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OT: A couple of questions for you MLB fans concerning Pete Rose.

Freddie.B.Cocky

Freddie.B.Cocky

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2002
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1. Should Rose be re-instated and allowed to enter the Hall of Fame?

2. Will he be re-instated regardless, if Rose should or should not be allowed back into baseball?

The reason I am asking is because I saw an interview with the new Baseball Commissioner and he stated that he (the new Commessioner) will be required to review Rose's case at some point in time.

Just wondering what your thoughts were on the Rose re-instatement matter.
 
Originally posted by Freddie.B.Cocky:

1. Should Rose be re-instated and allowed to enter the Hall of Fame?

2. Will he be re-instated regardless, if Rose should or should not be allowed back into baseball?

The reason I am asking is because I saw an interview with the new Baseball Commissioner and he stated that he (the new Commessioner) will be required to review Rose's case at some point in time.

Just wondering what your thoughts were on the Rose re-instatement matter.
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1. Yes, absolutely. He's the all-time hits leader for God's sake, and a great manager on top of that.

2. No way. For better or for worse, he'll never be reinstated. This issue pops up every so often, and every single time the ban is confirmed.
 
Not only no, but HELL NO!

He broke one of the cardinal rules and bet on baseball. I don't care if he was a player or coach. He used inside information to bet and shouldn't even be allowed in a stadium.

But a new commissioner might view it differently. That being said, I don't think there is any way he gets enough votes to get to the 75% or so you need to be inducted.

Of any sport, baseball sticks the most to it's traditions and rules, which is what makes it the best professional sport...it will be a sad day when they say it's ok to do what he did.
 
Originally posted by pepsicock:


Originally posted by gamecockengineer2011:
Allow him to enter the HOF as a player after he passes away.
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Shoeless Joe Jackson goes in the HOF before Pete Rose !
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This post was edited on 2/12 1:26 PM by bosoxcock
 
absolutely not.. there is a sign in every locker room.. goes something like this " you bet on baseball, you will be banned from baseball"
no way , sports writers ever vote Rose in HOF

His stubbornness and lying about the betting pissed off a lot of writers, if he came clean earlier they might eventually vote him in...now, no way ever


I hope the older people remind younger kids that the greatest modern day player ever,....(excluding Babe Ruth)

was Henry Aaron ( check his stats)

And that for kids under 15, I hope they understand that they were alive ,w hen one of the greatest players in history,

retired....Derek Jeter.
.
.....yes I said it, a Red Sox fan calling a Yankee great








This post was edited on 2/12 2:19 PM by bosoxcock
 
Hank Aaron was not the greatest player ever, not even close. If you were starting a team during his era he would not have remotely been the 1st player chosen. Willie Mayes was a far superior player and would have been chosen by every GM before Aaron would have been considered.

Hank Aaron had a long career but as far as all around baseball players he would not ever be considered the greatest.
 
Originally posted by MorganEFan:

Hank Aaron was not the greatest player ever, not even close. If you were starting a team during his era he would not have remotely been the 1st player chosen. Willie Mayes was a far superior player and would have been chosen by every GM before Aaron would have been considered.

Hank Aaron had a long career but as far as all around baseball players he would not ever be considered the greatest.
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Mickey Mantle disagreed with you:

Hall of Famer Mickey Mantle said "As far as I'm concerned, Aaron is the best baseball player of my era. . . . He's never received the credit he's due."
 
Shoeless Joe Jackson's ban should definitely be lifted. The guy batted .375 in the world series, no errors, had a record of 12 hits.....he clearly didn't throw that series. Was later acquitted by a grand jury and always professed his innocence. I know Shoeless Joe is long gone as well as most people that ever knew him, but as a native Greenvillian I would love to one day see him added to Cooperstown.

As for Pete Rose, I think he should be added just because of all his records as a player. Plus, there was no evidence he bet against his team which I think is worth noting. I know gambling is terrible for organized sports and I can understand the decision to ban him. However I would reinstate him for hall of fame purposes. Never let him manage again (of course that wouldn't happen now anyway), but let him in the hall of fame as a player.
 
a pure joy 2 watch, his hustle nearly caused a forfeit n hot 'lanta...

played the game the way it should.

