Recruiting team rankings
- Thread starter InternetBadAss
- Start date
Don’t even pretend to know how players careers are going to manifest by their star ratings. That is presumptuous and a very inaccurate way to assess.
It’s not about ratings. For example I think Kaba will be very good. I though Rico and Deebo were studs. Just IMO of watching film this class isn’t very deep and the least talented class of the BOOM era. Though there are 3 superstars
I get what you are saying and I disagree. Fortune , Dixon , Amos are good pickups , Shaw can play on either side of the ball, I actually love him at linebacker. Hemingway will take two years to get his body weight by he is going. To be exceptional. Huntley and. Wyman Bell and The big Juco tackle and the kickers . I like this class.
Recruiting
Recruiting ratings a
Stars are irrelevant. Heart is the key.
You and your hyperbole. We also lost two spots to last years class but you have a right to your opinion, however I view the class based on how our needs were addressed. I like the players we got and think they all serve to strengthen our roster. Heavy in the trenches, a stud linebacker maybe 2 if Shaw is determined to fit better there after first trying the TE role, Bell is a very athletic h back type, Powers is an explosive receiver , Wyman is a big bodied tall receiver and the three defensive back pickups are very good. What is not to like about this class?
OK, valid point.
But, this class needs to be dissected in order to show how strong it really is. A lot of fans are so star stuck that they are blinded by all else. And, 'all else' includes which P5 schools offered or made a push, how the recruits performed during their senior seasons (highlight film available for most recruits for at least 2-3 seasons), how the recruit performed in a camp setting or during personal evaluations, awards and accolades (invites to Shrine Bowl, All-Star games, etc), whether or not the recruit was a late bloomer and flew beneath the radar for most of is HS career, and measurables.
For this exercise, I will do what Clemson used to do whenever they gained a commitment from a recruit - they continued to refer to that player using the highest rating he had attained throughout the recruitment period.
So, it has been said that on average a team needs to recruit around 10-12 elite recruits (combination of 4 and 5 stars) to be ranked in the Top 10-15 nationally in recruiting. Right now, we appear to fall short IF that is truly the barometer that is set for success. However, a closer look at this class reveals the following:
1. Burch - 5* recruited by almost every P5 team in the nation, #5 nationally
2. Lloyd - 5* recruited by all the blue bloods, #39 nationally
3. Doty - 4* Mr. Football in SC, #65 nationally
4. Powers - 4* offered by UGA, AU, OR, #228 nationally by RIVALS
5. Huntley - 4* offered by UGA, LSU, MICH, OK, TX, UNC, #189 nationally
6. Wyman - 4* offered by UGA, OK AU, ND, UF, UNC, #294 nationally
7. Kaba - 4* offered by Clemson, AL, ND, OK, UF, UNC, #229 by ESPN
8. Wannamaker - 4* and #270 by ESPN
9. Hemingway - former 4* offered by Clemson, UGA, UNC
10. Bell - former 4* offered by OK, AL, LSU, PSU, OR, MICH, MN, AU, FSU
11. Shaw - former 4* offered by AU, UF, LSU, ND, TAMU
12. White - 4* formerly committed to FSU, #131 nationally in 2017
13. Hill - recruited by OK, AL, AU, UF, MN, TX
14. Grimes - 5*, #90 nationally
Yes, I'm including Grimes because it's no over 'til it's over! And, this does not include Caldwell and Amos - both late bloomers who should receive a bump in the rankings.
So, as you can see, depending upon whom you ask, our current and future signees/commitments were in demand by some of the top P5 programs in the nation - including several that are currently in the playoffs or just fell short.
I wasn't all that thrilled about this class to begin with, but it is definitely much better than it's ranking indicates. And, more importantly this class will form the foundation for which our future success will be based.
Just damn! I hope you’re wrong CC2001. Since many of the signees were camp guys I hope our coaches evaluations are better than the film performance.
