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At Least We Can't Say That Coach Holbrook Ain't Trying

Perfect Game has rated USC's incoming 2016 class as #1 in the nation:

http://www.perfectgame.org/rankings/Recruiting/Rankings.aspx

Coach Holbrook and crew will certainly have the personnel to get the program back on track. If it doesn't happen, the answer why will be lit up like a neon sign....


Not sure what you mean #1??? I see Vandy as #1..

Vanderbilt 15 6 140 9.33
2 Florida 12 3 96 8.00
3 North Carolina 18 2 92 5.11
4 Mississippi State 16 1 90 5.63
5 Virginia 15 2 85 5.67
6 UCLA 10 3 84 8.40
7 South Florida 16 2 84 5.25
8 Florida State 12 2 84 7.00
9 Georgia Tech 14 2 82 5.86
10 South Carolina 12 3 79 6.58
11 Oregon 18 0 76 4.22
12 Oklahoma 13 1 72 5.54
13 Louisville 11 0 72 6.55
14 Clemson 12 0 70 5.83
 
Looking at you link... This is out dated, so you maybe not be correct...

South Carolina's HS Recruits
Class of 2015
Nat Rank Name Pos Ht Wt B T High School Hometown St
Logan Allen LHP 6-3 205 R L IMG Academy Fletcher NC
Kyle Anderson LHP 5-11 185 L L Evans Evans GA
Danny Blair OF 6-0 190 L L IMG Academy Bel Air MD
Christopher Cullen C 6-5 204 R R West Forsyth Cumming GA
Adam Hill RHP 6-5 190 R R T L Hanna Anderson SC
T.J. Hopkins OF 6-2 175 R R Summerville Summerville SC
Cody Morris RHP 6-4 205 R R Reservoir Laurel MD
Dexter "DJ" Neal OF 6-3 210 R R Stephenson Lithonia GA
Nick Neidert RHP 6-1 185 R R Peachtree Ridge Lawrenceville GA
Hank Nichols LHP 6-5 210 R L J L Mann Greenville SC
Tyler Romanik C 6-3 205 S R Blythewood Columbia SC
Harrison Smith RHP 5-11 160 R R Wando Mount Pleasant SC
Logan (LT) "Anthony" Tolbert SS 6-3 180 L R IMG Academy Piedmont SC
Caleb Whitenton 1B 6-2 230 R R Gainesville Alto GA
 
Hence the OP opening:

"Perfect Game has rated USC's incoming 2016 class as #1 in the nation:"

Select "2016" in the drop down button, for the 2016 class rankings....
 
People need to remember though that the 2016 class won't play for us until the 2017 season. The new players for us next season are the 2015 class that is rated 10th.
 
Hence the OP opening:

"Perfect Game has rated USC's incoming 2016 class as #1 in the nation:"

Select "2016" in the drop down button, for the 2016 class rankings....
Vanderbilt still is getting the best players. WTF is their secret? that average point per player needs to be higher.
 
We need to get some of those then.
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, so I'll elaborate. They have more baseball scholarships to give than almost every other college. They have more to give than ANY team in the SEC.
 
Yeah, they have 27 to give. We have 11.7, like everyone else.
What did they do? cut a sport? Whatever. This is why the power conferences just need to drop the NCAA or start a new division. Just let these guys have full scholarships.
 
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What did they do? cut a sport? Whatever. This is why the power conferences just need to drop the NCAA or start a new division. Just let these guys have full scholarships.

It's not so much the NCAA. It's the massive (I think it's $6mill) endowment fund they have. I think they offer these same schollies to non-student athletes as well, so that's how they can get by with it. There were several threads about it back during the CWS.
 
It's not so much the NCAA. It's the massive (I think it's $6mill) endowment fund they have. I think they offer these same schollies to non-student athletes as well, so that's how they can get by with it. There were several threads about it back during the CWS.
They shouldn't need the endowment fund what I am saying. They should just offer more full baseball scholarship for every school. Not even 12 scholarships is not reasonable for a team. It should be more like 21.
 
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Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, so I'll elaborate. They have more baseball scholarships to give than almost every other college. They have more to give than ANY team in the SEC.
Also, are they doing this in a way that doesn't violate Title IX?
 
It's not so much the NCAA. It's the massive (I think it's $6mill) endowment fund they have. I think they offer these same schollies to non-student athletes as well, so that's how they can get by with it. There were several threads about it back during the CWS.

