Clemson WBB - Wow

[uscwatson21]

That is exactly the point. We are willing to spend top dollar on a women's basketball coach to lose $4.5 million a year. We weren't willing to do that for football, the most profitable and prestigious college sport. They were, and now they have an elite program.

So, laugh at their women's basketball program all you want. They put their money in the far better investment.

ening.

We would pay $9 million a year if we could get a proven winner.

There is no reason to pay Beamer $4.5 million because his salary doesn’t determine his success.

 

[winloseortie]

I was talking about the attendance issues.

Well that certainly is a different animal, that was not clear from your post. DS has put quality and attendance on a totally different
level.

The opening WBB game at the CLA before DS arrived drew over 17K. I know this is a one time anomaly. It does however point that there has been a hard core WBB fan base going back to the 70’s under Pam Parsons that has never been at CU

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

If all you care about is football, then that makes sense. I prefer a more well-rounded athletic program.

I used to feel similar, but not anymore. But let's be real. It's all about football. Sometimes basketball. Rarely about baseball. And never about women's basketball.

You will never, ever see Clemson spend $3 million on a women's basketball coach, because they understand this.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Yep, when both teams went to the final four, it was the first time for UA. They gave the athletic Dept. 10M to be split between the 2 programs. UA flogged the hell out of it.

Not that I doubt you, but do you have a link to that? I'd like to read the details and I can't find it anywhere on google.

 

[67gamecock]

You are penny wise and pound foolish in that assessment. Is DS overpaid as WBB coach, maybe in a narrow sense. Is she worth over 3M a year to USC? She’s probably underpaid.

She is the face of WBB. Did you know female applications to USC went up 25% within a year after winning the national title. 5M bonus from under armor for winning a national championship. Merchandise sales at record highs. We are on national television twice a week 4 months a year. USC WBB is not a national brand but an international brand.
Expand your vision

Excellent post! In one paragraph you have encapsulated the value of Dawn Staley and her basketball teams to the University of south Carolina and to the Palmetto state. I hope our football coach and his subsequent teams will do as well . . . . and I believe that they WILL!!! GO COCKS!

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

You are penny wise and pound foolish in that assessment. Is DS overpaid as WBB coach, maybe in a narrow sense. Is she worth over 3M a year to USC? She’s probably underpaid.

She is the face of WBB. Did you know female applications to USC went up 25% within a year after winning the national title. 5M bonus from under armor for winning a national championship. Merchandise sales at record highs. We are on national television twice a week 4 months a year. USC WBB is not a national brand but an international brand.
Expand your vision

It's not a matter of vision. All those are wonderful talking points, but it all comes down to who really cares, and that's not a lot of people. Otherwise, we wouldn't be losing $4.5 million a year on it.

 

[uscwatson21]

Well that certainly is a different animal, that was not clear from your post. DS has put quality and attendance on a totally different
level.

The opening WBB game at the CLA before DS arrived drew over 17K. I know this is a one time anomaly. It does however point that there has been a hard core WBB fan base going back to the 70’s under Pam Parsons that has never been at CU

Not sure if it's really a hard core WBB fanbase or we have an advantage population wise for casual fans to enjoy low cost entertainment.

 

[winloseortie]

Not sure if it's really a hard core WBB fanbase or we have an advantage population wise for casual fans to enjoy low cost entertainment.

Maybe a little of both

 

[Neanderthal]

USC WBB is not a national brand but an international brand.

Give Dawn credit for what she has accomplished, but USC WBB is not known internationally. Neither is any other of our teams - is my guess. Could be wrong.

 

[Neanderthal]

Are these salaries for coaches all over the country sustainable? Are our priorities off base? Is a reckoning coming?

 

[atl-cock]

That is exactly the point. We are willing to spend top dollar on a women's basketball coach to lose $4.5 million a year. We weren't willing to do that for football, the most profitable and prestigious college sport. They were, and now they have an elite program.