& besides I've got 2 rookie cards worth somethin'....... his & yaz.:)
 
Originally posted by bosoxcock:
absolutely not.. there is a sign in every locker room.. goes something like this " you bet on baseball, you will be banned from baseball"
no way , sports writers ever vote Rose in HOF

His stubbornness and lying about the betting pissed off a lot of writers, if he came clean earlier they might eventually vote him in...now, no way ever


I hope the older people remind younger kids that the greatest modern day player ever,....(excluding Babe Ruth)

was Henry Aaron ( check his stats)

And that for kids under 15, I hope they understand that they were alive ,w hen one of the greatest players in history,

retired....Derek Jeter.
.
.....yes I said it, a Red Sox fan calling a Yankee great








This post was edited on 2/12 2:19 PM by bosoxcock
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I notice you don't say "check his stats" after Jeter, because the numbers don't bear out that he was in the top 10 of all-time. If I had to pick one guy as the greatest for my time on earth, more than 32 years now, Rickey Henderson was the guy. Even though most people overlook him, look at those numbers.
 
Originally posted by wentzel25:



Originally posted by bosoxcock:
absolutely not.. there is a sign in every locker room.. goes something like this " you bet on baseball, you will be banned from baseball"
no way , sports writers ever vote Rose in HOF

His stubbornness and lying about the betting pissed off a lot of writers, if he came clean earlier they might eventually vote him in...now, no way ever


I hope the older people remind younger kids that the greatest modern day player ever,....(excluding Babe Ruth)

was Henry Aaron ( check his stats)

And that for kids under 15, I hope they understand that they were alive ,w hen one of the greatest players in history,

retired....Derek Jeter.
.
.....yes I said it, a Red Sox fan calling a Yankee great













This post was edited on 2/12 2:19 PM by bosoxcock
Click to expand...
I notice you don't say "check his stats" after Jeter, because the numbers don't bear out that he was in the top 10 of all-time. If I had to pick one guy as the greatest for my time on earth, more than 32 years now, Rickey Henderson was the guy. Even though most people overlook him, look at those numbers.
Click to expand...
I say " check his stats" after Aaron, because a lot of people will say Mays was better, ...so check his stats.


In the case of Jeter, If you are going to go there and say Ricky Henderson was better than Derek Jeter, then not sure what else to say, so I will remain silent and just SMH






This post was edited on 2/12 2:52 PM by bosoxcock
 
Shoeless Joe should be reinstated and in the HOF
Rose should be in the HOF, but not reinstated.

Hank Aaron great player on a bad team, greatest of the era? Considering he played in the 50's, 60's and 70's I would say he he is near the top three just on longevity and consistency.
 
Originally posted by gamecockjosh:

Shoeless Joe Jackson's ban should definitely be lifted. The guy batted .375 in the world series, no errors, had a record of 12 hits.....he clearly didn't throw that series. Was later acquitted by a grand jury and always professed his innocence. I know Shoeless Joe is long gone as well as most people that ever knew him, but as a native Greenvillian I would love to one day see him added to Cooperstown.

As for Pete Rose, I think he should be added just because of all his records as a player. Plus, there was no evidence he bet against his team which I think is worth noting. I know gambling is terrible for organized sports and I can understand the decision to ban him. However I would reinstate him for hall of fame purposes. Never let him manage again (of course that wouldn't happen now anyway), but let him in the hall of fame as a player.
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As a native Greenvillian, I, too, would love to see Shoeless Joe Jackson voted into the Hall. I certainly don't know all the details of the SJJ case but I don't think anything was proven that he actually help throw the World Series Game.
 
Remember when Pete's 44 game streak died in Atlanta?

Not one of Charlie Hustle's finest moments. He wanted McMurtry to groove him one when Pete fell behind in the count.

I didn't like Pete when he played. His cheap shot on little Bud Harrelson in '73 playoffs angered me (watch it on YouTube). However, time and perspective worked on me. The guy deserves to be in the Hall. Note his 25 year ban on his plaque, but let him in.