Not even close to being accurate, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I almost felt the same way until I broke down the class player by player and looked at how much 'in demand' many of them were. I was pleasantly surprised to see what I came up with. We have had many, many classes over the years where the vast majority of our commitments were not coveted by the majority of the P5 programs. This class is definitely better from top to bottom (especially if we finish in Feb the way we anticipate) than any class that Muschamp has recruited here. It just doesn't possess that 'WOW' factor that many see when only dealing in star ratings.
It’s not an opinion, look at the the numbers. Take the 2 5-Stars out and this class has the least amount of 4-Star players and the lowest ranking in well over a decade.
Yes, it’s great to get those guys. You need superstars and those guys have a better than 50% chance to become one. I am impressed with BOOMs ability to keep them and others in the fold.
But it’s simply not a deep class unless we found a lot of “diamonds in the rough”...which is unlikely
Many of those schools you list as “offering” did not push for these guys very hard. It’s a laundry list of fall backs
And including a guy who committed to another school, announced yesterday that his recruiting was 100% shut down and even our own insiders (CC) have said that the ship has basically sailed is comical.
I get that you are trying to spin this in a positive way, and there are positives about this class, especially given our failure on the field. But this isn’t the type of class that is going to significantly upgrade the talent on our roster. The truth is it’s much more likely that we signed less 4-Star or higher players than we have since Lou Holtz was here and the odds that we happen to just sign a bunch of “underrated” guys is statistically unlikely. We will have a few that were underrated, we will have a few that are overrated
Our guys had other legitimate options, with the exception of Trai Jones and Amos, maybe. I don’t see a ton of diamonds in the rough. Just because rivals has someone rated as a 3* doesn’t mean a thing to me.
As I have no ability to accurately predict the future it be reasonable to assume that my attempt to predict the future was simply me giving my opinion
95% of what is expressed by people on this forum is personal opinion and I know for myself that when I expressing thing that are more than opinion I will make that clear
It should, the teams that recruit more 4 & 5 stars are consistently more likely to compete at a high level than teams that load up on 3 Stars (and that’s not an opinion)
I’m not sure why you have to call statements dumb. You can disagree without being insulting.
I was trying to illustrate a point that this class and it’s ranking is buoyed by a few elite players at the top but in general it’s not as strong of a class as we typically sign.
They are good. Their crystal ball had us at 100% while he was finger painting in 1st grade.
And all 14 of those, plus Hunter, Caldwell and the two specialists will be on the two deep by 2021.
In 2020, we should see contribution from Burch, Lloyd, White, Grimes, Hunter, Bell, Powers, Bell, Shaw and Hill. It’s a very balanced class although we need another LB and Safety.
Chuck, I hope you are wrong. But , I tend to agree for the most part. My contention for a while has been lack of talent. Sure we have some, but just not enough. Our talent levels are showing up in our won/loss record. There is not as much a talent gap as all the middle of the road SEC teams of which we are one. We simply are not getting enough talent to compete with the top SEC teams. Georgia was a fluke this past season. We are now fighting to stay up with teams like Missouri, Tenn., Kentucky and that's just in the East. Injuries have been an issue, but also reflexes our lack of talent. Our second and third line players are really young and the talent gap shows. If we have the talent that some say we have, then developing that talent has been lacking and probably won't get any better unless Brown and Bobo succeed.
you’re absurd. You made a definitive statement as if you had the future pegged. It’s a pretty tired game y’all play. You made a blanket statement without any support. Tell me why you think there are only 6 or 7 above average players in this class.
Question. How could the statement possibly have been anything other than his opinion? And if there is no way that it could have been, why did that statement need to be expressed any other way than it was?
I have watched film on every player in our class, as I do every year.
And in my opinion most of these guys are nothing more than SEC backups.
