University of North Dakota is looking for a new nickname for their

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

sports team. They were forced by the NCAA to give up the nickname "Fighting Sioux". But this is my question, how about the University of Illinois, "Fighing Illini"? What's the difference between the "Fighting Sioux" and the "Fighing Illini"? Will the University of Illinois be force by the NCAA to give up their nickname "Fighting Illini"?
This post was edited on 4/1 11:45 AM by Freddie.B.Cocky

 

[DixieCock78]

The Illini Tribe has given consent to the Univ. of Illinois to use the name. Same with the Seminole tribe in Florida. And the Utes in Utah. The NCAA allows the name of the tribe if the tribe gives consent. The Sioux Tribe in ND has not given consent and therefore the name must be changed per NCAA rules.

 

[67gamecock]

Originally posted by DixieCock78:
The Illini Tribe has given consent to the Univ. of Illinois to use the name. Same with the Seminole tribe in Florida. And the Utes in Utah. The NCAA allows the name of the tribe if the tribe gives consent. The Sioux Tribe in ND has not given consent and therefore the name must be changed per NCAA rules.

Well! I'll bet the Sioux tribe won't be getting anymore 'Power Bingo' parlor licenses from the state of North Dakota!

 

[Cackdiesel]

Originally posted by DixieCock78:
The Illini Tribe has given consent to the Univ. of Illinois to use the name. Same with the Seminole tribe in Florida. And the Utes in Utah. The NCAA allows the name of the tribe if the tribe gives consent. The Sioux Tribe in ND has not given consent and therefore the name must be changed per NCAA rules.

Everyone of those names will eventually be changed, as will ours. It may be a 100 years from now, but they'll be changed.

 

[fightingcock103]

Originally posted by DixieCock78:
The Illini Tribe has given consent to the Univ. of Illinois to use the name. Same with the Seminole tribe in Florida. And the Utes in Utah. The NCAA allows the name of the tribe if the tribe gives consent. The Sioux Tribe in ND has not given consent and therefore the name must be changed per NCAA rules.

Wrong, they had consent from one of the two Sioux tribes the last go around and both tribes conducted ceremonies approving of the name originally. The state of North Dakota voted on it as part of an election and the people of North Dakota, most of whom would be North Dakota State fans voted to change it.
Oddly enough the San Diego State Aztecs are alright because either they don't exist anymore or it happened South of the border or Cortez killed them and not a WASP so there somehow is less white guilt there.

 

[gcock5]

what about Norte Dame?

What if I'm of Irish descent and find that stereotype offensive?

 

[gamecockengineer2011]

If I were UND Id call my sports teams the Fightin' NCAA Hypocrites

 

[SpartanSpur]

Re: what about Norte Dame?

Originally posted by gcock5:
What if I'm of Irish descent and find that stereotype offensive?

Yes, especially since I know how they were founded and got their nickname. ND was founded by French priest. I was told the nickname came about when ND wanted to make the nickname based on Catholic background, the Fighting Frenchmen did not sound mean enough, so they came up with the Fighting Irish.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Originally posted by Cackdiesel:

Originally posted by DixieCock78:
The Illini Tribe has given consent to the Univ. of Illinois to use the name. Same with the Seminole tribe in Florida. And the Utes in Utah. The NCAA allows the name of the tribe if the tribe gives consent. The Sioux Tribe in ND has not given consent and therefore the name must be changed per NCAA rules.

Everyone of those names will eventually be changed, as will ours. It may be a 100 years from now, but they'll be changed.

Why will ours be changed? I mean how is a real Gamecock going to be offended by the name "the Fighting Gamecocks"?

 

[Cackdiesel]

Originally posted by Freddie.B.Cocky:

Originally posted by Cackdiesel:

Originally posted by DixieCock78:
The Illini Tribe has given consent to the Univ. of Illinois to use the name. Same with the Seminole tribe in Florida. And the Utes in Utah. The NCAA allows the name of the tribe if the tribe gives consent. The Sioux Tribe in ND has not given consent and therefore the name must be changed per NCAA rules.

Everyone of those names will eventually be changed, as will ours. It may be a 100 years from now, but they'll be changed.

Why will ours be changed? I mean how is a real Gamecock going to be offended by the name "the Fighting Gamecocks"?