Naturally Joe Jackson deserves to be in - not sure anyone out there believes he shouldn't be. Why that injustice has not been reversed is beyond me.
 
Re: Remember when Pete's 44 game streak died in Atlanta?

it was gene garber who got him to end streak.

remember when he came up, circa 63-64ish.... way b4 bud incident, he played that way from day one...just happened bud was a little guy, could have been a giant & pete would have still done the same. pete took a lot of heart on the ray fosse collision in Houston @ all star game in 68?? but again all star game or not only knew how 2play the game one way..

I think pete's is different than joe's....... pete wasn't playin.@ the time
 
Re: Remember when Pete's 44 game streak died in Atlanta?

Originally posted by CockofEarle:
it was gene garber who got him to end streak.

remember when he came up, circa 63-64ish.... way b4 bud incident, he played that way from day one...just happened bud was a little guy, could have been a giant & pete would have still done the same. pete took a lot of heart on the ray fosse collision in Houston @ all star game in 68?? but again all star game or not only knew how 2play the game one way..

I think pete's is different than joe's....... pete wasn't playin.@ the time
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Yea, Pete Rose was the leader of a team, in control and a Millionaire when he made his choices.









This post was edited on 2/12 4:22 PM by bosoxcock
 
Re: Remember when Pete's 44 game streak died in Atlanta?

Rose should ABSOLUTELY be in the Hall of Fame. His punishment was much more severe than his violation -Rose never bet AGAINST his team. By the way, I was never a Rose fan,( although I respected accomplishments) until he got screwed over about the Hall. I doubt he will get voted in, bet I would vote for him.
 
Re: Remember when Pete's 44 game streak died in Atlanta?

Yes, right, it was Garber. Never trust a pitcher whose only repertoire is a change up - slow, slower, slowest.

No way Shoeless Joe's actions were worse than Rose, if somehow Joe's .375 was throwing a series (the guy was a geat hitter, but even he could figure out how not to hit the daylights out of the ball every game if he wanted to).

Again,this was Comiskie's fault. COE, you were at the 1917 Series - the boys never received their promised bonus then, nor for winning the pennant in 1919. Ban him, not Joe.
 
Re: Remember when Pete's 44 game streak died in Atlanta?

During the series Jackson had 12 hits (a Series record) and a .375 batting average-leading individual statistics for both teams. He committed no errors and threw out a runner at the plate and was acquitted of any wrongdoings in the series.
 
Re: Remember when Pete's 44 game streak died in Atlanta?


Why he's not in the Hall is a disgrace.

Lsiten, as I said, I've softened on Pete - let the hits leader in, but only if Joe goes as well.

I can't see why Pete goes but Joe doesn't. There's no bridge you can build.
 
Re: Remember when Pete's 44 game streak died in Atlanta?

There's 3 things that will always be... Death, Taxes, and Pete Rose never, ever gets in HOF. Growing up I was a Rose fan, how could you not be, he gave 100% his entire career.

He broken the one "golden rule" in baseball.... No gambling on baseball,

He knew the consequences and choose to do it anyway.
 
Re: Stats say he didn't throw a thing, but bottom line, he knew a fix was in.*

How did he know the " fix was in"?
 
Re: Stats say he didn't throw a thing, but bottom line, he knew a fix was in.*


He knew his teammates had brought it up. He may have walked out of the room in disgust. He knew the general feeling in regard to the team owner Comiskey.

Another view by many was his BA with runners on base. Hit less than his weight.

Its not a popular stance in SC with our native son involved, but where there is smoke there is fire. It was a different time back then. Joe kept silent when he could have spoken up.
 
Re: Stats say he didn't throw a thing, but bottom line, he knew a fix was in.*

Originally posted by COCK of the WALK...:

He knew his teammates had brought it up. He may have walked out of the room in disgust. He knew the general feeling in regard to the team owner Comiskey.

Another view by many was his BA with runners on base. Hit less than his weight.