Obviously Lloyd and Burch have a chance to be great players. IMO Lloyd is a bit overrated by Rivals. He is rated as a 4-Star by both ESPN and 247. 53rd and 80th best player in the country respectively. I think thats a little bit more where he should be. That still makes him one of the 3 most talented RB's we have had since Lattimore (along with Mike Davis and Tavien Feaster) and I think he has All-SEC and mid round NFL potential. But I dont think he's a future first rounder as his Rivals rating would indicate.
Burch is an absolute freak of nature and I think his ranking is well deserved. That being said I expect it will take him at least a year to make the adjustment from SCISA to SEC ball.
I am excited to get Zaquandre White (assuming his grades work out). I think he is exactly the veteran presence we need in the backfield for next year. I think he will help immediately.
IMO Doty has the highest ceiling of any QB we have signed in the BOOM era. I love his combination of passing and running. Unfortunately, I think Hilinski is a better fit for Mike Bobo's offense and Doty may never get the opportunity to grow the way I think he could under this coaching staff.
I am a big fan of Mo Kaba's. I think he is underrated by Rivals and that 247 has a more accurate rating for him.
I think Huntley is accurately rated and will be a 2 year starter and a late round NFL draft pick
I think Tonka will be a solid player for us. Not a superstar but a guy who could end up being a 2 or 3 years starter. I would compare him favorably to a Kobe Smith, maybe a little quicker.
Eric Shaw is a guy I love as an edge pass rusher, but I am not sure we are going to give him a strong look there. As an offensive skill player I think he lacks elite athleticism and is just a "dude", could make an impact at TE.
I really like Rico Powers, I dont think he's a future #1. But I think he can be a really solid #2.
Jaheim Bell is a solid athlete, potentially a starter in a few years but pretty much on par with other guys like Keshawn Toney and Trae Kenion.
I think Tyshawn Wannamaker may be the most underrated player in the class. He will be a beast on the interior by 2022. Needs to work hard and reshape his body a bit.
Dominick Hill and Makius Scott both have some upside, but I dont expect them to contribute right away.
Thats 12 players from this class that I personally believe have potential to be SEC starters. 3 or 4 of them will not make it to their maximum potential because thats just how it typically goes.
The other guys IMO just dont show much elite talent and I dont see them being more than an SEC backup. BTW I have no clue what kind of kickers we are getting
Again, thats just my opinion based on watching these players film. I am not expert by any means, just an avid football fan with some experience in the scouting world (I was a sports writer and basically did what CC and Wes do on a smaller scale). My accuracy rate is probably no more or less than any other fan on this site, but these are my takes on these players.
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I understand CC's disappointment and assertion that this is the worst class since Holtz, despite us having some 10 equal or lower rated classes on rivals.
I think you are ignoring a couple important things that determine the success of a class.
Go back and look at how many times we had 4 stars counting in 2 different classes and also look at the number of horrible 4 star misses. My biggest concern in the past has been getting the overrated 4 star guys who show and suck, or leave.
I think the record shows that Muschamp has a large number of 3 star guys who seem to produce pretty early. Now that was out of necessity early on, but I look for the number of redshirts to increase now that we have some depth.
I have always said for us to be successful, we need RS 3 star juniors and seniors intermixed with 4 and 5 star talent at skill positions. If we took nothing from the App St game, it should have been that they had mostly 22 and 23 year old men out there. Unfortunately, that is the same formula we need to win consistently, and it will rarely be what it takes to win the east, more or less the SEC.
So if our backbone (the lines) improve year over year (I know we lose Kinlaw, Wonnum and Stanley) we have added 5 star talent at Buck and Tackle (Burch and Pickens) and have another year of growth for a bunch of solid linemen. Sprinkle in what we are told to be 4 star talent in Kereon moving to WR, 5 star RB, and a very talented 4 star back up QB (maybe starter), and it seems we have a formula that may work. It would be nice if we had a healthy year at TE and WR for a change. We have some big DBs and will need improved safety play (which we should get) to limit the offensive production of most of the teams on our schedule. I still think we are light on talent at LB. We have to hope that Bobo can turn the offense around in a rapid timeframe, because we have to score more than 30 points to win most games.
