Just to stir things up here... Gregg Marshall....
- Thread starter Cybercock
- Start date
So again, clear as day. Glad you added the bit about the previous year, because you know, it really helps your argument. LOL
It took the guy 7 attempts before ever winning a tournament game. He’s also never shown he can win outside of the Missouri Valley Confrence and the Big South. It’s clear he doesn’t wanna coach in a big boy confrence ala Mark Few. He also choked as the head coach of a 1 seed.
Fun Fact, Marshall has coached in as many Final Fours as Martin. Also WSU is in the AAC, which isn't a bad conference.
That #1 seed, more than Martin has lead a team to. BTW the team that beat them, UK went to the championship....
Marshall has been to the post season all but 3 times in his career.
Fun fact...up until 2017, these were the teams Marshall had to deal with on a regular basis
Drake, Southern Illinois, Missouri St, Northern Iowa, Illinois St, Bradley, Indiana St, Valpo, Loyala, Campbell, Radford, Gardner Webb, Hampton, Presbyterian, Longwood, High Point, Charleston Southern, UNC Achville, USC Upstate.
Now here are the teams Frank Martin has had to deal with on a regular basis
Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Vandy, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, Arky, Bama, Mizzou, Kansas, Texas, Iowa St, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas Am etc.
Now let’s see how Marshall does now that they’re in a confrence with teams that actually have a pulse.
Based on all of the jobs Marshall has reportedly turned down it looks like he’s not interested in playing in a legitimate confrence.
Drake, Southern Illinois, Missouri St, Northern Iowa, Illinois St, Bradley, Indiana St, Valpo, Loyala, Campbell, Radford, Gardner Webb, Hampton, Presbyterian, Longwood, High Point, Charleston Southern, UNC Achville, USC Upstate.
Now here are the teams Frank Martin has had to deal with on a regular basis
Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Vandy, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, Arky, Bama, Mizzou, Kansas, Texas, Iowa St, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas Am etc.
Now let’s see how Marshall does now that they’re in a confrence with teams that actually have a pulse.
Based on all of the jobs Marshall has reportedly turned down it looks like he’s not interested in playing in a legitimate confrence.
Exactly the same thing those who don't like Marshall said when he went from Winthrop to Wichita State....exactly. If you actually read about his philosophy and what he looks for, you will notice he is very particular about what he wants in a program.
Not that I have ever asked, but I believe the reason he turned down the Bama job was because he doesn't want to play against the school he grew up cheering for. We could have gotten him for less than Bama offered him.
That’s bc he went from one small confrence to another....you guys act as if he’s the second coming of coach K on here, when I view him as a poor mans Mark Few.
I like that he is a protege of another Coach K....John Kresse. Also like that the reason Fogler didn't like him was the same or similar reason he didn't like Donovan.....they both recruited the AAU well. He is a good X-and-O's coach, better than he is often gotten credit for.....and he also recruits at a higher level than the teams in whichever league he is currently coaching in. And I know (honestly, knew) that he would have given everything he had to make USC basketball a successful program.
Sounds like our athletic department is relying too much on these highly paid consultants to help us make a hire and not using plain common sense.
Fun Fact, Marshall has coached in as many Final Fours as Martin. Also WSU is in the AAC, which isn't a bad conference.
Fun Fact, Martin was in the Final Four two years ago, Marshall 6 years ago.
Also, WSU was in the Missouri Valley Conference and WS joined the AAC two years ago. After many conference championships in the Missouri Valley playing mid level to poor teams, he finally has to play against teams with a pulse.
Fun Fact - now he is a 3rd place and a 6th place team the last two years. How long do you think the Koch Bros and WS will put up with that???
That #1 seed, more than Martin has lead a team to. BTW the team that beat them, UK went to the championship....
It does not matter where your team is ranked if you get in the tourney. Being #1 ranked just means his team choked.. And no, BTW, the team that beat them was not Kentucky, but Louisville.
Marshall has been to the post season all but 3 times in his career.
When you only coach in the Big South and the MVC, you shouldn't miss the automatic bid
that comes with the conference title. It's not like he had any REAL competition.
The first six times he was in the NCAA tourney, he lost first round. One of those was the play in game, so I am not sure that counts as being in the tourney.
Oh yeah... FUN FACT - He was 0-2 in playing South Carolina vs Dave Odom.
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Well, I didn't get what I wanted. But I guess given the choices, I will settle with who won because I never ever ever pull for clemsux. But I didn't pull for them - I just didn't watch at all.
I really hate that posters on this board have pretty much turned me against GM. People should support the coach that we have. Then, when we no longer have a coach, let's go get the best one we can get, at that time.
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Well, GM did a helluva lot better at Wichita State than Eddie Fogler did before Vandy hired him. Speaking of Fogler, we probably should've just kept him as coach because we ended up with about the same....a coach who hates the AAU and can't or won't recruit it and is good at X and O's.
