I would like to have a intelligent discussion about the horrible shooting that occurred today in Boulder, Co. No politics allowed.

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Only reasonable discussion and opinions allowed.

My understanding is the shooter used an assault rifle to perform his dastardly deed.

Do you believe the banning of assault rifles would prevent these mass shooting/murders?

I don't believe for one second that the banning of assault rifles would prevent these type of shootings. If they were banned nationally I personally believe there would be an underground network of assault rifles being manufactured and sold that would make bootleg whiskey in the 1920s look like a Sunday School Picnic.

EDITED 3/25/2021 - 2:00 PM

I meant by political is not to blame all gun issues, violence, etc on one political party or the other. Example, don't blame the Republicans for all gun violence and don't blame the Democrats that want to implement some type gun reform bills, and don't blame the NRA for all the gun deaths that occur in the US.

I should have stated my intent at the very beginning but obviously didn't. Also, I intended all responses and replies to be stated in a respectful manner. Those were my intentions and I later stated them in another post, but should have given a more thorough explanation up front.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Come on! Let's get some good and meaningful discussion going about this issue.

 

[fowl_mood]

Hi Freddie. Hope you are well.

Guns are out there. The challenge is limiting their distribution. I would support tougher background checks, real red flag laws with some teeth, and applying fault for crimes committed with guns to sellers who don't do due diligence and tracking before selling, with a reasonable statute of limitations.

The kinds of guns don't matter. The kinds of people who get them do.

You and I know, though, that in a divided society with a lack of respect for all human life, it won't change much.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Hi Freddie. Hope you are well.

Guns are out there. The challenge is limiting their distribution. I would support tougher background checks, real red flag laws with some teeth, and applying fault for crimes committed with guns to sellers who don't do due diligence and tracking before selling, with a reasonable statute of limitations.

The kinds of guns don't matter. The kinds of people who get them do.

You and I know, though, that in a divided society with a lack of respect for all human life, it won't change much.

I agree with all of the above.

 

[Deut6_4-9]

You can confiscate every gun from every citizen in this Country but that will not stop people from wanting to kill or harm each other. There is only 1 thing all of these acts have in common. Hate. Pure and simple. If there is hatred in someone then they will find every thing they can get their hands on to cause harm. Matthew 22:37-40. There is only one person alive that can solve this and that is having Messiah Yeshua in your heart. Then and only then can you truly love one another.

 

[atl-cock]

A stronger emphasis on responsible gun ownership helps, which seems to pretty much sum up uscmustwin's response. Open carry can be practiced responsibly; brandishing a weapon is not an example of responsible gun ownership.

Those who wish to ban firearms in general are naive, IMO, not to mention directly running counter to the second amendment.

 

[usc_nc]

Hello Freddy
In all seriousness
Is your concern ,
How they died?
Or
The large number that died?
This of course is where the discussion begins to divide it us.
Let’s be honest.
We all have a bias
We all have our Sacred cows
When I was 18, four of my cousins were killed by drunk drivers.
In two separate accidents
A year later while in college
A friend got drunk
Drove
Crashed
Killed 2 people
If he had killed 10 people
Like Boulder Colorado
It would have made the news
Let’s be honest
We all have a bias
We all have our sacred cows.

On a related sidenote. Yesterday due to an unfortunate accident and some other incidents. For about an hour I feared my son had died. I understand the pain that the people in Boulder are going through. The pain is fresh. Honestly, the pain would’ve been the same regardless of how he died.

Very fortunately. He is alive.

 

[FORKCOCK]

We carried shotguns in our cars to high school. Never had a problem. Guns haven't changed, people have.

 

[Who Cares_Who Cares]

I'm a little confused. The thread title says "no politics allowed" and the first post is arguing against gun control policy. (Not that I favor gun control, but I recognize it as a "political" issue.)

 

[92Pony]

Here’s the thing about gun control and new gun control laws; news flash - criminals don’t obey laws.
More control/laws will not end shootings. Criminals, or those bent on killing by way of bullets, will get their hands on a gun by any means necessary. They don’t care what new law was passed. They aren’t going through a background check. They’re going to steal a gun/guns or buy an already illegal one in order to accomplish their goal.
I love the meme I see floating around saying something to the effect of; ‘x-million legal gun owners in the US. If guns were the problem, you’d know it’..... or something to that effect. It isn’t the gun(s). As mentioned above it’s the hate in the hearts of men.