Lattimore and Clowney made those around them better. Hopefully, Burch, Pickens and Lloyd will do the same.
and that's all I got to say about that....but anyways...
I think you are ignoring a couple important things that determine the success of a class.
Go back and look at how many times we had 4 stars counting in 2 different classes and also look at the number of horrible 4 star misses. My biggest concern in the past has been getting the overrated 4 star guys who show and suck, or leave.
I think the record shows that Muschamp has a large number of 3 star guys who seem to produce pretty early. Now that was out of necessity early on, but I look for the number of redshirts to increase now that we have some depth.
I have always said for us to be successful, we need RS 3 star juniors and seniors intermixed with 4 and 5 star talent at skill positions. If we took nothing from the App St game, it should have been that they had mostly 22 and 23 year old men out there. Unfortunately, that is the same formula we need to win consistently, and it will rarely be what it takes to win the east, more or less the SEC.
So if our backbone (the lines) improve year over year (I know we lose Kinlaw, Wonnum and Stanley) we have added 5 star talent at Buck and Tackle (Burch and Pickens) and have another year of growth for a bunch of solid linemen. Sprinkle in what we are told to be 4 star talent in Kereon moving to WR, 5 star RB, and a very talented 4 star back up QB (maybe starter), and it seems we have a formula that may work. It would be nice if we had a healthy year at TE and WR for a change. We have some big DBs and will need improved safety play (which we should get) to limit the offensive production of most of the teams on our schedule. I still think we are light on talent at LB. We have to hope that Bobo can turn the offense around in a rapid timeframe, because we have to score more than 30 points to win most games.
Lattimore and Clowney made those around them better. Hopefully, Burch, Pickens and Lloyd will do the same.
and that's all I got to say about that....but anyways...
FWIW I am not disappointing in the recruiting class, I am actually very impressed. But its not the type of class that is going to significantly improve the talent on the roster, just more of the same. Which got us 4 wins this past season.
I’m glad to have Burch, but I’m going to reserve judgement on his potential until he actually plays. Clowney was a no brainer t get excited over because he had already played against the best HS players in SC. Burch has played in the SC independent league which IMO is not anywhere near as talented as the 3-A and 4-A class of HS’s in SC. I hope Burch validates all of the current excitement next season.
A couple things:
1. The reason you get about half the folks on this board so worked up is that you state opinions as if they are facts, and sometimes, like in this thread, you even claim an opinion IS a fact. When it comes to predicting any future outcome, facts are pretty sparse, and things are more appropriately phrased as predictions or educated guesses. I’m not sure you are as qualified to make the predictions you do—but you certainly aren’t qualified to state your predictions as if they are foregone conclusions. I don’t mean any offense in saying this, but it is a recurring theme in the back and forth between you and the board, so I wanted to throw this take out there. I know you ultimately come back after everyone is up in arms and say, “Guys, of course it was an opinion. That is what this board is for.” I’m just suggesting that threads you are heavily involved in, which is honestly pretty much all of them, would be more productive if you would just throw a qualifier like, “just my take”, or “in my opinion” in front of whatever it is you are about to assert. Without that the tone kind of rubs people the wrong way sometimes. Of course you are free to ignore this. Just don’t clutch your pearls in disbelief when you get backlash over it.
2. On the subject matter of your post, in my opinion, we are going to have to get lucky in having a few three stars outperform industry expectations and/or get lucky by having a low number of injuries to our starters for a couple years to get to a place where we recruit at the level you suggest we need to above. Hopefully we’ll be able to put it together. I will say that IF you are going to have to cherry pick the positions to have the high star value players, edge rusher, RB and QB are probably the right positions.
