ADVERTISEMENT

OT-Anyone think the Gold Cup is fixed?

4thgengamecock

4thgengamecock

Active Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,860
481
83
I know a lot of people here are really down on soccer (beats me why), but I think this is discussion-worthy.

For those who don't know a couple days ago Mexico played Panama in the semi-finals. About a half-hour in, a Panamanian player was given a very questionable red card. Then, in the second half, Panama scored against the run of play to take a 1-0 lead and parked the bus, intending to ride out regulation and snatch the win.

This is where it starts to get weird. Right at the very end, a Panamanian player fell defending a play. The ball was bouncing around, and just happened to hit him on the arm while he was on the ground trying to get up. The official ruled it a handball, and Mexico converted to tie the game. Then in overtime, Mexico was awarded another (admittedly more legitimate) penalty, this time to take the lead and win the game.

This all comes after, about a week ago, Mexico was give an incredibly questionable penalty (again, at literally the last possible second) to beat Costa Rica in overtime during the quarter-finals.

You can see all the penalty calls HERE and HERE.

So the question is, were these matches (or the tournament) fixed for Mexico? Panama is, quite understandably, screaming bloody murder about the whole thing. I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but given the Costa Rica penalty and the first Panamanian penalty (I think the second was justified), the consistently atrocious officiating against the US this tournament, and CONCACAF's history of rampant and overwhelming corruption, I'll make an exception.

My theory is that it's been fixed by one or more cartels. They just straight-up went out and bought (or threatened) the right people. The same thing happened all the time in Colombia in the 80s and 90s (though I don't know that it spread to CONMEBOL games).

WHAT SAY YE!?!?!?!?!?
 
The cartel has a lot if influence in sporting events in Central America so i guses it's a possibility. It would also not shock me if the corupt organizations CONCAF / FIFA were involved in influencing the outcome..
 
I'm not sure that anyone really cares one way or another. I know I dont.

I'll sit back and wait for someone to tell me that it's the #1 sport in the world and that I'm not intelligent enough to understand the game.
 
By the way, fork, 26.5 million Americans watched the world cup finals. Now go compare that to the major league and NBA finals and the bcs championship game in 2014 and then decide if nobody cares. Now if you said nobody cares about baseball, hockey or NASCAR, then you'd be correct.
 
Bongsummers said:
By the way, fork, 26.5 million Americans watched the world cup finals. Now go compare that to the major league and NBA finals and the bcs championship game in 2014 and then decide if nobody cares. Now if you said nobody cares about baseball, hockey or NASCAR, then you'd be correct.
Click to expand...

Not one to argue with a bong :), but out of those 26.5million "Americans", how many do you think we're actually born on our soil? I would venture to say that a LOT of those people watching were not what I would deem "American". Roughly, 12-15 million illegal immigrants in the US presently and roughly 1 million a year getting their green cards makes for a lot of fluff in the viewership..

That said, I vote corrupt :)
 
World Cup does have a higher than normal audience. But that is much like the Olympics where everyone wraps themselves in the flag and it becomes a patriotic spectacle. Look at the figures paid for TV rights for most so called major sports. If soccer were indeed as popular as some want to dream, the figures for MSL is paltry when compared to others. Even what one would think of as more of the B list like Nascar and hockey.
 
Bongsummers said:
By the way, fork, 26.5 million Americans watched the world cup finals. Now go compare that to the major league and NBA finals and the bcs championship game in 2014 and then decide if nobody cares. Now if you said nobody cares about baseball, hockey or NASCAR, then you'd be correct.
Click to expand...

How many people do you know that can name 10 soccer players off the top of their head?
 
FORKCOCK said:
How many people do you know that can name 10 soccer players off the top of their head?
Click to expand...
I actually know a lot of people who could do that. The game is pretty popular among the younger crowd these days. One could actually argue, based on attendance figures alone, that the MLS is the 3rd most popular league in America. On a per game basis, it's actually been out drawing the NHL and NBA (NFL is first and MLB is second).

