OT: Lawrence > Burrow?

[JDishnell]

Was listening to ESPN radio and they were saying that, even on the heels of the title game, NFL scouts still uniformly view Lawrence as the superior QB prospect to Burrow. Whoever it was talking (forget now), said he was quoting several NFL scouts and that, even though Lawrence looked rough in the title game and had an overall down 2019, they are still drooling over his skill set. Then they set about debating it. This somewhat baffles me.

If it's possible (and it probably is not) to assess Lawrence independently of his association with Clemson, what about his skill set makes him such a tantalizing prospect? Burrow just went out and threw 60 TD to just 6 int. There's no word to adequately describe that. He repeatedly put the ball on a dime on very long throws. Almost like a machine that's designed to do one thing and do it precisely over and over again. And he did this in 15 games...not just one fluke performance.

Not denying that Lawrence is a good QB. That much is obvious. But the few times I watched them this year, he looked ok. Pretty good, but not a prospect I'd think NFL scouts would be "drooling" over.

 

[BobbyFoosball]

Maybe it's the hair.

 

[patback33]

I get the drooling over TL based on arm strength, size, speed, innate ability,brains?, etc

But the way the NFL is trending, pocket presence is a must, and Joe looks like an NFL veteran already. Plus, he already throws receivers open who otherwise appear covered. So he lack a few mph when compared to Brady and Favre, so do many successful QBs.

The guy just dismantled some of the best college defenses and cruised through an undefeated season. Meanwhile, TL looked pretty average all season.

They can argue about the measurables all they want, but there is no argument about who is the better QB right now. TL has never played to the level of Joe. But I would not be surprised if this ends up motivating him to win the Heisman next year. I expect him to break a bunch of ACC season records next year as Clemson and Dabo want a Heisman very badly.

 

[Gradstudent]

Burrows Born, January 23, 1996, 23 years old, height 6 ft 4

Lawrence Born, October 6th 1999, 20 years old, height 6 ft 6

I think scouts look at the potential, and given the age still think Lawrence has more development to go. Always think their team/coaching can make better.

But Burrows was the much better QB Monday night, but will probably be playing for the Bengals who may mess him up and bust him, not a good organization.

 

[JDishnell]

I get the drooling over TL based on arm strength, size, speed, innate ability,brains?, etc

But the way the NFL is trending, pocket presence is a must, and Joe looks like an NFL veteran already. Plus, he already throws receivers open who otherwise appear covered. So he lack a few mph when compared to Brady and Favre, so do many successful QBs.

The guy just dismantled some of the best college defenses and cruised through an undefeated season. Meanwhile, TL looked pretty average all season.

They can argue about the measurables all they want, but there is no argument about who is the better QB right now. TL has never played to the level of Joe. But I would not be surprised if this ends up motivating him to win the Heisman next year. I expect him to break a bunch of ACC season records next year as Clemson and Dabo want a Heisman very badly.

Fully agree. I guess this is why they said Lawrence is the more tantalizing "prospect." One point they made is that Lawrence is 20 while Burrow is 23. When Burrow was 20, he was riding pine. Lawrence will likely be a couple years into the NFL by the time he's 23. It's a lot of projection I guess.

 

[cocean]

Lawrence is good...height , frame, can run, can throw....burrow was good this year...Lawrence is the better prospect

 

[JDishnell]

Lawrence is good...height , frame, can run, can throw....burrow was good this year...Lawrence is the better prospect

I guess this is where GMs and folks who analyze for the NFL don't get caught up in fandom and put a lot of stock into a particular game.

 

[bucketdad]

I'm sure there a quite a few scouts who would favor Burrow. His ability to figure out a defense has been second to none this year. Right up there with Payton Manning. Meanwhile, Lawrence has all the tools of Ryan Leaf. Remind me again how those picks went.

 

[johncockroach]

I spoke with an NFL scout and asked him if he had the 1st pick and both were available who would he take and he said Lawrence but only by a hair (no pun intended). He said he won't let one game change his mind, but going into the game there was little doubt he'd take Lawrence first.

He said Burrow showed the "it" factor in the championship game, when they were losing to the #1 defense on the biggest stage he didn't get rattled, and played lights out. Lawrence has the better arm and is a better athlete, also very poised, but Burrow is more accurate and is an absolute gamer. He said it's almost a wash skill wise and you'd have to think about scheme and culture fit as the tiebreaker. Scout is a former NFL QB.

