless.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

As usual your contributions to the dialog are inane and pointless.

Well, must not be too pointless because I have a whole lot more "likes" than you.

 

[pepsicock]

That's it. They should tear Clemmy down !

 

[Anna_Nimmitty]

Just to start an open conversation here (LegalTiger and 4for I'm throwing this one at you and whomever else) the following is a basic fact; if it weren't for the very existence of Ben Tillman (and everyone feel free to express your opinions, feelings and beliefs, etc., - just be honestly honest here), and his basic beliefs and theories, (IOW's who and what Tillman was) there'd be no CU as it's came to exist from it's initial concept. Same to be said regarding Winthrop.

IOW's, if it weren't for his theory/belief of white supremacy and the belief that whites were/are "supreme" in regards to comparison to other races, then how else could you imagine CU (and Winthrop) coming to exist back then??

Not requesting nor asking for any "if 's or but's", rather just inquiring based and focussing on facts.

No curve balls for replies here folks - just base your opinion(s) on facts please.

In closing, there is no such thing as a perfect world in regards to us Americans - there are no perfect groups, races, nor political beliefs, etc. With such in consideration, and with this question being focused on the basic righteousness and/or wrongness of ALL AMERICAN HUMANBEINGS in general, do you honestly believe that CU would exist in this Wonderful State of South Carolina if it weren't for the basic beliefs and/or theories of white supremacy?

Just a very basic and honest question there. Just initiating an open and honest question, that's it I promise - I Do Not hate CU to the point that I do not believe it should exist. Rather I merely submit this question as an inquiry.

In closing, I will state that I do not think/believe/wish that CU didn't nor shouldn't exist. I'm merely "cutting to the edge" to get to the most basic point(s) of what can be considered righteous or "politically correct" in this 21st century.

Lets see how this flows from here EVERYBODY.
WADR,

Anna_Nimmitty

 

[Combahee Cock]

Damn fine post Anna. I seriously doubt any of the house tots will touch this one w/ a 10 ft pole, though.

 

[Carpe Diem 66]

Well, must not be too pointless because I have a whole lot more "likes" than you.

Any competent ex Fortune 250 manager should know that 178 likes out of 30,645 posts(.0058%) doesn't even come close percentage-wise to 1 like in 15 posts(.067%). What we have here is a basic failure to understand math or a person who puts his/her mouth in drive before the brain is in gear.

 

[Bongsummers]

First, Lincoln thought sending freed slaves back to Africa was in their interest because they'd never be accepted in American society. And his views on race might seem extreme by modern standards, but certainly not by those of the 19th century.

And your suggestion that we all read the slave narratives so we can we be shocked is another attempt to paint slavery as a benign, paternalistic institution. Yeah...

 

[67gamecock]

Before you do that, you may want to check your OWN history.
You see, USC was established based on a grant fro. Wade Hampton, whose statue is on the State House grounds.
Hampton was believed to be the biggest slaveowner in America when the war started.
This isn't a Clemson issue, bud.
History has been rewritten.
Both sides had slaves.
Everyone on both sides were racists.
But only the South is under attack.

Once again. A Tater trying to analyze history. Tillman opposed Hampton because Hampton wanted more rights and educational opportunities for blacks, anti-lynching laws, etc. Tillman was a 19th century Nazi!

 

[usaguy40]

I just wonder what their African American football players think of their decision now, to play at tillman university, built on land that was once a slave plantation?

i can promise you they didnt know and im sure it was never revealed to them on their tour of the campus

 

[Shevlin77]

http://library.sc.edu/digital/slaveryscc/buildings.html

Cock fans are not going to repond to this. If they did they would have to start calling for buldings to be torn down and rebuilt.

 

[usaguy40]

Here again, we are talking about things that happened in the past and things that are embraced in our present....We are still talking about a murdering, genocidal maniac that you still hold dear at the center of your campus vs something that happened 100 years ago.....now...go find me something that is happening today that has the Tillman legacy....I will be waiting....

talking to some of these clemson fans is like

 

[Anna_Nimmitty]

http://library.sc.edu/digital/slaveryscc/index.html


http://library.sc.edu/digital/slaveryscc/index.html

But you intentionally dodge The Fact about sCUm - That fact being that Clemson University WAS created and established by the racist and white supremacist "Ben Tillman" and on the property of a slave owner that concurred with Tillman's most basic concept of CU's creation/establishment!!

Yes, back in the day (I.e. 1801), South Carolina College, along with every other Southern (and Northern) college/university, may very well have had "slaves" on premises as a part if their (the collage and universities of that time) opperation and existence.

However, those very same collages and universities were NOT based nor focused on the concept of white supremacy.

Rather, they were based on and within the realities of their times. That very idea (the realities of the time of their creation/establishment) defines the existence and most basic creation of CU!!

Cock fans are not going to repond to this. If they did they would have to start calling for buldings to be torn down and rebuilt.

There ya go asshole.

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

Any competent ex Fortune 250 manager should know that 178 likes out of 30,645 posts(.0058%) doesn't even come close percentage-wise to 1 like in 15 posts(.067%). What we have here is a basic failure to understand math or a person who puts his/her mouth in drive before the brain is in gear.

And anyone that is a Rivals member should know that all members post count dates back to the date they joined, and that there were no likes until the new format was introduced roughly 3 months ago.

I nominate you and this post for IPOTY award (Idiot Post Of The Year).

Hopefully, you are not truly this stupid.

 

[GatorlandGamecock]

4forcu, why not read the entire thread. It is not about owning slaves, but about a person, that after the war, continued to carry out hateful, racist, and Jim Crow tactics in this state. In other words, he was a dispicable character until his death, and should have not statues or buildings named after him anywhere. Stop trying to deflect the fact that Clemson needs to change, which is shown clearly in the article written by one of it's own.