She's cool and fun to be around. And she fully supports Gregg and his career.
And see, this is the kind of bullshit that made me not like someone who probably is a nice guy and a good coach.
No where in my response to a different poster did I mention Eddie Fogler. But now that you bring it up, let's compare their years at WS.
Fogler - 1st year- (22-11) - Ncaa Tournament team
Marshall - 1st year - losing record, (11-20) 8th in conference
Fogler - 2nd year (20-10) - Ncaa Tournament
Marshall - 2nd year (17-17) Koch Bros buys them into CBI
Fogler - 3rd year - (19-10) NIT Second Round
Marshall - 3rd year - (25-10) NIT First Round
So that's 61 wins for Fogler and 53 wins for Marshall; 3 post season tournaments for Fogler versus Marshall's one at the same school for their first three years. I listed CBI just for you to make you feel better, but since you have to pay to get in, then it's not really a reward.
You really can't compare other years, because Fogler got hired away to a big time school.
BS? Fogler inherited a loaded team from Gene Smithson...one of the best coaches in WSU history. He should've won immediately. Don't believe me....look at the team he inherited and what they did the previous year.
Marshall wasn't as fortunate following Turgeon....yet still built a powerhouse in the conference he was playing in....same as he did at Winthrop.
Sometimes you have to look behind the numbers.
You brought it up, I didn't. You made the statement, I just supplied the facts.
Success is more than plain numbers....success is completely rebuilding a program and then taking to heights it has never seen. Seems you want to give credit to Fogler for what Smithson built.
A couple of other things: First. There is no doubt that both of us want what is best for USC basketball and I have supported Martin (especially over the past 2/3 years). But at some point you've got to determine whether it is working....he rightly will get another year (maybe more). But he has to start showing consistent success that he thus far hasn't.
Second. I will always defend my friends....or more accurately in this case, friends of my wife. I am fortunate to have gotten to know Gregg a little bit over the years thanks to Lynn's and my wife's friendship and truly believe he will be a success regardless of where he goes. But don't doubt that I will defend him on this or any other board.
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Laughably, the only coach among our last four that didn't have a losing record against Clemson was.....drum roll....Darrin Horn.
Again, I didn't bring Fogler's name up. You did. I just compared their first three years at the same school, and the record shows that Fogler had a better record compared to the first three years of Greg Marshall.
If you don't like facts, don't bring sh*t into my reply to a different poster. Everything that I have written is fact.
Have a nice day...
By your facts, Martin is no better than either Fogler or Odom...in fact slightly worse than the "Warchest of Credibility." Just the facts, Ma'am.
And to whom you posted your reply makes no difference, you posted it on a public forum.
Have a nice evening.
But Frank Martin is the coach at South Carolina. Gregg Marshall is not.
And "The Warchest of Credibility" - 2 - Gregg Marshall - 0
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The only person, coach, cheerleader, whatever that I have ever pulled for at Dook is Zion.
Everybody hates UNC, but it was Dook that caused South Carolina to pull out of the ACC.
Hurley is still the same punk that he was at Dook. Dawkins is probably OK, but if he came here, he would be gone at the drop of a hat when K retires.
I would rather have (ATTENTION @rogue cock) Gregg Marshall than either of those guys.
Hey @rogue cock... I understand you pulling for and defending your friend (or wife's friends husband, or whatever). Anytime you have a personal relationship with someone, you are naturally going to support them. And while you keep saying that Gregg would have came here when we hired Martin, I was told his agent said no when we told him what our figure was. He was already making more at WS than we were willing to pay, and even if we ponied up to match his salary, WS was going to make it impossible for him to leave.
You are right, we both want what is best for Gamecock basketball. But, I am old school and think you support a coach until the person in control (Tanner) of said coach says he should no longer be our coach. Too many people on this board bad mouth Frank, because they just don't like his style of coaching. Yes, some recruits don't like his style of coaching. I understand that. But some kids don't like Roy Williams, Mike K, or Calipari. That's why they get a couple of one and dones and not five each year.
And people bad mouthing Frank on here are just as much a part of the recruiting process as any other factor. Kids read message boards now days. Parents read message boards, too. We aren't helping Frank at all with recruiting. Heck, even when Thornwell said something about fans not filling up the CLA and how much it affected recruiting, our "fans" attacked him, too. Yes, Frank does need to get a local (South Carolina) good recruit. That will help fill the CLA (re: A'ja Wilson).
But he can't get them if he "leads" for them and the last minute they take off to Alabama without ever making a visit. (Isn't that strange???)
I know that Gregg Marshall is a good coach. But he is not "our" coach. He is your friend, and you defend him. I am just tired of every time we lose a game or 2 it's fire Frank - hire Gregg Marshall.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted to try to explain my position as you did earlier in the quote above. Thanks.
You think what is said on this board is hurting our recruiting? Really? That is a stretch to say the least.
