When has an incoming coach faced a taller task?

[DibbleDee]

Beamer takes over a team coming off consecutive 4-win and 2-win seasons. And, we weren't even a competitive 2-win team this season. Add into that, the recruiting disaster he inherited. The word "disaster" doesn't even do it justice. It has to be our worst ever, right? The class currently sits at 107th, with 9 total recruits, all 3*. The highest ranked player is 619th in the nation. Vandy, by comparison, checks in at #48. The only P5 team with a worse class is Oregon State. On top of that, Clemson has been in the top 10 for the last 3 recruiting cycles and has played in 4 national title games, winning 2 since 2015. UGA is also on a run, pushing for the CFP each year.

Holtz, indeed, inherited a disaster in 1999. However, Clemson was not nearly what they are now. While we went 1-10 in 1998, Clemson only went 3-8. Clemson at that time was in a pretty bad funk, though not as bad of a funk as ours. It was a bad team, but the environment was more manageable than it is now. And, let's face it, there's not really any difference between 2-8 and 1-10.

When you consider the overall state of our team/program, the absolutely catastrophic recruiting situation and the environment with Clemson being a juggernaut and UGA being near-elite, I don't see where an incoming coach has faced a more daunting task.

That said, I don't believe it's all doom and gloom. I think Beamer is up to the task. I'm actually excited to see what he can do next year. I believe he has the makeup to get something out of nothing.

 

[Cockopotamus]

He has at least a 5 year grace period built in with what he has to work with. Anybody expecting anything significant before then isn't being realistic. Just settle in and hope that we can get a few upsets in the next few years. Not gonna happen overnight with this mess.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

Beamer takes over a team coming off consecutive 4-win and 2-win seasons. And, we weren't even a competitive 2-win team this season. Add into that, the recruiting disaster he inherited. The word "disaster" doesn't even do it justice. It has to be our worst ever, right? The class currently sits at 107th, with 9 total recruits, all 3*. The highest ranked player is 619th in the nation. Vandy, by comparison, checks in at #48. The only P5 team with a worse class is Oregon State. On top of that, Clemson has been in the top 10 for the last 3 recruiting cycles and has played in 4 national title games, winning 2 since 2015. UGA is also on a run, pushing for the CFP each year.

Holtz, indeed, inherited a disaster in 1999. However, Clemson was not nearly what they are now. While we went 1-10 in 1998, Clemson only went 3-8. Clemson at that time was in a pretty bad funk, though not as bad of a funk as ours. It was a bad team, but the environment was more manageable than it is now. And, let's face it, there's not really any difference between 2-8 and 1-10.

When you consider the overall state of our team/program, the absolutely catastrophic recruiting situation and the environment with Clemson being a juggernaut and UGA being near-elite, I don't see where an incoming coach has faced a more daunting task.

That said, I don't believe it's all doom and gloom. I think Beamer is up to the task. I'm actually excited to see what he can do next year. I believe he has the makeup to get something out of nothing.

Gauthier is a 4*. Just sayin.

GamecockScoop

The definitive source for all South Carolina news.

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I think Lou took over a bigger mess. We had won ONE game the year before he came in and he won ZERO his first season because we were so broken...

 

[cadcock]

Lou definitely inherited a much, much worse team. Brad’s last team was the worst team I have seen in my 40+ years. Lou’s first team’s OL couldn’t pass block or run block, he didn’t have a RB who lead the SEC in rushing much less another 5 star RB back up, he also didn’t have two 5 star D lineman. Beamer needs to win and win sooner rather than later. I will not provide him a crutch to excuse losing.

 

[DibbleDee]

Gauthier is a 4*. Just sayin.

GamecockScoop

The definitive source for all South Carolina news.

southcarolina.rivals.com

I think Lou took over a bigger mess. We had won ONE game the year before he came in and he won ZERO his first season because we were so broken...

Maybe Gauthier is a 4*...it's close.

My OP didn't ask who inherited the bigger mess, but who inherited the taller task. Both coaches inherited total disasters. But that 1999 class was not as bad as this one...not close. And Clemson was nowhere near the total juggernaut they are today. Throw UGA's status into the mix. This is undoubtedly a taller task.

