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OT: Kuchar Pays Temp Caddie 5k on 1.3mil Purse

Read that this morning. Stingy. There was a golfer who won the Fed Ex cup a few years ago ($10 mill prize) and paid his caddy $1 mill.
 
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Read that this morning. Stingy. There was a golfer who won the Fed Ex cup a few years ago ($10 mill prize) and paid his caddy $1 mill.

Yep - Not a good look at all. Worked at the Hyatt on HHI and would get a good share of the players from the Heritage event. They definitely pride themselves on being a generous bunch.
 
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I'm on the side of Kuchar for this. The article clearly states a sum of 3k was agreed prior for him to fill in caddie. Ended up with 5k. What's the problem ? 5k for a week of work is not bad money

That's the base for the job itself. It's well understood in Caddieworld that if the player does well, it's a sliding bonus scale. In this case, it was a last-minute temp caddie from Mexico so they didn't have that outlined in a contract.

Golf is all about Gentleman Agreements. He should have paid the guy at least 5% as a temp. Regular would get 10%.
 
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Good quote from CBS writer, Kyle Porter:

"The Kuchar story is not about him being a bad guy. It's about how outrageous wealth can erase the self-awareness necessary to understand exactly how patronizing *relative* generosity actually is."
 
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I'm not sure about this story. Yes, winning golfers typically tip their caddies a percentage of the purse. Yes, based on this, you would think the caddy would receive somewhere around $50k. But, if the caddy makes an arrangement before the tournament to caddy for $3k, but gets $5k instead...I have a hard time being critical of Kuchar. If Kuchar had finished 70th and won $14,000 (in which case the caddy would have received either 21% or 35% tip, (depending if he got $3k or $5k) would people be praising Kuchar's generosity?

Look, I get it that many jobs are tip-dependent. But, relying on people to make payments out of generosity is spotty, sometimes.
 
The caddy from bagger vance only got $5
tenor.gif


Happy Gilmore's got less than that
 
Good quote from CBS writer, Kyle Porter:

"The Kuchar story is not about him being a bad guy. It's about how outrageous wealth can erase the self-awareness necessary to understand exactly how patronizing *relative* generosity actually is."
But wealth/generosity IS relative. I play a lot of poker. In most small-stakes games (players buy-in between $80-$300), a dealer can expect a tip of $1/$2 per hand and after alternating shifts may make roughly $100-$150 on a decent night. Should the dealer expect to make $500 a night if he deals a bigger buy-in game? What exactly is he doing in the 2nd game that is more difficult and requires more skill than the 1st?
 
My guess is Kuchar has limited himself to the worst Temps available. No top flight Caddie will want to fool with him.
 
My guess is Kuchar has limited himself to the worst Temps available. No top flight Caddie will want to fool with him.
Maybe. Or, maybe caddies will simply know that they need to spell out the exact terms of the arrangement instead of deciding after the fact that they made a bad deal and going public with terms.
 
But wealth/generosity IS relative. I play a lot of poker. In most small-stakes games (players buy-in between $80-$300), a dealer can expect a tip of $1/$2 per hand and after alternating shifts may make roughly $100-$150 on a decent night. Should the dealer expect to make $500 a night if he deals a bigger buy-in game? What exactly is he doing in the 2nd game that is more difficult and requires more skill than the 1st?

I'm not a socialist, but yes, I believe so. You if want to head down a deep rabbit hole, you should check out the idea of "free will" and how advances in neuroscience have basically determine that it's nuisances in our genetic profile, nervous system and environment that largely influence exactly what we think and do. Very little is left to chance - including accounting for behavioral randomness....Essentially biological robots.

With that said, if you're someone like Kucher who has been fortunate enough to win the lottery - great background, genetics, neurotransmitter profile, etc. then you should be OK with giving a little back. And let's be honest, chances are if it wasn't a Mexican caddy who he thought would fade into the woodwork, he would have done the correct thing. He would never have done this to an American temp with easy access to the Tour and social media. And that approach bit him on this occasion.
 
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But wealth/generosity IS relative. I play a lot of poker. In most small-stakes games (players buy-in between $80-$300), a dealer can expect a tip of $1/$2 per hand and after alternating shifts may make roughly $100-$150 on a decent night. Should the dealer expect to make $500 a night if he deals a bigger buy-in game? What exactly is he doing in the 2nd game that is more difficult and requires more skill than the 1st?

