When has an incoming coach faced a taller task?

[Gamecock Lifer]

Maybe Gauthier is a 4*...it's close.

My OP didn't ask who inherited the bigger mess, but who inherited the taller task. Both coaches inherited total disasters. But that 1999 class was not as bad as this one...not close. And Clemson was nowhere near the total juggernaut they are today. Throw UGA's status into the mix. This is undoubtedly a taller task.

Signing day has not passed yet... “the numbers always work out”. Not likely we get a ton between now and Feb, but they can make up ground in the transfer portal (hopefully we do not LOSE ground to transfers out!!) which (assuming they change the rule) is something Lou did not have working in his favor back then. Both are tough jobs though no doubt!

 

[SLODAWG]

Maybe Gauthier is a 4*...it's close.

My OP didn't ask who inherited the bigger mess, but who inherited the taller task. Both coaches inherited total disasters. But that 1999 class was not as bad as this one...not close. And Clemson was nowhere near the total juggernaut they are today. Throw UGA's status into the mix. This is undoubtedly a taller task.

Agree. The pressue on Beamer to show progress (win) will be immense. It isn't just Georgia and Clemson which pose problems for SC. Their permanent coss-division rival look like they are becoming a force. In fact, with the exception of Vandy, it's hard to find an SEC program that looks worse off than SC at the moment.

 

[DibbleDee]

Signing day has not passed yet... “the numbers always work out”. Not likely we get a ton between now and Feb, but they can make up ground in the transfer portal (hopefully we do not LOSE ground to transfers out!!) which (assuming they change the rule) is something Lou did not have working in his favor back then. Both are tough jobs though no doubt!

Yes, the transfer portal is really our only hope, but how often do GOOD players transfer? We're not picking up any Justin Fields via the transfer portal. Most transfers end up transferring b/c they aren't good enough to get playing time on their own time. It is what it is. Like I said, I'm not doom and gloom. It's the worst overall situation an incoming coach has ever faced, but I think Beamer is up to the task.

 

[DibbleDee]

Agree. The pressue on Beamer to show progress (win) will be immense. It isn't just Georgia and Clemson which pose problems for SC. Their permanent coss-division rival look like they are becoming a force. In fact, with the exception of Vandy, it's hard to find an SEC program that looks worse off than SC at the moment.

Well, yeah, I didn't even get that deep into it. The situation is bad enough if you just look regionally.

 

[SpurrierWalkedOnBeer]

There has never been a worse time to be a supporter of Carolina athletics.

 

[bucketdad]

Good news is Beamer can afford to age 10 years in his first. Old guys... not so much.

 

[DibbleDee]

There has never been a worse time to be a supporter of Carolina athletics.

I suspect next year will exceed the expectations of most.

 

[OldWiseCock]

I think he should be competitive right away. And, no, he shouldn't get a break due to the roster. The team talent is nowhere close to being as bad as it was when Holtz took over....sorry, been around for a lot of Carolina football, and I am not buying that. It is more going to have to do with how good Beamer and his staff is at putting together the talent and getting them to play on the same page. Talent is not the issue....the culture was.

First, I was against the hire. I didn't think it was a bad hire, but we could have done better. We needed an experienced guy to fix our problems. But it is what it is, and I'm going to give the guy a break.

Second, the problems we have are culture + talent. Both fall directly on Larry's lap.

Larry sold us a bill of goods as a talent evaluator and recruiter. Sure, he brought in some individuals like Pickens, Lloyd, Burch and Doty. But his best teams were with Spurrier's holdovers. Once the team was composed of guys he handpicked the performances declined.

The current OVERALL talent level is below the level it should be to compete in the SEC. Whether it is better than what Holtz had no one can say until we see how competitive they are next year.

Culture problems can take 2-3 seasons to overcome. Some guys might need to be told to leave if they won't play team football.

The other reason we are going to have to be patient is because we hired a guy with no HC experience. He's going to deal with problems he has never had to face head-on. Tough decisions will have to be made. He's no Lou Holtz or Steve Spurrier. (But I do think he will be a better HC than Larry.)

Let's hope he is a fast learner.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

Yes, the transfer portal is really our only hope, but how often do GOOD players transfer? We're not picking up any Justin Fields via the transfer portal. Most transfers end up transferring b/c they aren't good enough to get playing time on their own time. It is what it is. Like I said, I'm not doom and gloom. It's the worst overall situation an incoming coach has ever faced, but I think Beamer is up to the task.