Try 4.046 billion. Vanderbilt a few years ago tapped into the endowment with a grant program (something other private ivy league schools were doing) that allows them to give out grants rather than loans if there is "demonstrated" financial need. So between academic scholarships and this grant program, most of their students and apparently all of their baseball players are receiving full rides or close to it. Plus I've seen it said that as a private institution they've given academic schollys through the endowment to ball players who couldn't even get in to the school normally. Furthermore, per NCAA rules, the 11.7 athletic scholarships for baseball can only be distributed between 27 players on the 35 man roster. Eight have to be walkons. So Vandy is in a situation where they can basically pay for the schooling of even their walkons. So in essence, they are playing with 35 recruits while everyone else plays with 27 recruits and 8 players who were asked to walk on (typically players who weren't quite good enough to ensure any athletic scholarship money out of high school). The NCAA hasn't done anything about Vanderbilt's endowment directly and it still isn't quite sure what it could do to level the playing field.
 
Our "talent level" hasn't been the problem the last few years. Granted, we didn't have Natl Champ calibur talent last year, no one does every year, but we damn sure had enough to make the postseason.
 
Our "talent level" hasn't been the problem the last few years. Granted, we didn't have Natl Champ calibur talent last year, no one does every year, but we damn sure had enough to make the postseason.
Our talent level was terrible this year.
 
Try 4.046 billion. Vanderbilt a few years ago tapped into the endowment with a grant program (something other private ivy league schools were doing) that allows them to give out grants rather than loans if there is "demonstrated" financial need. So between academic scholarships and this grant program, most of their students and apparently all of their baseball players are receiving full rides or close to it. Plus I've seen it said that as a private institution they've given academic schollys through the endowment to ball players who couldn't even get in to the school normally. Furthermore, per NCAA rules, the 11.7 athletic scholarships for baseball can only be distributed between 27 players on the 35 man roster. Eight have to be walkons. So Vandy is in a situation where they can basically pay for the schooling of even their walkons. So in essence, they are playing with 35 recruits while everyone else plays with 27 recruits and 8 players who were asked to walk on (typically players who weren't quite good enough to ensure any athletic scholarship money out of high school). The NCAA hasn't done anything about Vanderbilt's endowment directly and it still isn't quite sure what it could do to level the playing field.
If the NCAA allowed 21 scholarships for baseball. It really wouldn't matter how many walk on's any team had.
 
If the NCAA allowed 21 scholarships for baseball. It really wouldn't matter how many walk on's any team had.
That would help close the gap some, but through the endowment (academic scholarships and grants) Vandy could still offer full rides to 35 players (even though some would be classified as walkons) whereas everyone else would only be able to divide the 21 scholarships for 35 players.
 
Try 4.046 billion. Vanderbilt a few years ago tapped into the endowment with a grant program (something other private ivy league schools were doing) that allows them to give out grants rather than loans if there is "demonstrated" financial need. So between academic scholarships and this grant program, most of their students and apparently all of their baseball players are receiving full rides or close to it. Plus I've seen it said that as a private institution they've given academic schollys through the endowment to ball players who couldn't even get in to the school normally. Furthermore, per NCAA rules, the 11.7 athletic scholarships for baseball can only be distributed between 27 players on the 35 man roster. Eight have to be walkons. So Vandy is in a situation where they can basically pay for the schooling of even their walkons. So in essence, they are playing with 35 recruits while everyone else plays with 27 recruits and 8 players who were asked to walk on (typically players who weren't quite good enough to ensure any athletic scholarship money out of high school). The NCAA hasn't done anything about Vanderbilt's endowment directly and it still isn't quite sure what it could do to level the playing field.

Exactly....it's how Vandy gets so many top caliber prospects to commit to go there, when Vandy has such a high admissions policy, and how they keep them through the draft days when others for other programs opt to try the pros and get the signing bonuses. A lot of those elite prospects wouldn't be able to afford going to Vanderbilt otherwise...

It's very similar to how Vanderbilt, UNC, and Virginia suddenly shot up the rankings of college baseball and developed elite programs after being mediocre for so long. It's not necessarily the talent of the coaching staffs. They have determined how to utilize athletic endowments into an unfair advantage for them....

