Future of football?

[sandlapper59]

I am a long time follower and love football but there is a serious question looming on the near horizon. Can football, in all levels of the game, in anything like its present form continue in view of the physical abuse the players are routinely subjected to? I'm talking primarily injuries to the head that either ends a player's career or when the damage shows up years later in loss of mental faculties or premature death?

The situation has most likely become worse with greater size, strength and focus of the players but it is also serious in other sports such as women's soccer. Many parents are becoming more concerned and holding their kids out, even in the youngest leagues.

Some of the "protective" equipment is now being looked at as a cause of rather than a prevention of injury. The best thing to come along has not been equipment but the concussion protocol when properly used by coaches, with the health of the player taking priority over winning a game. Some things like the "targeting rule" seem to be so haphazardly applied that it is probably messing up the game. The old "patch 'em up and send 'em back in" has ruined the legs of way too many players, especially linemen.

I'm not offering any solutions, just looking for serious comment. Will the gov'ment get involved again and can they do anything positive?

 

[jimnasium]

The fact is that no matter who gets involved as long as you have guys running into each other at full speed these things will be. Football is not a contact sport it's a collision sport. They can improve the equipment but we can't change the head or other parts of the body so no matter what helmet you're wearing the brain is still going to move on head collisions. It's like weight training, you can lift all the weights in the room and still can't strengthen the ankles or knees. Football players could wear airbags on their heads and still have concussions so exactly how can you make it safer? Football is simply controlled violence that what's brings the crowds.

 

[cocky4]

There is not a problem with football...we have a expectation problem within society. Yes playing football can get someone hurt....just like any and every pursuit that is known to mankind. The problem that we really have is people that want to control everything and think that they know what is best for everyone. A nation filled with busybodies that run around trying to feel relevant and useful by becoming hall monitors and a swarm of vultures that are always looking to make a dollar on the ginned up outrage.

I really do not know when the majority of Americans forgot that risk was an inherent part of almost any pursuit worth while. I know of a postal service employee that has back problems after almost 30 years of making the same motion to deliver mail. People use to understand that everything has a real cost. Wearing high heels shoes probably is responsible for more injury and pain than football ever has. I have yet to hear one suggestion that these should be controlled by government...I wonder why? Driving a car is the most dangerous thing most people will ever do. Yet we accept it as a risk.

Maybe it is time that we understand that most of the calls for re-examining the established way of life and society is more about picking a plump victim that is easily opened up to legal action...and one that affects people that are not like them. All these do good people make me wish that sociopathy was more prevalent.

 

[gamecock1999]

I would not be surprised if we don't have college football in 20 years as we get more clarity on the apparent risks of the sport and inability to control those risks. Yes, adults can make their own decisions to put their health at risk, but I'm not sure allowing people with literally zero years experience as an adult to take those kind of risks squares with the supposed mission of higher education, unless maybe we're willing to give up the pretenses and admit higher education these days is simply about money and prestige. Even then, the pressure to pay athletes commensurate with those risks and the money they generate will continue to grow, and the problem with that is that relatively few programs can afford to pay the players, and then the whole sport sort of collapses in on itself as the smaller teams simply bow out and popularity dwindles. Not say that WILL happen or that's what I want to happen, but simply that I would not be surprised. And if college football does go downhill, I think the negative impact will spread downstream to high school football and upstream to the NFL as well.

 

[Quisp]

Football will morph into high tech touch or flag football complete with sensor pads, wearable technology and the like. The contact part of the sport will be minimized or eliminated entirely. This has been my prediction for years now. I may not live to see it but it is coming.

 

[lawcalcock]

more media driven hysteria...football will be just fine...why is the media obsessed with football concussions..there are so many ways to get a concussion, this anti football movement is laughable

 

[Quisp]

more media driven hysteria...football will be just fine...why is the media obsessed with football concussions..there are so many ways to get a concussion, this anti football movement is laughable

Wrong. It will be litigated to the point where massive changes become the norm. Every former player who blew his money will suddenly complain of headaches and sue. This is already happening by the way.

 

[Cackdiesel]

Soft helmets would make the game safer immediately.

I played football in the yard with friends for several years growing up. We were fairly rough on each other. I also played 5 years of organized football with pads, from 8th grade through my senior year. I stayed hurt during organized football, and don't remember ever getting hurt playing without pads.

 

[LazyIslander]

Soft helmets would make the game safer immediately.

I played football in the yard with friends for several years growing up. We were fairly rough on each other. I also played 5 years of organized football with pads, from 8th grade through my senior year. I stayed hurt during organized football, and don't remember ever getting hurt playing without pads.