 

[gcock5]

Add the resurgence of UNC to the mix.

 

[DibbleDee]

Lou definitely inherited a much, much worse team. Brad’s last team was the worst team I have seen in my 40+ years. Lou’s first team’s OL couldn’t pass block or run block, he didn’t have a RB who lead the SEC in rushing much less another 5 star RB back up, he also didn’t have two 5 star D lineman. Beamer needs to win and win sooner rather than later. I will not provide him a crutch to excuse losing.

That 5* RB hasn't played a down yet and those 5* DL haven't really shown up. This team can't catch and can't tackle and can't pass block. But, again, the question was not about who inherited the worse team. But who inherited the taller task.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

Not meaning to bash Beamer, but it is a head scratcher that he chose to remain at OU with just weeks left in the recruiting period.
How can anyone expect a recruit to commit to some of the coaches still on campus, when they will in all probability be gone.
I wan't to give Beamer the benefit of the doubt, but he's not making it easy.

 

[DibbleDee]

Add the resurgence of UNC to the mix.

Yes, all 3 of our major recruiting rivals are performing at a much higher level than us right now. One is a juggernaut and arguably the top program in college football right now. One is pushing for elite status. And the other is surging back.

This team may not be as bad as that 1998 team, but it's close. If we're better, it's not by much.

However, the environment Beamer faces is much more daunting, by several orders of magnitude, than what Lou faced in 1998/9. Based on Clemson alone. They were bad then. They are arguably the top program in college football now.

 

[DibbleDee]

Not meaning to bash Beamer, but it is a head scratcher that he chose to remain at OU with just weeks left in the recruiting period.
How can anyone expect a recruit to commit to some of the coaches still on campus, when they will in all probability be gone.
I wan't to give Beamer the benefit of the doubt, but he's not making it easy.

It's really the bowl game nonsense that screws things up. If not for that, we probably would have had some coaching moves made by now. Having that dumb bowl game looming necessitates retaining the current staff. And that combined with most, if not all, of Beamer's assistant targets still being currently employed by other P5 teams.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

That 5* RB hasn't played a down yet and those 5* DL haven't really shown up. This team can't catch and can't tackle and can't pass block. But, again, the question was not about who inherited the worse team. But who inherited the taller task.

Burch flashed last year when he played, he was also dealing with an injury. Pickens was solid, and when not double teamed did well.

I think the pass blocking argument is not totally valid at this point. When it became clear to teams we only had one pass catcher they loaded the box and came after us big time. At the beginning of the year, think UT and Florida games, when it was not known we had only one option, Hill had a fair amount of time to pass.

 

[DibbleDee]

Burch flashed last year when he played, he was also dealing with an injury. Pickens was solid, and when not double teamed did well.

I think the pass blocking argument is not totally valid at this point. When it became clear to teams we only had one pass catcher they loaded the box and came after us big time. At the beginning of the year, think UT and Florida games, when it was not known we had only one option, Hill had a fair amount of time to pass.

I dunno. Our OL is largely garbage, that's all I can say.

 

[Six Million Dollar Man]

Lou definitely inherited a much, much worse team. Brad’s last team was the worst team I have seen in my 40+ years. Lou’s first team’s OL couldn’t pass block or run block, he didn’t have a RB who lead the SEC in rushing much less another 5 star RB back up, he also didn’t have two 5 star D lineman. Beamer needs to win and win sooner rather than later. I will not provide him a crutch to excuse losing.

He just needs steady improvement and a product on the field that passes the eyeball test. Improvement in recruiting, player development, etc. Stuff we were not seeing the past five years. He will get five or six years if he does those things. I don't expect much record wise next year.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

I dunno. Our OL is largely garbage, that's all I can say.

yeah that garbage OL got us a 1000 yard rusher.

 

[uscg1984]

Anybody remember how freaking good Tennessee and Florida were in the late 90s and early 2000s? I dont ever remember going into any of those games thinking we had a chance - because we didnt.