Quite often really good players transfer- remember when TAMU lost muktiple 5* QBs to transfer within a year of each other? Kyler Murray was one... Kenny Hill (Kenny Trill) of Gamecocks destroying fame- was another if I recall... Baker Mayfield transferred from Texas Tech to OU, Jaylen Hurts, Joe Burrow, Cam Newton (went Juco route between UF and AU, kinda differrnt).. These big name guys show up at a school, don’t get the PT they expect or have some other issue and transfer... Happens more and more often at positions all over the field! That TE from UGA when Beamer left is a good example of one who transferred to be “closer to home” but got denied the waiver and had to sit...

I am not expecting to get a “bunch” of guys like that to pick SC, but the expectation is we will see a LOT more transfers this year if they remove the restriction to have to sit out a year, and when you couple in that many guys are committing this year “sight unseen” due to covid... Who knows!? I feel we have a lot to offer to transfers and coaches in the past here did not seem to play that game enough- we have immediate needs for players to come in and make an impact in year one in the SEC. We have great weather, great facilities, fan involvement should be high after the coaching change, we have shown we can put guys in the league, even off our bad teams.. Who knows what will happen with transfers but Beamer has built relationships with a ton of coaches and players... May be he is well positioned to take advantage of this new opportunity?? We shall see, but I do expect that portal to be a focus especially for schools like ours with a coaching transition, needing to fill gaps fast.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

First, I was against the hire. I didn't think it was a bad hire, but we could have done better. We needed an experienced guy to fix our problems. But it is what it is, and I'm going to give the guy a break.

Second, the problems we have are culture + talent. Both fall directly on Larry's lap.

Larry sold us a bill of goods as a talent evaluator and recruiter. Sure, he brought in some individuals like Pickens, Lloyd, Burch and Doty. But his best teams were with Spurrier's holdovers. Once the team was composed of guys he handpicked the performances declined.

The current OVERALL talent level is below the level it should be to compete in the SEC. Whether it is better than what Holtz had no one can say until we see how competitive they are next year.

Culture problems can take 2-3 seasons to overcome. Some guys might need to be told to leave if they won't play team football.

The other reason we are going to have to be patient is because we hired a guy with no HC experience. He's going to deal with problems he has never had to face head-on. Tough decisions will have to be made. He's no Lou Holtz or Steve Spurrier. (But I do think he will be a better HC than Larry.)

Let's hope he is a fast learner.

Larry?? 😂

 

[rogue cock]

First, I was against the hire. I didn't think it was a bad hire, but we could have done better. We needed an experienced guy to fix our problems. But it is what it is, and I'm going to give the guy a break.

Second, the problems we have are culture + talent. Both fall directly on Larry's lap.

Larry sold us a bill of goods as a talent evaluator and recruiter. Sure, he brought in some individuals like Pickens, Lloyd, Burch and Doty. But his best teams were with Spurrier's holdovers. Once the team was composed of guys he handpicked the performances declined.

The current OVERALL talent level is below the level it should be to compete in the SEC. Whether it is better than what Holtz had no one can say until we see how competitive they are next year.

Culture problems can take 2-3 seasons to overcome. Some guys might need to be told to leave if they won't play team football.

The other reason we are going to have to be patient is because we hired a guy with no HC experience. He's going to deal with problems he has never had to face head-on. Tough decisions will have to be made. He's no Lou Holtz or Steve Spurrier. (But I do think he will be a better HC than Larry.)

Let's hope he is a fast learner.

I agree with most of that. Still think our talent level is better than most believe it to be, but we will find out. Agree that culture was, and will continue to be for a period, a huge problem. I am with you regarding Beamer. I had my favorites and complained about the hire the day it was announced and promised no more. I am behind Beamer 100%....still have some concerns (especially since what I believe were our best three recruits decommitted and have now signed elsewhere).

 

[OldWiseCock]

Larry?? 😂

That's his first name according to property records in Lexington County. I don't know where the CWM came from. Unless he has a brother named Larry who took title to his Lake Murray house.

You know, "his other brother Larry."