Someone's always offended by something. I'm shocked ours hasn't been changed already. Don't get me wrong, I think it's stupid. Eventually, some organization like PETA will make sure it's changed by threatening to boycott the state or by threating some other craziness.

 

[HornNerd]

How about "The Fighting Sue"?

A girl named Susan could be their mascot.
This post was edited on 4/1 1:55 PM by HornNerd

 

[67gamecock]

Originally posted by Cackdiesel:

Originally posted by DixieCock78:
The Illini Tribe has given consent to the Univ. of Illinois to use the name. Same with the Seminole tribe in Florida. And the Utes in Utah. The NCAA allows the name of the tribe if the tribe gives consent. The Sioux Tribe in ND has not given consent and therefore the name must be changed per NCAA rules.

Everyone of those names will eventually be changed, as will ours. It may be a 100 years from now, but they'll be changed.

The only 'problem' we have re: the 'Gamecock' as our mascot is the illegal practice (in most, if not all, states) of cock fighting. Enforce the laws against such practices and, Voila! No more problems. It's not our problem - it's the fringe element of society that is the villain here.

Remove the practice of illegal cock fights and the only argument PETA can offer is the aggressive nature of the bird - and he IS aggressive and prone to attack when his territory or females are threatened. However, Tigers and Lions are aggressive and a threat to humans and animals on a much larger scale than the Gamecock whether they're caged in the Columbia Zoo or roaming wild in Africa or India. So, what are we to do? Demand the banning of the Tiger, Lion, Wildcat, Jaguar, Wolverine, Badger, Bear, Beaver, Alligator, etc?

I offer this: PETA People are NUTS!

Btw, as so many PETA types have to be reminded re: Carolinians love of the fighting bird, The Gamecock - the mascot is in honor of a Revolutionary War HERO, General Thomas Sumter! Would they have the USA returning to BRITISH rule?

 

[SClanding]

Re: Never let crazy people into positions of power.....

Not sure it was such a great idea to send the mental cases from mental hospitals off to run our universities and the NCAA.

Oh well, if they are off slaying Don Quixote windmills such as the horrors of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname then that keeps them from having to deal with rampant cheating going on at UK and their 15 McDonald All-Americans whom came from Florida, California, Texas, NYC and every other corner of the country to fall "love" with Lexington, Kentucky , .

 

[DirtyCock99]

Originally posted by HornNerd:
How about "The Fighting Sue"?

A girl named Susan could be their mascot.
This post was edited on 4/1 1:55 PM by HornNerd

Or Johnny Cash

 

[heckwithtech]

Re: what about Norte Dame?

Hofstra changed from "The Flying Dutchmen" to "Pride". Syracuse changed from Orangemen to Orange, which was a far more subtle change... Orangemen is a name tribute to Protestant forces (Orange Order) that defeated King James II Catholic forces in 1690.

Notre Dame is a name change that probably should happen following the logic of the NCAA. If that ever happens (which it won't), the Boston NBA franchise would be pressured to change names as it perpetuates the same stereotypes and doesn't reflect the city's Italian-Irish split. Then again, any team nickname involving Irish stuff is pretty rough considering the anti-Irish and anti-Catholic sentiments in the US during the 1800s and then the segregation of Italian immigrants from Irish immigrants and Irish-American citizens that took place in the Northeastern US.

Then there's the matter of the Cincinnati Reds... why can't sports be apolitical?

 

[slingshot22]

Originally posted by Cackdiesel:

Originally posted by DixieCock78:
The Illini Tribe has given consent to the Univ. of Illinois to use the name. Same with the Seminole tribe in Florida. And the Utes in Utah. The NCAA allows the name of the tribe if the tribe gives consent. The Sioux Tribe in ND has not given consent and therefore the name must be changed per NCAA rules.

Everyone of those names will eventually be changed, as will ours. It may be a 100 years from now, but they'll be changed.

As will, the Irish, the Patriots, the Crimson Tide, the Deacons, etc and everyone will have to be called Tigers or Rats.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Originally posted by HornNerd:
How about "The Fighting Sue"?

A girl named Susan could be their mascot.

This post was edited on 4/1 1:55 PM by HornNerd

Now, that's funny I don't care who you are.