 

[DibbleDee]

Anybody remember how freaking good Tennessee and Florida were in the late 90s and early 2000s? I dont ever remember going into any of those games thinking we had a chance - because we didnt.

Yep. They were stellar. We never even had a hope of a prayer in those games. Especially UF. But at least they weren't our primary regional recruiting rivals.

 

[DibbleDee]

yeah that garbage OL got us a 1000 yard rusher.

It was discussed in other threads. That seems to be more credited to Bobo's scheming. That said, you're the first poster on here who thinks highly of our OL performance this year. Maybe so.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

It was discussed in other threads. That seems to be more credited to Bobo's scheming. That said, you're the first poster on here who thinks highly of our OL performance this year. Maybe so.

Highly? no. Hot garbage? no. They were average.

 

[cadcock]

Pass blocking is not just an OL issue, it is very integrated with the QB's accuracy, making reads quickly and getting the ball out, escapability as well as WR's who can get separation, take the top off the D and actually catch.

 

[DibbleDee]

Highly? no. Hot garbage? no. They were average.

Perhaps. It's debatable for sure.

In any event, the team, overall, was very, very bad. As bad as 1998? Maybe not quite that bad, but it's at least a discussion to have. We have some talented pieces on this team, for sure, but it's not about having talented pieces, it's about how the pieces perform as a whole. From that perspective, there's not a marked difference between 1998 and now (we seem to be the only fan base that tries to differentiate between shades of awful).

To the point of the OP, though, the environment that Beamer faces is far more daunting than the one Lou faced. And it's not particularly close.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Lou definitely inherited a much, much worse team. Brad’s last team was the worst team I have seen in my 40+ years. Lou’s first team’s OL couldn’t pass block or run block, he didn’t have a RB who lead the SEC in rushing much less another 5 star RB back up, he also didn’t have two 5 star D lineman. Beamer needs to win and win sooner rather than later. I will not provide him a crutch to excuse losing.

What Coach Beamer is inheriting is a roster full of holes. No linebackers, (Green, Staley and Jones are gone) no real safety, no rush end to disrupt passers, no WRs and a so-so offensive line. A couple of highly rated DTs and a couple of running backs do not overcome those weaknesses.

Larry left us in really bad shape. He may have done more damage to the culture of the program than Brad Scott. (He had a few skill players that Lou was able to develop like Brian Scott and Phil Petty)

If I were to rank the two situations I'd say they are about equal. The problem is that Lou had a history of rebuilding programs. Shane does not. He's going to learn on the job. So that might make it a worse situation for us.

 

[milehighcock93]

Add Beamer to the lengthy list of new-hire coaches that have inherited a steep mountain to climb at SC. Rebuild part____?

 

[rogue cock]

Lou definitely inherited a much, much worse team. Brad’s last team was the worst team I have seen in my 40+ years. Lou’s first team’s OL couldn’t pass block or run block, he didn’t have a RB who lead the SEC in rushing much less another 5 star RB back up, he also didn’t have two 5 star D lineman. Beamer needs to win and win sooner rather than later. I will not provide him a crutch to excuse losing.

Completely agree. He inherited a much better roster than many are giving credit for (just to find another way to bash others). Even a couple of the freshmen receivers are very good....just inexperienced.

 

[DibbleDee]

Has any incoming coach ever faced a situation where we were among the worst teams in the SEC and Clemson was arguably the premiere program in all of college football?

If the answer is "no" then Beamer is walking into the tallest task in our program's history.

If the answer is "yes" then I want to know who that coach was.

 

[Garnet chicken]

He has at least a 5 year grace period built in with what he has to work with. Anybody expecting anything significant before then isn't being realistic. Just settle in and hope that we can get a few upsets in the next few years. Not gonna happen overnight with this mess.

I would say a 3 year grace period. If there is no improvement, the experiment didn't work and there's no need to drag it on like Muschamp.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

Perhaps. It's debatable for sure.

In any event, the team, overall, was very, very bad. As bad as 1998? Maybe not quite that bad, but it's at least a discussion to have. We have some talented pieces on this team, for sure, but it's not about having talented pieces, it's about how the pieces perform as a whole. From that perspective, there's not a marked difference between 1998 and now (we seem to be the only fan base that tries to differentiate between shades of awful).