So, laugh at their women's basketball program all you want. They put their money in the far better investment.

ening.

Again, Staley and WBB bring lots of attention and goodwill to USC, which cannot be measured in straight $$$.

Contrary to the opinion of some, football is not the be-all and end-all of collegiate athletics. Many schools sponsor a robust varsity athletics program which does not include football.

 

[atl-cock]

Excellent post! In one paragraph you have encapsulated the value of Dawn Staley and her basketball teams to the University of south Carolina and to the Palmetto state. I hope our football coach and his subsequent teams will do as well . . . . and I believe that they WILL!!! GO COCKS!

I want all USC teams in all sports to do well, including football. Whether or not I closely follow an individual sport is irrelevant.

 

[atl-cock]

If all you care about is football, then that makes sense. I prefer a more well-rounded athletic program.

I used to feel similar, but not anymore. But let's be real. It's all about football. Sometimes basketball. Rarely about baseball. And never about women's basketball.

You will never, ever see Clemson spend $3 million on a women's basketball coach, because they understand this.

Is there a cure for this disease which has afflicted you?

 

[Neanderthal]

Many schools sponsor a robust varsity athletics program which does not include football.

Yes. Georgetown, Gonzaga, Marquette, La Salle, Belmont, Xavier, Charleston, Winthrop come to mind and are doing well. Good student populations, maintain high academic standards, miss some of the money but miss the expenses of football, and maybe could say they miss the aggravation of it. But I love football.

 

[Garnet chicken]

We got $5 million from Under Armour for winning a women's basketball national championship?

I find that really hard to believe, but I could be wrong.

I thought USC had like a 10 year deal for a certain amount including all athletic wear. I'm almost certain they did not get 5 million for that championship. If that was the case they should have got a bundle from baseball.

 

[RileyCock]

That is exactly the point. We are willing to spend top dollar on a women's basketball coach to lose $4.5 million a year. We weren't willing to do that for football, the most profitable and prestigious college sport. They were, and now they have an elite program.

So, laugh at their women's basketball program all you want. They put their money in the far better investment.

ening.

Your argument is based on the assumptions (1) that if we paid over $8 million a year on a coach then we would automatically be winning national championships in football and (2) that we can't afford said football coach because we are paying the women's coach so much money.

How do you know Carolina could get a national championship level coach to come here? It's more than price. Hell, Clemson had to build to get there by lucking out on Dabo and they sure didn't win a national championship because they outbid someone for him.

You have no opportunity cost basis for your argument. The opportunity cost argument applies more to Muschamp's buyout then it does to Dawn. If boosters did pay Muschamp's buyout then I'd bet someone would pay the landing fee for Saban if USC approached them to pay for him (hint: those guys aren't coming here).

Whether we spend too much on women's basketball is a valid subjective opinion but tying it to football is you just making yourself madder at Clemson's position and grasping at anything for support.

 

[RileyCock]

I thought USC had like a 10 year deal for a certain amount including all athletic wear. I'm almost certain they did not get 5 million for that championship. If that was the case they should have got a bundle from baseball.

It would take a lot of research to break down all of the compensation but a review of the ESPN story on her contract revealed that she will get paid $1M in salary and $1.9M in "outside compensation." I'm sure her status allowed USA to leverage these "outside" sources (UA, media, camps, made for ESPN games, other "proud sponsors of____", etc.) for more money than the average women's basketball coach.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Your argument is based on the assumptions (1) that if we paid over $8 million a year on a coach then we would automatically be winning national championships in football and (2) that we can't afford said football coach because we are paying the women's coach so much money.

How do you know Carolina could get a national championship level coach to come here? It's more than price. Hell, Clemson had to build to get there by lucking out on Dabo and they sure didn't win a national championship because they outbid someone for him.

You have no opportunity cost basis for your argument. The opportunity cost argument applies more to Muschamp's buyout then it does to Dawn. If boosters did pay Muschamp's buyout then I'd bet someone would pay the landing fee for Saban if USC approached them to pay for him (hint: those guys aren't coming here).

