Martin,Muschamp and Kingston...

[hobcawcreekcock]

No one with 2 functioning brain cells would count the first few years of Frank Martins tenure as needing to make the NCAA tournament.

Unfortunately 2 functioning brain cells isn’t a prerequisite here.

So, subtracting the first two years of Martin's tenure, we're five and 2/3 seasons with him realistically. He inherited a shit show from Darin I'm Over My Head Horn. I'd say his first two years he over achieved with what he had to work with. Since then, it's been a roller coaster ride. Not sure we can get better, but his results, other than the wonderful FF run, have been less than stellar.

 

[A_F_Deerhunter]

Muschamp, Kingston and Martin in that order.

RT, Muschamp, Kingston and Martin in that order.

 

[sclawman77]

Nah.

Muschamp, yes. But only because the president and BOT will have to pull the trigger to placate disgruntled donors if he has another bad year. Tanner believes in Muschamp and will not fire him.

I'd be surprised if Martin didn't get a raise and possibly an extension. It's just how we roll.

Kingston has time.

Tanner believes in all his coaches because finding replacements is more stressful and his track record is poor.

 

[FORKCOCK]

It hurts my heart to say this but it doesn’t matter . In my opinion we are back in the 80s and 90s where the admin and the fanbase are just ok with Mediocrity. It sucks but it’s true . I don’t think any of them are going anywhere because our expectations are not that of a winning culture . Until we quit spending $$ nothing will change .

BS- nobody is ok with or wants mediocrity it is just all Carolina has been able to obtain historically... The solution is the exact opposite of what your said we need to start SPENDING money. The top recruiting (and the ones that are competing for championships) football programs spend 2-3 times what we do on recruiting. Not being an AD or head coach myself I won’t get into how exactly we should do it but one suggestion is boosting our back office personnel. Bama and clemsun both have teams of analysts and research assistants manning entire departments to manage recruiting and analyze up coming opponents- these are entire departments we do not even have. Our coach doesn’t take advice from others well. That would be fine if he were winning on his own. At 4-8 he should be begging anyone who ever played the game to give him their take on things.

Basketball has never been good consistently and until we play the recruiting game the way it is done in college basketball- reserve ourselves to just flat out cheating, lying, paying players and getting in bed with big time shoe companies- it never will be good.

Those two sports are mostly an issue of not attracting the right level of talent. FB recruiting is close already...

BASEBALL? We still recruit among the nation's elite... MLB is generally our biggest competitor for talent. The only explanation is that coaching has been subpar. No way we should have lost to NW this past weekend. That was an awful job of execution all around.

Many of these back office people are young and are active on sites like this one. You know what their mission is. Unfortunately, the mods here let it go. Tigernet is quite the opposite. Over time, if a poster's comments aren't "liked" at a pretty high percentage, the poster is banned and they file your IP address.

 

[gr8spur]

I thought their names were Moe, Shimp, and Curly.

 

[OldWiseCock]

If I had to rank them:
1. Muschamp—football under the biggest microscope
2. Tanner—if Muschamp doesn’t go well it puts the heat on the AD
3. Kingston—he’s only got 2 years under his belt but another year like last year and that seat gets hot in a hurry.
4. Martin—of all of the above the one that could land the same gig elsewhere if things went south. Plus he can still make the tournament this season.

If we end up replacing even 2 of them over the next 12 months Tanner should have to go as well. For that reason, I don't think anyone gets fired this year or next. I would not look for change until 2022 or beyond.

 

[Joelmoo2]

We need a better AD that can sell our program the way Hyman and McGee did (God rest his soul)

 

[atl-cock]

If we repeat our SEC performance in baseball from last year Kingston's seat should look like the sun. Say what you want, the baseball facilities here are second to none. If you can't make the NCAA tournament nearly every year, then you can't coach.

We may be second to LSU and/or Arky (that might be third), BUT NOT BY MUCH.

 

[atl-cock]

Many of these back office people are young and are active on sites like this one. You know what their mission is. Unfortunately, the mods here let it go. Tigernet is quite the opposite. Over time, if a poster's comments aren't "liked" at a pretty high percentage, the poster is banned and they file your IP address.

Speaks well for us, poorly for them.

 

[uscedge21]

Ray should be at the top of that list.

I pointed this out in another thread. Tanner should name himself as head baseball coach. Get himself approved for a contract for any amount he wants. That would solve one of the issues. Then we get a qualified AD and let him handle the other two coaches. Pretty simple......

 

[SOSUSC]

Y’all just wanna fire every damn body. How bought you get behind and support your coaches, teams and school.

You got it all wrong. These hires and buyouts simply suggest the obvious - that the AD has created these situations. So many bad outcomes. The results are mediocre to say the least.