To the point of the OP, though, the environment that Beamer faces is far more daunting than the one Lou faced. And it's not particularly close.

You are also comparing a season in which it was only SEC games.

 

[rogue cock]

What Coach Beamer is inheriting is a roster full of holes. No linebackers, (Green, Staley and Jones are gone) no real safety, no rush end to disrupt passers, no WRs and a so-so offensive line. A couple of highly rated DTs and a couple of running backs do not overcome those weaknesses.

Larry left us in really bad shape. He may have done more damage to the culture of the program than Brad Scott. (He had a few skill players that Lou was able to develop like Brian Scott and Phil Petty)

If I were to rank the two situations I'd say they are about equal. The problem is that Lou had a history of rebuilding programs. Shane does not. He's going to learn on the job. So that might make it a worse situation for us.

Completely disagree. Also we had at least 2 LBs commits that would help greatly, but no coach has been around to recruit them. Tatum and Steele are impressive. We have Powers and Caldwell at WR...both young but extremely talented. Youth does not mean lack of talent!!!

 

[DibbleDee]

You are also comparing a season in which it was only SEC games.

Yes, I am aware. Recruits don't care. They see 2-8, they see 2-8. But, I don't know why you're refusing to actually address the point of the OP. I don't really care to quibble over which team sucked less.

It's the overall task that Beamer faces. I'll restate the question from post #24:

Has any incoming coach ever faced a situation where we were among the worst teams in the SEC and Clemson was arguably the premiere program in all of college football?

And I'll add the question: When has a coach walked into a worse recruiting class?

 

[76MACC]

Not meaning to bash Beamer, but it is a head scratcher that he chose to remain at OU with just weeks left in the recruiting period.
How can anyone expect a recruit to commit to some of the coaches still on campus, when they will in all probability be gone.
I wan't to give Beamer the benefit of the doubt, but he's not making it easy.

What OU gained from having Beamer the last 10 or so days is minuscule compared to what we lost in building momentum around recruiting and putting together a new staff. I fear we unnecessarily (once again) shot ourselves in the foot by letting it play out this way. Tanner could have stipulated that Beamer be immediately on the ground 24/7. You think he would have turned us down over that for “HIS DREAM JOB”? No way. Tanner let this happen this way.

 

[rogue cock]

What OU gained from having Beamer the last 10 or so days is minuscule compared to what we lost in building momentum around recruiting and a putting together a new staff. I fear we unnecessarily shot ourselves in the foot by letting it play out this way. Tanner could have stipulated that Beamer be immediately on the ground 24/7. You think he would turn us down over that for “HIS DREAM JOB”? No way. Tanner le this happen this way.

People actually believe that Tanner was calling the shots on this one? If so, I have ocean front property in Nevada that I'd love to sell you.

 

[76MACC]

People actually believe that Tanner was calling the shots on this one? If so, I have ocean front property in Nevada that I'd love to sell you.

Thanks, but I don’t need another ocean front house.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

Yes, I am aware. Recruits don't care. They see 2-8, they see 2-8. But, I don't know why you're refusing to actually address the point of the OP. I don't really care to quibble over which team sucked less.

It's the overall task that Beamer faces. I'll restate the question from post #24:

Has any incoming coach ever faced a situation where we were among the worst teams in the SEC and Clemson was arguably the premiere program in all of college football?

And I'll add the question: When has a coach walked into a worse recruiting class?

Holtz walked into a bad situation, Spurrier did as well. Clemson is one thing, but don't forget Tenn was stronger when Holtz took over, and the recruited SC just as strong as clemson does.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Completely disagree. Also we had at least 2 LBs commits that would help greatly, but no coach has been around to recruit them. Tatum and Steele are impressive. We have Powers and Caldwell at WR...both young but extremely talented. Youth does not mean lack of talent!!!

So you don't feel like Beamer should get a break? You feel like he should start winning right away?

I think the team culture is horrible and is similar to what Holtz faced when he got here. Holtz turned it around in one season because he was experienced at rebuilds.

