Playing that game last night was completely pointless
- Thread starter rockingamecock
- Start date
Would love to see that because I looked through several articles and the only way it seems to get a "no contest" (absent a special conference rule to the contrary) is when a team doesn't have enough players to put a full team on the court. Have to start and finish a game with more than 4 players.
Generally, the rules state that teams forfeiting games will be assigned a loss in the standings, and the team that was prepared to play will be awarded a victory.
Dude it's simple. SOS matters to the NCAA in all sports and for NCAA basketball they use NET. We didn't make it one year because SOS was too low and we did the next because SOS was high enough. We had 3-4 "Quad 2" wins that were so close to getting us in that year.
You can scoff all you want and paint things however you want to fit your agenda but the loss to Clemson didn't hurt our post-season chances one bit and it may help in the long run.
Again, there are plenty of people who admit they didn't want us to play the game for personal reasons and that's fine but you said the game "hurt us" and you know it didn't because the "sexy record" argument is false -- it's not 1987.
I have seen that for conference games, as many will have forfeits count as losses toward conference standings as the case with Seton Hall vs St Johns. SEC has similar policy.
But the article also states that it won’t affect Setkn Halls overall record and will be a “no contest” per NCAA policy
According to protocols, it is extremely unlikely any of the will be back.
Frank recorded a video and it tweeted out by the SEC official twitter account about how absurd it was that we could not use two vaccinated, asymptomatic players for 10 days. Magically, the tweet has been deleted.
Well it’s not quite that simple. While of course SOS matters, you wanted to compare our previous schedule which isn’t comparable.
While Clemson is a Quad 1 opponent, as of now, that isn’t exactly how the NET ranking is calculated. Part of the calculation is adjusted net efficiency which is based off offensive and defensive efficiency. I posted a link for you.
I will be interested to see how much of a jump we can make in the NET rankings based off that game.
College basketball's NET rankings, explained
Here's everything you need to know about college basketball's NET ranking system.
www.google.com
Miami also forfeits its game against Duke. I tried finding that NCAA policy and couldn't find it anywhere. Even the NCAA Q&A of 77 pages on Covid policies make no mention of it in the season competition and tournament competition sections. The only reference to "no contest" is when a team can not play....no mention of when a team can but chooses not to because of the loss of some players.
I know how NET rankings work. With Clemson's ACC schedule, the game can move a team off the first four out or the fist four in (not playing in a play-in game). With our schedule, a 10-8 SEC record is going to put us in or near those buckets. When your in those 16 teams (8 in and 8 out), the change in NET rankings and improved non-conference SOS are more important than the number of losses.Well it’s not quite that simple. While of course SOS matters, you wanted to compare our previous schedule which isn’t comparable.
While Clemson is a Quad 1 opponent, as of now, that isn’t exactly how the NET ranking is calculated. Part of the calculation is adjusted net efficiency which is based off offensive and defensive efficiency. I posted a link for you.
I will be interested to see how much of a jump we can make in the NET rankings based off that game.
College basketball's NET rankings, explained
Here's everything you need to know about college basketball's NET ranking system.
In the end, the game is not going to hurt us unless Clemson goes into the tank. Again, the OP was the game was "pointless" and it's clearly not pointless.
The teams can agree to cancel a game. Most of the non-conference games discussed this week were cancelled by mutual agreement of the parties and some may be "reschedule" the game at a future time. I think this avoids the "no contest" v. "forfeit" issues.
Man that stinks. That game will be tough to win. It’s at 3:00 so the gym will be empty.
If you knew how they work, then you wouldn’t state that it’s just a matter of who we play. It takes into account many other factors including the efficiency in how the game was played. We have been left out of the tourney for MANY reasons and maybe it’s that past evidence seems to suggest a team that doesn’t have the history will have many subjective factors looked at
Found a more complete explanation on the Big 12 article:
"The Big 12 Conference has set its game threshold policy for the upcoming season. In the event a Conference game is canceled due to a team not having enough student-athletes to compete (due to COVID-19 or for any reason), that team will forfeit and will be credited with a loss in the Conference standings. The opponent will be credited with a win in the Conference standings. Both teams will be deemed to have played the game for purposes of Conference standings only. A forfeit can be declared at any point before a completed contest, and when possible would occur prior to the visiting team commencing travel. Additionally, if both teams are unable to compete, a No Contest would be declared and, if needed, an unbalanced tiebreaker would be utilized to determine Conference championship participants in football or championship seeding in other sports. The Commissioner retains discretion to declare a No Contest if extraordinary circumstances warrant."
Shorthanded teams will have to forfeit games, Big 12 says
LUBBOCK, Texas — The Big 12 said in a statement Tuesday that teams without enough student-athletes to compete will have to forfeit games. The rule applies whether players are missing due to C…
www.everythinglubbock.com
Inabilty to compete is different than choosing not to compete.
First....my post and my view on what happened has zero to do with coming in contact with Clemson friends or co-workers. I don't even live in the south and cross paths with exactly zero Clemson people.
I very much disagree with how this was handled by Tanner and Martin. And I wont apologize for being incredibly tired of watching South Carolina men's teams lose to Clemson.
Unless we dance at least two rounds in March, I think this is the end of the line for FM.
Baseball is exceptional because of our facilities and our history of successfully hosting regionals. Last year was even more exceptional due to COVID-19 protocols.
Yep, great learning opportunity for this young and inexperienced coach. 😁
Just wanted to pass along the new NET rankings updated after yesterday.
We stayed at 111, so it didn’t help us a bit.
Clemson, however, moved up 2 spots.