Jon,read your post a bit too quickly. Thought you were referring to a particular winner payout/tip.... Believe the base should be consistent but the winner(s) tip should scale appropriately.
 
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It's low but he offered him $15,000 more and the guy turned it down. Kinda like the Bird in the Hand. All fees are negotiated up front so the guy shouldn't have anything to complain about.

Unique situation. Not a "Letter of the Law" thing, but rather a "Do the Right Thing" thing.

BTW, that was his agency that offered the extra 15k and Kucher said he didn't realize and/or agree with the additional offer. He's his own worst enemy in this case.
 
That's the base for the job itself. It's well understood in Caddieworld that if the player does well, it's a sliding bonus scale. In this case, it was a last-minute temp caddie from Mexico so they didn't have that outlined in a contract.

Golf is all about Gentleman Agreements. He should have paid the guy at least 5% as a temp. Regular would get 10%.

they did have a "Gentleman's agreement"....The golfer agreed before the tourney to pay the caddie 3k, the caddie agreed., after the caddie performed the job, the golfer decided to pay him a bonus of 2k..the caddie made 5k....there are no rules for golfers paying their caddie a sum of money... independent contractors especially ..one time temporary caddie that he was, had no contract with the golfer
 
I would love the opportunity to be in Kuch's shoes and have to make that decision.

It does seem a bit stingy IMO and obviously not a good PR move by him.
 
Stop with the caddies usually get 5-10%. Yes full time caddies, that travel 300 days a year, pay their own expenses, know every inch of every golf course you play, know your game inside and out, spend hours on the practice range, and are handed a 1099 at the end of the year get that. This wasn't the situation so its not an equal comparison. This guy was a local loop who filled in for one tournament.

From everything that had been put out about this story
- Kuchar and Ortega agreed before the tournament to a set amount for Ortega's services 1000 missed cut, 2000 made cut, 3000 top 20, 4000 top 10 per Kuchar and 3000 + "an unspecified amount of the winnings" per Ortega. Either way no one was promised a 10% cut.
- Ortega was good with the deal before the tourney started.
- Kuchar paid him per the agreement at the end of the tournament
- 10 weeks later the caddie goes Kuchar's management company asking for more money.
- Caddie is offered and additional $15K which would bring his pay up to $20K for the tourney, he turns it down.

My opinion:
Should Kuchar given him more than $5K, I think so and I think I would have, but its not my money and it doesn't really bother me that he paid him $5K instead of a higher amount.
Ortega is using the court of public opinion to squeeze more $$ out of this.
Kuchar comes off as cheap but he didn't in any way renege on the deal and fulfilled his obligation plus tip on their agreement.
Kuchar is the only one who has anything to lose in the court of public opinion.
Kuchar should have never done the interview Golf.com yesterday and given more life to this shakedown.
Its only a story because "people" think he should have paid him more, love to be outraged, and have this notion that everyone with wealth got it by oppressing someone else.
 
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I'm on the side of Kuchar for this. The article clearly states a sum of 3k was agreed prior for him to fill in caddie. Ended up with 5k. What's the problem ? 5k for a week of work is not bad money

Bingo. And I bet the caddie learned a lesson too : Ok this is the agreed amount but if you win the whole thing, I get 10%.
 
Was the temp caddie in a position to offer Kuchar specialized advice about the course, lies, club selection, etc. Or did he just carry his bag? As pointed out above there may have been a great difference in the services provided by the temp caddie vs a regular caddie. Maybe there's a lot more to learn about this story before drawing conclusions about Kuchar.
 
Stop with the caddies usually get 5-10%. Yes full time caddies, that travel 300 days a year, pay their own expenses, know every inch of every golf course you play, know your game inside and out, spend hours on the practice range, and are handed a 1099 at the end of the year get that. This wasn't the situation so its not an equal comparison. This guy was a local loop who filled in for one tournament.

From everything that had been put out about this story
- Kuchar and Ortega agreed before the tournament to a set amount for Ortega's services 1000 missed cut, 2000 made cut, 3000 top 20, 4000 top 10 per Kuchar and 3000 + "an unspecified amount of the winnings" per Ortega. Either way no one was promised a 10% cut.
- Ortega was good with the deal before the tourney started.
- Kuchar paid him per the agreement at the end of the tournament
- 10 weeks later the caddie goes Kuchar's management company asking for more money.
- Caddie is offered and additional $15K which would bring his pay up to $20K for the tourney, he turns it down.

