Either they get the hammer or they get a slap on the wrist , radio said 82% says it's goin to be a slap on the wrist, if this happens what does that mean to everyone else , go ahead cheat and if you get caught you will only get s slap on the ass ???
Tarholes decision tomorrow
- Thread starter Cocky_11
- Start date
You say wait and see before criticizing and then you pronounce what is going to happen. Which of those directives should I follow tonight?
I actually think your last sentence is why they are going to get nailed. They were too arrogant...similar to the way SoCal handled it.
UNC actually cooperated the first time around, even hired their own investigator and turned over his findings to the NCAA, which was stupid. When the NCAA came around the 2nd time, they were not as cooperative.
while nothing would please me more tomorrow than a hammer...the NCAA will at best spank them gently... i.e.. 1 season tourney ban or something small
Even Carol Folk admits the fake classes go back to the late 1980's. And yes, the classes were not just easy classes...they were FAKE. There was no professor, no meeting place, etc. Signatures of actual professors were FORGED on grade sheets. Read the emails. If the Holes get anything less than the death penalty then they got away with the biggest cheating scheme in NCAA history. This was not two people in the AfroStudies department...it was everybody from the BOT to the janitor that planned and executed this massive fraud. I can only hope the NCAA has the courage to do their jobs.
That part's actually not true. The administration turned a blind eye to the AFAM classes and didn't want to know what was going on. It's the same thing with Roy Williams. He told the assistants to handle it, and that way he could claim he didn't know about the classes or the department.
They should get hammered but I`ll believe it when I see it. They will protect them like the Democrats protected Harvey Weinstein.
I think most reports show Roy did not like the classes and stopped players from taking them.....Roy did not condone those classes, at least per this report.
"Asked once why his basketball players at North Carolina gradually stopped enrolling in no-show Afro- and African-American Studies courses, coach Roy Williams said maybe they started to have other interests.
“Maybe guys, girls, just decided not to take certain classes,” Williams said two years ago when asked directly about the no-show AFAM courses that were the focus of Ken Wainstein’s 131-page investigative report, which was released on Wednesday.
That report, though, told a different story – one in which Williams expressed concern not too long after arriving at UNC about the large number of his players who were majoring in AFAM and who were enrolled, some of them, it turned out, in no-show courses that often resulted in artificially high grades.
According to the data in Wainstein’s report, the men’s basketball team’s enrollments in paper classes peaked during the 2003-04 season and declined slightly and remained steady over the next three years. Enrollments declined sharply during the 2007-08 and 2008-09 seasons.
The numbers helped shape Wainstein’s conclusion that concerns raised by Williams and former assistant Joe Holladay led to a decrease in the number of the team’s enrollments in paper classes.
“You had Roy Williams and Joe Holladay taking these steps to reduce the number of paper classes that their players were taking,” Wainstein said.
The paper class “scheme,” as Wainstein often described it, was hatched by Deborah Crowder, a former administrative assistant in the AFAM department, and Julius Nyang’oro, the AFAM chairman. Crowder often created the classes herself and graded the papers on her own. Both were described as being sympathetic to athletes, especially those who needed help academically.
"Asked once why his basketball players at North Carolina gradually stopped enrolling in no-show Afro- and African-American Studies courses, coach Roy Williams said maybe they started to have other interests.
“Maybe guys, girls, just decided not to take certain classes,” Williams said two years ago when asked directly about the no-show AFAM courses that were the focus of Ken Wainstein’s 131-page investigative report, which was released on Wednesday.
That report, though, told a different story – one in which Williams expressed concern not too long after arriving at UNC about the large number of his players who were majoring in AFAM and who were enrolled, some of them, it turned out, in no-show courses that often resulted in artificially high grades.
According to the data in Wainstein’s report, the men’s basketball team’s enrollments in paper classes peaked during the 2003-04 season and declined slightly and remained steady over the next three years. Enrollments declined sharply during the 2007-08 and 2008-09 seasons.
The numbers helped shape Wainstein’s conclusion that concerns raised by Williams and former assistant Joe Holladay led to a decrease in the number of the team’s enrollments in paper classes.
“You had Roy Williams and Joe Holladay taking these steps to reduce the number of paper classes that their players were taking,” Wainstein said.