Stanford has had by far the largest wealth of athletic endowments for years if not decades. They obviously haven't chosen to do what Vanderbilt and others are doing, otherwise with the prep baseball talent that's over on the west coast they'd be winning CWS titles left and right these days...
 
Does the NCAA not make every school have the same number of schollies? 11.7 with at least a quarter schollie going to each player.

The problem is that many of the Vanderbilt players are not technically on scholarship. Because of their huge endowment, they give virtually every student a full ride if their family makes below a certain level( $100,000or so). Therefore if a baseball player comes from a family that makes below that level then he can receive a full ride like any other student that is admitted to Vanderbilt. That money does not count against the 11.7 because he is simply receiving the same benefit that is available to all Vandy students. " To all Vandy students" is the key phrase that allows them to get around the 11.7. I believe like most posters that college baseball is big enough to be a full scholarship sport. Give everyone 21-27 scholarships and then let the individual schools worry about meeting title IX standards.
 
I'm not sure about this but I don't think private schools are subject to Title IX. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

They absolutely are. Has nothing to do with being private or public. As for Vandy's endowment, it is true that it is significant. An institution is only as strong as its endowment. Thus why you see the largest endowments come from the best public/private schools. Tuition at many of these schools is in the 50-60k/year range. A significant endowment allows schools like Vandy to recruit nationally - and when i say recruit, i don't limit it to student-athletes. Vandy is very proud of their diversity, basically having a student from every state in the Union, but this diversity isn't just geographic, it covers EVERY demographic. So to get high intellectual kids from various economic backgrounds, the endowment provides the financial means for kids from families that couldn't dream of paying for their kid to attend Vandy. Its called Opportunity Vanderbilt. This program wasn't designed for Tim Corbin's baseball program, and is something that every school has, including South Carolina. Their endowment helps, but its not the advantage some on here want to assign to Vandy's 7-8 year run in baseball. This endowment was just as significant before Corbin arrived in the early 2000s. Their success stems from playing in the best baseball conference in college, they expanded Hawkins Field, their school is a perfect fit academically and culturally for the typical college baseball prospect. But most importantly, Tim Corbin is a master of his craft and works his tail off to be as successful as he is. Sometimes its just that, and credit should be given where credit is due. But that is tough for many of you because he spent a few years at Clemson. He also has a daughter with a degree from South Carolina. Ask Coach Tanner and he will have nothing but the finest things to say about Tim Corbin both as a coach and a human being.
 
That's his step daughter not his daughter. What Tanner said publicly about Corbin is different from what he said privately. I know for a fact he really didn't care for the way Corbin's players conducted themselves during games.
 
They absolutely are. Has nothing to do with being private or public. As for Vandy's endowment, it is true that it is significant. An institution is only as strong as its endowment. Thus why you see the largest endowments come from the best public/private schools. Tuition at many of these schools is in the 50-60k/year range. A significant endowment allows schools like Vandy to recruit nationally - and when i say recruit, i don't limit it to student-athletes. Vandy is very proud of their diversity, basically having a student from every state in the Union, but this diversity isn't just geographic, it covers EVERY demographic. So to get high intellectual kids from various economic backgrounds, the endowment provides the financial means for kids from families that couldn't dream of paying for their kid to attend Vandy. Its called Opportunity Vanderbilt. This program wasn't designed for Tim Corbin's baseball program, and is something that every school has, including South Carolina. Their endowment helps, but its not the advantage some on here want to assign to Vandy's 7-8 year run in baseball. This endowment was just as significant before Corbin arrived in the early 2000s. Their success stems from playing in the best baseball conference in college, they expanded Hawkins Field, their school is a perfect fit academically and culturally for the typical college baseball prospect. But most importantly, Tim Corbin is a master of his craft and works his tail off to be as successful as he is. Sometimes its just that, and credit should be given where credit is due. But that is tough for many of you because he spent a few years at Clemson. He also has a daughter with a degree from South Carolina. Ask Coach Tanner and he will have nothing but the finest things to say about Tim Corbin both as a coach and a human being.
Tim Corbin is an excellent coach, but the number of scholarships/ grants/ whatever you want to call them is certainly a significant advantage over other baseball programs. There's no way to get around that. The fact that they didn't care about baseball or put significant resources in the program before he got there doesnt' mean that it isn't an advantage. And I don't think I'm not knocking Corbin at all by saying that.
 