 

[92Pony]

I'm a little confused. The thread title says "no politics allowed" and the first post is arguing against gun control policy. (Not that I favor gun control, but I recognize it as a "political" issue.)

It’s probably a thin line, but I think it can be discussed without bringing party names and candidate names into the discussion. I think that’s what Freddie was intending to avoid. Jmo

 

[searooster]

A stronger emphasis on responsible gun ownership helps, which seems to pretty much sum up uscmustwin's response. Open carry can be practiced responsibly; brandishing a weapon is not an example of responsible gun ownership.

Those who wish to ban firearms in general are naive, IMO, not to mention directly running counter to the second amendment.

I'm 67 years old and have never met a single individual who sincerely wanted to "ban all firearms." Maybe they're out there but I've never heard from them. And that point is irrelevant as the second amendment is here to stay. Many good points in this discussion, but I've never heard a convincing argument for permitting public ownership of military scale weapons. I own 2 firearms, and have coordinated lethal weapons training in my workplace, but the day I need an AR-15 to defend myself and my family is the day I forfeit my man card.

 

[Silver_Coconut]

Shall not be infringed.

 

[king ward]

I would like to have a intelligent discussion about the horrible shooting that occurred today in Boulder, Co. No politics allowed.

Best of luck. I'll take the under if this thread goes any length at all.

 

[scbirdhunter]

Hi Freddie. Hope you are well.

Guns are out there. The challenge is limiting their distribution. I would support tougher background checks, real red flag laws with some teeth, and applying fault for crimes committed with guns to sellers who don't do due diligence and tracking before selling, with a reasonable statute of limitations.

The kinds of guns don't matter. The kinds of people who get them do.

You and I know, though, that in a divided society with a lack of respect for all human life, it won't change much.

I mean are you joking? The kind of guns don't matter? Of course it matters. Ask any cop if he'd rather face a suspect with a hand gun or an AR 15 and see what he says. Why do you suppose we typically arm our military with automatic weapons as opposed to a bolt action 30:06?
The more rapidly you can fire a weapon the more potential damage you can inflict in a given time frame. Police usually respond to shots fired fairly rapidly. Why do you suppose the Vagas shooter selected semi-automatic weapons with a bump stock? As the owner of more guns than I can to admit I also do not agree with open carry at all. Having lunatics walking up & down the sidewalk scaring women & children is about the best way I know to aid the movement toward more gun control. Also the 2nd Amendment has reasonable restrictions that have been in place for close to 100 years
I absolutely agree that mental health is key. It's also impossible to weed out all those type individuals ahead of the act, but we need to do more.

 

[gamecox4982]

I worked in the firearms business for roughly 40 years and most people that I worked with agree that some laws need to change. The consensus is, private sales of firearms should have to include transfer of title and background check. There should also be stiff fines or jail time if the law is broken.
Also, I would bet money that the people closest to the guy involved the Colorado shooting knew this guy had issues and said nothing. Truth be known we all know someone thats a little off and should not be allowed to own a firearm of any kind. Hell I worked with people in the business that concerned me and others but fortunately they had zero access to the range.

 

[winloseortie]

Come on! Let's get some good and meaningful discussion going about this issue.

Freddie I understand your desire for a reasonable discussion, BUT anytime a human being murders 10 people including a police officer there are political and policy overtones that are just there ..... terrorism, mental health policy, gun ownership policy, public safety policy and those are the tip of the iceberg knowing nothing about the shooter except race and gender

 

[atlanta cock#]

Only reasonable discussion and opinions allowed.

My understanding is the shooter used an assault rifle to perform his dastardly deed.

Do you believe the banning of assault rifles would prevent these mass shooting/murders?

I don't believe for one second that the banning of assault rifles would prevent these type of shootings. If they were banned nationally I personally believe there would be an underground network of assault rifles being manufactured and sold that would make bootleg whiskey in the 1920s look like a Sunday School Picnic.

