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Defensive Coordinator to Coach recent history

gfluvsthecocks

gfluvsthecocks

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Jan 31, 2011
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The Kirby Smart situation feels like Muschamp at UF. I'm just not convinced that being a really good D Coordinator at a school where recruiting blue chip players is easy, will equate to success here. It seems that offense wins championships these days, and the challenge for Muschamp was always scoring points.

I realize that Smart is his own man, and if he's our choice, I support him. He's young, energetic, and a good recruiter. I know he can help stock the pantry. However, my fear is that if recruiting succeas doesn't lead to success on the field then we will be back in this position in 3-4 years.

I believe we need someone who has proven themselves as a head coach.
 
Sorry, I've been out all day and just getting around to reading part of the board. One thing that I just posted way down in a thread everyone else already has read is this...

There is a misconception that recruiting wins championships. Yes, if you are consistently in the top 5, it helps. However, Georgia is there every year and chokes. Missouri is not in the top 30 and has 2 straight east titles. Recruiting is not as important as on the field coaching over the course of a season. Once people make adjustments to your talent, a bad GameDay coach is not able to take advantage of a recruiting edge. That's why it's important to have an experienced head coach, with the intangibles necessary to be a good recruiter eventually.

I say we hire Fuente or Herman and spend a million on a recruiting coordinator.
 
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So, Muschamp is the entire "recent history" of DCs to head coach? Charlie Strong to Louisville is ancient history?
 
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Muschamps downfall was being too faithful to that QB who's at LaLaffayette now I think. The guy just wasn't a good QB for the SEC and everyone tried to make him the next Tebow. If you look at all those players Will recruited, you see some bad to the bone athletes. If Will had hired a o-coordinator and stuck with him I think you'd see different results.
 
gfluvsthecocks said:
Sorry, I've been out all day and just getting around to reading part of the board. One thing that I just posted way down in a thread everyone else already has read is this...

There is a misconception that recruiting wins championships. Yes, if you are consistently in the top 5, it helps. However, Georgia is there every year and chokes. Missouri is not in the top 30 and has 2 straight east titles. Recruiting is not as important as on the field coaching over the course of a season. Once people make adjustments to your talent, a bad GameDay coach is not able to take advantage of a recruiting edge. That's why it's important to have an experienced head coach, with the intangibles necessary to be a good recruiter eventually.

I say we hire Fuente or Herman and spend a million on a recruiting coordinator.
Click to expand...

No problem. Maybe I read too many of these threads. Anyway, I responded to your other posts that Mizzou isn't winning championships. Bama is.

Pinkel and Saban actually coached together on Don James' staff at Kent State. They are very similar in many ways. They are both excellent coaches, but one has elite talent and the other one doesn't.

Personally, I want a coach who can recruit. If his teams underperforms, then fire him and at least the cupboard will be full for the next coach.
 
You can make a good team with just mediocre talent if you have good coaching. You can make a good team out of GREAT talent if the coaching is just mediocre or sub- par as well. To make a great team, you need BOTH great talent and really good coaching... It is hard to find the right combination. Generally a successful head coach has to identify his weaknesses and build his staff to address them. I feel this is where Spurrier failed to capitalize on his potential here. He always seemed to believe that he didn't need the best talent to win, just competitive talent with good scheme should do it. We only had success here under him once he got a few elite players on the field. Spurrier was/ is a GREAT coach and when we combined that with the talent we had consistently ( top 20 ish talent) plus a few elite guys... We re-wrote the record books around here. I hope whomever we hire, he knows how to identify his own short comings and hires a staff that will help him build a complete team with both talent and sound coaching... Otherwise we will continue to be an incomplete program with mediocre results.
 
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I keep hearing Kirby Smart is a great recruiter and looking at the talent they bring in, it would be hard to argue.
With that said, lets face it, it's not exactly a difficult task to convince recruits to go to Bama. The program sells itself.
 
I am as much..if not more interested in who would bring in the best staff. I know that you guys are stuck on the head coach and that is important.....the staff will recruit and develop players. With Herman or Fuente you have a staff that is in place and pretty much follow the head coach. Smart will have to start from scratch. He may bring one or two from Bama but not many. That said....I would favor a HC over an assistant for that reason alone. He has already worked with these guys, where as Smart will go through a learning curve. It might work out but why play that game when a better option is there.
 