But that's all beside the point. The point is, does anyone think the Gold Cup has been fixed? Should have known as soon as I hit post that the thread would dissolve into this. Ah, me...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: coq-au-vandy
Bongsummers said:
By the way, fork, 26.5 million Americans watched the world cup finals. Now go compare that to the major league and NBA finals and the bcs championship game in 2014 and then decide if nobody cares. Now if you said nobody cares about baseball, hockey or NASCAR, then you'd be correct.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean the women's world cup. If Japan had played Germany, then nobody would have cared. USA's involvement drew the ratings (kind like how the CLA is packed for women's basketball...everyone loves a winner).

The men's world cup drew around 17 million viewers, which isn't bad at all. However, it would be much better if the US men's team would become relevant. Their gold cup performance was a disaster. No way to spin it.
 
if im not mistaken, a handball has more to do with intent to touch.....for instance, if he's laying on the ground and the ball just happens to roll across his arm, that would not be called a handball.....but it also is up to the discretion of the ref....what i view is no handball, he can view as a handball......the refs really need to get together on calls that can determine games like that and come to some kind of consensus as opposed to leaving it up to one official
 
In case anyone cares, I just found out that the Mexican coach came out afterwards and said it wasn't a handball. The penalty taker seriously considered missing on purpose, just out of principle (he ended up reasoning that he ought to be professional and convert it). Also, a not-insubstantial number of Mexican fans feel pretty sick to their stomachs about the whole thing.

Yeah, you know you've screwed up when you alienate the people you just benefited. This whole thing stinks.
 
26.5 million Americans, not "Americans" as some doof said earlier in this thread, watched the final (gr v argt), not the women's game. Presumably they weren't watching the world cup final out of patriotism. And wait for it, they weren't mostly illegal immigrants. No matter how much you guys are unaware of it, soccer is popular and becoming more popular every day. I know, the world is changing and it's scary. But there it is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: coq-au-vandy
Bongsummers said:
26.5 million Americans, not "Americans" as some doof said earlier in this thread, watched the final (gr v argt), not the women's game. Presumably they weren't watching the world cup final out of patriotism. And wait for it, they weren't mostly illegal immigrants. No matter how much you guys are unaware of it, soccer is popular and becoming more popular every day. I know, the world is changing and it's scary. But there it is.
Click to expand...

I'm the doof and if you could read worth a shit, you would notice I never said it was mostly illegal immigrants watching the game.. I said the amount of illegals along with the (1) million a year that are legal that flock to our great country created "fluff" in viewership.. Alas, you saw it as someone arguing with your beacon of knowledge that was your post and resorted to your childish shit of name calling. Good for you!!!

I'm all for folks coming here, legally of course for a better life (my great Grandfather was one) and wasn't trying to stir up a political hornets nest.. But if you think soccer is not more important to Latin America and even Europe, you need to get out more. I've been to Mexico, Italy, Spain, Ireland and Britain and a host of others.. And I promise.. They all care WAY more about Soccer than this country. I know it's changing and getting bigger in the states, but don't fool yourself into thinking it is America's sport. Doof. Lol
 
Bongsummers said:
26.5 million Americans, not "Americans" as some doof said earlier in this thread, watched the final (gr v argt), not the women's game. Presumably they weren't watching the world cup final out of patriotism. And wait for it, they weren't mostly illegal immigrants. No matter how much you guys are unaware of it, soccer is popular and becoming more popular every day. I know, the world is changing and it's scary. But there it is.
Click to expand...

I'm 52 years old and have been hearing how big soccer is and how it's going to take the country by storm since the mid 70's. Mom's love it because they don't want their little boys getting hurt.
 
Pretty sure he never said it's America's sport. I'm always fascinated by the fear so many people seem to have of Soccer. It's amusing.

