I know this article is a shocker to most of us!!
http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...ina-commits-2017-steve-spurrier-will-muschamp
http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...ina-commits-2017-steve-spurrier-will-muschamp
Steve Spurrier's recruiting left Will Muschamp a big rebuild at South Carolina
- Thread starter viennacocks
- Start date
Interesting to me that even those outside of our program can see it.
While it did no damage to him Florida legacy, I would say that it bruises his SC legacy.
While it did no damage to him Florida legacy, I would say that it bruises his SC legacy.
I hope the national media has egg on their face. They are assuming unproven talent equals a loss and rebuilding. Our recruiting classes have all been in the top 25 over the past 4 years, depending on which service you look at. Yes we have had some guys not make it in or wash out, but most teams do also. This doesn't happen in a vacuum. Our biggest problem was player development. The previous staff did a poor job of that overall. Based on what I saw in the Spring game, I saw a lot of improvement. We looked sharp with few penalties. Yes it was a Spring game, but I can't say we always looked sharp in our games. The miscommunication, penalties after a time out, the confusion of the QB looking at the sideline, the QB trying to rush the sideline to get the play in, I didn't see that. I'm sure if we are pounding the run and are successful, we won't abandon a successful run game for 4 incomplete passes. I think the future (to include this year) looks bright.
I disagree. If you could go back to 2005 would you hire him again, knowing all the fun and victories that would come. YEP! People seem to forget you could pretty much put an L next to every orange team on the schedule Pre-Spurrier. mentally, he did so much for the program and fanbase.
???
Please tell me how to do that, it might be useful at some point.
But as a follow up since you seem to 'miss me' ...
Usual stuff, typical observation, nothing earth-shattering, another opinion, please cut & paste, my $ .02 cents, thanks for asking!!!
Comment on Muschamp? Or comment on BS always bashing money-losing VOX Media, parent of the OP's 'source' material, ward of comcast, run by 'run-offs' previously employed by AOL and Daily KOS?
Speak up spoken to!!! If I've 'deleted' anything it was an ACCIDENT! I've been 'edited' before - but that was done by someone who's pay grade is higher than mine.
What was your settlement from Britney? She seems to like out of work 20-somethings. Testify, brother - TESTIFY!!!
Some of these classes were over-ranked. Just due to the fact we recruited quantity. Higher number of commits = to higher ranking #. Also in the high ranked classes some would not make it in. When recruiting you recruit for future needs. When you have a good program every recruit should be recruited as if the plan is to RS them the first year. After doing this for 3 or 4 classes back to back you build depth and a team that can challenge for a championship. jmo
Agree. I think last years was under-ranked. I believe we picked up J. Bentley after the recruiting season was over. I don't believe his numbers along with several transfers will show in last years numbers or this years numbers.
While recruiting will need a major rebuild, Muschamp has it made in the shade. He works for a laid back AD who will spend money like a drunken sailor if he feels it will help, Muschamp just has to ask. Ray will even recruit if he is asked, he will do what he can without breathing down Muschamp's neck 24/7. Then there's the fan base, best in the nation! It doesn't take much to please us and we will support you like no other if you just show us you care and are improving our program year after year. Will also has a 5 year contract, he will probably get an extension in year 3 or 4 if he shows continuous improvement. In all honesty, this job was lucky to fal into his lap, all things considering.
Ive got to disagree with you. We can put a 4 star player at almost every position and most backups. Quantity wasn't even a factor. Yeah in 2015 we had 28 recruits but in 12 we only had 23 and in 2013 and 14 we only had 21
The difference would be that when SOS wanted to retire a couple of years back, you would not have talked him out of it.
Watson? Compare his 2-year stats to Jamies Winston. It ain't good. clemson was 24-4 (with a 'Russell' bowl win over 8-5 Oklahoma in 2014) and a loss in the 2015 NC game.
Winston was 26-1 with one NC win and 1 NC loss. Winston had a 6th and a 1st in the Heisman voting; Watson had one 3rd.
Watson had 6880 yards of total offense in 23-games (299+ per game) Winston had 8248 yards of total offense in 27-games (305+ per game).
Watson's not only NOT the best QB to play football in the last decade, as clemson fans are saying - he ain't even the 'best' to play in the ACC. He IS the 'best' to ever play for clemson, though. I think he's got a future as a backup in the NFL. I don't think anyone will 'franchise player' Rd 1 draft him with the idea of winning the NFL Championship, though. He doesn't have the arm of a Peyton or Eli Manning, Matthew Stafford or Andrew Luck ... and his running will only get him killed in the NFL ... he's nothing like his hero, Cam Newton. Newton's calves look like Watson's thighs.