The paper class “scheme,” as Wainstein often described it, was hatched by Deborah Crowder, a former administrative assistant in the AFAM department, and Julius Nyang’oro, the AFAM chairman. Crowder often created the classes herself and graded the papers on her own. Both were described as being sympathetic to athletes, especially those who needed help academically.
So you think one professor (from Africa) and one secretary ran over 3,000 people through fake classes over a 20 year period , including getting the fake grades entered on their transcript, and nobody in the entire administration knew what was going on ? And this was only in the Afro- Studies department. Their emails suggested that other departments were involved (philosophy and others) but Weinstein's investigation was limited to only the Afro-Studies department at UNC's insistence.
The two professors who created the department didn't run it completely. They had assistants, and of course the assistant coaches for the ball teams obviously steered players into those classes. The school administration didn't "know," because they didn't want to know. They made it a point not to look at anything regarding the AFAM department. It's one of those situation where "you don't ask me any questions, I won't tell you any lies."
I'm not excusing or defending North Carolina. I'm not arguing against them getting a big penalty. This is "semantics" if you want to look at it that way. The administration didn't sit down and specifically create AFAM to help athletics. What happened was, the situation evolved naturally. The two professors created the AFAM department, and it didn't take the players and coaches long to figure out how to use it to their advantage. The administration didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth and turned a blind eye.
Weinstein isn't an elected official, unlike the Orange Menace.
It evolved alright from, Let's cheat to let's really cheat. If there is not a 5 year probation, recruits and strip titles then the NCAA has deemed itself a fraud.
You heel fans defending this stuff should be ashamed.
UNC should get the death penalty.
National Championships should be vacated.
The University of North Carolina should be discredited
UNC should get the death penalty.
National Championships should be vacated.
The University of North Carolina should be discredited
If I remember correctly, their response to the ncaa was done by a "homer" former governor. It was a white wash pure and simple. The Raleigh reporter who has dogged them from day one their transgressions pointed out that fact. That is not cooperation imo.
Not defending brother, there should be punishment. I was just responding to another poster saying ole' Roy knew what was going on and used it to his advantage, when it appears he did find out, thought it was questionable, and steered his players away from these classes.
They will be punished but IMHO, the NCAA punishes the University and current players that had nothing to do with it when the guilty folks just walk away, get another job or move on to the NBA or NFL. Was glad to see the State of NC go after some of these rogue agents as well.
LOL!! And the players "gradually stopped enrolling" in those classes. A coach who cared about not cheating would have had that number of players go immediately to ZERO enrolled. He knew about it. People knew about it, and allowed it to go on. Athletics or not, this was academic fraud, and UNC should be hammered. As mentioned above, at the very least, they should lose accreditation. But we shall see.
It was in the hands of the SEC commish, u know if he could hammer an ACC school he would have..
Greg Sankey, commissioner of the SEC and the head of the NCAA Committee on Infractions which heard UNC's case, said, "While student-athletes likely benefited from the so-called ‘paper courses’ offered by North Carolina, the information available in the record did not establish that the courses were solely created, offered and maintained as an orchestrated effort to benefit student-athletes."
Sankey's conclusion essentially echoed the argument that UNC had been making for years.
In May, in its response to the NCAA allegations, UNC wrote, "The issues concerning the courses are academic in nature and beyond the reach of the NCAA bylaws."
"NCAA policy is clear," Sankey said Friday. "The NCAA defers to its member schools to determine whether academic fraud occurred and, ultimately, the panel is bound to making decisions within the rules set by the membership."
Greg Sankey, commissioner of the SEC and the head of the NCAA Committee on Infractions which heard UNC's case, said, "While student-athletes likely benefited from the so-called ‘paper courses’ offered by North Carolina, the information available in the record did not establish that the courses were solely created, offered and maintained as an orchestrated effort to benefit student-athletes."
Sankey's conclusion essentially echoed the argument that UNC had been making for years.
In May, in its response to the NCAA allegations, UNC wrote, "The issues concerning the courses are academic in nature and beyond the reach of the NCAA bylaws."
"NCAA policy is clear," Sankey said Friday. "The NCAA defers to its member schools to determine whether academic fraud occurred and, ultimately, the panel is bound to making decisions within the rules set by the membership."
Interestingly, the NCAA didn't use that same argument with us and the Whitney hotel, in which non-athlete students were also residing under the same agreement.
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