Whether we spend too much on women's basketball is a valid subjective opinion but tying it to football is you just making yourself madder at Clemson's position and grasping at anything for support.

My assumption is not based on any assumption other than the folks that want to win the most can and are willing to shell out the most money. We do it for wbb. We don't for football. The results speak for themselves.

 

[USC2USC]

That is exactly the point. We are willing to spend top dollar on a women's basketball coach to lose $4.5 million a year. We weren't willing to do that for football, the most profitable and prestigious college sport. They were, and now they have an elite program.

So, laugh at their women's basketball program all you want. They put their money in the far better investment.

ening.

Again, you are not comparing apples to apples. Dawn Staley got the big payday (similarly to Dabo) because of 14 years of sustained success including a ton of SEC titles, three Final Fours and a National Championship. You cant compare how we approach compensation for a 14 year tenured coach who is the most successful in the program's history to a brand new coach being hired in another sport into his first head coaching job.....even if it is football. It is just not the same thing.

 

[SouthCarolinagal]

I hate to point out the obvious, but apparently some of you posters don't have foresight. If it were easy, our previous WBB coaches would have brought exposure to our WBB program. You see, Where I'm from, you pay for results. You have to earn respect, the past 13 years the amount of exposure and revenue that Dawn Staley has brought out University demands the type of salary she receives. Constant top 5 finishes, Multiple Final Fours, National championship, Multiple SEC regular season and multiple SEC tournament championships, National Exposure, Olympic champion, Global Exposure, Merchandise Sells and Endorsements. You pay for results. Nothing was given to her, SHE EARNED IT. If, Shane produces at least half of what Dawn has accomplished at USC, then his salary will reflect the respect due to him. Until then, kindly refrain from insulting one the University's greatest Ambassadors.

Amen!

 

[SouthCarolinagal]

Again, you are not comparing apples to apples. Dawn Staley got the big payday (similarly to Dabo) because of 14 years of sustained success including a ton of SEC titles, three Final Fours and a National Championship. You cant compare how we approach compensation for a 14 year tenured coach who is the most successful in the program's history to a brand new coach being hired in another sport into his first head coaching job.....even if it is football. It is just not the same thing.

Exactly!

 

[USC2USC]

I used to feel similar, but not anymore. But let's be real. It's all about football. Sometimes basketball. Rarely about baseball. And never about women's basketball.

You will never, ever see Clemson spend $3 million on a women's basketball coach, because they understand this.

If Clempson had a women's coach as successful as ours that brings the same national publicity to the school, you bet they would pony up. If is easy for them to pretend they dont care when they are no good.

 

[Gbocock]

Just saw where Clemson Women's basketball has free admission for the rest of the year. Still playing at least two ranked teams at home (Georgia Tech and Louisville). Might have to show up for a freebie.
And I thought Clemson men were having attendance problems...

- WBB at all but a handful of schools is a poorly attended event
- have you ever watched a basketball game in Littlejohn? it's the pits.
- Clemson is in the middle of BF Eqypt. Greenville is the closest city of any size. Are you going to driver
the 45 miles to attend a WBB game in Clemson?
- the student body is the only potential "captive" audience for their games. if the students don't care, why should anyone else?

 

[Lakecock1]

I want all USC teams in all sports to do well, including football. Whether or not I closely follow an individual sport is irrelevant.

I don't believe there is a Gamecock fan alive who doesn't agree with your statements above - at least in theory. However, success (ie, 'doing well') comes at a cost. There are several fundamental principles governing college athletics, one of which you don't agree with - and that is football reigns supreme, and that football is an athletic department's cash cow.

Revenues from football create funds for all other sports that you and others want to be successful. Now, the question that obviously needs to be asked is 'What is the definition of doing well in all sports?' Now the answer to that question is what is truly SUBJECTIVE!

Not everyone is a football fan. But, the fans of all the other sports and the players themselves all benefit from the success of a football program to some degree - but NOT vice versa.