Winston was 26-1 with one NC win and 1 NC loss. Winston had a 6th and a 1st in the Heisman voting; Watson had one 3rd.
Watson had 6880 yards of total offense in 23-games (299+ per game) Winston had 8248 yards of total offense in 27-games (305+ per game).
Watson's not only NOT the best QB to play football in the last decade, as clemson fans are saying - he ain't even the 'best' to play in the ACC. He IS the 'best' to ever play for clemson, though. I think he's got a future as a backup in the NFL. I don't think anyone will 'franchise player' Rd 1 draft him with the idea of winning the NFL Championship, though. He doesn't have the arm of a Peyton or Eli Manning, Matthew Stafford or Andrew Luck ... and his running will only get him killed in the NFL ... he's nothing like his hero, Cam Newton. Newton's calves look like Watson's thighs.
Wouldn't be great if someone came up with something new to write about instead of the same of crap? Yeah we know we won only three games last year and SOS slacked on the recruiting etc. One so called writer after the next types the doom and gloom article about the obvious. This team is going to redeem itself because the talent level is not what many think it is. Good coaching and cleaning out some stinkin' thinkin' or thinkers makes a difference so have a little faith. We were soft,under coached and lazy but not under Boom. I really believe that we will have a good year.
Winston didn't play his true freshman year.
Watsons true freshman year he played about 1qt against GA in his first college game, 1qt against GT which was a loss and FSU he only played 2.5 quarters. So comparing those 3 losses against games where Winston played the whole game is dumb.
In Watsons first full season as a starter, as a redshirt freshman like Winston's first year playing, he finished 3rd in Heisman voting compared to Winstons 6th and was the first player to have 4000 yard passing and 1000 yards rushing.
first full year starter as redshirt freshman:
Watson - 4100yds, 35 passing Tds, 13 interceptions, 1000+ rushing 13Tds
Winston - 3900yrds, 40 passing tds, 10 interceptions, 219 rushing with 4Tds
This kid is as good or better than Winston. He has the same vision, accuracly and passing skills at Winston and is a better runner. And he won't have to run much in the NFL because he runs through his progressions then check if needed, and can hit all the deep balls.
I look forward to him going pro after next year.
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"In Watsons first full season as a starter, as a redshirt freshman like Winston's first year playing, he finished 3rd in Heisman voting compared to Winstons 6th and was the first player to have 4000 yard passing and 1000 yards rushing."
What a total crock. OK - FORGET ABOUT the 8-game 'warm-up' season DeShaun had the benefit of playing and just compare their 1st year's as a 'full-time' starter.
Watson 15 games 14-1 4109 passing yards 35TD's 13 picks 8.4Y/A QB Rating 156.3
LOST National Championship Game -3rd in Heisman
Winston 14 games 14-0 4057 passing yards 40TD's 10 picks 10.6Y/A QB Rating 184.8
WON National Championship Game - WON Heisman - Named BEST PLAYER in USA
Winston finished 13-1 his SECOND SEASON - 6th in the Heisman.
Winston's passing Y/A was more than 20% HIGHER than Watson's - his QB rating was 'off the chart' better than Watson's; his TD passes were higher, his interceptions were lower and he WON!!! ... both the NC and the Heisman as a FRESHMAN.
Watson was 'hurt' - so you say THAT SEASON 'shouldn't count'. OK.
DON'T 'count it'.
Just compare their 1st FULL SEASON's.
There isn't 'much' of a comparison, huh?
Oh, and Watson NEVER 'redshirted' ... he's been a Freshman and a Soph ... same as Winston.
Winston spent a year in JC.
Per Rivals team rankings we had 25 in 2012 not 23 & 30 in 2015. I agree we have quantity but we need quality. When the coaches miss on a few of the 4* then you have a 3 or 2* in the 2 deep and yes all coaches miss on some players ever class. Not sure if Jr. transfers are included in these team rankings. jmo
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Actually they are very comparable. Watson had more total touchdowns.
Winston never went to JC. He redshirted behind EJ Manuel. That is fact
Dude, Watson has over 100 more rushing attempts than Winston and 800 more yards. If Watson spent more time passing he would have had more passing TDs.
