OT: How to punish China?

[JDishnell]

One thing that cuts across political lines and has been a point that liberals and conservatives are united on is the fact that China facilitated the spread of this virus by covering it up. They went so far as to treat as criminal their own healthcare professionals who tried to sound the alarm about this virus, silencing them and even placing at least one on house arrest. Internally, they've clamped down on internet references to their involvement in the spread of the virus. One recent study estimated that China could have reduced the worldwide impact of this virus by 95% if they had acted immediately, instead of covering it up.

It's so silly. This has become a worldwide nightmare. Societies are literally shutting down and economies crashing. All because China covered this thing up. People in America are dying, at the worst, or experiencing financial hardship at the least. And it's all directly due to one country: China. As I saw stated in the Washington Post, this amounts to nothing less than biological warfare.

Which leads to one question: Is there any mechanism whereby they can be "punished" for this nefarious activity? The world is so dependent on Chinese goods.

 

[GamecockJL]

I would think Businesses would want to pull out of china after this.

 

[ken in sacramento]

make them watch the 2019 UNC game

 

[JDishnell]

make them watch the 2019 UNC game

Punishment must be humane.

 

[classof95#]

make them watch the 2019 UNC game

That would reinforce their belief that Americans are ignorant, except for the genius Mack Brown.

 

[Bad seed]

There is only one way, and that is to stop buying their goods and for businesses to extract themselves from China. As long as others are addicted to their cheap labor and manufacturing they will roll merrily along.

I have vowed to do all I can to not buy anything from China going forward, even if it means paying more. Of course, if I start backsliding a few months after this is over what good will it do? I will do my best to hold myself to this policy.

 

[Elgringo]

There is only one way, and that is to stop buying their goods and for businesses to extract themselves from China. As long as others are addicted to their cheap labor and manufacturing they will roll merrily along.

I have vowed to do all I can to not buy anything from China going forward, even if it means paying more. Of course, if I start backsliding a few months after this is over what good will it do? I will do my best to hold myself to this policy.

Nailed it. If we’re lucky a new “Made in America” trend will take hold except this time, we’ll really mean it.

 

[northGAcock]

That's Gina Hillary. Gina.

 

[ThirdTTrio]

Indirectly responding, so to speak.....Our representatives (The House/Senate - if not through Executive Branch, President Trump) needs to list to all citizens the following: company a through company z is producing or providing this product and we are bringing this home to the American people providing X# of jobs and people are going to be employed in this or that area, and said company is going to get this much tax credits to do so....yes we will pay 10% - 20% more for each item. But our people will have jobs and our competitors (cruel Chinese) can do without our money or we can go ahead and nuke them. Raise the tariffs by 50% or more on those cases and tell them to kiss where the sun doesn't shine!!!! Yes, our greed and greedy representatives put us in this boat....after this fiasco, we need to start walking away from them and now after this mess. Maybe our eyes have been opened FINALLY. GOD BLESS AMERICA. BTW, we need to be praying for each other and our leadership (including all members......regardless of party). This is the worst thing to hit our great land since WW2...and I wasn't here for that. This certainly make 911 look like a walk in the park, so far. And it is forecasted to get much worse before it gets better.

 

[lawcalcock]

Nuke Wuhan. Now they have the Bird Flu escaping the same lab. This stuff is not an accident. Guess the Wuhan Virus isn't killing enough. They had to release the Bird Flu again. Just go ahead nuke Wuhan and destroy all their bio weapons.