I went to the Chelsea/Paris Saint-Germain game at BofA stadium in Charlotte last night. These are two international teams that have no connection to our country. Their players come from all over the world. The streets around the stadium before the game were crazy. They had fire marshals and cops out directing the vehicular and foot traffic. It was loud as hell and rowdy. The game wasn't sold out but full and full of energy. Many, many people there were white and most likely American citizens and a lot of regular old families with kids, but attendance was also diverse like our country itself. Last night was a big deal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: coq-au-vandy
Soccer is a great sport, otherwise it wouldn't be the biggest sport in the world, but it just isn't what some people here think it is compared with other parts of the world. It simply has too much competition here.. Other nations don't have all the sports programs we have. We have college, amateur and pro in pretty much every major sport. They have soccer..
 
CockedNBlowded said:
Soccer is a great sport, otherwise it wouldn't be the biggest sport in the world, but it just isn't what some people here think it is compared with other parts of the world. It simply has too much competition here.. Other nations don't have all the sports programs we have. We have college, amateur and pro in pretty much every major sport. They have soccer..
Click to expand...


Okay, thanks for letting us know.
 
Sulayman said:
Pretty sure he never said it's America's sport. I'm always fascinated by the fear so many people seem to have of Soccer. It's amusing.

I went to the Chelsea/Paris Saint-Germain game at BofA stadium in Charlotte last night. These are two international teams that have no connection to our country. Their players come from all over the world. The streets around the stadium before the game were crazy. They had fire marshals and cops out directing the vehicular and foot traffic. It was loud as hell and rowdy. The game wasn't sold out but full and full of energy. Many, many people there were white and most likely American citizens and a lot of regular old families with kids, but attendance was also diverse like our country itself. Last night was a big deal.
Click to expand...

You're right. He never said it was America's sport just as my post did not say only illegal immigrants watch soccer. He didn't really need to however, his post alluded to such with it's tone..

By the way, I love soccer and was one of those 26.5 million watching. As well, I watched our women defeat Japan. And get this, I'm a white doof American. Lol
 
Bongsummers said:
26.5 million Americans, not "Americans" as some doof said earlier in this thread, watched the final (gr v argt), not the women's game. Presumably they weren't watching the world cup final out of patriotism. And wait for it, they weren't mostly illegal immigrants. No matter how much you guys are unaware of it, soccer is popular and becoming more popular every day. I know, the world is changing and it's scary. But there it is.
Click to expand...

I was strictly talking about ABC and Fox ratings. The women's world cup crushed the men's.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/womens-world-cup-carli-lloyd-usa-win-soccer-ratings-1201534249/

The popularity of soccer in the US is growing, without a doutbt; the men's team needs to perform better, however, for soccer to go to the next level.

Personally, I would like to see it happen. I've got nothing against the sport.
 
I'm glad you enjoy the sport. I love it, but Gamecock sports will always be my #1.
 
DarkCock said:
The popularity of soccer in the US is growing, without a doutbt; the men's team needs to perform better, however, for soccer to go to the next level.
Click to expand...

I'm a big soccer fan, but I'm not sure that I agree with this statement. Or at least I think there are a number of qualifiers:

First, I think the growth of soccer in the US hinges on individual players rather than the national team. When Brian McBride played for Fulham or Claudio Reyna played for Man City or Clint Dempsey played for Fulham or Freddy Adu (just kidding), more US soccer fans were able to see Americans play against their favorite European teams (which they were already watching per point #2, below). Now we are in a bit of a transition as more Americans are choosing to play in the MLS rather than abroad (Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore, etc.). As MLS grows in skill level and reputation, so do these players and other American players. But, until we have players playing at the top level on a consistent basis (whether that top level is in Europe or here . . . when MLS improves), I think many fans will look to foreign teams and players for their soccer addiction.