Don’t blame the fans. The poor fans are screaming in despair. Blame the genius who put us in this position and spent the money unwisely. RT is simply in over his head. Just has no business acumen. Maybe a great baseball coach, but a sub par AD.

 

[uscnoklahoma2]

We may be second to LSU and/or Arky (that might be third), BUT NOT BY MUCH.

We are probably around 3-5th. MSU is definitely in 1st place. No debate. LSU is probably 2nd and then its open for 3-5 with us, Arky, and AM. Unfortunately, a lot of SEC schools are planning new stadiums right now which means ours will soon be behind the times. The race never ends.

 

[atl-cock]

I pointed this out in another thread. Tanner should name himself as head baseball coach. Get himself approved for a contract for any amount he wants. That would solve one of the issues. Then we get a qualified AD and let him handle the other two coaches. Pretty simple......

Fantasy post........RT is done with coaching, regardless of how many of us want him to return to the dugout.

 

[atl-cock]

We are probably around 3-5th. MSU is definitely in 1st place. No debate. LSU is probably 2nd and then its open for 3-5 with us, Arky, and AM. Unfortunately, a lot of SEC schools are planning new stadia right now which means ours will soon be behind the times. The race never ends.

Thanks for the update. I forgot about Ole Miss State.

UF was supposed to be constructing a new stadium after the Gators won the national championship a few years ago. And UK just opened a new stadium a year or two ago.

 

[uscedge21]

Fantasy post........RT is done with coaching, regardless of how many of us want him to return to the dugout.

Just wishful thinking!!

 

[UGASUX]

The reason Muschamp is still here is simple, 18 million dollars. However, the damage caused by continuing to let him coach could FAR exceed that, Kingston too early to tell, Martin, well we know how that usually goes....

 

[JasonScottinSC]

I say are all on the hot seat. rate one thru three most to least hot and why....I say Muschamp first then Martin and Kingston...what do you guys think?

I guess you also have to ask, SHOULD they be on the hot seat.

1) Muschamp. Yep, this coming season is a hotseat season and it should be. On the positive side, Muschamp has done a very good job recruiting, and keeping his 2020 class together after the stupid crap that was said by Board members AND the University President was pretty amazing. They could have sabotaged the whole thing with their own idiocy. I think anything less than 7 wins, and they'll be forced to make a move. It's unfortunate because USC is not in a position that it can keep changing coaches in football every few years (See Tennessee debacle) and while Muschamp was not an A+ hire, I thought he was on the right path after his first couple of years, but this year was obviously really bad. Unlike some fans, I am hoping the team does well this year so we DON'T have to fire him. The bigger question is, if not him, then who? Who could we get that would actually want to come here knowing that your 2 biggest rivals on the field and in recruiting are Top 5 teams (Clemson/Georgia) and they're not going to decline in the near future. I don't think this is a desirable place for long term coach who can be as good as Spurrier was.
2) Martin. Warm seat Right or wrong, basketball coaches aren't judged on winning percentage, winning seasons or how many times they finish in top half of the conference. If they were, Frank would be fine, because those numbers are pretty good when compared to most of our men's basketball history. Right or wrong, basketball coaches are judge on how many NCAA Tournaments they go to. Frank has 1, and his team definitely got screwed one other year. A bunch of 18 or 20-win seasons with out NCAA Tournament just won't cut it. THE BIG MISTAKE here was that members of the BOARD of Trustees were the ones who forced Ray to sign him to a long term deal during the Final Four year right then and there. So, I don't put that on Ray. Also, most people know that Frank has applied for a couple of other jobs in the last few years (I think it was UCONN and Cincy?). I like Frank, but I just wish the team could not fall apart in November and December, because they do a good job of competing most years in conference play.
3) Kingston. Not a warm seat. USC baseball is not currently one of the teams talked about for the College World Series. We are many years removed from that. That's not Kingston's fault. He got to the Super Regionals in year one, and last year was a disaster due to injuries (9 pitchers injured at one point? You can't win like that). This year he had a good class, and he'll need another good class as well. With limits on scholarships it's a lot harder to get good fast in college baseball. That's why smaller college teams can compete with the big boys, unlike other sports. The college baseball scribes all thought highly of Kingston before he got here. Give him some time to develop the layers in recruiting and USC baseball will be back in the national conversation.
4) Tanner. Is he on the hot seat, probably. Should he be? Maybe not. I know it falls on deaf ears to praise him for all the really good things he has done: Kept Dawn Staley from leaving, continued plans to upgrade all facilities, made USC 1 of only 2-dozen athletic departments in the country that operate in the black, hired a good volleyball coach....
As it relates to the "big 3" sports above: He hired Muschamp. Not a homerun but in retrospect may have been the best we could get at the time. From what I've heard, Kirby Smart had a handshake deal to come here, and by the time the powers that be could come back with the offer to his liking, Smart's agent called UGA and the rest is history. (Also, Tom Herman was NEVER coming here.)
Bottom line, if USC has to fire Muschamp, and right or wrong, they will fire Ray with him. As far as hiring baseball coaches, it's been said before and I believe it to be true: Holbrook was the right hire AT THE TIME he was hired. No doubt. It didn't work out (Just as Holly Warlick didn't work out at Tennessee women's basketball). So he was fired. Kingston was a good hire on paper, now you just have to see if it works out. Sometimes good hires don't work out.