This is correct IMO.
The equipment, while ostensibly designed to protect, have become weapons. Before rock hard helmets and shoulder pads, players had to tackle. Now they hit. Wrap him up and drag him down has been changed to explode into him and knock him out. We don't celebrate nice tackles. We celebrate big hits. The equipment has enabled this.

 

[achilles#]

I am a long time follower and love football but there is a serious question looming on the near horizon. Can football, in all levels of the game, in anything like its present form continue in view of the physical abuse the players are routinely subjected to? I'm talking primarily injuries to the head that either ends a player's career or when the damage shows up years later in loss of mental faculties or premature death?

The situation has most likely become worse with greater size, strength and focus of the players but it is also serious in other sports such as women's soccer. Many parents are becoming more concerned and holding their kids out, even in the youngest leagues.

Some of the "protective" equipment is now being looked at as a cause of rather than a prevention of injury. The best thing to come along has not been equipment but the concussion protocol when properly used by coaches, with the health of the player taking priority over winning a game. Some things like the "targeting rule" seem to be so haphazardly applied that it is probably messing up the game. The old "patch 'em up and send 'em back in" has ruined the legs of way too many players, especially linemen.

I'm not offering any solutions, just looking for serious comment. Will the gov'ment get involved again and can they do anything positive?

I'm leaving your whole post up, because what I have to say pertains to most of it.

Okay, first thing you are right about the size and speed of the athletes increasing (thanks steroids; it's own discussion but come on, genetics haven't changed much since 1970, and you are asking a lot of "workout" techniques to bring about things like the jump from 260 pound perennial all pro OT Rayfield Wright and super stud 270 pound John Hannah in the 70's to the godzillas we have on OL in the NFL now).

But a lot of the CTE and concussion stuff we are seeing is with athletes from PAST versions of football. There is a demographic bulge waiting to come through the pipeline with worse symptoms.

Football is done. I really believe that (though why am I posting here - question I've asked myself). Let me explain.

We are getting to the point where we will be able to scan for evidence of CTE nonintrusively (meaning you don't have to extract the brain, but test a living subject with no harm from the process).

I believe that a study of major college football players will show that as a team CTE worsened year-over-year, and new cases developed in persons who showed no evidence of it in the previous test.

Then what? People seem to think that college football is some big revenue source. It isn't. If you google some articles there are a max of about 20 programs that make money off of football, and the real number is probably closer to ten.

Carolina doesn't. With our fanbase, the big games against marquee teams, and the SEC TV money, we still don't turn a profit on football. Let that sink in. If we don't, what about all the teams across the country that aren't in P5 conferences?

What I said about testing a college program year over year applies to the NFL and high schools as well. Personally I think the puke point for high school programs has already been reached, they just haven't thought about it at all really, most of them.

But if a study showing what I think it will, existing CTE, worsening CTE, new cases of CTE with HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES occurs...

I think overnight you will see HS programs across the country dropping football in the blink of an eye.

Someone else said something about risk and kids being mollycoddled or something. BS. The brain is the most important organ in your body as far as life outcomes go. What parent in his right mind would allow their child to engage in an activity with such demonstrated risks to that organ?

If they do, they are probably the kind of people who buy lottery tickets and scratch offs.

Then we have the related issue of cord cutting, and a la carte pricing with ESPN and cable. You realize they have been the driving force for pretty much all these big sports contracts in this country since the 90's.

Anyway, this is "Peak Sports" right now. Nothing I see coming on the horizon looks good. If I were an old school owner in the NFL like the Mara's I'd start shopping for a Russian billionaire looking for a trophy property ASAP.

 

[cockofdawn]

Wrong. It will be litigated to the point where massive changes become the norm. Every former player who blew his money will suddenly complain of headaches and sue. This is already happening by the way.

will go to a "flag Football" type system.. I see it coming..

 

[achilles#]

Oh yeah, there is one move that might actually keep football viable (because the point about living a life totally free from risk is valid in a lot of ways).

And that would be to totally eliminate facemasks and shell helmets. If you look at things, a big part of the problem is the fact that they exist at all.

If anyone is interested I could discuss this a bit more, but basically if you have a feature in the game that can be "weaponized," well it got weaponized.

See a lot more broken noses and missing teeth though. A lot more like rugby than we have now. And you will have the occasional concussion with a player carted off the field, just not as many. And the dramatic concussions really aren't the problem in a way, at least not the big one.

It's the micro impacts that happen because we have shell helmets.

My take anyway.