1. It would be worthwhile to assume almost everything posted on this forum is opinion. If I believed something was a fact I would qualify it as a fact. Sometimes I do include "IMO" or something. But sometimes I dont. If you ever have a question of whether what I say is fact or opinion you are welcome to ask me and I will answer, as I did in this thread. I would say that you can assume that 99% of the time when I am making predictions of the future that it is an opinion, because I am not Nostradamus and have no special ability to predict the future. And FWIW I am not in every thread in this forum, not even most. For example there are over 50 threads on the front page of TIF. I am involved in 12 of the 50.
2. I agree with your last statement. I am simply stating that this isnt some kind of great class when compared to what we have been signing the last 15 years.
Evaluations are the most important part of recruiting. Jamyest Williams was a 4-star while Javon Kinlaw was a 3-star. Just saying. The star rankings are flawed to a certain extent, but if you can start your evaluations with players somebody else thought were worthy of 4 and 5-star rankings, your odds of success in filling your roster with really good to great players goes up considerably. We just are not there. We have to evaluate and recruit 3-star players we think can develop into fine players. Hopefully we are correct on our evaluations more than not, and can build some winning records, but it is considerably harder in the SEC than the ACC. All those years we poo-pooed Dabo for ringing up
9-10 win seasons vs a weak ACC schedule paid off for Clemson even though they were losing to us by 3 scores. We are simply going to have to become better at finding underrated talent, and we are also going to have to find coaches who can develop, and inspire them to play like 4-star and 5-star NFL bound players. We did it once. It can be done again. I cannot tell you though if it will be CWM or not. Firing him is easy, but if he is not the man to do it, who is?
9-10 win seasons vs a weak ACC schedule paid off for Clemson even though they were losing to us by 3 scores. We are simply going to have to become better at finding underrated talent, and we are also going to have to find coaches who can develop, and inspire them to play like 4-star and 5-star NFL bound players. We did it once. It can be done again. I cannot tell you though if it will be CWM or not. Firing him is easy, but if he is not the man to do it, who is?
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It is not based on his performance at Hammond, its his measurables.
There is no doubt in my mind that he had to play somewhat tentatively so as not to hurt people (and to avoid getting hurt aka sitting Clowney against wofford).
But I am with you in regards to showing me.
I appreciate you taking and posting a more in depth analysis of each recruit. There is no doubt that star ratings alone can be deceptive in assessing a recruiting class.
The more important aspect to look at when evaluating a class is did it properly address the needs of the team for the future? I am disappointed that this class did not fully address these. Specifically, there are glaring weaknesses in terms of lack of play makers at WR and safety on the team, and I don’t see anything to make me believe that this was improved. Also, we need to start landing multiple blue chip talent on the OL. You will recall that we missed out on 3 4*s that we could not close. LB is a position of need. Kaba is great, but he’s one guy.
Again, I am excited about some of the players, but I also feel that this class did not fully address a number of the needs on the team. It will be crucial to address these with 2021 class, and this will be extremely challenging considering the 4-8 season, lack of in-state talent, the rise of Mack Brown, and the overall competition in our recruiting footprint.
I thought Muschamp did a great job with this class considering the 4-8 season. He needs to step it up even more in 2020. It will be interesting to watch what happens next year.
"Underrated"? Give me a break. Almost every one of the recruits I mentioned above are current or were former 4* recruits at one time or another during the recruiting cycle. So, someone at Rivals, ESPN, or 247 values each of them a little more than you do.
Quite frankly, there is a lot of Top 300 talent in this current class. There are only 33 five star players in most recent Rivals Top 100 list. We landed 2 of them. That fact alone should never be forgotten.
As I said it’s a strong class at the top, but there are about a dozen that will never be anything more than backups (which isn’t uncommon)
Trolls gonna troll I guess. TOS has us at #13 class last time I checked, with 9 4/5 stars and the chance to add another with White. Rivals and ESPN can kick rocks as far as recruiting rankings go.
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