Winston routinely played the whole game for Heisman ratings. Watson routinely came out midway in the third quarter.
Winstons QBR rating was only 3 points higher. Do you make things up?
Winston won a NC. Watson had the most offense in CFB CP history against a better defense than Winston faced and lost to an onside kick.
Winston had Benjimen as a deep threat.
Watson lost his deep threat in Williams after he was injured in the first game. Yards per average is very subjective.
Take the garnet glasses off for a second dude. You look stupid here.
Winston never went to JC. He redshirted behind EJ Manuel. That is fact
Dude, Watson has over 100 more rushing attempts than Winston and 800 more yards. If Watson spent more time passing he would have had more passing TDs.
Winston routinely played the whole game for Heisman ratings. Watson routinely came out midway in the third quarter.
Winstons QBR rating was only 3 points higher. Do you make things up?
Winston won a NC. Watson had the most offense in CFB CP history against a better defense than Winston faced and lost to an onside kick.
Winston had Benjimen as a deep threat.
Watson lost his deep threat in Williams after he was injured in the first game. Yards per average is very subjective.
Take the garnet glasses off for a second dude. You look stupid here.
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The posts in this thread don't seem to have anything to do with the OP. Do you guys ever tire of talking about Clemp?
Talent is not that bad and many are going to see that when September rolls around.
Good point. The proven become that way when they get a chance to play. Name me one "proven" player that didn't have to come from "unproven" to get there. Now if the article wants to point out we don't have any big names, then that's correct. Looking forward to this season personally.
We won 10 games the last 2 seasons. That's less than each of the prior 3. Do you think SOS forgot how to coach? The talent drop off is dramatic. If you don't see it, I suggest you open your eyes wider.
While there were holes to fill on the roster,mainly wr and qb, muschamp did what seems to be on paper a good job of addressing those with his first recruiting class. I do believe there was a lack of urgency in Spurrier's last 2 recruiting classes but he left us with a better roster than Holtz left him imho.
It'll be interesting to see this year how deep of a hole he left muschamp. I tend to believe it was poor coaching, if so things may not be as bad as they seem
It'll be interesting to see this year how deep of a hole he left muschamp. I tend to believe it was poor coaching, if so things may not be as bad as they seem
To be fair, the smaller classes in '13 and '14 were because of sanctions (hotel+Byrd+recruiting cruise). The minor reduction in scholarships is pretty easy to overcome, but the big reduction in official visits left the staff with little room for error - and they did pretty well anyway (#16 in '13 and #17 in '14 per rivals).
However, I only count 9/21 of your '13 class and 13/21 of your '14 class still on the team - that's the real problem as I understand it.
1st people say it's not fair to compare both years for these guys 'cause Watson was hurt, just compare their 1st years as full-season starters. OK!!!
That would be Winston's 1st year and Watson's 2nd year. BOTH threw for 4000+ yards; Winston 4057 on 384 attempts; Watson 4109 on 491 attempts; Winston had more TD passes (40 to 35) and fewer interceptions (10 to 13). Winston's QB-rating (that year) was 184.8 (led the nation); Watson's QB-rating (that year - LAST YEAR) was 163.4. (ESPN has his rating at 156.3). Winston's completion ratio was 66.9, Watson's completion ratio was 67.8. Winston's yards per attempt was 10.6 per attempt (led the nation); Watson's yards per attempt was 8.4
You said if Watson was 'passing more' he'd have had more TD passes ... he THREW 107 MORE passes than Winston did! He also had 1 more game to pad his stats.
Winston was 14-0 won the National Championship. Watson was 14-1 and didn't. Winston won the Heisman that year, the Davey O'Brien Award and the National Player of the Year Award. Watson was a pretty distant 3rd in the Heisman, he received less than 1/2 the votes for 2nd place the kid from Stanford did. He WAS a 'solid' 3rd, but substantially behind 1st & 2nd place. 4th place was further back still ... the whole country pretty-much voted 1-2-3 the way it ended.
All that dribble you posted bout me 'making stuff up' - 'specially his QB-ranking ... you ain't playiung 'best ball' or 'captain's choice' - that 'high' ranking you said was so close to Winston - he did it in 8 games throwing only 137 passes.
Both were great - Winston simply had a better (and certainly more productive) year his 1st year as a 'full-time' starter - both individually and as 'team players'.