Its not a popular stance in SC with our native son involved, but where there is smoke there is fire. It was a different time back then. Joe kept silent when he could have spoken up.
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Was there any actual proof that he "knew about the fix" before hand or was it just conjecture? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm just wondering was there any hard evidence.
 
Re: Stats say he didn't throw a thing, but bottom line, he knew a fix was in.*


Originally posted by Freddie.B.Cocky:
Originally posted by COCK of the WALK...:

He knew his teammates had brought it up. He may have walked out of the room in disgust. He knew the general feeling in regard to the team owner Comiskey.

Another view by many was his BA with runners on base. Hit less than his weight.

Its not a popular stance in SC with our native son involved, but where there is smoke there is fire. It was a different time back then. Joe kept silent when he could have spoken up.
Click to expand...
Was there any actual proof that he "knew about the fix" before hand or was it just conjecture? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm just wondering was there any hard evidence.
Click to expand...
The way I've always heard it, they actually offered him money, but he threw it back in their faces. No source for it, just what I've always been told.
 
Re: Stats say he didn't throw a thing, but bottom line, he knew a fix was in.*

Originally posted by pepsicock:
OJ Simpson is a killer and he is in the NFL HOF
Click to expand...
But, sadly OJ was not convicted of the murders.
 
I don't have any sympathy for anyone who cheats and lies, then never apologizes for it up front.
 
Originally posted by Chris20011:

Not only no, but HELL NO!

He broke one of the cardinal rules and bet on baseball. I don't care if he was a player or coach. He used inside information to bet and shouldn't even be allowed in a stadium.

But a new commissioner might view it differently. That being said, I don't think there is any way he gets enough votes to get to the 75% or so you need to be inducted.

Of any sport, baseball sticks the most to it's traditions and rules, which is what makes it the best professional sport...it will be a sad day when they say it's ok to do what he did.


---------------------------


^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Click to expand...
 
Like mentioned above, it was Gene Garber that ended Rose's streak. Pete was pissed and said that Garber was pitching like it was Game 7 of the World Series.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by bosoxcock:
Originally posted by wentzel25:



Originally posted by bosoxcock:
absolutely not.. there is a sign in every locker room.. goes something like this " you bet on baseball, you will be banned from baseball"
no way , sports writers ever vote Rose in HOF

His stubbornness and lying about the betting pissed off a lot of writers, if he came clean earlier they might eventually vote him in...now, no way ever


I hope the older people remind younger kids that the greatest modern day player ever,....(excluding Babe Ruth)

was Henry Aaron ( check his stats)

And that for kids under 15, I hope they understand that they were alive ,w hen one of the greatest players in history,

retired....Derek Jeter.
.
.....yes I said it, a Red Sox fan calling a Yankee great











This post was edited on 2/12 2:19 PM by bosoxcock
Click to expand...
I notice you don't say "check his stats" after Jeter, because the numbers don't bear out that he was in the top 10 of all-time. If I had to pick one guy as the greatest for my time on earth, more than 32 years now, Rickey Henderson was the guy. Even though most people overlook him, look at those numbers.
Click to expand...
I say " check his stats" after Aaron, because a lot of people will say Mays was better, ...so check his stats.


In the case of Jeter, If you are going to go there and say Ricky Henderson was better than Derek Jeter, then not sure what else to say, so I will remain silent and just SMH






This post was edited on 2/12 2:52 PM by bosoxcock
Click to expand...
Outside of batting average what did Jeter do better than Henderson?. OBP: Henderson, Runs: Henderson, Walks: Henderson, HRs: Henderson, BB to Ks: Henderson, and I'm not even going to go into stolen bases, as everyone knows that. There was not a single season where Jeter was the best player in the league during his career. More popular: Jeter; Better? Give me Rickey 10 times out of 10. The guy stole 66 bases and scored more than 120 runs at age 39.
So you can go ahead and shake your head, or you could open your eyes.
 
I grew up a Reds fan, with Rose being my favorite player.

I think rose should be in the HOF based on his accomplishments on the field, and the success of the team. Rose should never be allowed to have anything to do with any baseball team in any capacity.

I don't think he will be reinstated as long as he is alive.
 
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