Second, I think the growth of MLS is key. We have a huge youth population playing the sport (even if only for exercise and not at the highest level). Those players turn into fans as they grow older. The national team plays once every few months, but the professional leagues last the entire year (thanks to MLS's summer schedule). These former-players-turned-fans can appreciate good soccer, and, as such, they are turning to professional leagues outside of the US to watch the best players in the world. I cannot go down a city street in Charleston on a weekend without seeing a Chelsea or Barcelona or Arsenal shirt. These fans know good soccer when they see it, and the MLS just isn't there yet.

Third, no matter what the men's national team does, I don't ever see soccer becoming bigger than football in my lifetime. It just isn't going to happen. However, I do give it a chance to pull ahead of NHL (thanks to its widespread play vs. limited hockey opportunities in rural areas), MLB (heard a radio personality mention that more people are gravitating toward soccer and away from baseball because soccer is an hour and a half commitment and baseball can last for hours and hours) and NBA (attendance is there in the MLS already).
 
CockedNBlowded said:
I'm the doof and if you could read worth a shit, you would notice I never said it was mostly illegal immigrants watching the game.. I said the amount of illegals along with the (1) million a year that are legal that flock to our great country created "fluff" in viewership.. Alas, you saw it as someone arguing with your beacon of knowledge that was your post and resorted to your childish shit of name calling. Good for you!!!

I'm all for folks coming here, legally of course for a better life (my great Grandfather was one) and wasn't trying to stir up a political hornets nest.. But if you think soccer is not more important to Latin America and even Europe, you need to get out more. I've been to Mexico, Italy, Spain, Ireland and Britain and a host of others.. And I promise.. They all care WAY more about Soccer than this country. I know it's changing and getting bigger in the states, but don't fool yourself into thinking it is America's sport. Doof. Lol
Click to expand...

Yes, I said it was "America's sport." Right. And apparently I said it was more important to Americans than other countries. Uh huh. Reading comprehension problems indeed.

What I did say is that it's not mostly "Americans," as you so inanely put it, but you know, people mostly like me that watch soccer. Nor did you specify it was just "fluff." Perhaps you should read your original post. In any event, these are facts fact you could've discovered with google level research skills, you dolt.
 
Yes, I said it was "America's sport." Right. And apparently I said it was more important to Americans than other countries. Uh huh. Reading comprehension problems indeed.

What I did say is that it's not mostly "Americans," as you so inanely put it, but you know, people mostly like me that watch soccer. Nor did you specify it was just "fluff." Perhaps you should read your original post. In any event, these are facts fact you could've discovered with google level research skills, you dolt.[/QUOTE]

Dude, I acknowledged to another poster that you didn't say it was "Americas sport". Admittedly, you didn't say it was more important here than other countries. As I said, your tone inferred it was headed in that direction based on viewership in Baseball, Hockey and Nascar.

As far as me not specifying "fluff", check the second to the last sentence of original post below for your viewing pleasure since you weren't able to catch it the 1st go round..

makes for a lot of fluff in the viewership..

Again, if you think it is such a BIG American sport, good for you.. I "think"otherwise, even though I enjoy the sport.. My opinion :).

As well, Thanks for the suggestion of google. I hadn't even thought of that.. So, I did a google search and wow, 1st article I found seems to back my opinion. Guess I just know where to look:

Business Insider
July 2014

This impressive TV performance was matched on social media. During the Final, 44% of Spanish-language tweets in the U.S. mentioned the game versus 24% for English speakers. This compares to nationwide World Cup Final conversation levels of 46% in Mexico, 45% in finalist Argentina, and 45% in Spain. Social data points to a Latino community in the U.S. that’s every bit as enthused about the game as any country in the world.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/world-cup-demographics-2014-7#ixzz3h6BVXB00

Some of the findings aren’t shocking — soccer is huge among Spanish speakers in the U.S. — but others identify niche opportunities for advertisers and brands that aren’t as easily quantified by traditional market research.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/world-cup-demographics-2014-7#ixzz3h6B2IKks


Takeaway: As demographics (the rise of Millennials and Hispanics) serve to lift’s soccer’s popularity in the U.S. over time, local MLS teams are also providing an assist, especially in small to mid-sized markets. As the MLS and international leagues builds audience in the U.S., they can provide an attractive vehicle for reaching these rising demographic cohorts.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/world-cup-demographics-2014-7#ixzz3h6AKgz1M

Have a nice day!!
 