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We don't need another Brad Scott experiment with Kirby Smart. He's not proven that he is capable of being a head coach. Heck, Alabama recruits at the highest level and that's not going to happen here.
 
basses said:
We don't need another Brad Scott experiment with Kirby Smart. He's not proven that he is capable of being a head coach. Heck, Alabama recruits at the highest level and that's not going to happen here.
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Sparky Woods was a proven coach. How'd that turn out? If Clemson can recruit at the highest level, why can't we? I hate that loser mentality - it's never happened here, so it can't. Maybe if we had a coach and staff that were completely committed to recruiting it could be.
 
I agree, Sparky woods was a joke but we can not and will never recruit with the Bama's, Georgia and Tenn. Never will happen regardless of who coaches the team.
 
basses said:
I agree, Sparky woods was a joke but we can not and will never recruit with the Bama's, Georgia and Tenn. Never will happen regardless of who coaches the team.
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I thought we did pretty well recruiting against Georgia and Tennessee the first few years of Spurrier.
 
superflyby said:
I am as much..if not more interested in who would bring in the best staff. I know that you guys are stuck on the head coach and that is important.....the staff will recruit and develop players. With Herman or Fuente you have a staff that is in place and pretty much follow the head coach. Smart will have to start from scratch. He may bring one or two from Bama but not many. That said....I would favor a HC over an assistant for that reason alone. He has already worked with these guys, where as Smart will go through a learning curve. It might work out but why play that game when a better option is there.
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Herman and Fuente won't bring their staffs intact. At least I hope not. They are AAC coaching staffs.

When Saban went from Michigan State to LSU, he hired coaches like Jimbo Fisher, Derek Dooley & Rick Tricketts, who were southerners with SEC experience. Jim McIlwan hired almost an entire new staff when he went from Colorado State to Florida.

Smart should have no problems assembling a quality staff. Currently, a former Saban assistant is the defensive coordinator at LSU, Florida, Georiga, and Auburn. The head coaches at Florida and FSU are both former Bama assistants. So there are a lot of staffs he could potentially poach assistants from.
 
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Laziness said:
Sparky Woods was a proven coach. How'd that turn out? If Clemson can recruit at the highest level, why can't we? I hate that loser mentality - it's never happened here, so it can't. Maybe if we had a coach and staff that were completely committed to recruiting it could be.
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Sparky came in during the change from independent to the SEC. I think the timing was bad with him as much as anything.....but that's another subject all together.
 
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basses said:
I agree, Sparky woods was a joke but we can not and will never recruit with the Bama's, Georgia and Tenn. Never will happen regardless of who coaches the team.
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Well it's a different time, place and conference for sure....but S. Woods was no joke. He was a quick replacement for a terrible situation, but he was a young, offensive up and comer with a winning record at App State and succeeded Mack Brown who went onto to UNC as that same type guy before him. He was considered a "get" in a lot of ways. There are WAYYYYY more offensive OCs and offensive "guys" who sh!t the bed when getting a HC job than defensive guys.
I still find it funny people on here mention Fedora and Chad Morris types. Still waiting on either one of them to do one thing impressive at the college level....even in a ladies conference.
 
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DeBoer31 said:
Well it's a different time, place and conference for sure....but S. Woods was no joke. He was a quick replacement for a terrible situation, but he was a young, offensive up and comer with a winning record at App State and succeeded Mack Brown who went onto to UNC as that same type guy before him. He was considered a "get" in a lot of ways. There are WAYYYYY more offensive OCs and offensive "guys" who sh!t the bed when getting a HC job than defensive guys.
I still find it funny people on here mention Fedora and Chad Morris types. Still waiting on either one of them to do one thing impressive at the college level....even in a ladies conference.
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I agree...and like I said, the timing was terrible for him...the first few years in the SEC were brutal.
 
Harvard Gamecock said:
I keep hearing Kirby Smart is a great recruiter and looking at the talent they bring in, it would be hard to argue.
With that said, lets face it, it's not exactly a difficult task to convince recruits to go to Bama. The program sells itself.
Click to expand...
You realize there was a little time between Bear Bryant and Saban, right? A lot of coaches failed to have success at Bama.
 
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Dude if you're gonna start a thread with this type of headline, come with some damn facts and don't use Will Muschamp as "recent history of defensive coordinators becoming head coaches" as all of your ammo.
 
The people who don't want Kirby Smart use the same dumb tired argument "fat brad" and "will Muschamp" while ignoring everything else. The ignorance displayed by the posters who don't want Kirby Smart make me feel 100 times better about my support towards Kirby.
 