 

[JDishnell]

Indirectly responding, so to speak.....Our representatives (The House/Senate - if not through Executive Branch, President Trump) needs to list to all citizens the following: company a through company z is producing or providing this product and we are bringing this home to the American people providing X# of jobs and people are going to be employed in this or that area, and said company is going to get this much tax credits to do so....yes we will pay 10% - 20% more for each item. But our people will have jobs and our competitors (cruel Chinese) can do without our money or we can go ahead and nuke them. Raise the tariffs by 50% or more on those cases and tell them to kiss where the sun doesn't shine!!!! Yes, our greed and greedy representatives put us in this boat....after this fiasco, we need to start walking away from them and now after this mess. Maybe our eyes have been opened FINALLY. GOD BLESS AMERICA. BTW, we need to be praying for each other and our leadership (including all members......regardless of party). This is the worst thing to hit our great land since WW2...and I wasn't here for that. This certainly make 911 look like a walk in the park, so far. And it is forecasted to get much worse before it gets better.

I don't disagree, but Americans could never get unified behind the idea of paying 10-20% more for goods.

I would love for this to become the impetus for us becoming less dependent on China. Part of the problem is they are so darn huge. Companies desperately want to tap into that market. The NBA wet itself over the Chinese market.

 

[heavycock]

Wipe out our debt to them, bring all of our manufacturing back home and/or relocate to ally countries (China is NOT our ally), support any type of domestic insurrection against their government by the people of China. They've been abused by their own government enough and hopefully they're getting enough true information to realize it to.

 

[Dizzy01]

It’s interesting how connected all of this is. The dependence on Chinese goods came when the drive for profit over took taking care of employees. The drive for profit came when it was decided to tie CEO bonuses to stock performance. So everyone is concerned about the stock market and the reliance on Chinese goods but they are a result of our own policies.

In terms of trade the easy thing would have been to offer tax breaks for companies that get the majority of their goods and supplies from US companies and provide tax breaks for companies to return jobs back to the US and not use foreign VISAs for cheap labor.

Of course since we already them the world instead of tying it to anything all they did was take their increased profits and buy back stocks which artificially inflated stock performance and impacted CEO bonuses.

It’s the circle or corporate life.

 

[Fearless Gamecock]

make them watch the 2019 UNC game

That could possibly breach the Geneva Conventions.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

I would think Businesses would want to pull out of china after this.

I think that is the only way to punish China.

 

[NaturalGC7]

That could possibly breach the Geneva Conventions.

Could be worse.....we could make them watch the Virginia game.

 

[Gamecock122]

If none of the above work, make them wear Clem turd urange....already made in China.

 

[CockofEarle]

One thing that cuts across political lines and has been a point that liberals and conservatives are united on is the fact that China facilitated the spread of this virus by covering it up. They went so far as to treat as criminal their own healthcare professionals who tried to sound the alarm about this virus, silencing them and even placing at least one on house arrest. Internally, they've clamped down on internet references to their involvement in the spread of the virus. One recent study estimated that China could have reduced the worldwide impact of this virus by 95% if they had acted immediately, instead of covering it up.

It's so silly. This has become a worldwide nightmare. Societies are literally shutting down and economies crashing. All because China covered this thing up. People in America are dying, at the worst, or experiencing financial hardship at the least. And it's all directly due to one country: China. As I saw stated in the Washington Post, this amounts to nothing less than biological warfare.

Which leads to one question: Is there any mechanism whereby they can be "punished" for this nefarious activity? The world is so dependent on Chinese goods.

Relax dish, a common occurrence with socialist countries.

 

[kamakazee]

push a nuke up their asses.

 

[92Pony]

Nuke Wuhan. Now they have the Bird Flu escaping the same lab. This stuff is not an accident. Guess the Wuhan Virus isn't killing enough. They had to release the Bird Flu again. Just go ahead nuke Wuhan and destroy all their bio weapons.

I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t thought about the possibility of China dropping this on the world because it was pissed at Trump and the US for the trade war and tariffs. I can see them disregarding the rest of the globe as incidental collateral damage.

Not saying I’m running with it.... it’s just a thought.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

Nuke Wuhan. Now they have the Bird Flu escaping the same lab. This stuff is not an accident. Guess the Wuhan Virus isn't killing enough. They had to release the Bird Flu again. Just go ahead nuke Wuhan and destroy all their bio weapons.