 

[rogue cock]

That's his first name according to property records in Lexington County. I don't know where the CWM came from. Unless he has a brother named Larry who took title to his Lake Murray house.

You know, "his other brother Larry."

William Lawrence Muschamp....probably uses Larry so it would be harder for the average fan/stalker to find him so easily.

 

[OldWiseCock]

William Lawrence Muschamp....probably uses Larry so it would be harder for the average fan/stalker to find him so easily.

Where did we get the initials CWM? I always assumed (until I saw those tax records) that his full name was Charles William Muschamp.

 

[rogue cock]

Where did we get the initials CWM? I always assumed (until I saw those tax records) that his full name was Charles William Muschamp.

Coach Will Muschamp

 

[DibbleDee]

Just setting it straight now that this is the overall crappiest situation any head football coach has ever walked into here so that when Beamer does get things turned around folks can't then come back and say "Well, it really wasn't that bad of a situation b/c of...."

 

[rogue cock]

Just setting it straight now that this is the overall crappiest situation any head football coach has ever walked into here so that when Beamer does get things turned around folks can't then come back and say "Well, it really wasn't that bad of a situation b/c of...."

Hyperbole....but you'll catch a few gullible ones.

 

[PaleoCock]

It's all the great unknown. Muschamp recruited some very good players but it was also very clear that player development was sorely lacking. The few standouts we had came in with gobs of talent and were self-starters (e.g. Bryan Edwards, etc.)

 

[OldWiseCock]

It's all the great unknown. Muschamp recruited some very good players but it was also very clear that player development was sorely lacking. The few standouts we had came in with gobs of talent and were self-starters (e.g. Bryan Edwards, etc.)

Muschamp played favorites with the guys he sold on playing here to be NFL stars.

 

[Wedge Antilles]

Before even seeing this thread I was going through NFL draft stuff on ESPN. They had the top 10 prospects listed at every position (16 different positions including long snappers) and Jaycee Horn was the only Gamecock on any list. That is an empty cupboard

 

[Coq.de.Combat]

Lou had a far worse situation.

 

[sclawman77]

Guys, take comfort in knowing that Tanner has full confidence in Beamer-just like he did with Muschamp.

 

[Joelmoo2]

This is a ten year fix because it will take another five years to convince boosters the bot and Tanner needed to be gone in 2020. Here's to hoping 2030 will be better.

 

[Tiger4211]

Beamer takes over a team coming off consecutive 4-win and 2-win seasons. And, we weren't even a competitive 2-win team this season. Add into that, the recruiting disaster he inherited. The word "disaster" doesn't even do it justice. It has to be our worst ever, right? The class currently sits at 107th, with 9 total recruits, all 3*. The highest ranked player is 619th in the nation. Vandy, by comparison, checks in at #48. The only P5 team with a worse class is Oregon State. On top of that, Clemson has been in the top 10 for the last 3 recruiting cycles and has played in 4 national title games, winning 2 since 2015. UGA is also on a run, pushing for the CFP each year.

Holtz, indeed, inherited a disaster in 1999. However, Clemson was not nearly what they are now. While we went 1-10 in 1998, Clemson only went 3-8. Clemson at that time was in a pretty bad funk, though not as bad of a funk as ours. It was a bad team, but the environment was more manageable than it is now. And, let's face it, there's not really any difference between 2-8 and 1-10.

When you consider the overall state of our team/program, the absolutely catastrophic recruiting situation and the environment with Clemson being a juggernaut and UGA being near-elite, I don't see where an incoming coach has faced a more daunting task.

That said, I don't believe it's all doom and gloom. I think Beamer is up to the task. I'm actually excited to see what he can do next year. I believe he has the makeup to get something out of nothing.

The answer is never, top to bottom as a program and what it's up against overall internally and externally. 2011 - 2013 happened because of Steve Spurrier and the fact that Clemson, Florida, and Tennessee 3 schools who he beat has and had during those 3 years better histories, traditions and notoriety were going through coaching changes (Dabo = greenhorn, OC,DC,HC) and Georgia facing a up hill battle with Mark Ritcht as HC vs Steve Spurrier who's drive to always beat or embarrass Georgia as a player and HC. The 4 schools I have mentioned are pretty good right now and have a lot more to sell historically and it isn't close vs UofSC. To me the facilities are a wash because everybody has or will have facilities, this is happening nationally! Shane to me should be able to relate to the high school kids and their coaches and families when listen to him talk and being 43 years old has a HC at a major university. That's a plus!