 

[rock cock doc]

I thought USC took the name fighting gamecock from the Revolutionary War Hero, Thomas "Gamecock" Sumter.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

How could the team nickname at Hofstra, "The Flying Dutchmen" offend Dutchmen? Now we are getting into some crazy stuff here.

 

[the-iceman]

How about the runaround Sue's? Or would that be offensive to promiscuous women

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Originally posted by the-iceman:
How about the runaround Sue's? Or would that be offensive to promiscuous women

Again, that is funny I don't care who you are.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

Re: what about Norte Dame?

Originally posted by heckwithtech:
Hofstra changed from "The Flying Dutchmen" to "Pride". Syracuse changed from Orangemen to Orange, which was a far more subtle change... Orangemen is a name tribute to Protestant forces (Orange Order) that defeated King James II Catholic forces in 1690.

Notre Dame is a name change that probably should happen following the logic of the NCAA. If that ever happens (which it won't), the Boston NBA franchise would be pressured to change names as it perpetuates the same stereotypes and doesn't reflect the city's Italian-Irish split. Then again, any team nickname involving Irish stuff is pretty rough considering the anti-Irish and anti-Catholic sentiments in the US during the 1800s and then the segregation of Italian immigrants from Irish immigrants and Irish-American citizens that took place in the Northeastern US.

Then there's the matter of the Cincinnati Reds... why can't sports be apolitical?

The Reds is short for The Red Stockings, so there is no need to change the name

 

[Percy57]

If PETA gets involved all the teams with animal names will be in trouble.

Also I understood that we were named after General Thomas Sumter who was nick named "Gamecock " by the British.

 

[Cyan-gamecock]

The Gamecock name more likely came from a sportswriter. Sumter had no connection to USC other than his nickname being the same. The future Gamecocks were once known as the jaguars among other names.

 

[sandlapper59]

Far too many people act as if there were a Constitutional guarantee that they will not be offended. Its not in there or in the Bill Of Rights. Everyone has their own version of what is offensive as well as what they label political correctness and it is not all claimed by liberals.

 

[heckwithtech]

Re: what about Norte Dame?

Originally posted by Harvard Gamecock:

Originally posted by heckwithtech:
Hofstra changed from "The Flying Dutchmen" to "Pride". Syracuse changed from Orangemen to Orange, which was a far more subtle change... Orangemen is a name tribute to Protestant forces (Orange Order) that defeated King James II Catholic forces in 1690.

Notre Dame is a name change that probably should happen following the logic of the NCAA. If that ever happens (which it won't), the Boston NBA franchise would be pressured to change names as it perpetuates the same stereotypes and doesn't reflect the city's Italian-Irish split. Then again, any team nickname involving Irish stuff is pretty rough considering the anti-Irish and anti-Catholic sentiments in the US during the 1800s and then the segregation of Italian immigrants from Irish immigrants and Irish-American citizens that took place in the Northeastern US.

Then there's the matter of the Cincinnati Reds... why can't sports be apolitical?

The Reds is short for The Red Stockings, so there is no need to change the name

True, but there was a strong push to change the name during the Cold War. As a Dutch-American, I'm not offended by "Flying Dutchmen", but I don't understand the whole flying thing though and neither do my two family members that graduated from there.

 

[Percy57]

Re: what about Norte Dame?

Hofstra has changed its name to the'' Pride'. The" Flying Dutchman" is a mythical ghost shiip that is doomed to said the oceans forever and never reach a port. Probably taken from the Opera of the same name.

 

[Percy57]

I think they should change the name to "Fighting Ice Men". Their logo could be a refrigarator or a man with ice tongs sneaking in the back door.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Originally posted by HornNerd:
How about "The Fighting Sue"?

A girl named Susan could be their mascot.
This post was edited on 4/1 1:55 PM by HornNerd

Or a boy name Sue...

 

[simms2000]

So did the letter that demanded North Dakota change their mascot from the Fighting Sioux to something else come from the NCAA in Indian...apolis, Indian...a? The fighting Sioux should sue the NCAA for the cost of changing. Can you imagine the cost to a small school like Newberry to change all stationery, logos, signage etc.?