And not to get off subject with a bong, but didn't the OP actually ask your thoughts as to whether you thought the GC was fixed or not? I never read your thoughts on the subject..
 
Let's say that in the 2015 SEC football season, Alabama needed to win its final two games or Ole Miss was headed to the SEC Championship Game.

In the penultimate SEC regular season game at Miss St, Alabama scored the winning touchdown on the final play of overtime after pass interference in the end zone was called against Miss St.

Then, in the Iron Bowl at Auburn, Auburn's starting QB was ejected from the game in the first quarter for the same exact infraction that had just been committed by the Alabama QB, but he was allowed to remain in the game. Then, Alabama scored a touchdown on the final play of the game thanks to pass interference in the end zone against Auburn to force overtime. Alabama then scored the winning touchdown on the final play of overtime again after pass interference in the end zone was called against Auburn.

And all of this allowed Alabama into the SEC championship game . . . though the Iron Bowl occurred after the SEC East winning team was determined to be Vandy.

Would people think that the SEC was looking out for Bama and not wanting to see a Ole Miss v. Vandy match-up . . . yes.
 
CockedNBlowded said:
And not to get off subject with a bong, but didn't the OP actually ask your thoughts as to whether you thought the GC was fixed or not? I never read your thoughts on the subject..
Click to expand...

Look at the third post in this thread for answer.

In any event, the BI article was far from the only source you could find on the subject and it only specified that Spanish speakers were easier to identify from their tweets. You wrote, "but out of those 26.5million "Americans", how many do you think we're actually born on our soil? I would venture to say that a LOT of those people watching were not what I would deem "American". Roughly, 12-15 million illegal immigrants in the US presently and roughly 1 million a year getting their green cards makes for a lot of fluff in the viewership."

Yes, I guess you're right in that you only determined that an unspecified number of non native American born folks accounted for "a LOT" of the watchers that you don't considered "American." I suppose I could have interpreted that to mean less that a "LOT" but I'm not that good with "alluding to tone" or whatever.

Moving away from the nativist determination what constitutes a real "American," Neilsen seems to think it's largely the product of Millenials. Maybe a lot of those Millenials are ESL students or teenagers that came over on B1 visas and accounted the increase in people watching the WC. Dunno.

I"Thanks to social media and enhanced access to games and news from around the world, soccer fever has hit a critical mass in the United States," said Stephen Master, Nielsen's vice president of sports. He also called the high ratings a validation of "soccer's momentum across America."

An important factor in improved ratings for the World Cup appears to be a growing acceptance of soccer in the U.S. Americans who grew up watching and playing soccer are now consuming it as part of the global World Cup audience. A Nielsen breakdown of the U.S./England match's audience revealed that 57% of U.S. viewers were in the 18 to 49 year-old demographic, with teenagers making up nearly 7% of the total audience.
 
I would like to watch the game and see for myself before I made my decision. I have seen some calls that truly made me wonder (Gardner push off among others) but I generally believe that officials do their best.

On a side note, when it voted corrupt above, it was sarcasm.. My apologies for not being more direct. I enjoy watching soccer, but I am far from a fanatic that gets into the politics of it.
 
CockedNBlowded said:
And not to get off subject with a bong, but didn't the OP actually ask your thoughts as to whether you thought the GC was fixed or not? I never read your thoughts on the subject..
Click to expand...
And the reference to debating with a Bong, which you've churlishly referenced twice, does not apply to my extracurricular activities. I prefer bourbon. If you'd been here long enough to have more than 26 posts, a low number typically associated with a troll, you'd know that already.
 
Bongsummers said:
Look at the third post in this thread for answer.