An AR is not an assault rifle. I’m not in favor of banning rifles. Nobody knows why this guy did it.

 

[scbirdhunter]

I'm 67 years old and have never met a single individual who sincerely wanted to "ban all firearms." Maybe they're out there but I've never heard from them. And that point is irrelevant as the second amendment is here to stay. Many good points in this discussion, but I've never heard a convincing argument for permitting public ownership of military scale weapons. I own 2 firearms, and have coordinated lethal weapons training in my workplace, but the day I need an AR-15 to defend myself and my family is the day I forfeit my man card.

Nor have I. I know they're out there but so are the people that would have no problem with Home Depot selling dynamite off the shelf. Both are fortunately in the minority

 

[TAV31]

Only reasonable discussion and opinions allowed.

My understanding is the shooter used an assault rifle to perform his dastardly deed.

Do you believe the banning of assault rifles would prevent these mass shooting/murders?

I don't believe for one second that the banning of assault rifles would prevent these type of shootings. If they were banned nationally I personally believe there would be an underground network of assault rifles being manufactured and sold that would make bootleg whiskey in the 1920s look like a Sunday School Picnic.

You can make your own assault rifle nowadays about as fast as I can make a pnut butter and jelly sandwich. The individual parts needed only cost a few hundred dollars. My point is, you're not going to stop people from having these style guns. I'm a hunter and own a AR, but I don't really care if they made some new laws it's not going to stop the random psycho from doing this.

 

[jeff2001]

Everybody knows who makes these tragedies political. There are 3 of them and they're on 24/7 cheerleadering for their side.

 

[Robhawk29]

Our society as a whole has slipped and continues to slip. That in my opinion is the underlying fact. Our country has always had murders just like everywhere else in the world. So what has changed? The availability of semi automatic assault style weapons is only part of the problem. 24 news coverage and every journalist trying to get the best most sensational story out also. Increase in population in the US and the lack of mental health care. Hollywood and the movies being released. You couldn't pay me enough to be in law enforcement today. So many factors and not a one fit all answer.

 

[paladin181]

OP: No politics.
Also OP: Would banning guns help?

 

[JohnnySolo]

Crazy people will do what’re necessary to cause mass bodily harm. Gun bans won’t stop it. I found a way to get bartles and James at the age of 17.
Instead of an assault rifle it will be something else.

 

[lilburncock]

Only reasonable discussion and opinions allowed.

My understanding is the shooter used an assault rifle to perform his dastardly deed.

Do you believe the banning of assault rifles would prevent these mass shooting/murders?

I don't believe for one second that the banning of assault rifles would prevent these type of shootings. If they were banned nationally I personally believe there would be an underground network of assault rifles being manufactured and sold that would make bootleg whiskey in the 1920s look like a Sunday School Picnic.

Unless the weapon used was fully automatic then it is not an assault weapon. Because it "looks" similar to an actual assault weapon does not make it one.

For all of those who desire registration and titling of guns please remember we have a way to accomplish this. It's the Constitutional Ammendment process. If you belive restricting the 2A is the right thing to do then do it honestly.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Only reasonable discussion and opinions allowed.

My understanding is the shooter used an assault rifle to perform his dastardly deed.

Do you believe the banning of assault rifles would prevent these mass shooting/murders?

I don't believe for one second that the banning of assault rifles would prevent these type of shootings. If they were banned nationally I personally believe there would be an underground network of assault rifles being manufactured and sold that would make bootleg whiskey in the 1920s look like a Sunday School Picnic.

You'd have to have major jail time for possession and sale of such a weapon and maybe life imprisonment if you use one in a crime (even if no one dies) for it to be effective. But you are right. Guns are stolen all the time so there would be a huge black market for those weapons. Would such a ban reduce the number of mass shootings? It might along with more extensive background checks and waiting periods. The Atlanta shooter bought his gun the same day he shot those Asian women.

 

[hahnenkampf]

Only reasonable discussion and opinions allowed.

My understanding is the shooter used an assault rifle to perform his dastardly deed.

Do you believe the banning of assault rifles would prevent these mass shooting/murders?

I don't believe for one second that the banning of assault rifles would prevent these type of shootings. If they were banned nationally I personally believe there would be an underground network of assault rifles being manufactured and sold that would make bootleg whiskey in the 1920s look like a Sunday School Picnic.