 

[lawcalcock]

Wrong. It will be litigated to the point where massive changes become the norm. Every former player who blew his money will suddenly complain of headaches and sue. This is already happening by the way.

agreed...most players finish their career and go on with no problem...but for some curious reason the ones who go broke within 2 or 3 years out of the league always have concussion issues..

as quiet as it's kept long term dope smoking use is also a habit of CTE victims

 

[sandlapper59]

I opened this thread to get some serious thought and input from forum members. Looks like that hope is becoming a success with replies spread all across the spectrum. No personal attacks so far and I hope it stays that way. My brief mention of the equipment contribution to physical damage seem to have more support that I might have expected.

 

[lawcalcock]

I opened this thread to get some serious thought and input from forum members. Looks like that hope is becoming a success with replies spread all across the spectrum. No personal attacks so far and I hope it stays that way. My brief mention of the equipment contribution to physical damage seem to have more support that I might have expected.

Many of us don't buy the premise that football causes CTE...If this were anything more than another assault on a powerful capitalist enterprise(NFL), they would be addressing the full scope of concussion issues...But they only care about football concussions for some reason

 

[Thigh Man]

Football will morph into high tech touch or flag football complete with sensor pads, wearable technology and the like. The contact part of the sport will be minimized or eliminated entirely. This has been my prediction for years now. I may not live to see it but it is coming.

Actually, I believe that you are correct. but, I do not see it taking another 20 years.

 

[achilles#]

Many of us don't buy the premise that football causes CTE...If this were anything more than another assault on a powerful capitalist enterprise(NFL), they would be addressing the full scope of concussion issues...But they only care about football concussions for some reason

Let's illustrate your position with a hypothetical presentation.

First let's discuss something. The brain is like a mass of jello. If you google or go to youtube you can find video of them quivering like a blob of the good green stuff when you poke them with something.

The brain has very soft tissue surrounding it in the skull. When the mentioned skull and brain combo experiences certain events like being shaken, it will bounce off the walls of the skull.

This is physics. It is real. And it exists whether you want to believe in it or not.

Now the event I mentioned is just something that will happen to anyone in the course of their life. But not often. Certainly not as often as it happens on a football practice field. One of the articles I've read about CTE being studied at Duke mentioned how at practice you would hear the sharp cracks of the offensive and defensive lines helmets contacting. And you heard that a lot. Whistle* CRack* Crack* Crack*

Anyway what I want to do is make a video. Real or just animated. Here is the animated version:

I make an imaginary skull/brain combo. This one is set up so it buzzes like the operation game when the brain contacts the skull.

Then I have Homer and Bart Simpson with a couple of them trying to bang them together without hearing a buzz.

"Heh heh, this will be easy!"

BUZZ "D'oh!"

 

[jimnasium]

The game of football as it is will be around as long as people are willing to pay to see big men abuse each other. People love this stuff regardless of how safe or not safe it is humans love the violence, it's nature. Do y'all really think 82,000 fans would come to watch the band? The Romans didn't feed Christians to lions so people could see the big kitties. In the end it's all about the Benjamins. Long live the personal foul!

 

[coolcock2001]

One day these guys will be playing in Williams-Brice

 

[Quisp]

One day these guys will be playing in Williams-Brice

Oh joy. Can't wait for that.

 

[lawcalcock]

One day these guys will be playing in Williams-Brice

but they get concussed hitting the ball with their heads

 

[Quisp]

but they get concussed hitting the ball with their heads

I've heard the most common emergency room visits for young girls are soccer related breaks and injuries. Ban soccer!!!

 

[jimnasium]

Heck, I thing USC should have bull riding team or a Wingsuit sky diving team.....oohrah!!

 

[atl-cock]

The game of football as it is will be around as long as people are willing to pay to see big men abuse each other. People love this stuff regardless of how safe or not safe it is humans love the violence, it's nature. Do y'all really think 82,000 fans would come to watch the band? The Romans didn't feed Christians to lions so people could see the big kitties. In the end it's all about the Benjamins. Long live the personal foul!

Unfortunately, I think you're right. I'd like to see us do a better job of adopting the metric system too.

 

[coolcock2001]

Just watch Live PD this weekend if you want some Roman style entertainment

 

[cockofdawn]

Heck, I thing USC should have bull riding team or a Wingsuit sky diving team.....oohrah!!