So, is a winning record across the board the only acceptable goal? Are mediocre programs acceptable? At what cost is simply competing acceptable? Is it better to fund ALL sports, both men's and women's, just so that everyone 'feels good' about our athletic programs? Or, would it be more beneficial to the vast majority to focus on certain sports in an attempt to elevate them to national prominence and allow ALL the programs to once again benefit from the resulting increase in revenues normally associated with that success?

The CEO of a successful business looking for the best ROI already knows the answer to the questions above.

 

[B.Springs Cock]

That is exactly the point. We are willing to spend top dollar on a women's basketball coach to lose $4.5 million a year. We weren't willing to do that for football, the most profitable and prestigious college sport. They were, and now they have an elite program.

So, laugh at their women's basketball program all you want. They put their money in the far better investment.

ening.

I just want to check and make sure you understand Clemson paid Dabo something like $800,000 (plus incentives) to be HBC when they first hired him in '08. So the true comparison here is Shane's first year $2.75M to Dabo's first year $800K. I'll even adjust for inflation and you can say Shane's first year $2.75M to Dabo's inflation-adjusted $962K. Let's even get crazy and say that first year HBC coaching salaries have grown 100% in 13 years, that puts Dabo's first year salary at $1.6M to Shane's $2.75M.

This comparison is invalid any way you look at it.

 

[USC2USC]

- WBB at all but a handful of schools is a poorly attended event
- have you ever watched a basketball game in Littlejohn? it's the pits.
- Clemson is in the middle of BF Eqypt. Greenville is the closest city of any size. Are you going to driver
the 45 miles to attend a WBB game in Clemson?
- the student body is the only potential "captive" audience for their games. if the students don't care, why should anyone else?

Understand your points but its not like Clempson is literally in the middle of nowhere. Its a short 30 minute drive to Greenville. The Greenville MSA population is larger than the Columbia MSA by approx 170,000. The region where Clempson is located (the Upstate) is the largest in the state. There are plenty of people in the area to produce acceptable crowds for sporting events where a good product is produced. The problem with Clempson women's basketball is they are bad.

 

[coldbud1994]

You are penny wise and pound foolish in that assessment. Is DS overpaid as WBB coach, maybe in a narrow sense. Is she worth over 3M a year to USC? She’s probably underpaid.

She is the face of WBB. Did you know female applications to USC went up 25% within a year after winning the national title. 5M bonus from under armor for winning a national championship. Merchandise sales at record highs. We are on national television twice a week 4 months a year. USC WBB is not a national brand but an international brand.
Expand your vision

Lol

 

[tailgatecock]

I'm not comparing Beamer's salary to anything. They are willing to spend $8.3 million for a top coach in the most important sport in college athletics. We spend one third of that and instead, spend $3 million on a coach for a sport that loses millions and most don't care about.

That's the facts.

Lmao

 

[MJDaGod6Rings]

Honest question for some of you in this thread...

Do any of you do any of the following things?

• Talk about WBB with your friends
• Attempt to talk WBB smack to Clemson fans you know
• Wear WBB jerseys/shirts around town
• Have intense WBB discussions at family get-togethers like Thanksgiving and Christmas

I'm a fourth generation Carolina grad who loves basketball as per my screen name, but I've never had a single discussion with anyone about WBB other than someone saying Dawn won a natty. Literally nobody cares. Clemson probably got more run out of their men's soccer national title this year than we will ever get out of WBB no matter how long Dawn stays here.

It's a totally irrelevant sport that literally nobody follows or cares about in this state or any other state. Clemson fans laugh at us when anyone brings it up.

 

[Neanderthal]

Answers to your bullet points: No, no, no, and no.

 

[Whiterockcock69]

Honest question for some of you in this thread...

Do any of you do any of the following things?