My opinion:
Should Kuchar given him more than $5K, I think so and I think I would have, but its not my money and it doesn't really bother me that he paid him $5K instead of a higher amount.
Ortega is using the court of public opinion to squeeze more $$ out of this.
Kuchar comes off as cheap but he didn't in any way renege on the deal and fulfilled his obligation plus tip on their agreement.
Kuchar is the only one who has anything to lose in the court of public opinion.
Kuchar should have never done the interview Golf.com yesterday and given more life to this shakedown.
Its only a story because "people" think he should have paid him more, love to be outraged, and have this notion that everyone with wealth got it by oppressing someone else.


Completely agree with this. Also, let's not act like Kuchar could not have won without the guy. Obviously local knowledge is important but if it were the golden goose then every golfer would use local guys much more often.
 
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Funny how offended people get when people with money dont do what they want.

A full time Caddie is worth the 5-10%....they learn the course in a more in depth way than a normal person would...they learn it with thier golfer in mind...with club distances and style in mind. No way this guy had that kind of knowledge.

Wonder what if it was you? You think it'd just automatic "oh give the guy more"? I seriously doubt it you had a clear agreement in place beforehand with a TEMP caddie that you would do much more. Kuchar has dedicated his life to the game and like any pro puts in an enormous amount of time and effort to stay at the top.

I just dont think it is as cut and dry as you guys make it out to be. Hearing it all in hindsight makes it seem a little like a cheapskate, it's hard to not admit that but the guy later turning down the $15k to me is unreal....that is about the amount I think the payout should have been in the first place considering the other points I made above.
 
Yeah that’s a tough call either way . He gave him more than he requested but it’s still kind of a dick move . Some people or just more giving . My buddy , who is one of the best inshore guides in Florida , took a father and his wheelchair bound son (muscular dystrophy) out last year . Caught a ton of big Reds and Jacks and the guy tipped him $2000 bucks on a $600 charter 4 hour charter . Guy wasn’t wealth , blue collar guy but my buddy returned his call and made accommodations when no one else would, so he did him right . Shows there are still some good people in the world .
 
In the right or in the wrong it doesn't matter at the point. A pr nightmare which will impact his reputation and his wallet in the long run.

And he's gonna get so much grief from the galleries. Especially the drunks.
 
I doubt it affects Kuchar at all but you can bet your ass that caddy never works for another pro player just looking for someone to carry the bag for a week.
 
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Good quote from CBS writer, Kyle Porter:

"The Kuchar story is not about him being a bad guy. It's about how outrageous wealth can erase the self-awareness necessary to understand exactly how patronizing *relative* generosity actually is."
I like Kuchar. Always have. Who doesn't? But I don't think this even rises to the level of patronizing. Kuchar knows better than this. Regardless of what the original agreement was, if you win the tournament, you pay the going rate that a winner's caddy receives. This wasn't even a good expression of that amount. You don't pay him as you would if you had missed the cut.
 
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It's a dick move by Kuchar plain and simple. Tightwad that will never win a major.

I gave mixed feelings here. Kuch should gave paid the caddie the $3,000 as agreed upon, then given an acceptable bonus. He was a temp caddie, and I'm not sure if he did anything of value for Kuch other than carry his clubs. In the article linked in an earlier post, the caddie said that the best advice he gave Kuch was, “You need to calm down,” which was at the beginning of the back 9 on the last round. Well crap, I could have said that to Kuch. I think $3k and 5% would be the absolute max, but if all the guy did was carry clubs and say “calm down”, I might have to side with Kuch on this one.
 
The back story must be that the caddie's family would be in danger of being kidnapped if he had been paid the customary rate. But it's like they didn't think of that issue until things were already public. Kuchar's agent or financial manager is supposed to think ahead and handle things like this.
 
I'm on the side of Kuchar for this. The article clearly states a sum of 3k was agreed prior for him to fill in caddie. Ended up with 5k. What's the problem ? 5k for a week of work is not bad money
Yeah maybe the caddie and Belk can hook up and go drive team
 
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