Let SEC football get cancelled and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it.

 

[ClemDent]

I don't disagree, but Americans could never get unified behind the idea of paying 10-20% more for goods.

I would love for this to become the impetus for us becoming less dependent on China. Part of the problem is they are so darn huge. Companies desperately want to tap into that market. The NBA wet itself over the Chinese market.

Regarding the lower price of items made in China, it’s not only the cheaper manufacturing costs but also the fact that they make crap. Nothing lasts more than 5 years anymore. Used to be you might spend 30% more on a refrigerator but the damn thing would last 20 years. Now they pump out shiny new electronics that don’t last. It doesn’t pay to make stuff that lasts anymore.

 

[Sending an SOS]

It’s interesting how connected all of this is. The dependence on Chinese goods came when the drive for profit over took taking care of employees. The drive for profit came when it was decided to tie CEO bonuses to stock performance. So everyone is concerned about the stock market and the reliance on Chinese goods but they are a result of our own policies.

In terms of trade the easy thing would have been to offer tax breaks for companies that get the majority of their goods and supplies from US companies and provide tax breaks for companies to return jobs back to the US and not use foreign VISAs for cheap labor.

Of course since we already them the world instead of tying it to anything all they did was take their increased profits and buy back stocks which artificially inflated stock performance and impacted CEO bonuses.

It’s the circle or corporate life.

This is basically already happening through Trump’s tariffs on China. Once we recover from this, I think Trump should pound China with even more tariffs. That will decrease our dependency on them real fast.

 

[sclawman77]

Stop eating Chinese food. But every now and then I love some General Tsos.

 

[FORKCOCK]

One thing that cuts across political lines and has been a point that liberals and conservatives are united on is the fact that China facilitated the spread of this virus by covering it up. They went so far as to treat as criminal their own healthcare professionals who tried to sound the alarm about this virus, silencing them and even placing at least one on house arrest. Internally, they've clamped down on internet references to their involvement in the spread of the virus. One recent study estimated that China could have reduced the worldwide impact of this virus by 95% if they had acted immediately, instead of covering it up.

It's so silly. This has become a worldwide nightmare. Societies are literally shutting down and economies crashing. All because China covered this thing up. People in America are dying, at the worst, or experiencing financial hardship at the least. And it's all directly due to one country: China. As I saw stated in the Washington Post, this amounts to nothing less than biological warfare.

Which leads to one question: Is there any mechanism whereby they can be "punished" for this nefarious activity? The world is so dependent on Chinese goods.

Yet left wing liberals are bent out of shape because Trump calls it the Chinese Virus.

 

[JDishnell]

Regarding the lower price of items made in China, it’s not only the cheaper manufacturing costs but also the fact that they make crap. Nothing lasts more than 5 years anymore. Used to be you might spend 30% more on a refrigerator but the damn thing would last 20 years. Now they pump out shiny new electronics that don’t last. It doesn’t pay to make stuff that lasts anymore.

Well, I agree. But the market went that way b/c people kept demanding lower prices. People moan about appliances crapping out after 5-10 years, but they'd b*tch and moan about paying more for one that would last longer. Most people just think short-term..."how much will this cost me today." It would require a total recalibration of thinking in this country. We could do it. Think of all the jobs it would create here. It would be fantastic. But it would take a WWII type mindset, where people were 100% unified behind an ideal.

 

[Goose cock]

Make everything here and tariff the hell out of everything coming from there. All they make is junk. Need our meds made here immediately.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

There is only one way, and that is to stop buying their goods and for businesses to extract themselves from China. As long as others are addicted to their cheap labor and manufacturing they will roll merrily along.

I have vowed to do all I can to not buy anything from China going forward, even if it means paying more. Of course, if I start backsliding a few months after this is over what good will it do? I will do my best to hold myself to this policy.