He did say LSU's receivers won on the outside, Higgins and Ross didn't. LSU's scheme of running slot verticals against that defense was smart, except when they went tight bunch and Clemson just blitzed the house and the Oline didn't know who to block, and Burrow didn't know who the flat defender was.

 

[Gradstudent]

The throw on the offensive pass interference, that no one talks about, because of the focus on the controversy on the call, that Lawrence made was from the 44 yard line right hash mark to the left sideline 2 yard line.

Was a really nice throw.

 

[cockofdawn]

he was good in Roseanne...

 

[GarnetSkiesForever]

Give me Burrow every day of the week.

NFL Scouts will fawn over Lawrence's size and arm, but I think he will be closer to mediocre than amazing in the NFL.

Maybe he will surprise us next season with a Heisman-worthy campaign, but I have little doubt that Burrow will be a superior QB in the NFL.

 

[patback33]

I guess my point is, Burrow has already proven that he can play better than any QB in college ever has. He does not need his long hair to give him strength and power.

So basically, TL has a higher upside than the guy who just completely obliterated passing records in the toughest conference in the world.

Yet we (and others) debate who would be taken higher.

Let the record show, the greatest QBs are usually not the highest picks and the highest QBs taken are often flops. So, nobody is really that great at figuring out, especially us schmucks on this board.

With that said, they will both likely be number 1 picks and the end game (who is better) may entirely depend on what teams pick them.

Cincinnati is strike 1 against Burrow!

 

[SCexpat38]

My two cents.

A veteran high school coach once told me that college coaches look at the tangibles (measurables) and think they can take those and turn somebody into a goodfootball player, whether he is or not.

I think pro coaches probably do the same thing, to an extent.

That approach alone doesn't take into account whether someone is actually a good football player with the heart and motor to succeed. That's why you sometimes see bigtime prospects bust and walk ons and undrafted players fare well

I think Burrow right now is the better 'football player' -- his success is partly the result of the system he plays in and his surrounding cast, but he's also got the overall makeup of a winner in my humble opinion. He's tough, doesn't get rattled, etc.

Lawrence is a damn good one himself though, much as I hate to admit that.

Of the two, I'd give them both an equal chance of a successful pro career. There are so many variables out there -- where they land, for starters.

 

[uscg1984]

It all seems like a crap shoot to me. For every Peyton Manning and John Elway that were drafted #1 and lived up to expectations, there guys like Brady, Brees, and Favre who were drafted later but turned out to be Hall of Famers.

 

[Horseshoe 04]

Why is Kyler Murray so short

 

[Expro19]

It all seems like a crap shoot to me. For every Peyton Manning and John Elway that were drafted #1 and lived up to expectations, there guys like Brady, Brees, and Favre who were drafted later but turned out to be Hall of Famers.

Drew Brees was the second QB taken in the 2001 draft...

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

It all seems like a crap shoot to me. For every Peyton Manning and John Elway that were drafted #1 and lived up to expectations, there guys like Brady, Brees, and Favre who were drafted later but turned out to be Hall of Famers.

Bart Starr was drafted in the 17th round by the Packers, and Roger Staubach in the 10th. There have been several late round QB's who've had some pretty good careers.

 

[JDishnell]

It really wouldn't surprise me if Lawrence stayed all 4 years.

 

[mUSCle Gamecock]

It really wouldn't surprise me if Lawrence stayed all 4 years.

Of course not, he has drank all the Dabo kool aid.

 

[Expro19]

It really wouldn't surprise me if Lawrence stayed all 4 years.

If he stays 4 years, they lose the DJ kid... Lawrence will be gone next year.

 

[BigTomE]

My two cents.

A veteran high school coach once told me that college coaches look at the tangibles (measurables) and think they can take those and turn somebody into a goodfootball player, whether he is or not.

I think pro coaches probably do the same thing, to an extent.

That approach alone doesn't take into account whether someone is actually a good football player with the heart and motor to succeed. That's why you sometimes see bigtime prospects bust and walk ons and undrafted players fare well

I think Burrow right now is the better 'football player' -- his success is partly the result of the system he plays in and his surrounding cast, but he's also got the overall makeup of a winner in my humble opinion. He's tough, doesn't get rattled, etc.