They absolutely are. Has nothing to do with being private or public. As for Vandy's endowment, it is true that it is significant. An institution is only as strong as its endowment. Thus why you see the largest endowments come from the best public/private schools. Tuition at many of these schools is in the 50-60k/year range. A significant endowment allows schools like Vandy to recruit nationally - and when i say recruit, i don't limit it to student-athletes. Vandy is very proud of their diversity, basically having a student from every state in the Union, but this diversity isn't just geographic, it covers EVERY demographic. So to get high intellectual kids from various economic backgrounds, the endowment provides the financial means for kids from families that couldn't dream of paying for their kid to attend Vandy. Its called Opportunity Vanderbilt. This program wasn't designed for Tim Corbin's baseball program, and is something that every school has, including South Carolina. Their endowment helps, but its not the advantage some on here want to assign to Vandy's 7-8 year run in baseball. This endowment was just as significant before Corbin arrived in the early 2000s. Their success stems from playing in the best baseball conference in college, they expanded Hawkins Field, their school is a perfect fit academically and culturally for the typical college baseball prospect. But most importantly, Tim Corbin is a master of his craft and works his tail off to be as successful as he is. Sometimes its just that, and credit should be given where credit is due. But that is tough for many of you because he spent a few years at Clemson. He also has a daughter with a degree from South Carolina. Ask Coach Tanner and he will have nothing but the finest things to say about Tim Corbin both as a coach and a human being.

I believe what you are talking about is the entire academic endowment that Vanderbilt has. Now you're kinda talking apples to oranges.

What we've been talking about is ATHLETIC ENDOWMENTS - or endowment funds pegged specifically for student-athletes, not just students...

They are essentially used as financial aid to assist in covering tuition fees and other expenses that are not or cannot be covered by partial scholarships. They are not student loans, and therefore are not required to be paid back. Baseball programs such as Vanderbilt, UNC, and Virginia among others began aggressively supplementing their scholarship allotments with this financial aid in the early 2000s. And since that time those baseball programs which were decent at best have now grown to powerhouse levels, with particularly deep and talented pitching staffs....staffs that otherwise would forgo college and go straight into the pros out of high school....
 
I believe what you are talking about is the entire academic endowment that Vanderbilt has. Now you're kinda talking apples to oranges.

What we've been talking about is ATHLETIC ENDOWMENTS - or endowment funds pegged specifically for student-athletes, not just students...

They are essentially used as financial aid to assist in covering tuition fees and other expenses that are not or cannot be covered by partial scholarships. They are not student loans, and therefore are not required to be paid back. Baseball programs such as Vanderbilt, UNC, and Virginia among others began aggressively supplementing their scholarship allotments with this financial aid in the early 2000s. And since that time those baseball programs which were decent at best have now grown to powerhouse levels, with particularly deep and talented pitching staffs....staffs that otherwise would forgo college and go straight into the pros out of high school....
I am not really complaining or attacking the endowment. I am attacking about only 11.7 scholarships for baseball. That is BS. There should be much more than that, another sports probably need more too which is a big reason for the power 5 conferences to get rid of the burden of having to pay for these poor schools that are costing more than they are putting back into the system.
 
There is no getting around the 11.7 scholarship rule. Period. Academic scholarships, like they award at VU, are available at schools like South Carolina. EVERY school has a need's based endowment scholarship available to ANY student-athlete that can gain admittance to said school. Federal Pell Grants are also available. The insinuation that Vandy has an advantage due to a higher than normal endowment doesn't float. All they are doing is taking advantage of the funds that are available to prospects gaining admission to an institution that are available to ALL prospective students. KEY is they have to admit these students based on their academic merits. I seriously doubt Vandy is willing to compromise their academic rep on a non-revenue sport. Have they increased their academic exceptions for high risk S/As, yeah. That started around 03-04 but this was specifically for revenue producing sports like football and men's basketball.
 
Small point, but how did the NCAA derive the 11.7 scholarships for college baseball as opposed to an even 12 or even 11.5 but why 11.7? LOL!
 
Agreed...if he flames out next year he will never coach these guys.

First of all I hope that Hollbrook does well next year for the sake of Carolina, the players, fans, etc.

But, if he doesn't do well and by that I mean at least win a Regional, I won't bet any big bucks against the fact he might be back for a 5th year since he and Tanner are friends.
 
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