Well, there goes those trips to Walmart.

 

[JDishnell]

Here's more on those filthy Chinese:

"Chinese laboratories identified a mystery virus as a highly infectious new pathogen by late December last year, but they were ordered to stop tests, destroy samples and suppress the news, a Chinese media outlet has revealed.

A regional health official in Wuhan, centre of the outbreak, demanded the destruction of the lab samples that established the cause of unexplained viral pneumonia on January 1. China did not acknowledge there was human-to-human transmission until more than three weeks later.

The detailed revelations by Caixin Global, a respected independent publication, provide the clearest evidence yet of the scale of the cover-up in the crucial early weeks when the opportunity was lost to control the outbreak. Censors have been rapidly deleting the report from the Chinese internet."

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattv...aAMuaDrLg7LLCi3K3bBoVUpt39YrlpIAtpklwxHGi8x4U

 

[Dizzy01]

This is basically already happening through Trump’s tariffs on China. Once we recover from this, I think Trump should pound China with even more tariffs. That will decrease our dependency on them real fast.

It really isn’t. Nothing has come back to the US it’s simply slid across the border into Indonesia and Vietnam where they pay even lower wages which simply increases more profits for the companies as they don’t lower consumer cost. Business also aren’t simply eating the costs of the tariffs. Those rates are being passed along to the consumer because again companies aren’t going to reduce their margin because that impacts stocks and bonuses.

There is zero incentive being placed for companies to move jobs back to America and that hasn’t and will not change anytime soon.

 

[Sending an SOS]

It really isn’t. Nothing has come back to the US it’s simply slid across the border into Indonesia and Vietnam where they pay even lower wages which simply increases more profits for the companies as they don’t lower consumer cost. Business also aren’t simply eating the costs of the tariffs. Those rates are being passed along to the consumer because again companies aren’t going to reduce their margin because that impacts stocks and bonuses.

There is zero incentive being placed for companies to move jobs back to America and that hasn’t and will not change anytime soon.

That is not true. I manage all product sourcing and distribution for a $3B business, and I can assure you (at least in my space) that the tariffs have had a dramatic impact to sourcing from China.

 

[JDishnell]

That is not true. I manage all product sourcing and distribution for a $3B business, and I can assure you (at least in my space) that the tariffs have had a dramatic impact to sourcing from China.

I understand this to be the case as well.

 

[Dizzy01]

That is not true. I manage all product sourcing and distribution for a $3B business, and I can assure you (at least in my space) that the tariffs have had a dramatic impact to sourcing from China.

How much are you now sourcing from the US now versus simply shifting to another country?

 

[Sending an SOS]

How much are you now sourcing from the US now versus simply shifting to another country?

Depends on the product. In some cases, manufacturers are shifting their production or parts of their production to other countries, and in others there are already domestic alternatives that are now competitive because of the tariffs. I don’t know of many American companies who wouldn’t source domestically if they were equally competitive.
But COVID-19 might put China to bed for a long time - especially if additional tariffs come. You can’t just move Chinese production to one or two places. The real winner in all of this may be Mexico.

 

[Dizzy01]

Depends on the product. In some cases, manufacturers are shifting their production or parts of their production to other countries, and in others there are already domestic alternatives that are now competitive because of the tariffs. I don’t know of many American companies who wouldn’t source domestically if they were equally competitive.
But COVID-19 might put China to bed for a long time - especially if additional tariffs come. You can’t just move Chinese production to one or two places. The real winner in all of this may be Mexico.

I agree but the likelihood of all of a sudden seeing a US boom is very unlikely.

 

[funktavious]

Well, I agree. But the market went that way b/c people kept demanding lower prices. People moan about appliances crapping out after 5-10 years, but they'd b*tch and moan about paying more for one that would last longer. Most people just think short-term..."how much will this cost me today." It would require a total recalibration of thinking in this country. We could do it. Think of all the jobs it would create here. It would be fantastic. But it would take a WWII type mindset, where people were 100% unified behind an ideal.