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Originally posted by simms2000:
So did the letter that demanded North Dakota change their mascot from the Fighting Sioux to something else come from the NCAA in Indian...apolis, Indian...a? The fighting Sioux should sue the NCAA for the cost of changing. Can you imagine the cost to a small school like Newberry to change all stationery, logos, signage etc.?

Link attached.

One tribe of the Sioux Nation gave permission for UND to use it's name and one tribe did not, so therefore, the NCAA is making the school change the nickname.

I'm not saying some team nicknames can't be offensive, but I think the people, group, tribes or whatever have to remember the reason a team is using them as a nickname is because they think it is an honor for their team to be named after said group.

For example, if some team wanted to use the nickname Freddie.B.Cocky, I would feel honored. I can just hear it on TV now, boy, those Freddie.B.Cocky's are kicking butt today on the field.

This post was edited on 4/6 4:37 PM by Freddie.B.Cocky

NCAA Making UND change nickname

 

[heckwithtech]

Re: what about Norte Dame?

I got the answer on Hofstra from a family member's roommate:

The founder of Hofstra University, William Hofstra, is a Dutch-American immigrant of Frisian culture and language (last names that end in -tra or -sma are dead giveaways). New York and the Long Island area still had a sizeable Dutch-American population at the time of Hofstra University's founding. Hofstra's original insignia was based on the Dutch House of Orange-Nassau, which is the namesake for Nassau and Orange counties in New York.

The flying element comes from the fact that 'The Flying DutchMAN' is a popular nickname for individual Dutch and Dutch-Americans that excelled at something that was athletic or daring.

Nothing to do with the ship or any sort of an opera. They just wanted to give the team a plural nickname for a common nickname.

The only school that I could think that has made something official regarding their sports programs that came from live theatre performances is actually South Carolina with the fight song.

 

[Mr CockStrong]

Originally posted by Freddie.B.Cocky:

sports team. They were forced by the NCAA to give up the nickname "Fighting Sioux". But this is my question, how about the University of Illinois, "Fighing Illini"? What's the difference between the "Fighting Sioux" and the "Fighing Illini"? Will the University of Illinois be force by the NCAA to give up their nickname "Fighting Illini"?

This post was edited on 4/1 11:45 AM by Freddie.B.Cocky

It looks to me as if the state of North Dakota voted to change the name. The NCAA didn't force them to change.

"Following several periods of frantic appeals, repeals and reversals, the "Fighting Sioux" name was retired in a state vote during the 2012 primary election, with the looming threat of NCAA sanctions hanging over the university's head."

 

[TheMasterplan]

"Peta People are nuts"

I am a card carrying member of PETA and I can assure you that I couldn't possibly care any less about our school being called the fighting gamecocks. Somebody wrote a letter to the school 10 years ago about the mascot and it hasn't come up since.

I can also assure you that members of PETA wouldn't "have the USA returning to BRITISH rule" or whatever it is that you are going on about.

There is clearly a nut on this board, but it isn't the PETA one.

Good day.

 

[usaguy40]

"the fighting sue".......problem solved

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Originally posted by Mr CockStrong:

Originally posted by Freddie.B.Cocky:

sports team. They were forced by the NCAA to give up the nickname "Fighting Sioux". But this is my question, how about the University of Illinois, "Fighing Illini"? What's the difference between the "Fighting Sioux" and the "Fighing Illini"? Will the University of Illinois be force by the NCAA to give up their nickname "Fighting Illini"?


This post was edited on 4/1 11:45 AM by Freddie.B.Cocky

It looks to me as if the state of North Dakota voted to change the name. The NCAA didn't force them to change.

"Following several periods of frantic appeals, repeals and reversals, the "Fighting Sioux" name was retired in a state vote during the 2012 primary election, with the looming threat of NCAA sanctions hanging over the university's head."

Further reseach on my part showed the above to be true. But, I think the reason for the vote (and I don't know this for sure) was because there are two tribes of Sioux Indians in North Dakota. One tribe of the Sioux Indians gave permission to the university to use the nickname Fighting Sioux and the 2nd tribe of Sioux Indians did not even bring it to a vote.

I think it was fought hard for a couple of years by the university but then I guess to settle the issue, it was put to a vote for the residences of North Dakota to decide the issue.