 

[atl-cock]

I guess you also have to ask, SHOULD they be on the hot seat.

1) Muschamp. Yep, this coming season is a hotseat season and it should be. On the positive side, Muschamp has done a very good job recruiting, and keeping his 2020 class together after the stupid crap that was said by Board members AND the University President was pretty amazing. They could have sabotaged the whole thing with their own idiocy. I think anything less than 7 wins, and they'll be forced to make a move. It's unfortunate because USC is not in a position that it can keep changing coaches in football every few years (See Tennessee debacle) and while Muschamp was not an A+ hire, I thought he was on the right path after his first couple of years, but this year was obviously really bad. Unlike some fans, I am hoping the team does well this year so we DON'T have to fire him. The bigger question is, if not him, then who? Who could we get that would actually want to come here knowing that your 2 biggest rivals on the field and in recruiting are Top 5 teams (Clemson/Georgia) and they're not going to decline in the near future. I don't think this is a desirable place for long term coach who can be as good as Spurrier was.
2) Martin. Warm seat Right or wrong, basketball coaches aren't judged on winning percentage, winning seasons or how many times they finish in top half of the conference. If they were, Frank would be fine, because those numbers are pretty good when compared to most of our men's basketball history. Right or wrong, basketball coaches are judge on how many NCAA Tournaments they go to. Frank has 1, and his team definitely got screwed one other year. A bunch of 18 or 20-win seasons with out NCAA Tournament just won't cut it. THE BIG MISTAKE here was that members of the BOARD of Trustees were the ones who forced Ray to sign him to a long term deal during the Final Four year right then and there. So, I don't put that on Ray. Also, most people know that Frank has applied for a couple of other jobs in the last few years (I think it was UCONN and Cincy?). I like Frank, but I just wish the team could not fall apart in November and December, because they do a good job of competing most years in conference play.
3) Kingston. Not a warm seat. USC baseball is not currently one of the teams talked about for the College World Series. We are many years removed from that. That's not Kingston's fault. He got to the Super Regionals in year one, and last year was a disaster due to injuries (9 pitchers injured at one point? You can't win like that). This year he had a good class, and he'll need another good class as well. With limits on scholarships it's a lot harder to get good fast in college baseball. That's why smaller college teams can compete with the big boys, unlike other sports. The college baseball scribes all thought highly of Kingston before he got here. Give him some time to develop the layers in recruiting and USC baseball will be back in the national conversation.
4) Tanner. Is he on the hot seat, probably. Should he be? Maybe not. I know it falls on deaf ears to praise him for all the really good things he has done: Kept Dawn Staley from leaving, continued plans to upgrade all facilities, made USC 1 of only 2-dozen athletic departments in the country that operate in the black, hired a good volleyball coach....
As it relates to the "big 3" sports above: He hired Muschamp. Not a homerun but in retrospect may have been the best we could get at the time. From what I've heard, Kirby Smart had a handshake deal to come here, and by the time the powers that be could come back with the offer to his liking, Smart's agent called UGA and the rest is history. (Also, Tom Herman was NEVER coming here.)
Bottom line, if USC has to fire Muschamp, and right or wrong, they will fire Ray with him. As far as hiring baseball coaches, it's been said before and I believe it to be true: Holbrook was the right hire AT THE TIME he was hired. No doubt. It didn't work out (Just as Holly Warlick didn't work out at Tennessee women's basketball). So he was fired. Kingston was a good hire on paper, now you just have to see if it works out. Sometimes good hires don't work out.

While I may not necessarily share the same opinions on everything stated above, I like the thorough explanations and thoughtful comments. Thumbs up.

 

[JasonScottinSC]

While I may not necessarily share the same opinions on everything stated above, I like the thorough explanations and thoughtful comments. Thumbs up.

Thanks! I don't mind if folks disagree, as I like hearing valid discussions that might change my mind...I just try to put the fanboy in me aside and look at it logically without passion, which isn't easy to do.

Hope men's hoops can do enough to get in this year!