If you read what I said I do think Coach Martin should get next year to see how he does with Lawson and others. But he needs to make the tournament or we either decide once every 8 years is good enough or we go a different direction.
Those criticizing Marshall for not winning NCAA games at Winthrop and saying he was at small school like that made it easier to get in, well he had to win his conference tournament to get in and he did that how many times? And how many times have they won since he left.
Martin is his own worst enemy with his behavior on the side line. You can say kids need to get tougher but they are not knocking the doors down to play for him and his constant rants and stare down of players does not help his recruiting.
I'm to the point that I hope Marshall is offered the job and accepts it.
Win/Win for FGF.
Greggg builds a winner, Carolina finally has a good basketball program.
Greggg loses, we can finally be rid of the Marshall Mafia here who think the sun rises off his feet.
Win/Win for FGF.
Greggg builds a winner, Carolina finally has a good basketball program.
Greggg loses, we can finally be rid of the Marshall Mafia here who think the sun rises off his feet.
Basketball is KING at Wichita St. Men's BB is fourth on the list of athletic priorities here... We aren't getting a guy like him.
Fine, but you have to hire someone else if he turns it down. You can't have a sitting head coach and have the media reporting on you offering other guys. I feel your pain though, it gets old.
In the 2014 They were a #1 seed and lost to #8 seeded Kentucky, in 2013 as a #9 seed they lost to #1 Louisville.
It's easy to discount what he accomplished since they were at smaller schools, yet, he has accomplished a fair amount. BTW when he came into the MVC it was a solid league, with Northern Iowa and Creighton was still in the league at the time.
BTW I really have not advocated for Marshall, said he would be fine, but would not be my first choice.
I will be honest though, at this point Marshall is a guy who would seemingly bring most of the fan base back together. Truth be told Martin was never an over popular hire, and the rift in the fan base has only grown deeper and deeper. Everyone wants our teams to be successful, the in fighting is just crazy.
I will be honest though, at this point Marshall is a guy who would seemingly bring most of the fan base back together. Truth be told Martin was never an over popular hire, and the rift in the fan base has only grown deeper and deeper. Everyone wants our teams to be successful, the in fighting is just crazy.
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Marshall is having, in all likelyhood, a hall of fame career. He’s a great coach that has made great career decisions. The timing was just never right with USC.
When he really wanted the job, USC big-timed him and hired Odom. USC kept Odom one year too long, and Marshall went to WSU. When Horn was hired he was one year into his WSU career and it wasn’t really an option for either. When Martin was hired Marshall big-timed USC saying he wasn’t going to take a pay cut to come to Columbia (rightfully so - who would take a pay cut to leave a well-oiled machine for a train wreck?).
It just seems that it was never meant to be - by the time USC would have him, he had outgrown the job. And unfortunately, until we get a coach that has sustained success, he’s going to be one of those “what if’s” that is always talked about by our fan base (like the Trailblazers talking about picking Bowie over Jordan).
When he really wanted the job, USC big-timed him and hired Odom. USC kept Odom one year too long, and Marshall went to WSU. When Horn was hired he was one year into his WSU career and it wasn’t really an option for either. When Martin was hired Marshall big-timed USC saying he wasn’t going to take a pay cut to come to Columbia (rightfully so - who would take a pay cut to leave a well-oiled machine for a train wreck?).
It just seems that it was never meant to be - by the time USC would have him, he had outgrown the job. And unfortunately, until we get a coach that has sustained success, he’s going to be one of those “what if’s” that is always talked about by our fan base (like the Trailblazers talking about picking Bowie over Jordan).
It feels like they have beaten us in a lot of years that we had better basketball teams than them. Heck, the year we went 15-1 in the SEC we lost to them. The year we went to the Final 4, we lost to them. I think it hurts us playing them in December and wish we could play the game later in the season.
1) He moved up a league. It will take him a few years to recruit to the higher level of competition. Imagine how good we would be if we suddenly moved into the old big east. We can't win consistently in a league where most teams don't care about basketball.
2) You are wrong . He lost by 2 to KENTUCKY in a great game. Kentucky lost in the national title game in close game to Uconn. So if losing by two to the national title runner up in choking. Please let us choke!
3) He didn't have any competition because HE DOMINATED HIS LEAGUE. You know against teams that have similar resources. With 7 at large bids given to the SEC we couldn't make the NCAAs or the NIT.
Until the recent upswing in SEC basketball. The difference has not been that great. Since FM arrived at USC we've been on average in the 6th toughest league. Wichita St has been in the 9th.
FM 129-106 (56-70 in conference) (1 NCAA, 1 NIT, 1 Final 4, 0 titles, (6th toughest league)
GM 198-50 (104-22 in conference) (6 NCAAs, 1 NIT, 1 Final 4, 6 conference titles, (9th toughest league)) including winning the conference championship and tournament championship when the MVC was rated higher than the SEC.
By every measurable he has vastly outperformed our program and our coach. Even accounting for a "weak league"
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