In any event, the BI article was far from the only source you could find on the subject and it only specified that Spanish speakers were easier to identify from their tweets. You wrote, "but out of those 26.5million "Americans", how many do you think we're actually born on our soil? I would venture to say that a LOT of those people watching were not what I would deem "American". Roughly, 12-15 million illegal immigrants in the US presently and roughly 1 million a year getting their green cards makes for a lot of fluff in the viewership."

Yes, I guess you're right in that you only determined that an unspecified number of non native American born folks accounted for "a LOT" of the watchers that you don't considered "American." I suppose I could have interpreted that to mean less that a "LOT" but I'm not that good with "alluding to tone" or whatever.

Moving away from the nativist determination what constitutes a real "American," Neilsen seems to think it's largely the product of Millenials. Maybe a lot of those Millenials are ESL students or teenagers that came over on B1 visas and accounted the increase in people watching the WC. Dunno.

I"Thanks to social media and enhanced access to games and news from around the world, soccer fever has hit a critical mass in the United States," said Stephen Master, Nielsen's vice president of sports. He also called the high ratings a validation of "soccer's momentum across America."

An important factor in improved ratings for the World Cup appears to be a growing acceptance of soccer in the U.S. Americans who grew up watching and playing soccer are now consuming it as part of the global World Cup audience. A Nielsen breakdown of the U.S./England match's audience revealed that 57% of U.S. viewers were in the 18 to 49 year-old demographic, with teenagers making up nearly 7% of the total audience.
Click to expand...

I can jive with a lot of that and feel we are both somewhatmright. By the way, that's the very reason I sad a LOT :) A lot is open to interpretation. A lot can be 45% or even 24%.. As well, I work with a lot of folks (Latin American and European) that have moved here, legally and/or illegally and they love it here or they wouldn't be here, but they don't call themselves American. Maybe they should. Maybe that's just the ones I deal with.. Just my experience.

I agree, it is getting more popular for sure and it isn't just Latin Americans and Europeans that are here watching. Although I do still believe it is more popular with them than, maybe I should say, the traditional white Americans.. The rise in little league soccer among the younger generation is taking a serious foothold though and it will continue to grow.

Still not sure of your view as to corrupt or not? I sense the sarcasm but couldn't sense as to which direction it was coming. Lol
 
Bongsummers said:
And the reference to debating with a Bong, which you've churlishly referenced twice, does not apply to my extracurricular activities. I prefer bourbon. If you'd been here long enough to have more than 26 posts, a low number typically associated with a troll, you'd know that already.
Click to expand...

You can see I've been a member a while. Was here before then when was gamecock nation. Low post count means I didn't care to chime in on anything in the past. Very busy with a life. If you choose to research my few posts, I think you would get a feel as to what kind of person and Gamecock I am. No trolling bro. Just opiniated like the rest of the asshats on board :)
 
TravellersGhost said:
I'm a big soccer fan, but I'm not sure that I agree with this statement. Or at least I think there are a number of qualifiers:

First, I think the growth of soccer in the US hinges on individual players rather than the national team. When Brian McBride played for Fulham or Claudio Reyna played for Man City or Clint Dempsey played for Fulham or Freddy Adu (just kidding), more US soccer fans were able to see Americans play against their favorite European teams (which they were already watching per point #2, below). Now we are in a bit of a transition as more Americans are choosing to play in the MLS rather than abroad (Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore, etc.). As MLS grows in skill level and reputation, so do these players and other American players. But, until we have players playing at the top level on a consistent basis (whether that top level is in Europe or here . . . when MLS improves), I think many fans will look to foreign teams and players for their soccer addiction.