Agree - we need a high-powered offense, not a defensive minded coach, If we get Smart, Clemson will get all of the skill players in the state for the forseeable future.
 
psycock said:
Agree - we need a high-powered offense, not a defensive minded coach, If we get Smart, Clemson will get all of the skill players in the state for the forseeable future.
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Remind me how well Clemson did against us when they had all those high powered offensive guys when our defense was really good. Watkins, Hopkins, Bryant, Ellington, Boyd, Allen, etc. Seems like our really good defense made their offensive powerhouse look like a jv team.
 
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psycock said:
Agree - we need a high-powered offense, not a defensive minded coach, If we get Smart, Clemson will get all of the skill players in the state for the forseeable future.
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So you're assuming Smart is out recruited by Dabo?

And that Smart doesn't hire a really good OC who recruits this area well too?

Wow...ok. If you're assuming worst case scenario, you're right...
 
gfluvsthecocks said:
Sorry, I've been out all day and just getting around to reading part of the board. One thing that I just posted way down in a thread everyone else already has read is this...

There is a misconception that recruiting wins championships. Yes, if you are consistently in the top 5, it helps. However, Georgia is there every year and chokes. Missouri is not in the top 30 and has 2 straight east titles. Recruiting is not as important as on the field coaching over the course of a season. Once people make adjustments to your talent, a bad GameDay coach is not able to take advantage of a recruiting edge. That's why it's important to have an experienced head coach, with the intangibles necessary to be a good recruiter eventually.

I say we hire Fuente or Herman and spend a million on a recruiting coordinator.
Click to expand...

Recruiting coordinators can't and won't change the fact that neither has recruited the southEAST as well as Smart...

If we could hire both Smart and Fuente or Herman, that would be outstanding! But if we have to choose either or? Hire the guy that can kick butt recruiting this area...we can ALWAYS spend that MIL on an offensive coordinator from the PAC-12...all of them run spread offenses/HUNH offenses and most of them put up a lot of points...also gets our foot in the door with WC kids...

Makes more sense than handing the keys over to guys who don't know this area (recruiting) and asking someone else to sell them to players and their parents...

All of the kids from Virginia to Florida over to Texas know who Smart is...their parents do too.

Can you say the same for Herman or Fuente?

Let me put it to you this way:


If Smart took the job at Vandy this year and we hired Herman or Fuente and they both went after the same 5*, ESPN Top 20 player from Georgia or Florida, who do you think would win?

Smart - Vandy
Herman or Fuente - South Carolina

If you have to take even a SECOND to think about this, it answers your question...Smart would likely kill either of those guys recruiting...and recruiting is what we need most out of our next HC...not to say we don't need a really good coach also...but if he can't bring in the talent, he's making a difficult job even harder.

If this were December 2012, and SOS was announcing he was retiring, fine, go after one of those other guys...we had a lot of talent and still a top 10 team...all we needed was some youthful energy and another OC to rejuvenate the program...but we have so many holes as far as playmakers on this team that without talent, I just don't see many coaches turning this thing around.

Without an influx of talent, I don't think even Saban could turn this around...and I have faith that Smart will at least get our talent level up to that TOP 10 level...and give himself and his staff a chance to turn this program into one of the ELITES.
 
basses said:
I agree, Sparky woods was a joke but we can not and will never recruit with the Bama's, Georgia and Tenn. Never will happen regardless of who coaches the team.
Click to expand...
I disagree we have everything in place to recruit @ a high level,just need a motivated Coaching staff,and a couple really good seasons!!
 
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basses said:
I agree, Sparky woods was a joke but we can not and will never recruit with the Bama's, Georgia and Tenn. Never will happen regardless of who coaches the team.
Click to expand...
I guess we should just quit playin Football,Ya have the attitude of a loser,glad ya aren't a player or coach!!
 
There have been successful Defensive Coordinators to become Head a Coaches,just seems in this era of College Football,Offensive minded Coaches seem to make more successful Head Coaches!!
 
basses said:
I agree, Sparky woods was a joke but we can not and will never recruit with the Bama's, Georgia and Tenn. Never will happen regardless of who coaches the team.
Click to expand...
Are ya one of those people who always comes up with excuses as opposed to solutions?? Ya seem like Ya have that kind of attitude!!
 
basses said:
I agree, Sparky woods was a joke but we can not and will never recruit with the Bama's, Georgia and Tenn. Never will happen regardless of who coaches the team.
Click to expand...
Sparky Woods was a much better coach than anyone gave credit,he came in during a major transition of joining the SEC,Joe Morrison just passed a week before signing day in 1989,and of course the big Steroid Scandal,just a lot going against him,so Ya really need to know what ya are talking about before Ya talk!!
 
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