Lawrence is a damn good one himself though, much as I hate to admit that.

Of the two, I'd give them both an equal chance of a successful pro career. There are so many variables out there -- where they land, for starters.

This. NFL scouts are looking at a prospect's potential at the next level more than their successes at the college level. College recruiting works this way as well. It's all about the recruit's potential at the next level, and not always about the production at the HS level.

 

[cockofdawn]

Of course not, he has drank all the Dabo kool aid.

it didnt work out for ole taji..

 

[carolinamyke]

Lawrence is good...height , frame, can run, can throw....burrow was good this year...Lawrence is the better prospect

seriously don’t see how you or anyone for that matter can say Lawrence is better than Burrow
Wow!
Burrow superior in so many ways .

 

[Sending an SOS]

I get the drooling over TL based on arm strength, size, speed, innate ability,brains?, etc

But the way the NFL is trending, pocket presence is a must, and Joe looks like an NFL veteran already. Plus, he already throws receivers open who otherwise appear covered. So he lack a few mph when compared to Brady and Favre, so do many successful QBs.

The guy just dismantled some of the best college defenses and cruised through an undefeated season. Meanwhile, TL looked pretty average all season.

They can argue about the measurables all they want, but there is no argument about who is the better QB right now. TL has never played to the level of Joe. But I would not be surprised if this ends up motivating him to win the Heisman next year. I expect him to break a bunch of ACC season records next year as Clemson and Dabo want a Heisman very badly.

I disagree with this post. Since when is the NFL trending towards picket passers? The opposite is happening. The Burrow vs Lawrence conversation is debatable, but there’s no doubt that the NFL is trending towards the mobile QB who is also an offensive threat to run...

 

[BobbyFoosball]

It really wouldn't surprise me if Lawrence stayed all 4 years.

You really have the tater talking point down, don't you.

 

[DarkCock]

I haven't seen Lawrence against enough quality competition to properly judge him.

 

[Chumpenstein]

Bart Starr was drafted in the 17th round by the Packers, and Roger Staubach in the 10th. There have been several late round QB's who've had some pretty good careers.

There’s a good reason Staubach was drafted late. It wasn’t talent.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Was listening to ESPN radio and they were saying that, even on the heels of the title game, NFL scouts still uniformly view Lawrence as the superior QB prospect to Burrow. Whoever it was talking (forget now), said he was quoting several NFL scouts and that, even though Lawrence looked rough in the title game and had an overall down 2019, they are still drooling over his skill set. Then they set about debating it. This somewhat baffles me.

If it's possible (and it probably is not) to assess Lawrence independently of his association with Clemson, what about his skill set makes him such a tantalizing prospect? Burrow just went out and threw 60 TD to just 6 int. There's no word to adequately describe that. He repeatedly put the ball on a dime on very long throws. Almost like a machine that's designed to do one thing and do it precisely over and over again. And he did this in 15 games...not just one fluke performance.

Not denying that Lawrence is a good QB. That much is obvious. But the few times I watched them this year, he looked ok. Pretty good, but not a prospect I'd think NFL scouts would be "drooling" over.

I can tell you this even after the game. The Heisman is CURRENTLY Lawrence's to lose and he has already been dubbed the # 1 overall pick for next year. One of the things the Pros are drooling over is the arm strength of Trevor.

 

[patback33]

I disagree with this post. Since when is the NFL trending towards picket passers? The opposite is happening. The Burrow vs Lawrence conversation is debatable, but there’s no doubt that the NFL is trending towards the mobile QB who is also an offensive threat to run...

That is what I meant....you have to feel the rush without scrambling just to run...but there is no doubt that Joe can run as well.

Don't confuse Lamar Jackson with all the other QBs....he is a different entity. He scrambles to run...Wilson and Watson scramble to pass.

 

[Sending an SOS]

That is what I meant....you have to feel the rush without scrambling just to run...but there is no doubt that Joe can run as well.

Don't confuse Lamar Jackson with all the other QBs....he is a different entity. He scrambles to run...Wilson and Watson scramble to pass.

I fully understand that as I have stated the same in a previous post. Also include Rogers in the scramble to pass group.

 

[FORKCOCK]

Both are very good.