Baseball Hall of Fame

[ToddFlanders]

The Baseball Writer's Association of America should be ashamed and disbanded. First off, they use BBWAA as their acronym - baseball is one word geniuses! Not two that would make BB make sense.

But leaving Bonds and Clemens out of the hall completely just shows that they aren't capable of doing the job they were given by the HOF. Like most people that elect themselves as the "morality police," the BBWAA falls well short and their decisions are fraught with hypocrisy and irrational reasoning.

Sending a message by not electing two of the top 20 players of all time as first-ballot guys was acceptable. But taking it this far just shows that a bunch of losers with mustard-stained shirts from the free pretzels in the press box shouldn't be given tasks beyond writing what they see on a given night.

 

[capngamecock]

The Baseball Writer's Association of America should be ashamed and disbanded. First off, they use BBWAA as their acronym - baseball is one word geniuses! Not two that would make BB make sense.

But leaving Bonds and Clemens out of the hall completely just shows that they aren't capable of doing the job they were given by the HOF. Like most people that elect themselves as the "morality police," the BBWAA falls well short and their decisions are fraught with hypocrisy and irrational reasoning.

Sending a message by not electing two of the top 20 players of all time as first-ballot guys was acceptable. But taking it this far just shows that a bunch of losers with mustard-stained shirts from the free pretzels in the press box shouldn't be given tasks beyond writing what they see on a given night.

I mean if you cheat, you don't get in. That's the way it is. You disrespect the integrity of the game, you don't get in. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

 

[ToddFlanders]

I mean if you cheat, you don't get in. That's the way it is. You disrespect the integrity of the game, you don't get in. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

It's a game of cheaters. Cheating in some form has happened on every level of the game since the first pitch was thrown. It's as much a part of the game as the gloves they use. The writers are the ones disrespecting the integrity of the game by showing they aren't smart enough to be even-handed with their reasoning.

Should all the pitchers that got caught at the beginning of last season for doctoring the ball be banned from the Hall now? Gaylord Perry - a celebrated cheater, in the Hall. David Ortiz cheated - got caught for PEDS (something Bonds never tested positive for). He just got voted in. How about all the guys popping pills in the 70's? And by the way, the "steroid era" started in the late 60's - it just got publicized much later.

Unless they're going to retroactively remove people from the Hall, it's too late to not let those with the same offense of "cheating" in.

 

[king ward]

I think that people throwing spitters or corking bats (for which they were thrown out of games when caught, suspended if they persisted) or stealing signs does not rise to the level of juicing to play beyond someone's natural ability or gambling on a sport in which you are still actively engaged. Just my opinion.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

BEFORE Bonds, Clemens, Rose. Sosa, etc get in, Shoeless Joes gets in. If you're going to absolve them of their wrongdoings, then you should Shoeless Joe as well.

I will go to my grave arguing for that.

 

[king ward]

BEFORE Bonds, Clemens, Rose. Sosa, etc get in, Shoeless Joes gets in. If you're going to absolve them of their wrongdoings, then you should Shoeless Joe as well.

I would discourage that also.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

I would discourage that also.

Why? Yes he took the money. But they can't prove he did anything to throw the games. In fact, his stats prove otherwise. He still has some of the best individual stats ever for a World Series.

My issue is people all day will say that Bonds, Clemens, and Rose deserve to be in, but won't say the same for Shoeless Joe. What's good for the former should also be for the latter.

 

[ToddFlanders]

I think that people throwing spitters or corking bats (for which they were thrown out of games when caught, suspended if they persisted) or stealing signs does not rise to the level of juicing to play beyond someone's natural ability or gambling on a sport in which you are still actively engaged. Just my opinion.

Bonds and Clemens were both first ballot hall of famers based on their first ten years of production alone. But doctoring a ball and corking bats also makes a person perform outside their natural ability. So does stealing signs. Cheating is cheating. And cheating is baseball.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

Bonds and Clemens were both first ballot hall of famers based on their first ten years of production alone. But doctoring a ball and corking bats also makes a person perform outside their natural ability. So does stealing signs. Cheating is cheating. And cheating is baseball.

I'll be clear. I can't stand Bonds nor Clemens. They are both arrogant jerks, and Bonds acted as if he was above the game, which is unforgivable for me. No one is above the game. It would suit me if they are never in Cooperstown, and yes, I was happy last night when they didn't get in. But, I do concede that IF they were to ever get in, they damn sure better put Shoeless Joe in.

Schilling not getting in solely because of his conservative politics is complete and total BS and the writers should be ashamed.

 

[ToddFlanders]

BEFORE Bonds, Clemens, Rose. Sosa, etc get in, Shoeless Joes gets in. If you're going to absolve them of their wrongdoings, then you should Shoeless Joe as well.

I will go to my grave arguing for that.

He should definitely be in - even if he threw the World Series. His career was HOF worthy. The players being kept out are being done by people choosing to be willfully ignorant of the realities of the sport - and who willfully ignore others that cheated in order to make a point. If you keep Bonds and Clemens out, then you must go back in history and investigate and find others that have cheated in any manner and kick them out of the hall.