• Talk about WBB with your friends
• Attempt to talk WBB smack to Clemson fans you know
• Wear WBB jerseys/shirts around town
• Have intense WBB discussions at family get-togethers like Thanksgiving and Christmas

I'm a fourth generation Carolina grad who loves basketball as per my screen name, but I've never had a single discussion with anyone about WBB other than someone saying Dawn won a natty. Literally nobody cares. Clemson probably got more run out of their men's soccer national title this year than we will ever get out of WBB no matter how long Dawn stays here.

It's a totally irrelevant sport that literally nobody follows or cares about in this state or any other state. Clemson fans laugh at us when anyone brings it up.

Wrong. Completely. I like anything that wins. You just don’t get that many chances to win at anything. I’ll take it. The whole talk about benchmarking the sports by P&L is just not relevant. Colleges are bound to support mens and womens sports. Only one of them stands a real chance to make money. The comparison is pointless. The ROI on Coach Staley is quite significant. Just not to you. I talk about these girls with a lot of old white guys who love the hell out of football.

 

[uscedge21]

Clemson probably got more run out of their men's soccer national title this year than we will ever get out of WBB no matter how long Dawn stays here.

It's a totally irrelevant sport that literally nobody follows or cares about in this state or any other state. Clemson fans laugh at us when anyone brings it up.

What do you mean by "got more run?" I was totally unaware that Clempson won the soccer title this year. Not saying that soccer is irrelevant but it is far less popular than wbb. I would think that most average sports fans will know who wins the national championship in wbb the next day. "Totally irrelevant sport"......are you kidding me? Ask people in Tenn, Oregon, Conn, NC and SC (and many other states) if they are aware of the USC women's bb team. You would be unpleasantly surprised I am certain. And finally, who cares what Clempson fans think anyhow?

 

[atl-cock]

I don't believe there is a Gamecock fan alive who doesn't agree with your statements above - at least in theory. However, success (ie, 'doing well') comes at a cost. There are several fundamental principles governing college athletics, one of which you don't agree with - and that is football reigns supreme, and that football is an athletic department's cash cow.

Revenues from football create funds for all other sports that you and others want to be successful. Now, the question that obviously needs to be asked is 'What is the definition of doing well in all sports?' Now the answer to that question is what is truly SUBJECTIVE!

Not everyone is a football fan. But, the fans of all the other sports and the players themselves all benefit from the success of a football program to some degree - but NOT vice versa.

So, is a winning record across the board the only acceptable goal? Are mediocre programs acceptable? At what cost is simply competing acceptable? Is it better to fund ALL sports, both men's and women's, just so that everyone 'feels good' about our athletic programs? Or, would it be more beneficial to the vast majority to focus on certain sports in an attempt to elevate them to national prominence and allow ALL the programs to once again benefit from the resulting increase in revenues normally associated with that success?

The CEO of a successful business looking for the best ROI already knows the answer to the questions above.

Thank you for a well written, thought-out post. Especially the next-to-last paragraph.

I personally object to the "football reigns supreme" sentence without clarification. Football is definitely the cash cow for those schools which sponsor it, although I do question it at the D-II, D-III, and NAIA levels.

And when you state that the "fans of all the other sports and the players themselves all benefit from the success of a football program to some degree - but NOT vice versa." I assume you mean financially benefit.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

I just want to check and make sure you understand Clemson paid Dabo something like $800,000 (plus incentives) to be HBC when they first hired him in '08. So the true comparison here is Shane's first year $2.75M to Dabo's first year $800K. I'll even adjust for inflation and you can say Shane's first year $2.75M to Dabo's inflation-adjusted $962K. Let's even get crazy and say that first year HBC coaching salaries have grown 100% in 13 years, that puts Dabo's first year salary at $1.6M to Shane's $2.75M.

This comparison is invalid any way you look at it.

It's you that doesn't understand. Everybody knows the history, but that is incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial, unless there is some rule that prevented us from hiring an $8 million coach when we were shopping after Muschamp. I like and support Beamer and hope he will do well, but we hired on the cheap to develop a coach instead of trying to get to that coaching level immediately.