Heck, like Bass Fishing and Equestrian, they would be a National Powerhouse in BOTH, as well as Corn Hole

 

[bdblack]

Tackle football, as we know it, will be done in 10-20 years. (1) Right thinking, responsible US parents will not continue to allow their young children to participate in a sport that all credible research has shown to cause brain injury in 90+% of the cases studied. (2) The popularity of travel ball seasons in all sports but football (7 on 7 passing leagues are but a weak attempt to pull football players away from summer travel ball in other sports) and wrestling are already causing participation problems for most high school football programs in the south. When there are not enough high school players left for recruitment pools, college football will also die, and eventually the NFL will follow. Football has always been my favorite spectator sport, but when I hear high school football coaches say that their young sons won't be playing football because of the fears of both parents, there is a definite change in the air.

 

[slufstuff]

Once robotics advance far enough that squads of human looking machines can run football plays and the violence level is cranked up (think arms literally being ripped off, heads crushed, etc.), human football will fade away. Until then, not so much.

I am 57 years old. I do not think football will fundamentally change in my remaining lifetime. Maybe some rule tweaks and soft helmets, but I think the game will be recognizable for another three decades. Honestly, soft helmets should be in use now at all levels, but current materials can not stand up to the pounding, meaning helmets would have to be replaced at a much higher rate than today, making an expensive sport even more so. Our current paradigm of using last seasons helmets for practice or the JV, would become more like using last weeks helmets for practice and the JV.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

Many of us don't buy the premise that football causes CTE...If this were anything more than another assault on a powerful capitalist enterprise(NFL), they would be addressing the full scope of concussion issues...But they only care about football concussions for some reason

Oh yes, the altruistic characteristics of powerful capitalist enterprises. CTE is real, some of you just don't want to admit it because you love the sport. I love the sport, too, but it has to be made safer for players or it won't be around for much longer.

 

[DarkCock]

The irony is the game was actually safer when teams bunched up at the line of scrimmage and pounded the ball between the tackles. Now teams are spread out and throwing the ball all over the place, which leaves players more vulnerable to blindside collisions at high speeds. Plus, HUNH offenses are less safe simply because they increase the number of plays in a game and hence increase the chances of injuries occurring (Saban caught hell for pointing that out a few years ago, but he was right, regardless of his motive).

But don't expect any rule changes that will favor the defense and discourage the passing game. Fans seem addicted to high scoring games. I expect they will continue to get what they want.

 

[DarkCock]

Oh yes, the altruistic characteristics of powerful capitalist enterprises. CTE is real, some of you just don't want to admit it because you love the sport. I love the sport, too, but it has to be made safer for players or it won't be around for much longer.

Modern liberals are truly neo-Puritians. As Thomas Macaulay once said, "The puritan hated bear baiting, not because it gave pain to the bear, but because it gave pleasure to the spectators."

 

[SpurCock78]

I'm leaving your whole post up, because what I have to say pertains to most of it.

Okay, first thing you are right about the size and speed of the athletes increasing (thanks steroids; it's own discussion but come on, genetics haven't changed much since 1970, and you are asking a lot of "workout" techniques to bring about things like the jump from 260 pound perennial all pro OT Rayfield Wright and super stud 270 pound John Hannah in the 70's to the godzillas we have on OL in the NFL now).

But a lot of the CTE and concussion stuff we are seeing is with athletes from PAST versions of football. There is a demographic bulge waiting to come through the pipeline with worse symptoms.

Football is done. I really believe that (though why am I posting here - question I've asked myself). Let me explain.

We are getting to the point where we will be able to scan for evidence of CTE nonintrusively (meaning you don't have to extract the brain, but test a living subject with no harm from the process).

I believe that a study of major college football players will show that as a team CTE worsened year-over-year, and new cases developed in persons who showed no evidence of it in the previous test.

Then what? People seem to think that college football is some big revenue source. It isn't. If you google some articles there are a max of about 20 programs that make money off of football, and the real number is probably closer to ten.

Carolina doesn't. With our fanbase, the big games against marquee teams, and the SEC TV money, we still don't turn a profit on football. Let that sink in. If we don't, what about all the teams across the country that aren't in P5 conferences?

What I said about testing a college program year over year applies to the NFL and high schools as well. Personally I think the puke point for high school programs has already been reached, they just haven't thought about it at all really, most of them.

But if a study showing what I think it will, existing CTE, worsening CTE, new cases of CTE with HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES occurs...

I think overnight you will see HS programs across the country dropping football in the blink of an eye.

Someone else said something about risk and kids being mollycoddled or something. BS. The brain is the most important organ in your body as far as life outcomes go. What parent in his right mind would allow their child to engage in an activity with such demonstrated risks to that organ?

If they do, they are probably the kind of people who buy lottery tickets and scratch offs.