Are things as bad as they seem as far as the roster goes? Looking at the roster I count 10 DTs, 8 de, 6 lb (not counting skai), 7cb (counting montac) and 6 safeties all scholarship players. Many highly recruited, Griffin, Wideman, Lewis, Thomas, baw, Bryant, Pittman, lammons, king, Elder, Smith etc. Defense has a lot of potential with good coaching.
Offensively we have 14 o-linemen on scholly, and scholly depth at every skill position except maybe qb. While most of the depth is young, there is potential. Just because the media looks at us and sees a team in shambles doesn't mean there is nothing to work with this season.
I'm glad the coaches and players seem to believe we have a chance.
Offensively we have 14 o-linemen on scholly, and scholly depth at every skill position except maybe qb. While most of the depth is young, there is potential. Just because the media looks at us and sees a team in shambles doesn't mean there is nothing to work with this season.
I'm glad the coaches and players seem to believe we have a chance.
There was also a marked decline in overall coaching ability on our staff that took hold during the final two-years of the Spurrier regime. That actually included all or part of three recruiting cycles.
This is all I was getting at really. There is not much difference between those two QBs except that Watson is a much better runner.
I will give you the more passing attempts stat...was wrong there and should have double checked it.
That's what I'm thinking, SOS didn't just up and forget how to coach. He just didn't bother to recruit good enough players to win with. He is a hall of fame coach, coaching wasn't the problem. At least not on offense now defense on the other hand coaching sucked. We have a DC for a head man now so hopefully that won't be an issue.
It's been well documented that programs were using his age against him. Also having his incompetent son as recruiting coordinator didn't help. SOS should have brought in Muschamp as DC instead of Hoke and let him clean house. That might have helped with defensive recruiting but we would still have the junior issue.
Watson's a great runner, he reminds me of Jeff Grantz - he just runs a lot more than Grantz did. As a 'pure' athlete Jeff Grantz was as good as we've ever had.
Watson beat SC last year with his legs, not his passing - the 'Cocks did a pretty decent job holding him to short passes - the sum%^$*& just kept pulling it down 3rd and 8 or 3rd and 11 and making 1st downs when it looked like we had him stopped.
He's got some of that Freddie Solomon STOP! (tackler goes by now he's out of position and reaching back) GO! - two steps and he's running full-speed again in him.
He seems to 'feel' tacklers before they hit him, RARELY is he cold-cocked blindsided, it's like he's got damn sonar or something, like a 6th sense intuition.
Seems to read holes like Bobby Fischer used to read chess boards, three moves ahead. It AIN'T THERE (yet) ... BUT!!!, he 'sees' in his mind this guy coming from one direction with two guys coming from another direction and 'calculates' before they make contact WHERE the hole WILL BE if he heads that way RIGHT NOW by the time he gets to that point.
By the time the contacts been made in front of him the opening appears and that little sum#$%@& scoots through it.
Playing Watson is as painful as playing UNC's Charlie Scott used to be. I couldn't stand UNC and didn't know him but HATED Scott, yet I RESPECTED him as much as any basketball player we ever played against when I was at 'Carolina - if you don't RESPECT excellence you're an idiot and Scott was 'pure' excellence. So is Watson.
We just gotta' come up with OUR 'football' version of John Roche to counter him.
You can't 'stop' him - not all together. Slow him down, screw him up, knock his receivers off their routes - cover the lanes and try to pressure him.
Not a lot but a 'few' guys got his arm, VERY few got his 6th sense for running, and the one's that do ARE 'runners'.
Yea, I remember that ... FSU wasn't but 6-6 and still got the Gator Bowl.
Made the most of it, though. Beat a pretty good, ranked WVA team that was 9-3.
Seemed 'a little' unfair to WVA ... I don't think they got a seat in the stadium other than their contract allotment (and probably half of those were resold to FSU fans), it was like a home game for Bowden.
The Gator Bowl folks cleaned up on that one.
Great way to go out for Bobby. He was at WVA for almost a decade before taking the FSU job, and left there on good terms. Lot of people probably don't remember but after Marshall lost its team in that plane crash Bowden GAVE his whole 'veer' offense to Marshall's new coach, the veer didn't require as much technique-blocking and was EASIER to run than most of the offenses then in vogue - pretty much only WVA and Oklahoma were running that offense in the early 70's.
That would be like clemson or South Carolina just giving their playbook to Wofford and saying "here, run this - it's easier to coach that what you're doing and it works."
I never thought Bowden got enough credit for what he did to help Marshall after that tragedy.
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