 

[Carpe Diem 66]

And anyone that is a Rivals member should know that all members post count dates back to the date they joined, and that there were no likes until the new format was introduced roughly 3 months ago.

I nominate you and this post for IPOTY award (Idiot Post Of The Year).

Hopefully, you are not truly this stupid.

Someone calling a poster an idiot and stupid when they don't even know how to correctly punctuate and compose a sentence. Pot meet kettle!

 

[superflyby]

Cock fans are not going to repond to this. If they did they would have to start calling for buldings to be torn down and rebuilt.

I will respond. These buildings much like others in South Carolina were built by slave labor. That is a fact of life then. The real issue with clemsux is the founder and the building that is the epicenter of your campus was built by a man who was a devout racist and murderer of a black race that he believed we should preform genocide on. I can see your lame attempt to drag what happened at South Carolina (who supported the flag removal for years vs clemsux recent one week support) is somewhat futile. Here is a little background on your founder who is still held in high regard by your University..... thank you for your attention....

http://www.sciway.net/hist/governors/tillman.html
Pitchfork" Ben Tillman
Ben Tillman was an unabashed and self-proclaimed "white supremacist" who led South Carolina's notorious Red Shirts, a paramilitary gang that murdered black people on small and large scales. Before his election, he participated in the Hamburg Massacre, using his role in the riot to vault his political career. About the massacre, in which six innocent African-Americans were killed, he stated, "The leading white men of Edgefield [decided] to seize the first opportunity that the Negroes might offer them to provoke a riot and teach the Negroes a lesson." Tillman further described the massacre as an opportunity for "the whites [to] demonstrate their superiority by killing as many of them as was justifiable."

Interestingly, while Tillman claimed to champion the rights of small farmers, he did very little to help them once he attained office. He did establish Clemson University for the study of agriculture, but other than that, he largely abandoned those who had voted for him.

Tillman is immortalized by a larger-than-life bronze and granite memorial at South Carolina's Statehouse, and both Tillman Hall at Clemson and Tillman Hall at Winthrop continue to bear his name.

 

[preebs2001]

I will respond. These buildings much like others in South Carolina were built by slave labor. That is a fact of life then. The real issue with clemsux is the founder and the building that is the epicenter of your campus was built by a man who was a devout racist and murderer of a black race that he believed we should preform genocide on. I can see your lame attempt to drag what happened at South Carolina (who supported the flag removal for years vs clemsux recent one week support) is somewhat futile. Here is a little background on your founder who is still held in high regard by your University..... thank you for your attention....

http://www.sciway.net/hist/governors/tillman.html
Pitchfork" Ben Tillman
Ben Tillman was an unabashed and self-proclaimed "white supremacist" who led South Carolina's notorious Red Shirts, a paramilitary gang that murdered black people on small and large scales. Before his election, he participated in the Hamburg Massacre, using his role in the riot to vault his political career. About the massacre, in which six innocent African-Americans were killed, he stated, "The leading white men of Edgefield [decided] to seize the first opportunity that the Negroes might offer them to provoke a riot and teach the Negroes a lesson." Tillman further described the massacre as an opportunity for "the whites [to] demonstrate their superiority by killing as many of them as was justifiable."

Interestingly, while Tillman claimed to champion the rights of small farmers, he did very little to help them once he attained office. He did establish Clemson University for the study of agriculture, but other than that, he largely abandoned those who had voted for him.

Tillman is immortalized by a larger-than-life bronze and granite memorial at South Carolina's Statehouse, and both Tillman Hall at Clemson and Tillman Hall at Winthrop continue to bear his name.

In addition to this...USC's buildings built by slave-labor were built when slavery was legal, not in the 1890's.

 

[Mattiefat]

Brainwash University will bury this and censor the writer within a matter of hours if it hasn't already. It really is a pretty accurate article. Daboo will be working overtime to whitewash this. This article should be sent to every recruit and high school coach in America and to every news media outlet as well. This would really make them sweat. I know all schools have baggage, especially in the south but BenTillman University takes the cake... no one individual associated with a state university compares to Ben Tillman as for as being a racist and John C Calhoun was pretty bad too. The thing about Clemson is that they ignore the obvious.... just read the article and watch the video.

Because recruits know that Ben Tillman is long gone and the people there now have no control what happened a hundred or more years ago. If Clemson is so racist, which school admitted the first black person into the school? Research it and then put your spin on it, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Anna_Nimmitty]

Because recruits know that Ben Tillman is long gone and the people there now have no control what happened a hundred or more years ago. If Clemson is so racist, which school admitted the first black person into the school? Research it and then put your spin on it, I'd love to hear it.

Already been discussed in another thread.

It was Harvey Gantt at CU - BTW, Tillman Hall should be renamed Gantt Hall ASAP!

 

[Mattiefat]

http://library.sc.edu/digital/slaveryscc/

 

[Anna_Nimmitty]

http://library.sc.edu/digital/slaveryscc/

Fatties, you're being repetitively stupid.

See above posts within this link. Your points are mute my friend.

 

[preebs2001]

1. 
   
2. A-Town Assassin‏@iamtimfrisby89 22h22 hours ago

1. SC political scientists say nay voter's on removal of Confederate Flag came predominately from Upstate (#Clemson Territory.) Surprised?

 

[superflyby]

Because recruits know that Ben Tillman is long gone and the people there now have no control what happened a hundred or more years ago. If Clemson is so racist, which school admitted the first black person into the school? Research it and then put your spin on it, I'd love to hear it.

Actually there were a black graduates of the University of South Carolina in 1877.....gotcha....

http://www.sc.edu/desegregation/