 

[ToddFlanders]

I'll be clear. I can't stand Bonds nor Clemens. They are both arrogant jerks, and Bonds acted as if he was above the game, which is unforgivable for me. No one is above the game. It would suit me if they are never in Cooperstown, and yes, I was happy last night when they didn't get in. But, I do concede that IF they were to ever get in, they damn sure better put Shoeless Joe in.

Schilling not getting in solely because of his conservative politics is complete and total BS and the writers should be ashamed.

It used to be that the "scoundrels" were who added color and life to the history of a sport - but now everything needs to be so sterile. Sports needs "villains" to thrive.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

It used to be that the "scoundrels" were who added color and life to the history of a sport - but now everything needs to be so sterile. Sports needs "villains" to thrive.

There's villains, and then there are complete and utter a**hats. Bonds/Clemens are the latter.

Of course today's biggest villain is Manfred.

 

[capngamecock]

Why? Yes he took the money. But they can't prove he did anything to throw the games. In fact, his stats prove otherwise. He still has some of the best individual stats ever for a World Series.

My issue is people all day will say that Bonds, Clemens, and Rose deserve to be in, but won't say the same for Shoeless Joe. What's good for the former should also be for the latter.

Because he took the money. You answered it yourself.

 

[Neanderthal]

Some sons are forgivable, some apparently aren’t - according to the BWAA, uh oh, BBWAA (you’d think people trained in words could get that right). There is still the veteran’s committee that could get them in. Don’t know why they haven’t put Shoeless Joe or Pete in. Nobody likes Shilling or Bonds (he had to armor up they were “pitching inside” so much) and these writers put too much of their feelings into it instead of looking at the numbers. There are so many ways to cheat in baseball, if they threw out everybody that broke the rules they’d be few in it. On the other hand, in NASCAR, “if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.”

 

[thebittertruth]

Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, and Sosa all need to be in the HOF, but not Rose.

Also, the HOF and everyone that votes can all go straight to hell's basement until Dale Murphy is in the HOF.

 

[shagginrooster]

I'll be clear. I can't stand Bonds nor Clemens. They are both arrogant jerks

WTF does their attitude have to do with their accomplishments!?! Shoeless, Rose, Bonds, Clemmons etc should be elected based on their playing accomplishments period. The fact that you and the idiot BBWAA dislike certain players should have no bearing. The favoritism of the BBWAA makes me want to vomit. If the BBWAA is going to make character a requirement then they got a lot of HOF'ers that need to be purged.

 

[Neanderthal]

Leave nothing to sports reporters. Just turn on the TV and listen to sports talk. They have 3 habits: 1- They think they know everything and do not question their authority on any subject. 2- The louder you talk and shout, the more you know. 3- Three or four talk and shout at the same time. No courtesy.

You can say the same about political talk shows. I quit watching all talk shows a long time ago but I’ll guarantee they have gotten worse.

 

[Pauliecock]

Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, and Sosa all need to be in the HOF, but not Rose.

Also, the HOF and everyone that votes can all go straight to hell's basement until Dale Murphy is in the HOF.

Why do you think Rose should be excluded?

 

[USCBatgirl21]

WTF does their attitude have to do with their accomplishments!?! Shoeless, Rose, Bonds, Clemmons etc should be elected based on their playing accomplishments period. The fact that you and the idiot BBWAA dislike certain players should have no bearing. The favoritism of the BBWAA makes me want to vomit. If the BBWAA is going to make character a requirement then they got a lot of HOF'ers that need to be purged.

Read my ENTIRE post and not just the part you don't like next time, K? I concede that they may one day get in.

 

[shagginrooster]

Read my ENTIRE post and not just the part you don't like next time, K? I concede that they may one day get in.

I did read your entire post and from it I interpreted you agreed with the BBWAA that Bonds and Clemmons should not get into the HOF based on the fact that they are both "Jerks." If this is not true of your stance, then I apologize and will stand corrected.

My counterpoint is the only criteria should be accomplishments on the field of play.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

I did read your entire post and from it I interpreted you agreed with the BBWAA that Bonds and Clemmons should not get into the HOF based on the fact that they are both "Jerks." If this is not true of your stance, then I apologize and will stand corrected.

My counterpoint is the only criteria should be accomplishments on the field of play.

I just said I don't like them and I like the fact they didn't get in. I couldn't care less honestly how the BBWAA feels about them.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

Also, the HOF and everyone that votes can all go straight to hell's basement until Dale Murphy is in the HOF.

The fact that Murph is not in the HOF is complete injustice.

 

[shagginrooster]

I just said I don't like them and I like the fact they didn't get in. I couldn't care less honestly how the BBWAA feels about them.

So deserve is not part of the equation in this conversation.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

So deserve is not part of the equation in this conversation.

Not for me with them. Yes it's shallow, and I'm ok with that.

 

[shagginrooster]

Not for me with them. Yes it's shallow, and I'm ok with that.

You go girl! You are entitled because you aren't tasked with the authority to cast votes. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

Because he took the money. You answered it yourself.