Second, I think the growth of MLS is key. We have a huge youth population playing the sport (even if only for exercise and not at the highest level). Those players turn into fans as they grow older. The national team plays once every few months, but the professional leagues last the entire year (thanks to MLS's summer schedule). These former-players-turned-fans can appreciate good soccer, and, as such, they are turning to professional leagues outside of the US to watch the best players in the world. I cannot go down a city street in Charleston on a weekend without seeing a Chelsea or Barcelona or Arsenal shirt. These fans know good soccer when they see it, and the MLS just isn't there yet.

Third, no matter what the men's national team does, I don't ever see soccer becoming bigger than football in my lifetime. It just isn't going to happen. However, I do give it a chance to pull ahead of NHL (thanks to its widespread play vs. limited hockey opportunities in rural areas), MLB (heard a radio personality mention that more people are gravitating toward soccer and away from baseball because soccer is an hour and a half commitment and baseball can last for hours and hours) and NBA (attendance is there in the MLS already).
Click to expand...

I really like those comments. Thanks for putting so much thought into it! I'll say that I agree with you on one and a half points, if you'll let me. I don't really think the growth of the game hinges on individual American players, because, in my experience, there are very few people who would watch just to see our guys. Hell, my favorite player isn't American, he's Belgian (Vincent Kompany). I will literally get up at 6:00 a.m. on a Saturday to watch Manchester City, just so I can see him, and I know I'm not alone. A huge number of people follow the English and Spanish leagues so they can watch guys like Messi, Rooney, and Aguero play.

In my opinion, the real key is not just the MLS, but all domestic leagues. The really committed people will always watch, and the people in their general vicinity (family members, friends, coworkers), will pay attention just so they can talk about it intelligently. To get everyone else on board, what we need is a strong domestic product. And this doesn't just mean the MLS; to reach people on a local level, especially in areas without an MLS club, we need a competitive second and third tier. Think about clubs like the Charleston Battery; when those teams are competitive (and Charleston is more often than not), it encourages people to get invested in the team and, by extension, soccer in general.

My biggest goal for US soccer (other than a World Cup triumph) is to establish a relegation-promotion system. That's the ultimate incentive for local fans: one day, with a little luck, your team, could be the best in America. Unfortunately, the current ownership structure of the MLS precludes that, though the league is slowly moving away from that model, and within the next 40-50 years relegation-promotion may be possible.

As to your third point, I think the MLS is already ahead of the NHL, and is rapidly closing in on the NBA, if it hasn't already been surpassed. The full four years I was at Carolina (graduated in May), I don't think I saw a single NHL fan, but I did see a TON of EPL and La Liga fans. The NHL is already a regional sport, and I think the NBA is increasingly starting to be confined to the Northeast and West Coast. The reason you see so much coverage of the NBA is because that's exactly where the major media outlets are located; the appearance of the league's overwhelming popularity is a mirage.

As a final point, I'm going to make a bold prediction: the US men's national team will win at least two World Cups in the next 40 years (or, ten tournaments). When I told my (English) roommate the US would win it's second World Cup before England did, he laughed. But the numbers don't lie. The two most important factors to a national team's success are a country's wealth and the size of it's population. The US has a laughable advantage over everyone in money, and a massive advantage over everyone but India and China in population.

Statistically speaking, we produce more talent per any generation than any country in the world. Remember, up until your mid-teens athletic talent is pretty transferable between sports. This is why we dominate international competitions in baseball and basketball. Even though a fraction of our population plays those sports, we just have so many that we swamp everyone else.

The problem US soccer has had is that it is very inefficient at harvesting all the talent that's sitting around. Consider Europe: literally everyone there plays, and they've had a hundred years to build up their infrastructure and youth networks. They squeeze every last drop out of a limited pool. For a long time in the US, very few people played, and we had no infrastructure to develop the few that did. We had talent sitting around, but we didn't bother to do anything with it. Now, though, more and more people are playing, and our soccer infrastructure is getting built up rapidly, partially by the MLS (starting in '08 every club was required to have a youth academy) and partially by European clubs trying to tap into our massive population and wealth for future talent (so as to dominate their European rivals).

