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Basketball is a simple game to understand, but...

garnet4me

Member
Mar 29, 2010
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The obvious truth

We have no outside shooters. On the flip side of this -- if we had 1-2 shooters we would beat UK today.
I love how we defend and rebound. The key for FM and our program in the next 1-2 years will be this issue = can we start making outside shots.
 
You can't win if you can't shoot/score.

This team will be inconsistent at best until that changes.
 
Shooting is the end state. A lot happens before then. Shooting is a big problem, but just on watching most games, I'd say this
team doesn't get or take nearly enough high percentage shots. And
that's down to their ability to run this motion offense--- which, to me,
relies a lot on high screen and rolls, with cross court motion from the
wings. Their screening is lazy from the big players. The guards don't always take the screen. The big players don't roll hard to the basket or slide off for an open jump shot. The wing players aren't looking to shoot during the open jump shot window. So, it's just listless offensive sets again and again. Sometimes they'll try to change it up by posting or going to the elbow, but that seems to either drain the clock or result in a turnover.

Over the course of the game, you want to get a certain percentage of easy shots / layups / dunks (70% + plus makes), open jump shots or contested low post (40% to 59%), and contested jump shots, late in the shot clock bad shots, highly contested dribble drive (39% and below). Just for very rough, example averages. Carolina is more often than not in the contested jump shot / late in the shot clock bad shot / highly contested dribble drive category. And they are on the low end of the conversion percentage on the open jump shot / contested post shot (if not off any reasonable scale for conversion). They are also prone to turnover spells, which results in zero percent conversion.

You can say they missed a bunch of open shots in this Kentucky game, and they did. Every team will miss open shots. But I'd say, just anecdotally, 70% of their shots must have been bad shots or highly contested.
 
Re: The obvious truth

Originally posted by garnet4me:
We have no outside shooters. On the flip side of this -- if we had 1-2 shooters we would beat UK today.
I love how we defend and rebound. The key for FM and our program in the next 1-2 years will be this issue = can we start making outside shots.

Only if FM can sign a few pure shooters.
 
Re: The obvious truth

I agree and that is my point exactly. I understand FM looks for imtensity and toughness in recruits, but he also needs to start targeting scorers. You've got to make shots to win. In last years UK upset, Brenton Williams scored a lot of points. We're missing him this year.
 
Re: The obvious truth


Originally posted by garnet4me:
We have no outside shooters. On the flip side of this -- if we had 1-2 shooters we would beat UK today.
I love how we defend and rebound. The key for FM and our program in the next 1-2 years will be this issue = can we start making outside shots.
And in year 3 I dont want to hear about what he has or does'nt or what they can do. I want results at that point and will expect results in year 4. If I dont get them I turn the page.
 
Defense/Offense

Defense is holding opponents at least 65 pts a game or whatever it is and gives us a chance in games but we just can't shoot (3-11,2-8,1-4, 2-8, 0-5, 1-7,1-4, 1-4, 1-2 :numbers from the field, and whenever we get the momentum , we piss it away. I really did think we had a chance when we went ahead 24-23 and then he'll broke loose before halftime.
 
BBall Program

It is hard to understand how this program has been so bad over the last 40-50 years. When will our coaches figure out that if you can't shoot, you can't win. Defense will keep you in games, but in the end you have to be able to shoot the ball to win. When no one on your team is confident or consistent enough to shoot the ball, you lose in the end. I watch some basketball, but not nearly what I used to, and I see team after team with players who can shoot the ball.
 
Re: BBall Program

So what is the solution you are suggesting garnet4me? Other teams with talented players and basketball history get kids who want and EXPECT to be successful. They spend extra time in the gym after practice and on their own time working hard to be good at shooting the ball. They start with the kind of talent and attitudes that lead to success... We get the leftovers after those programs are done signing the best talent, and we get mostly kids from our area. Those who grew up a round here should know what I am suggesting, but if you do not let me spell it out:

A quick story from my childhood growing up here ins SC- my parents had us going to to he local school in Allendale SC right up until my brother got to Middle Shool. The breaking point was when my brother did a homework assignment one day and on the way to school he ASKED MY MOM TO BRING IT BACK AT LUNCH TIME AND GIVE IT TO THE TEACHER FOR HIM SO HE WOULD NOT GET PICKED ON FOR DOING HIS HOMEWORK! Now... How does this relate to basketball? This attitude of "man I ain't going to do that, I am too cool to do the right thing..." Permeates our state from grade school on up. Especially in the poor areas like Allendale, but I see it in the attitude of many of our football players and Frank's comments about kids not putting in the extra work since we got back from NY to work on their games... Just smacks of it! Sure, there are exceptions- kids like Marcus Lattimore who have great attitude and work ethic and are from SC... This is not an "EVERY kid has this attitude" statement. What I am saying is that TOO MANY of the players we seem to get DO have it. They obviously are not putting in the extra work needed to get better at shooting, and we are not the kind of program who can recruit that special talent that comes right out of HS ready to dominate and score prolifically at the next level. Martin has done an outstanding job on the recruiting trail and with guys like Thornwell, Notice, Stroman... And Dozier coming... We have better talent on the floor. What we need are LEADERS who can push their teammates to get better outside of practice time. We need a couple guys who lead by example and get on their teammates when they see they aren't doing what they should be doing! We just haven't had that and apparently we still don't.