Then we have the related issue of cord cutting, and a la carte pricing with ESPN and cable. You realize they have been the driving force for pretty much all these big sports contracts in this country since the 90's.

Anyway, this is "Peak Sports" right now. Nothing I see coming on the horizon looks good. If I were an old school owner in the NFL like the Mara's I'd start shopping for a Russian billionaire looking for a trophy property ASAP.

We do turn a profit in football. Now, in years when we are spending millions in athletic facility upgrades we may show a slight loss, but none of those upgrades are truly needed. Clemson doesn't need an Oculus or a sliding board. Even Arkansas state is building waterfalls in its stadium. The revenue is so insane that programs just spend as much as they can.

If schools ban together and stop paying coaches 5 million and assistants 1 million then plenty of profit exists. There are a lot of football coaches who would coach college football for $100,000.

If schools come together and decide to not spend asinine amounts of money on ridiculous facility projects then more profit would happen.

If USC wants to profit from football it will and in many years is in the black. They just have the money to spend so they do. We don't need giant Gamecock statues or statues of George Rogers.

FWIW last year USC had 122 million in athletic revenue and 116 million in expenses. I promise you most of that revenue is because of football

Plus, there is more of an economic impact that football produces for the city of Columbia and for the University'school exposure. If Clemson didn't have college football do you really think that university would be nationally known? CFB helps schools exposure in many ways well beyond athletics

 

[FORKCOCK]

One day these guys will be playing in Williams-Brice

I hope I'm long gone by then.

 

[Scuba_do]

It's sad to think of all the idiots out there who don't have football to blame for it.

 

[cocky4]

Modern liberals are truly neo-Puritians. As Thomas Macaulay once said, "The puritan hated bear baiting, not because it gave pain to the bear, but because it gave pleasure to the spectators."

We should all just wrap ourselves in bubble wrap.

 

[cocky4]

Tackle football, as we know it, will be done in 10-20 years. (1) Right thinking, responsible US parents will not continue to allow their young children to participate in a sport that all credible research has shown to cause brain injury in 90+% of the cases studied. (2) The popularity of travel ball seasons in all sports but football (7 on 7 passing leagues are but a weak attempt to pull football players away from summer travel ball in other sports) and wrestling are already causing participation problems for most high school football programs in the south. When there are not enough high school players left for recruitment pools, college football will also die, and eventually the NFL will follow. Football has always been my favorite spectator sport, but when I hear high school football coaches say that their young sons won't be playing football because of the fears of both parents, there is a definite change in the air.

I think you overestimate the voluntary submission of parents to groupthink. There will always be people that will be willing to play the game as is. The talent may decline...but not hard to find 11 kids willing to run around and hit. If the day comes when you can not find male kids that love to do that then we should all just hang a "closed for business" sign on the doors of America....because we will be done.

The danger to football is lawsuits and insurance co. premiums...that force schools to abandon the sport. It will be the opportunity for easy money by lawyers and plaintiffs that will kill football.

 

[cocknjax]

Soft helmets would make the game safer immediately.

I played football in the yard with friends for several years growing up. We were fairly rough on each other. I also played 5 years of organized football with pads, from 8th grade through my senior year. I stayed hurt during organized football, and don't remember ever getting hurt playing without pads.

As kids we played tackle football on grass in tee shirts and jeans, barefoot and no helmets.
The worst injury I ever saw was a sprained big toe and skinned knees. Granted, we were small, but all of us were

 

[jimnasium]

Oh yes, the altruistic characteristics of powerful capitalist enterprises. CTE is real, some of you just don't want to admit it because you love the sport. I love the sport, too, but it has to be made safer for players or it won't be around for much longer.

CTE is real but that doesn't stop the big bucks from flowing and the NFL making millionaires out of football players. Every player who plays the game knows the risk but you will never see one turn down the millions to play. It just ain't gonna happen. They claimed boxing would go away once but then along comes ultimate fighting. People love the controlled violence and will always pay to see it. The biggest yells from crowds sometimes comes after the biggest hits. No one wants to see anyone injured for life unless they're sick but how much more can be done to make it safer? Heck, they've already taken the kickoff return from the game almost.

 

[atl-cock]

Count me among those who don't like violence, where or not it's controlled. Would rather see fantastic defensive plays on the baseball diamond any day.

 

[king ward]

Wrong. It will be litigated to the point where massive changes become the norm. Every former player who blew his money will suddenly complain of headaches and sue. This is already happening by the way.

This is the most foreseeable outcome, I believe. But as I say this, why are we not reading similar things about ice hockey?