We as a culture have changed quite a bit. I remember those floor model TVs that had screens that were 25 inches and they cost about a grand. You were a lucky family if you had one and that was usually the only TV in the house. In the 80s there were still people watching little black and white TVs because they couldn't afford anything else. A television was a luxury item. With inflation, I'm sure those tvs would cost over 3k now. Now we have tvs in all of the bedrooms because you can get a flat screen 40 inch LED for around 200 bucks. People barely even watch the tv in the living room unless its for sporting events. Were times really better back then? With the imports from China, poor people have access to digital entertainment.

 

[JDishnell]

We as a culture have changed quite a bit. I remember those floor model TVs that had screens that were 25 inches and they cost about a grand. You were a lucky family if you had one and that was usually the only TV in the house. In the 80s there were still people watching little black and white TVs because they couldn't afford anything else. A television was a luxury item. With inflation, I'm sure those tvs would cost over 3k now. Now we have tvs in all of the bedrooms because you can get a flat screen 40 inch LED for around 200 bucks. People barely even watch the tv in the living room unless its for sporting events. Were times really better back then? With the imports from China, poor people have access to digital entertainment.

lol, well, I'm not sure I'd point to having access to digital entertainment as evidence of having an elevated quality of life. I'm not sure we're better off for it. Anywho...

These are really 2 separate discussions. The price of technology always comes down over time. Just the way it is. The price I paid for my first 32" 720p flat screen HD ready was tv was more than I recently paid for a 50" flat panel 4K tv. VCRs cost over $1000 when they were introduced.

The post to which i was responding had to do with build quality. My grandparents were rocking one of those console TVs well past 2000. How long do tvs last now?

It's just the nature of the beast. We don't even expect things to last anymore. We've accepted cheap prices in exchange for more frequent replacement. It's obviously more expensive in the long-term, but people are shortsighted and look only at the immediate cost.

Some of this is just the nature of the manufacturing. Appliances used to be bulletproof tanks and virtually immovable. They're lighter weight now and built to be energy efficient. But that all affects build quality and length of life.

 

[coolcock2001]

 

[Wiles2]

Regarding the lower price of items made in China, it’s not only the cheaper manufacturing costs but also the fact that they make crap. Nothing lasts more than 5 years anymore. Used to be you might spend 30% more on a refrigerator but the damn thing would last 20 years. Now they pump out shiny new electronics that don’t last. It doesn’t pay to make stuff that lasts anymore.

Planned Obsolescence...American car manufacturers kicked it off during the Great Depression:
https://timeline.com/gm-invented-planned-obsolescence-cc19f207e842

 

[mavcock]

One thing that cuts across political lines and has been a point that liberals and conservatives are united on is the fact that China facilitated the spread of this virus by covering it up. They went so far as to treat as criminal their own healthcare professionals who tried to sound the alarm about this virus, silencing them and even placing at least one on house arrest. Internally, they've clamped down on internet references to their involvement in the spread of the virus. One recent study estimated that China could have reduced the worldwide impact of this virus by 95% if they had acted immediately, instead of covering it up.

It's so silly. This has become a worldwide nightmare. Societies are literally shutting down and economies crashing. All because China covered this thing up. People in America are dying, at the worst, or experiencing financial hardship at the least. And it's all directly due to one country: China. As I saw stated in the Washington Post, this amounts to nothing less than biological warfare.

Which leads to one question: Is there any mechanism whereby they can be "punished" for this nefarious activity? The world is so dependent on Chinese goods.

Are you going to admit that the Trump Administration tried to cover it up/minimize the severity of it when it first came out? I don't doubt that China covered it up and scapegoated the doctor, but when Trump said that it would magically go away and it was under control, he sure didn't do Americans any favors. If you don't acknowledge that, you are nothing but a hypocrite.