But that wasn't the argument used against him. It was throwing the World Series. With his stats, no way they could prove that so they simply used the "guilt by association" rule.

 

[capngamecock]

But that wasn't the argument used against him. It was throwing the World Series. With his stats, no way they could prove that so they simply used the "guilt by association" rule.

Either way, he took money in a bribe. You can't do that and then act innocent after the fact.

 

[thebittertruth]

Why do you think Rose should be excluded?

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

 

[CockofEarle]

Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, and Sosa all need to be in the HOF, but not Rose.

Also, the HOF and everyone that votes can all go straight to hell's basement until Dale Murphy is in the HOF.

Dale was a lock at one time, unfortunately his drastically reduced plate production was so sudden to rob him.
But not is all lost, with the continued watering down of the Hall he’s still got a shot.

 

[Macc Maine]

I mean if you cheat, you don't get in. That's the way it is. You disrespect the integrity of the game, you don't get in. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

Maybe because if you take away the years that Barry bond allegedly cheated he still would be a first ballot. He’s probably the greatest all around baseball player and hitter regardless. Everybody in that era used it, he was better than them with it and without it.

 

[Macc Maine]

It's a game of cheaters. Cheating in some form has happened on every level of the game since the first pitch was thrown. It's as much a part of the game as the gloves they use. The writers are the ones disrespecting the integrity of the game by showing they aren't smart enough to be even-handed with their reasoning.

Should all the pitchers that got caught at the beginning of last season for doctoring the ball be banned from the Hall now? Gaylord Perry - a celebrated cheater, in the Hall. David Ortiz cheated - got caught for PEDS (something Bonds never tested positive for). He just got voted in. How about all the guys popping pills in the 70's? And by the way, the "steroid era" started in the late 60's - it just got publicized much later.

Unless they're going to retroactively remove people from the Hall, it's too late to not let those with the same offense of "cheating" in.

And I don’t understand why the voters and some ppl can’t understand this.

 

[Macc Maine]

WTF does their attitude have to do with their accomplishments!?! Shoeless, Rose, Bonds, Clemmons etc should be elected based on their playing accomplishments period. The fact that you and the idiot BBWAA dislike certain players should have no bearing. The favoritism of the BBWAA makes me want to vomit. If the BBWAA is going to make character a requirement then they got a lot of HOF'ers that need to be purged.

NFL did the same with Terrell Owens. It’s pathetic, that you could work your a** off and a bunch of idiots can you that you’re not worthy of something because of their personal feelings. If your numbers and accomplishments proves youre a hof then you should be in.

 

[Macc Maine]

But that wasn't the argument used against him. It was throwing the World Series. With his stats, no way they could prove that so they simply used the "guilt by association" rule.

Especially knowing he led both teams in almost every stat. Idk how that tells you he tried throwing the game lol

 

[USCBatgirl21]

Especially knowing he led both teams in almost every stat. Idk how that tells you he tried throwing the game lol

For real.

 

[capngamecock]

Maybe because if you take away the years that Barry bond allegedly cheated he still would be a first ballot. He’s probably the greatest all around baseball player and hitter regardless. Everybody in that era used it, he was better than them with it and without it.

If he was one of the best hitters all time, why did he have to cheat?

 

[Neanderthal]

Go back and look at Murphy’s stats. He ought to be in. And he was a great representative of Major League Baseball.

A lot of players in the old days were sketchy to some degree - spitballs, loaded bats, connected to gamblers, etc. Shoeless was unlucky in that he got caught. And he came out of that cornfield.

 

[ToddFlanders]

If he was one of the best hitters all time, why did he have to cheat?

Why did Tom Brady want balls deflated slightly? Everyone looks for an edge.

And by the time Bonds is accused of using, steroid use had been rampant for over three decades in the MLB. Perhaps he was just keeping up with the Joneses.

 

[capngamecock]

Why did Tom Brady want balls deflated slightly? Everyone looks for an edge.

And by the time Bonds is accused of using, steroid use had been rampant for over three decades in the MLB. Perhaps he was just keeping up with the Joneses.

There is a HUGE difference between slightly deflating a ball, and using PED's lmao If you can't see that, idk what else to tell you.

 

[shagginrooster]

There is a HUGE difference between slightly deflating a ball, and using PED's lmao If you can't see that, idk what else to tell you.

Yes Tom Brady and the Pats were the only ones deflating footballs. Bonds was one of, well everybody was using PEDs in baseball. Yeah I'm lmao, at you.

 

[ToddFlanders]

There is a HUGE difference between slightly deflating a ball, and using PED's lmao If you can't see that, idk what else to tell you.

Says you. Both are against the rules.

You’re also willfully denying (or overlooking) the decades upon decades of steroid use in Major League Baseball to single out a handful of players as “cheaters.” Steroid use (amongst other performance enhancing drugs) was ubiquitous from the late 60’s until well into the 2000’s. The leaders of the MLB, through their lackey writers, have tried to compartmentalize that whole era into a nice little box by pointing to a few stars as the problem. You’ve bought it hook, line and sinker.