What happened to the Carolina Basketball program???

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

After making it to the final four, we fell off the cliff again after climbing up for years...

Is it the coaching from Frank? Assistant coaches problems? Players who think they are good and end up falling on their faces?

Just trying to put a finger on this basketball program that should have taken step up moving up after that great run...

I think we could have hired George Glymph after George Felton was fired....

Maybe a we should hire a good local high school coach and rebuild this program with local players???

 

[OldWiseCock]

• Frank failed to capitalize on the FF with recruiting - not sure why
• We had some guys who left or who were kicked out (Dozier & Felder)
• Some bad evaluations (Keita, Beaty, et al)
• BB guns
• Too many projects (Gueye, Tut, etc)
• Bad luck
• Covid

I realize Frank is the coach so the buck stops with him, and I've been hard on him too, but people who say the game has passed him by are not paying attention. However, recruiting has to pick up or this will continue for as long as Frank is here.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

• Frank failed to capitalize on the FF with recruiting - not sure why
• We had some guys who left or who were kicked out (Dozier & Felder)
• Some bad evaluations (Keita, Beaty, et al)
• BB guns
• Too many projects (Gueye, Tut, etc)
• Bad luck
• Covid

I realize Frank is the coach so the buck stops with him, and I've been hard on him too, but people who say the game has passed him by are not paying attention. However, recruiting has to pick up or this will continue for as long as Frank is here.

Frank stepped away for a game last week and we still played like crap. The assistant coaches show no coaching support, the players don't step up. I'm not going to give a pass to COVID, a lot of teams are struggling, but this program is beyond struggling...

 

[92Pony]

Too many project recruits. No star recruits want to play for CFM.

 

[DibbleDee]

PJ and Thornwell left.

 

[Silver_Coconut]

It just goes in cycles guys. We made a great run, and then we had to build back up. It happens to every team in the country.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Frank stepped away for a game last week and we still played like crap. The assistant coaches show no coaching support, the players don't step up. I'm not going to give a pass to COVID, a lot of teams are struggling, but this program is beyond struggling...

Your statement is a broadside. I tried to be a little more precise and point to the specific things that I think have gone wrong. But I think most people agree that the problem has been we are not recruiting at a high enough level.

 

[adcoop]

1. We have a 1980's style coach in the 2020's

2. The Final Four Run was an anomaly that was built on an in-state kid that didn't get the UNC offer he wanted, a USC legacy. and some hard working role players.

3. The atmosphere around our basketball program is that it is just something to do between football and baseball.

4. Our players tend to play to tight. Basketball is a rhythm game that it is played best on instinct and when you are feeling good. I don't see that in our players. This connects with Reason #1.

 

[kawalski]

Frank stepped away for a game last week and we still played like crap. The assistant coaches show no coaching support, the players don't step up. I'm not going to give a pass to COVID, a lot of teams are struggling, but this program is beyond struggling...

You dont have to give a pass to Covid, but its effected us tremendously like it or not.

 

[polo-loco]

After making it to the final four, we fell off the cliff again after climbing up for years...

Is it the coaching from Frank? Assistant coaches problems? Players who think they are good and end up falling on their faces?

Just trying to put a finger on this basketball program that should have taken step up moving up after that great run...

I think we could have hired George Glymph after George Felton was fired....

Maybe a we should hire a good local high school coach and rebuild this program with local players???

Nothing. We were mediocre and had a good year. We are now mediocre again.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

What's that?

 

[kidrobinski]

.... However, recruiting has to pick up or this will continue for as long as Frank is here.

Man, recruiting hasn’t “picked up” here since McGuire brought his catholic guys down here from NYC. Really good player here and there, but mostly same thing we have now. We are what we are.

Too many project recruits. No star recruits want to play for CFM.

No star recruits want to play for South Carolina, period; never have. We are just not a sexy basketball school for young people, where they COME UP wanting to play here, regardless of coach. I know folks don’t like to hear that, but it’s true. The only way we are ever going to get out of basketball mediocrity is through espionage, subterfuge, and transgressions, and we will have to perpetuate that to stay there.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

1. We have a 1980's style coach in the 2020's

2. The Final Four Run was an anomaly that was built on an in-state kid that didn't get the UNC offer he wanted, a USC legacy. and some hard working role players.

3. The atmosphere around our basketball program is that it is just something to do between football and baseball.

4. Our players tend to play to tight. Basketball is a rhythm game that it is played best on instinct and when you are feeling good. I don't see that in our players. This connects with Reason #1.

#3 is a bigger issue than most realize or want to admit.

 

[Captain Weegie]

It just goes in cycles guys. We made a great run, and then we had to build back up. It happens to every team in the country.

We never had a cycle...we've had three great weeks of basketball in nine years. That's a blip on the radar surrounded by a mountain of mediocrity.