 

[SOSUSC]

How can it always have been this way when Clemson has never in their history been the premiere program in college football? When have we ever faced a time when Clemson, UGA and UNC were ALL as good as they are right now? Never and never.

I presume you didn't read to the end of my OP (shame on you) because you would see that I said it's not doom and gloom. I'm not predicting 10 years of winless seasons. As I said in my OP, I'm excited about Beamer. I think he has the right mindset and will get us straightened out fairly quickly. It's just the stark reality that our program has never faced, at one time, all the challenge it now faces. I think Beamer is the right guy to tackle it though, and it won't take as long as people think.

You suck up to Beamer. Like a Beamer Baby!

I have not seen any other poster cover for Beamer as much as you do. It seems to convey, from your posts, that maybe you think Beamer is not up to the task. In any event Ray did the hiring and Ray's prowess at hiring is well known. Maybe it is a mountain of a task (maybe it is), but the fawning! The fawning is just a bit too much. Pipe down.

This was a questionable hire. There were others who may have not looked at this as a 'mountain' of a task. I hope beamer succeeds. The probability is not high. The man has never been a HC, DC, or OC.

 

[Crazy Cock 89]

Gauthier is a 4*. Just sayin.

GamecockScoop

The definitive source for all South Carolina news.

southcarolina.rivals.com

I think Lou took over a bigger mess. We had won ONE game the year before he came in and he won ZERO his first season because we were so broken...

No he Didn't. Lou had Sheldon Brown, Andre Goodman, Phil Petty. Brown and Goodman played in the League. Lou had Offensive Lineman, but about everyone of them was injured. They had to bring Lineman from the D to play on the O-line.

Lou had some talent to work with. The talent just needed to be coached up. Can't stand Brad Scott, but he did leave some talent. Hope Scott's son Fails as a HC.

Muschamp may be the worst Coach we have ever had.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Gauthier is a 4*. Just sayin.

GamecockScoop

The definitive source for all South Carolina news.

southcarolina.rivals.com

I think Lou took over a bigger mess. We had won ONE game the year before he came in and he won ZERO his first season because we were so broken...

Yes, but Lou's first team in 1999 played hard and played with spirit as well as I remember. I have a lot more respect for the 1999 team than I do for the 2020 team.

Now this blows me away, Vandy is ranked 48 while we are ranked 107 in recruiting. With our facilities it's simply pathetic. It's beyond pathetic to be honest.

 

[Gamecock1963]

I do believe coach Beamer has taken over a culture problem team that muschamp left behind. In saying that, I believe re have talent that is not developed imo. I feel great about coach Beamer hiring the best coaches to correct the problem and do much better in terms of winning games that most fans don't believe will happen. Im convinced that we have a much better team and wins and losses that most believe. Im positively arguing my point that my gut feels comfortable with. In that being said, Go Gamecocks. would love to here comments?

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

Yes, but Lou's first team in 1999 played hard and played with spirit as well as I remember. I have a lot more respect for the 1999 team than I do for the 2020 team.

Now this blows me away, Vandy is ranked 48 while we are ranked 107 in recruiting. With our facilities it's simply pathetic. It's beyond pathetic to be honest.

it is.. Our recruiting has been awful this cycle, we should probably fire the coach or something...

 

[DarkHorse2001]

Beamer takes over a team coming off consecutive 4-win and 2-win seasons. And, we weren't even a competitive 2-win team this season. Add into that, the recruiting disaster he inherited. The word "disaster" doesn't even do it justice. It has to be our worst ever, right? The class currently sits at 107th, with 9 total recruits, all 3*. The highest ranked player is 619th in the nation. Vandy, by comparison, checks in at #48. The only P5 team with a worse class is Oregon State. On top of that, Clemson has been in the top 10 for the last 3 recruiting cycles and has played in 4 national title games, winning 2 since 2015. UGA is also on a run, pushing for the CFP each year.

Holtz, indeed, inherited a disaster in 1999. However, Clemson was not nearly what they are now. While we went 1-10 in 1998, Clemson only went 3-8. Clemson at that time was in a pretty bad funk, though not as bad of a funk as ours. It was a bad team, but the environment was more manageable than it is now. And, let's face it, there's not really any difference between 2-8 and 1-10.