I've crunched the numbers on this; we only really need 10-15% of our population to play soccer as their primary sport. That would give us roughly 35 million players, or the population of Spain, one of the world's giants. If we're not there already, we're starting to get close. After that, it's just a matter of waiting on our infrastructure to catch up with the rest of the world, and we'll be a titan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TravellersGhost
4thgengamecock said:
In my opinion, the real key is not just the MLS, but all domestic leagues. . . . . My biggest goal for US soccer (other than a World Cup triumph) is to establish a relegation-promotion system.

Statistically speaking, we produce more talent per any generation than any country in the world. . . . . The problem US soccer has had is that it is very inefficient at harvesting all the talent that's sitting around.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily think we are far apart in our opinions. I've selected a couple of the things you said above to address:

While I completely agree with you on the growth of domestic leagues and the relegation system, I just don't know how feasible the relegation system is here. In Europe, they have lived off of the relegation system forever. And not just in soccer. Rugby and even basketball have relegation and promotion as well. It is built into the psyche of every sports fan. Here, however, we do not have relegation in any of our sports leagues that I'm aware of. On the one hand, that could make soccer more interesting/different for a lot of fans. On the other hand, it would be hard for a lot of people (owners) to accept at a time when there appears to be some instability as it stands (see Chivas USA). As to your point on growth of all leagues, what strikes me about the European soccer leagues and tiers is that, like politics, everything is local. I have a friend who owns a lower level team in Europe. Everyone who lives in the small town around that team's stadium supports his team. They watch the top league on the weekends, but they are fully committed to their local team and the hope that one day they can move up to a higher level. I jut don't know if we will ever get there, but it would be great.

As for the statistics, I agree to a certain extent that we will continue to grow as a nation, but I think I should've gone into more detail on why we need individual Americans to succeed in order to grow the sport. Until the MLS can produce and then fully develop the top talent, we need doors to continue to open in Europe for American players to develop their skills against the best. We only need to look at US goalkeepers to see that this is true. Kasey Keller started things off in the 1990's at Millwall and then Leicester City before performing quite well at Spurs, Monchengladbach and Fulham. Then, after leaving Columbus for a short stint at Liverpool, Brad Friedel had a tremendous career at Blackburn, Villa and Spurs. Then Marcus Hahneman was at Reading for over 250 games, I believe. Then Tim Howard left the Metro Stars for Man U for a short while (some great performances and then a couple bad outings had him back on the bench) before taking over at Everton since 2007. Now Brad Guzan is at Aston Villa. I believe Keller opened the door for Friedel who opened the door for Howard, etc., etc. Our American goalkeepers were working in Europe trying to stop shots from the top players in the world. It only made them better. The natural skill was always there, and for some of them was discovered by the MLS, but it took playing at the top level in Europe for them to be truly tested. Until the MLS competes at that level, we need the same thing to happen for our outfield players. Sure, you can point to Donovan as a purely domestic product who may have fallen at the wayside if he had repeatedly tried to make Bayern or Everton work out rather than coming back to the US. But also believe O'brien, Reyna, McBride, Bocanegra, Dempsey, Bradley, and others would not have progressed as far as they did/have without that challenge.

In the end, I think we agree on a lot of points. Perhaps I should have broken out my response into short term and long term to better explain myself. I hope this helps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D

What you think about Lamont now?

Replies
61
Views
2K
Gamecocks Forum
gamecock stock
G
adcoop

Still Think Paris Is Coaching Street Ball?

Replies
11
Views
914
Gamecocks Forum
Ward Jr
Ward Jr
USMCatFan

OT: Anyone in the HHI/Bluffton area...

Replies
2
Views
417
Gamecocks Forum
USMCatFan
USMCatFan
Alan Cole

MBB At Georgia Live Thread

Replies
38
Views
360
The Insiders Forum
SmokingAndPoking
S
D

Best Defense in Men's Basketball

Replies
1
Views
554
Gamecocks Forum
Cybercock
C
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back