 

[92Pony]

Man, recruiting hasn’t “picked up” here since McGuire brought his catholic guys down here from NYC. Really good player here and there, but mostly same thing we have now. We are what we are.


No star recruits want to play for South Carolina, period; never have. We are just not a sexy basketball school for young people, where they COME UP wanting to play here, regardless of coach. I know folks don’t like to hear that, but it’s true. The only way we are ever going to get out of basketball mediocrity is through espionage, subterfuge, and transgressions, and we will have to perpetuate that to stay there.

Can't argue there.

 

[OldWiseCock]

I don't accept that we are what we are - average to below average. I think it can be done here. Everyone has to start from somewhere and plenty of programs have climbed the ladder.

 

[Silver_Coconut]

We never had a cycle...we've had three great weeks of basketball in nine years. That's a blip on the radar surrounded by a mountain of mediocrity.

Are you aware how much preparation goes into having 3 great weeks?

 

[Balwiles]

• Frank failed to capitalize on the FF with recruiting - not sure why
• We had some guys who left or who were kicked out (Dozier & Felder)
• Some bad evaluations (Keita, Beaty, et al)
• BB guns
• Too many projects (Gueye, Tut, etc)
• Bad luck
• Covid

I realize Frank is the coach so the buck stops with him, and I've been hard on him too, but people who say the game has passed him by are not paying attention. However, recruiting has to pick up or this will continue for as long as Frank is here.

^^^This^^^. Only thing I would add is the connection of on-court demeanor and recruiting.

Very few, especially in this day and age, want some large enraged man screaming at them throughout each and every game.

 

[Conway Gamecock]

Why are you asking this question almost exactly TWO years after you asked it before, on this very forum? You got tons of answers and perspectives then, and you responded to many of them. Does your memory not last that long??

 

[Conway Gamecock]

But here we go - personally, I think some coaches get caught up into their own egos a bit too much. Coach Martin loves to talk at pressers, and when he does, you get the same sense - but in a different style - that he has the same type of ego that Spurrier had about his own coaching-up and player development abilities.

People - not just South Carolina fans - used to wonder why during the years that Spurrier was at USC, he didn't go after elite-level prep QBs. I mean, he coached one to a Heisman trophy, and to two national championship games. He was supposedly the offensive "Evil Genius", and had Florida's offense leading the nation in passing and scoring stats year after year. Seems like the top prep QBs would droll over the prospect of playing for Steve Spurrier.

But the answer was, that Spurrier didn't like having ego wars with the elite blue-chip QBs. He didn't want to have to deal with those QB egos when he chose to replace them in games with back-ups, which he was destined to do. He wanted to have the final say.

So he got us a couple of Elite 11's - one that would never play for him - but mostly 4-star prospects that would feel they still need to learn from the coaches (him). He hardly EVER bothered with trying to even recruit the elite prospects.

Coach Martin I think is the same way: he likes to "coach up" his players. He doesn't like having to be a "negotiator" with the elite "One-And-Done" players to get them buy into his defensive program. SO, he'll mostly give lip-service to those in-state elite players, and then move on.

The best chances he'll ever have to getting those, will be if they are Dozier and Thornwell type players - they want to come play at South Carolina regardless of Frank Martin because of family relationships and legacies. Those type prospects "buy in" just as much as the lower-rated 4-stars, 3 stars, and lower that are just happy to get a full ride from ANY major program. There's little to no ego wars in those situations, but they are also very few and far between out there....

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

It just goes in cycles guys. We made a great run, and then we had to build back up. It happens to every team in the country.

That great run was a flash in the pan that we will never see again in Men's basketball...

 

[saltlifeGamecock]

After making it to the final four, we fell off the cliff again after climbing up for years...

Is it the coaching from Frank? Assistant coaches problems? Players who think they are good and end up falling on their faces?

Just trying to put a finger on this basketball program that should have taken step up moving up after that great run...

I think we could have hired George Glymph after George Felton was fired....

Maybe a we should hire a good local high school coach and rebuild this program with local players???

You do realize theres a damn pndemic out there. Nothing about this year counts or should used to make ignorant fanbase comments!!!!!

 

[Silver_Coconut]

That great run was a flash in the pan that we will never see again in Men's basketball...

Great post.

 

[spardue]

• Frank failed to capitalize on the FF with recruiting - not sure why
• We had some guys who left or who were kicked out (Dozier & Felder)
• Some bad evaluations (Keita, Beaty, et al)
• BB guns
• Too many projects (Gueye, Tut, etc)
• Bad luck
• Covid

I realize Frank is the coach so the buck stops with him, and I've been hard on him too, but people who say the game has passed him by are not paying attention. However, recruiting has to pick up or this will continue for as long as Frank is here.