In football, the most profitable college sport, they are willing to pay top dollar. We are not. But we do it in women's basketball, a sport that loses a ton of money. Clemson will never waste $3 million on a wbb coach like we do. Ever. Because they understand that if there is a sport they are going to throw money at, it's going to be the one with the most prestige and ROI.

 

[Lurker123]

It's you that doesn't understand. Everybody knows the history, but that is incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial, unless there is some rule that prevented us from hiring an $8 million coach when we were shopping after Muschamp. I like and support Beamer and hope he will do well, but we hired on the cheap to develop a coach instead of trying to get to that coaching level immediately.

In football, the most profitable college sport, they are willing to pay top dollar. We are not. But we do it in women's basketball, a sport that loses a ton of money. Clemson will never waste $3 million on a wbb coach like we do. Ever. Because they understand that if there is a sport they are going to throw money at, it's going to be the one with the most prestige and ROI.

Except clemson hired on the cheap (Dabo) to develop a coach as well. It's not irrelevant at all to point out how similar the first contracts were if we are intent in comparing their salaries.

I agree with you on the idea of investing in the correct sport. But it's hard to ignore that Dabo was a cheap hire at first, just like Beamer.

If Beamer mirrors dabos success (or even comes close) he'll get that mega salary too.

 

[Lurker123]

Honest question for some of you in this thread...

Do any of you do any of the following things?

• Talk about WBB with your friends
• Attempt to talk WBB smack to Clemson fans you know
• Wear WBB jerseys/shirts around town
• Have intense WBB discussions at family get-togethers like Thanksgiving and Christmas

I'm a fourth generation Carolina grad who loves basketball as per my screen name, but I've never had a single discussion with anyone about WBB other than someone saying Dawn won a natty. Literally nobody cares. Clemson probably got more run out of their men's soccer national title this year than we will ever get out of WBB no matter how long Dawn stays here.

It's a totally irrelevant sport that literally nobody follows or cares about in this state or any other state. Clemson fans laugh at us when anyone brings it up.

No, no, no and no.

I literally hear about game results by glancing past thread topics on this forum.

 

[rgamecock1]

They pay their WBB coach a base salary of $130k and their football coach $8.3 million.
We pay our WBB coach $3 million and our football coach $2.75 million.
They pay more for a football head coach than we pay for our entire football staff.

Any questions why they win football championships and we don't?

Pay for success. Just the way it is in life. The ACC is the equivalent of an "All Participation League Championship". If you consider 'All Participation League Championships" a true value well I see you do not have a high value.

 

[rgamecock1]

We would pay $9 million a year if we could get a proven winner.

There is no reason to pay Beamer $4.5 million because his salary doesn’t determine his success.

If you think being an 'All participation League Championship a high value" I feel sorry for you. Carolina does not put all their financial resources in one sport. I think all of our olympic sports have done well. Playing in the SEC requires you invest your resources in all sports. If Beamer is successful he will be rewarded. Trust me he will.

 

[NMB Dave]

The opening WBB game at the CLA before DS arrived drew over 17K. I know this is a one time anomaly. It does however point that there has been a hard core WBB fan base going back to the 70’s under Pam Parsons that has never been at CU

I’m pretty sure the attendance for that game was more due to it being the first ever event at the arena, and that admission was only $1 so fans would come out and see the new place

 

[rgamecock1]

I used to feel similar, but not anymore. But let's be real. It's all about football. Sometimes basketball. Rarely about baseball. And never about women's basketball.

You will never, ever see Clemson spend $3 million on a women's basketball coach, because they understand this.

Secondly they do not have the ability to take womens sports seriously. They dropped mens and womens swimming. wrestling, tried to drop track and field but they got a lawsuit making them restore it. In today's world if you do not take womens sports seriously sooner or later you wil get left behind. Look at Tennessee, tell me they do not take womens basketball seriously. Just in todays world you better take womens sports seriously or you will be left behind.