Larry = Brad.

 

[DibbleDee]

Holtz walked into a bad situation, Spurrier did as well. Clemson is one thing, but don't forget Tenn was stronger when Holtz took over, and the recruited SC just as strong as clemson does.

Every coach we've ever had has walked into a bad situation (or at least we've never had a coach walk into a good situation...arguably Sparky Woods did). And, yes, as noted above, UF and UT were juggernauts back in the 90s, but that's nothing at all compared to what we face now with Clemson. You simply cannot overestimate the impact of having your instate rival being the premiere program in college football while you are floundering near the bottom of your own conference. Throw UGA and UNC into the mix. It's just not even close.

Our 3 primary regional recruiting rivals have 2021 class ranks of 3, 5 and 14. Those same 3 schools in 2020 were 1, 3 and 13. We have never in our history had to make up a bigger recruiting gap than what we face now.

 

[coolcock2001]

He has at least a 5 year grace period built in

 

[GamecockinHouston]

Every coach we've ever had has walked into a bad situation (or at least we've never had a coach walk into a good situation...arguably Sparky Woods did). And, yes, as noted above, UF and UT were juggernauts back in the 90s, but that's nothing at all compared to what we face now with Clemson. You simply cannot overestimate the impact of having your instate rival being the premiere program in college football while you are floundering near the bottom of your own conference. Throw UGA and UNC into the mix. It's just not even close.

Our 3 primary regional recruiting rivals have 2021 class ranks of 3, 5 and 14. Those same 3 schools in 2020 were 1, 3 and 13. We have never in our history had to make up a bigger recruiting gap than what we face now.

Whatever you say. It's always been this way at Carolina. You are way overblowing this.

 

[rogue cock]

So you don't feel like Beamer should get a break? You feel like he should start winning right away?

I think the team culture is horrible and is similar to what Holtz faced when he got here. Holtz turned it around in one season because he was experienced at rebuilds.

Larry = Brad.

I think he should be competitive right away. And, no, he shouldn't get a break due to the roster. The team talent is nowhere close to being as bad as it was when Holtz took over....sorry, been around for a lot of Carolina football, and I am not buying that. It is more going to have to do with how good Beamer and his staff is at putting together the talent and getting them to play on the same page. Talent is not the issue....the culture was.

 

[DibbleDee]

Whatever you say. It's always been this way at Carolina. You are way overblowing this.

How can it always have been this way when Clemson has never in their history been the premiere program in college football? When have we ever faced a time when Clemson, UGA and UNC were ALL as good as they are right now? Never and never.

I presume you didn't read to the end of my OP (shame on you) because you would see that I said it's not doom and gloom. I'm not predicting 10 years of winless seasons. As I said in my OP, I'm excited about Beamer. I think he has the right mindset and will get us straightened out fairly quickly. It's just the stark reality that our program has never faced, at one time, all the challenge it now faces. I think Beamer is the right guy to tackle it though, and it won't take as long as people think.

 

[rogue cock]

How can it always have been this way when Clemson has never in their history been the premiere program in college football? When have we ever faced a time when Clemson, UGA and UNC were ALL as good as they are right now? Never and never.

I presume you didn't read to the end of my OP (shame on you) because you would see that I said it's not doom and gloom. I'm not predicting 10 years of winless seasons. As I said in my OP, I'm excited about Beamer. I think he has the right mindset and will get us straightened out fairly quickly. It's just the stark reality that our program has never faced, at one time, all the challenge it now faces. I think Beamer is the right guy to tackle it though, and it won't take as long as people think.

We have faced times when UGA, UT and Clemson were all at the top or UGA, UT and UNC, and you can throw in Ga Tech for some years. UT actually recruited this state as well, or better, than UGA, UNC and GaTech did in their heydays.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

You are obsessed with Clemson. Just because Clemson is strong doesn't mean we haven't dealt with the same issues in the past. It's SEC football, where you also in the past dealt with a strong Florida State, Miami, VT, Ga Tech at times and so on who are also in our footprint. It's nothing new, Clemson is strong, so be it, others are down.