DI Men's Basketball Rankings - NCAA Men's Basketball NET Rankings | NCAA.com
Get NCAA college basketball rankings from the Associated Press, USA Today Coaches poll and the NCAA NET Rankings.
www.ncaa.com
edited to add that Colorado jumped us with a win over Cal State Bakersfield
So isn't that kinda debunking this game as helping us in that regard. Games are being cancelled and some are rescheduling all around the country right now. I'll just have to agree to disagree with the folks who think playing this game was beneficial in any kind of way. At the end of the day it's just a guaranted L gifted to Clemson.Just wanted to pass along the new NET rankings updated after yesterday.
We stayed at 111, so it didn’t help us a bit.
Clemson, however, moved up 2 spots.
DI Men's Basketball Rankings - NCAA Men's Basketball NET Rankings | NCAA.com
Get NCAA college basketball rankings from the Associated Press, USA Today Coaches poll and the NCAA NET Rankings.
edited to add that Colorado jumped us with a win over Cal State Bakersfield
I hate these rankings but that’s probably a story for another thread. I mean who really believes Wyoming is the 19th best team in America? I doubt the Wyoming Cowboys basketball moms would even believe that.Just wanted to pass along the new NET rankings updated after yesterday.
We stayed at 111, so it didn’t help us a bit.
Clemson, however, moved up 2 spots.
DI Men's Basketball Rankings - NCAA Men's Basketball NET Rankings | NCAA.com
Get NCAA college basketball rankings from the Associated Press, USA Today Coaches poll and the NCAA NET Rankings.
edited to add that Colorado jumped us with a win over Cal State Bakersfield
This is not accurate. It would be accurate if the NCAA selection was made today but it is not.
Clemson and Florida State for that matter will be most beneficial to our NET Ranking (team value, adjusted winning percentage) after they play a complete ACC schedule. Right now, their SOS is not as strong as it will be once their done with an entire ACC season, including the tournament. In turn, we will be better for them once we've played an entire SEC season and stop playing teams like USC-Upstate Rider, Army and SC State.
Similarly, UAB, Western Kentucky and Georgetown can be more of a benefit after a full conference schedule if they perform very well in their conference. Wofford needs to really out perform during their conference schedule or their soon going to be a drag. Most of the other teams can just have less of a pulldown by playing well in their conferences.
You are 100% correct. I'm sure it will normalize over the course of the season but the reliance on creating the rankings and the Quads to make selection easier is questionable.
Well, you are very much entitled to your opinion and you can disagree all you want. No one asked you to apologize and I'm not going to apologize for viewing things mathematically, either. Remember, the thread was about whether the game was "pointless." As a fact, that is not true.
However, to be consistent, why don't you write RT a letter and ask him to take down all of the conference and NCAA banners for men's and women's basketball and replace them with wins over Clemson only?
I didn't state it was only a matter of who we play. I clearly listed out the rationale of how we are likely to be within the 16 teams fighting for the last 8 spots at best and how the NET rankings play into that equation. Again, the non-conference SOS and overall ranking are going to have more of an impact than one loss to a Quad 1 team while having 4 players in COVID protocols. Our comparisons are better having played the game then not.
At first, you placed an overemphasis on a "sexy record" argument and now you're placing an overemphasis on efficiency rankings. The number of non-conference games < number of games < number of possessions. The efficiency hit we took in this game to our offensive efficiency is statistically lower than the team/value adjusted win percentage benefit we will receive.
I get it. You didn't want to play. To circle back, you said the game hurt us and still haven't really articulated anything legitimate about how it would hurt us.
But you’re the one stating the importance of a 20 win record in another thread. Which is it?
And I get it you think it was better. I’ll agree to disagree. But I don’t think it goes without saying, again, Colorado jumped us by beating Cal State Who Cares.
The whole belief in not playing is due to the absurd Covid Protocols. The belief in they completely put us at a disadvantage while others decided not to play. I believe we would’ve been better served not playing, and giving Clemson a boost at the same time.
But maybe our hand was forced? It isn’t an overemphasis when it clearly matters, which is why we didn’t move up because it’s more complicated than as you state playing a quad 1. When you get your butt handed to you, it doesn’t help. Losses don’t help. That’s a fact. But you can believe what you want. We got passed by a school that won a quad 3 or 4 team. So chew on that for a sec
You have a talent for taking others comments to an extreme that was never stated or intended. I expect athletic success across the board and in basketball that means somewhat consistent trips to the NCAA, success in the SEC AND wins over our major in-state rival. Pointing out the embarrassing lack of success on the latter makes none of us irrational, wrong or misguided. My take on the rivalry isnt just based on this years basketball game that should have never been played. It's been 5 long years of a** whoppings. And if you don't want to read me complain about it this site has a mute function. Thankfully, many in Gamecock Nation share both my expectations and frustrations.
I don't see how you can justify not playing a scheduled athletic event when you have enough people to conduct it.
I would rather of forfeited the Game/ Taters would not have played the Game if the situation had been reversed. Of Course the Game could have been rescheduled. Tenn Vs Memphis Rescheduled.
Lets Just Change Our Vision for Our Athletic Dept. Except for Women's Basketball The University of South Carolina ONLY CARES ABOUT Money.
Let Just Forget about the Goals of Winning, If We Even Have Those Goals Anymore. Let's forget about competing for Championships. Let's Just hand out Participation Trophies. Trophies may exceed our AD Budget so Lets Just pass out Black Inked Certificates of Participation. If certificates cost to much, Black Ink Cartridges Cost More than they Use Too.
Lets Hold ART and Creativity Classes for All Our Student Athletes to Make Their Own Participation Trophies. This is while we Still have a budget for Crayons.
Stupid decision to play. Do these clowns even stop to think. We sacrificed our players.