When you consider the overall state of our team/program, the absolutely catastrophic recruiting situation and the environment with Clemson being a juggernaut and UGA being near-elite, I don't see where an incoming coach has faced a more daunting task.

That said, I don't believe it's all doom and gloom. I think Beamer is up to the task. I'm actually excited to see what he can do next year. I believe he has the makeup to get something out of nothing.

Wouldn't the situation you just described scream for a proven experienced winning head coach, instead of a position coach with limited experience? Are you happy with Ray's latest coaching hire no matter who it was just because you are a USC fan? What has Beamer done so far in his coaching career that gives you the confidence that he can fix this mess? Do not take my questions as an attack on you. I want to know what you see that I do not. Please don't tell me the fluff stuff about how he loves us, and some former players love him. That does not say much if its the reason for hiring a man to repair our latest crash.

 

[JGH 35]

Larry?? 😂

That's his first name according to property records in Lexington County. I don't know where the CWM came from. Unless he has a brother named Larry who took title to his Lake Murray house.

You know, "his other brother Larry."

I guess that explains why he had Moe and Curly for coordinators.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

Wouldn't the situation you just described scream for a proven experienced winning head coach, instead of a position coach with limited experience? Are you happy with Ray's latest coaching hire no matter who it was just because you are a USC fan? What has Beamer done so far in his coaching career that gives you the confidence that he can fix this mess? Do not take my questions as an attack on you. I want to know what you see that I do not. Please don't tell me the fluff stuff about how he loves us, and some former players love him. That does not say much if its the reason for hiring a man to repair our latest crash.

Seriously, move on or move out. Beamer is here, and personally I think he is going to succeed here, based on his experience that has gotten him to this point. But seriously, you crying is past being old.

 

[DarkHorse2001]

Seriously, move on or move out. Beamer is here, and personally I think he is going to succeed here, based on his experience that has gotten him to this point. But seriously, you crying is past being old.

My question was not directed to you. Your attitude is either love it or get off this board.
But since you did jump into my post, explain what experiences Shane has that made him the best suited for this monumental task that DibbleDee described.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

My question was not directed to you. Your attitude is either love it or get off this board.
But since you did jump into my post, explain what experiences Shane has that made him the best suited for this monumental task that DibbleDee described.

I have answered it before, and no matter what I say, you opinion is not going to change, so no need to waste my time. My attitude is yes, get behind the new coach or honestly shut the hell up. Sorry the guy you wanted wasn't hired, get over it and move on. The negativity isn't doing any good at all.

 

[Legendary Cock]

I guess that explains why he had Moe and Curly for coordinators.

Now you know this isn't true. Moe would've knocked some damn sense into him at some point.

 

[DarkHorse2001]

I have answered it before, and no matter what I say, you opinion is not going to change, so no need to waste my time. My attitude is yes, get behind the new coach or honestly shut the hell up. Sorry the guy you wanted wasn't hired, get over it and move on. The negativity isn't doing any good at all.

The negativity is because Ray just hired a rookie head coach for this very difficult job. You avoided giving me any specifics for why this is a good hire. Win me over with facts not fluff.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

The negativity is because Ray just hired a rookie head coach for this very difficult job. You avoided giving me any specifics for why this is a good hire. Win me over with facts not fluff.

Not my job nor do I care to "win you over".

 

[DarkHorse2001]

Not my job nor do I care to "win you over".

You have nothing. Cant you see that is the reason why many Gamecock fans are questioning another puzzling Ray Tanner hire? If we keep repeating the same mistakes why do you expect different results?

 

[TheReelEss]

Never in the history of this planet has a mere mortal man faced such adversity!!!

 

[GamecockinHouston]

You have nothing. Cant you see that is the reason why many Gamecock fans are questioning another puzzling Ray Tanner hire? If we keep repeating the same mistakes why do you expect different results?

My last comment to you on this, a majority of fans are behind this hire, talking about 80%. The media supports the hire, not just the local guys, but the national guys who have a lot more knowledge than you and I. This is nothing close to the Muschamp hire, you just want to bi+ch, moan and complain because you think you know better.

The Beamer hire is different than anything we have done in the past.

Enjoy, but not going down a rabbit hole with another negative guy.