The store’s parent company (Kroger) had publicly declared a no concealed carry policy in all of its stores (CNBC.com). The gunman knew he would face no resistance.

 

[lilburncock]

I mean are you joking? The kind of guns don't matter? Of course it matters. Ask any cop if he'd rather face a suspect with a hand gun or an AR 15 and see what he says. Why do you suppose we typically arm our military with automatic weapons as opposed to a bolt action 30:06?
The more rapidly you can fire a weapon the more potential damage you can inflict in a given time frame. Police usually respond to shots fired fairly rapidly. Why do you suppose the Vagas shooter selected semi-automatic weapons with a bump stock? As the owner of more guns than I can to admit I also do not agree with open carry at all. Having lunatics walking up & down the sidewalk scaring women & children is about the best way I know to aid the movement toward more gun control. Also the 2nd Amendment has reasonable restrictions that have been in place for close to 100 years
I absolutely agree that mental health is key. It's also impossible to weed out all those type individuals ahead of the act, but we need to do more.

The choice of the 5.56 over the 30.06 has more to do with the weight and size of the bullets.

Also, near the end of WW2 large caliber fully automatic rifles were introduced into service.

FYI. The Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR or B.A.R.) is a family of American automatic rifles and machine guns used by the United States and numerous other countries during the 20th century. The primary variant of the BAR series was the M1918, chambered for the .30-06 Springfield rifle cartridge and designed by John Browning in 1917 for the American Expeditionary Forces in Europe as a replacement for the French-made Chauchat and M1909 Benét–Mercié machine guns that US forces had previously been issued.

 

[Flameout12]

There is no chance at gun control. It's just political gas for right wingers to use to fuel their political agendas.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

We had an "assault weapons" ban for a while. What happened during that time?

Columbine.

 

[Flameout12]

Unless the weapon used was fully automatic then it is not an assault weapon.

Being fully automatic has nothing to do with the description.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

There is no chance at gun control. It's just political gas for right wingers to use to fuel their political agendas.

That's not true. The Supreme Court already had to overturn DC's handgun ban that wouldn't even allow you to have a handgun in your home for self defense.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

VT shooter killed 32 people with a Glock 9mm handgun. If you want to blame weapons for murder instead of people, handguns are a far bigger issue.

 

[Six Million Dollar Man]

The simplest of terms on guns still applies. Take away the assault rifles and only the bad guys have assault rifles. I'm afraid you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Last summer when a protestor looked in the camera and said, "We're coming to the suburbs next" says everything you need to know about why people want these weapons. Assault weapons (AR15 type) are better for long range targets. A wacko walking in a grocery store could have used a 9mm just as effectively.

I don't own an AR15 but I wish I did now. Besides, this current administration is coming for your ammo by taxing the ever living hell out of it.

 

[Flameout12]

That's not true. The Supreme Court already had to overturn DC's handgun ban that wouldn't even allow you to have a handgun in your home for self defense.

You just proved my point.

 

[Six Million Dollar Man]

You just proved my point.

You just proved mine. Only the bad guys will have them if we ban them and don't say the police will protect us. They won't.

 

[Flameout12]

VT shooter killed 32 people with a Glock 9mm handgun. If you want to blame weapons for murder instead of people, handguns are a far bigger issue.

And the extended mags make them even more lethal.

 

[Flameout12]

You just proved mine. Only the bad guys will have them if we ban them and don't say the police will protect us. They won't.

Not sure where you live....where I live, they shoot first.

 

[gamecox4982]

You can make your own assault rifle nowadays about as fast as I can make a pnut butter and jelly sandwich. The individual parts needed only cost a few hundred dollars. My point is, you're not going to stop people from having these style guns. I'm a hunter and own a AR, but I don't really care if they made some new laws it's not going to stop the random psycho from doing this.

Yes, many make their own but to obtain the Lower Receiver an FFL transfer (background, etc) is still required.

 

[Six Million Dollar Man]

Not sure where you live....where I live, they shoot first.

I live in Columbia. Its fine here. I'm talking mostly about the blue states where they have tried to defang the police.