Excellent analysis. Only thing I’d add is that the MBB program was in no man’s land during Horn’s tenure and the latter part of Odom’s time.

 

[king ward]

I don't accept that we are what we are - average to below average. I think it can be done here. Everyone has to start from somewhere and plenty of programs have climbed the ladder.

We had a man on his way to doing it, but we ran him off over a DUI that got overturned.

 

[Sumptacock]

It just goes in cycles guys. We made a great run, and then we had to build back up. It happens to every team in the country.

I suspect not many COMPETITIVE programs would settle for a once-every-nine-years record of "success"

 

[Silver_Coconut]

I suspect not many COMPETITIVE programs would settle for a once-every-nine-years record of "success"

Ok broken record.

 

[kidrobinski]

I don't accept that we are what we are - average to below average. I think it can be done here. Everyone has to start from somewhere and plenty of programs have climbed the ladder.

Wish I could agree. We are what we are and what we’ve always been with the exception of early McGuire. Until we figure out a way to get the players in here, the name of the coach will be irrelevant.

 

[Captain Weegie]

Are you aware how much preparation goes into having 3 great weeks?

We were not ranked much (if at all) during the regular season preceding the FF run...so I dunno, maybe a couple/few weeks of prep time?

We were a 7 seed in the tourney that year, so that has us at in the range of #25-28 at the end of the regular season. Pretty much confirms it...the FF was a rather large flash in the pan.

 

[feeble2001]

We were not ranked much (if at all) during the regular season preceding the FF run...so I dunno, maybe a couple/few weeks of prep time?

We were a 7 seed in the tourney that year, so that has us at in the range of #25-28 at the end of the regular season. Pretty much confirms it...the FF was a rather large flash in the pan.

Sindarius missed 5-6 games and I think we had 4 losses during that time

this team played really well all year and Frank got two really inexperienced bigs ready to dominate in the tourney

that doesn’t take “a few weeks”

 

[Silver_Coconut]

We were not ranked much (if at all) during the regular season preceding the FF run...so I dunno, maybe a couple/few weeks of prep time?

We were a 7 seed in the tourney that year, so that has us at in the range of #25-28 at the end of the regular season. Pretty much confirms it...the FF was a rather large flash in the pan.

It takes years my man.

 

[jeff2001]

KB killing people

 

[Silver_Coconut]

AJ has turned into a great shooter. He struggles mightily as a passer.

 

[drawplay000]

It just goes in cycles guys. We made a great run, and then we had to build back up. It happens to every team in the country.

This ain’t no circle. Lol. One tourney trip ..you seem to think we go every couple of years haha

 

[feeble2001]

This ain’t no circle. Lol. One tourney trip ..you seem to think we go every couple of years haha

Why are you here? Literally no one likes you

 

[midline]

USC basketball has been lost for years, decades. With the exception of one three week hot streak with a bubble team that nobody saw coming in their wildest dreams. Some decent days in the old Metro. A couple of good years under Fogler, but then they melt down in the tourney. The hole USC finds itself in was actually created by Paul Dietzel decades ago. He was able to convince the powers that be that the only way USC could be elite in football was to leave the ACC because of their academic recruiting restrictions at the time. Frank tried to tell anyone that would listen that pulling out of the ACC would kill the basketball program. And he was correct.

 

[OldWiseCock]

We beat an average UGA team tonight, but we beat them convincingly. We contested every pass, every shot, every rebound and every loose ball. It was good to have McCreary back. We have the potential to be a good team. I like the new look on defense.

It is fun to watch them play when they play like they did tonight.

 

[feeble2001]

USC basketball has been lost for years, decades. With the exception of one three week hot streak with a bubble team that nobody saw coming in their wildest dreams. Some decent days in the old Metro. A couple of good years under Fowler, but then they melt down in the tourney. The hole USC finds itself in was actually created by Paul Dietzel decades ago. He was able to convince the powers that be that the only way USC could be elite in football was to leave the ACC because of their academic recruiting restrictions at the time. Frank tried to tell anyone that would listen that pulling out of the ACC would kill the basketball program. And he was correct.

7th seed is a bubble team now? Huh.

 

[Gamekem]

The premise of this thread would assume that USC was some sort of powerhouse in basketball in recent years and obviously it's not. Prior to 2017 we haven't had a win in a NCAA tournament game since 1974. That's 43 years of mediocrity, so to answer your question nothing happened. We had two really good seasons with upperclassmen heavy teams and the past 5 years is some our best in terms of conference play. Unfortunately we couldn't capitalize on the final four run due to core of that team either graduating or going to the draft.

 

[Silver_Coconut]

This ain’t no circle. Lol. One tourney trip ..you seem to think we go every couple of years haha

This ain’t no circle. Lol. One tourney trip ..you seem to think we go every couple of years haha

If we go this year or next, that would be pretty cyclical.