You can blame it all on the coach and say "he hasn't recruited shooters"... That is true to an extent, but COACHES can only control a limited amount of time with these kids and if they aren't doing the wok outside of practice we will not get better.

This post was edited on 1/25 9:07 AM by Gamecock Lifer
 
We do need the hard work ethic, I agree with that thought for sure. I know FM preaches that constantly, and I say "Amen!" But think about this as well = great shooters are sometimes born with the gift to shoot accurately. I am a believer in hard work, but no matter how much I practice I will never beat a great shooter in a shooting contest. We need to target some players who score more often/easier than other players...sometimes our top criteria doesn't have to be "how tough are you, and how many rebounds can you grab?" I love how we defend and rebound now, this is a credit to our players and coaches. Three years ago we couldn't guard grandma and we were a terrible team. But to get to winning key games = we must shoot better and score more points.
 
The answer is we must recruit better players. This is the heart of winning at any level, and in any sport.
 
I don't know about better. We have players on the team that were rated high, but can not shoot a lick. I suggest finding a shooter in the lower level schools. I know there is one or two out there somewhere that can shoot better than our guys.
 
Originally posted by garnet4me:
We do need the hard work ethic, I agree with that thought for sure. I know FM preaches that constantly, and I say "Amen!" But think about this as well = great shooters are sometimes born with the gift to shoot accurately. I am a believer in hard work, but no matter how much I practice I will never beat a great shooter in a shooting contest. We need to target some players who score more often/easier than other players...sometimes our top criteria doesn't have to be "how tough are you, and how many rebounds can you grab?" I love how we defend and rebound now, this is a credit to our players and coaches. Three years ago we couldn't guard grandma and we were a terrible team. But to get to winning key games = we must shoot better and score more points.
What the heck are you talking about? You inherit things like body type and speed, not the ability to shoot a basketball. That's great that you are a believer in hard work and practice because that's what it takes to be good at anything. I love all the tapdancing around the fact we dont have a good coach.
 
What I mean is that natural ability and hard work are both factors in how well a player shoots a basketball. It is a fact that some players have a natural ability to shoot the ball accurately - if you deny this you are wrong. This is why some players (and teams for that matter) can practice shooting religiously, and show little or no improvement. I am not tap dancing to avoid saying we do not have a good coach... I am saying FM wants his teams to play tough defense and win the rebounding battle. These are great things but I think in recruiting he needs to target more shooters/scorers. Brenton Williams is a great example of my points in this discussion = I think his biggest contribution to our teams was the ability to hit long shots when we needed them (I'm sure he had defensive and rebounding contributions as well). In no way am I slamming our coach or players - I have been a Gamecock fan my entire life and will continue to pull for our team. I just want us to win! I wish the best of luck for our games and recruiting efforts!!
 
Re: The obvious truth


I think we've all heard Frank mention most of the guys are not putting in work after his time restricted practices. That's the big issue IMO.

Most all of the coaches I've gotten to know treat shooting secondary to defense and running and offense to get an open shot. This is why players in all age groups rarely get yelled at for missing an open shot... because they've always practiced to get good shots, not necessarily make them.

I liken it to baseball/softball at the high school level. Pitchers usually have to work on their own time. Time restrictions limit coaches to working on defense and hitting. If a pitcher doesn't put in the extra work on their own time, the team is doomed to fail. And if we can't make a basket because guys aren't shooting enough, you get the same result.

In other words, I think Frank is doing his job, not sure the guys are though.
This post was edited on 1/26 9:27 AM by bucketdad
 
Re: The obvious truth


Originally posted by garnet4me:
We have no outside shooters. On the flip side of this -- if we had 1-2 shooters we would beat UK today.
I love how we defend and rebound. The key for FM and our program in the next 1-2 years will be this issue = can we start making outside shots.
Scoring on the inside is a bigger problem. We haven't had good inside scorers here in a long time. If we did it would lead to more open shots on the outside.
 
Re: The obvious truth


Yeah...it is tiresome....SC has been working on the athletic\defense program tract for nearly 15 years now....and it has been an abject failure.


Nothing more fun on a cold Saturday afternoon than watching a team grinding it way to 2-26 shooting....at this point for the next venture, I would suggest the school just find a run, gun and chuck it type coach whom just puts 9 3-pts shooter on the court and generates some scoring like Gonzaga and Xavier type programs .......we may still lose 95-86, but it would be darn sight more enjoyable than watching the 'lets make 7 baskets in a half" crude and the unable to break 40 ugliness.


Every year when I tune into the recruiting summaries for the basketball players and I hear a rangy, athletic player with great defensive skills...I know that a ton of bricks are on the way and 4 more years of 56-38 losses.




This post was edited on 1/26 4:45 PM by SClanding
 
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