Gorget, Cresent, moon, call it whatever, doesn't change the fact we got the best flag in the states. Now, about that new rendition of the palmetto, looks like it was drawn right after Hugo landed........js
This state flag really sucks! Why change??? Waste of money to redesign the flag...
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Thanks for that article! Additional info I didn't know about.Not a crescent, its a gorget on the Bull's coat of arms. I think William Bull was the first SC Lt Governor as an english colony and the soldiers wore the the Bull's gorget on their head gear. whatever you want to call it.
Did you actually read the article? It specifically makes the point that it was a crescent from the Bull coat of arms and NOT a gorget.
However, the "crescent" from the Bull coat of arms IS a gorget.
The article specifically says the crescent on the Bull coat of arms is the source of crescent and not sourced from a gorget.
The crescent on the arms is not in the shape of a gorget, as that shape in the arms could never fit around a throat as neck and upper chest protector. The appropriately drawn armored arm and sword belies any attempt at drawing a recognizable gorget. A crescent (on an arms) is the first, and most oftened used, indication of cadency of a junior branch recognized by the College of Arms. Typically placed in the Chief, or Dexter position. Like the current palmetto tree situation, there is no standard crescent, pointed up, pointed down, leaning left, or leaning right. Skinny or fat. Tips touching, or broadly placed apart. All are acceptable.
Heraldry doesn't use the word "gorget" to describe an individual element in an arms. The closest use would be a drawing of a "helmet that is gorged".
So no, it's not a gorget. The article linked is correct in that it is crescent on an arms. A heraldry element for cadency, not a gorget.
Ok, so the Bull family crest as the source of the "crescent" in the flag can be disputed, because as you say it's not a gorget.
Here's a painting of George Washington wearing one,
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This whole exercise was started to document a non-racist origin of the state flag to appease SJWs and keep them from organizing to cancel it.
Btw, have we added spurs onto the golden hen yet?
Btw, have we added spurs onto the golden hen yet?
Yes I did, but it depends won the wording today's english... Back in the days they used the word gorget and today refers to crescent. It can go either way. If you look at the Bull coat of arms, it's looks more like a gorget...
If you look at the Bull coat of arms, it's looks more like a gorget than crescent... I think it the meaning of the word back in those days... It was called gorget, but people looked at as a "crescent moon" next to the Palmetto tree... We do know the we Palmetto trees were used as walls of the fort where cannon balls bounced off the walls without causing too much damage...
Yes, that's a ceremonial gorget. Used for special events and ceremony, not for combat. I referenced George Washington wearing one in an earlier post. As the picture shows, it hangs by a chain from around the neck (even tips for balance).Ok, so the Bull family crest as the source of the "crescent" in the flag can be disputed, because as you say it's not a gorget.
Here's a painting of George Washington wearing one,
Assuming the article, that was linked above, is correct, the Bull arms were used as the inspiration. Those arms are medieval by their simplistic design (not quartered) and using actual armor and sword design of the period. If a gorget had been used, it would be a real gorget, not ceremonial. There would be a blade catch to protect the throat, if not affixed directly to the helmut. One side of the crescent would typically be a different shape than the other to free up and accomodate the swing of the sword arm.
A ceremonial gorget may have been the actual inspiration if one wishes to refute the account given in the linked article (not my link). I merely pointed out the article specifically implies it is not a gorget, right or wrong.
Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I thought a crescent in heraldry indicated involvement in one of the Crusades?
If you visit Fort Moutrie in Charleston you will see a likeness of one of the soldiers ( Liberty gorget on his cap ) who defended Fort Moultrie.
Fort Moultrie was constructed of spongy palmetto logs which were impervious to the British cannon balls during the battle of Sullivan's Island in 1776. It's easy to see the relationship between the gorget crescent and palmetto tree on our flag and no other state has a story quite so unique.
According to PRT the only state with a more recognizable state flag is the lone star flag of Texas.
I'm amused when I pass by the store in Columbiana Mall named "The Palmetto Moon". At least there's a Gorget Distillery in town.
Fort Moultrie was constructed of spongy palmetto logs which were impervious to the British cannon balls during the battle of Sullivan's Island in 1776. It's easy to see the relationship between the gorget crescent and palmetto tree on our flag and no other state has a story quite so unique.
According to PRT the only state with a more recognizable state flag is the lone star flag of Texas.
I'm amused when I pass by the store in Columbiana Mall named "The Palmetto Moon". At least there's a Gorget Distillery in town.
On the second floor of the SC State House is a marble copy of the Ordinance of Secession. At it's top is the SC flag but the crescent is not tilted like you see on our current flag. I'm told that an early flag manufacturer added the tilt to the crescent which makes it appear to be a moon.
Not the crescent.
Cadency - Wikipedia
Notice that the image of the crescent is relevant to this thread (not a gorget, but looks like a ceremonial one)
Jerusalem Cross
Probably the most specifically relevant to the crusades.
Because S Carolina is great at pissing away money on pointless ventures. The governors niece was probably getting paid triple digits a year for several years to sit at home and do nothing.
I highly recommend a tour of Fort Moultrie where the National Park Service guide will be eager to explain that the crescent on our flag is indeed a gorget. You may get an even better explanation on a guided tour of our State House when they resume operations. One of the PRT guides there often wears a gorget during the tours.
I concur on visiting Fort Moultrie, fascinating place and view. However, be wary of what the guide tells you. The National Park Service in particular often "revises" their history to fit the whims of the current administration.
I highly recommend the opinion of a college history professor that has actually studied history.
I'm more wary of those who after reading this thread still believe our flag features the "Carolina Moon".
We need to bring back SC history into the schools.
The Moutrie Flag's gorget looks less like a moon. After the palmetto logs used in the fort withstood the cannonballs and helped defeat the British is easy to see how its image was added to this flag.
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The pointing straight up crescent from the Bull coat of arms was tilted to the left by Moultrie to mimick the moon. This has been a very common alteration to arms for centuries, often in conjunction with a rampant animal (typically a lion) reaching up to claw the "moon".The Moutrie Flag's gorget looks less like a moon. After the palmetto logs used in the fort withstood the cannonballs and helped defeat the British is easy to see how its image was added to this flag.
Modern iterations of the state flag have taken the tilted herald crescent in the Dexter position and moved it closer to the tree and transformed it into a crescent moon over the tree, ala the car window stickers.
Not directly to this branch, however, I had family on Barbados that were neighbors and close associates to the Bulls as fellow colonists waiting to establish Charleston Colony under Lord Ashley-Cooper in 1670.
The original gorget was useful in battle. It was even more useful in the kitchen as a metallic bib. Soups can get messy!
I am also indirectly related to Bulls. My branch landed around the Georgetown, Myrtle beach area 300+ years ago
Same here, another family line owned part of Georgetown before the town was subdivided into lots in 1735. That line is married into the Middletons, Izards, Horrys, Rutledges, Pinckneys, and Singletons, same as the Bulls in this thread are.
[/QUOTE]Actually the concept artist was Ellen Heyward Jervey from Charleston. She drew it in 1910. She has not as yet filed for compensation...
Palmetto tree with COVID-19?
