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Future of football?

I think there will always be incidental head trauma in football, but I also think football could deemphasize the use of the head-first approach to playing - simply take it out as an expected behavior. I also think the helmet could be soft-covered instead of hard-shelled. It might not look as good, but it would reduce impact.
 
Just to throw another two cents into this.

I really can't fathom how anyone doesn't believe CTE exists. When you find out how the brain is situated in the skull, how the mechanics work, the kinds of events that happen in football...

Well whatever.

But as I understand how this thing works, there is a "sport" that has to be infinitely worse than football for CTE.

Rodeo. I cannot think of anything that is more likely to cause CTE than Bronco or Bull Riding.

Just my advice, but if they still have those bull rider machines in bars, DO NOT RIDE ONE.

Also think some of the rides you see at the fair aren't a good idea as well. But you do that once a year maybe. I do know I rode one as a adult in my 40's (the "Zipper") that I loved as a kid. Made me nauseous my 2nd time around. Have steered clear of the rides ever since.
 
I guess books have been written about this topic, but I can't think of any. Anyway, helmet design can only do so much. A shoulder pad hit to the body can also cause a concussion under the right circumstances. A good example is the perfectly legal Swearinger hit on Ellington at Clemson. I was amazed that Ellington got right back up. Physics would say there was some contact between brain and skull on that type of play since the body changed directions so fast.
 
I am a long time follower and love football but there is a serious question looming on the near horizon. Can football, in all levels of the game, in anything like its present form continue in view of the physical abuse the players are routinely subjected to? I'm talking primarily injuries to the head that either ends a player's career or when the damage shows up years later in loss of mental faculties or premature death?

The situation has most likely become worse with greater size, strength and focus of the players but it is also serious in other sports such as women's soccer. Many parents are becoming more concerned and holding their kids out, even in the youngest leagues.

Some of the "protective" equipment is now being looked at as a cause of rather than a prevention of injury. The best thing to come along has not been equipment but the concussion protocol when properly used by coaches, with the health of the player taking priority over winning a game. Some things like the "targeting rule" seem to be so haphazardly applied that it is probably messing up the game. The old "patch 'em up and send 'em back in" has ruined the legs of way too many players, especially linemen.

I'm not offering any solutions, just looking for serious comment. Will the gov'ment get involved again and can they do anything positive?[/QUOT

Did you know President T. Roosevelt saved football? Brought in alot of changes and made it what we know today.

http://www.history.com/news/how-teddy-roosevelt-saved-football
 
Societal evolution is driven by science. If there's evidence that playing football means you're likely to sustain head-trauma, and potentially serious head trauma, less and less people will play as time goes on.

My kids will be playing sports, but not football. A friend of mine had his life ruined after a hard hit his senior year. Coma, brain damage, really horrible irreversible stuff.
 
I'll be honest - my ravenous appetite for watching football took a serious decline with each Marcus Lattimore blown-out knee. I realize that's a different subject. But man, I went from never missing a play to watching on and off throughout the season. I still love it, but I cringe a lot more now, and that has taken some of the fun out of it for me as a spectator. I think I decided that I much more enjoy the tactical side of it (a Spurrier great play call) more than the clobbering brutality of it.
 
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I mentioned wearable technology earlier in the thread. It's a very real thing. I would not be at all surprised to see a whole new sports arise from it taking the place of those that disappear.
 
The irony is the game was actually safer when teams bunched up at the line of scrimmage and pounded the ball between the tackles. Now teams are spread out and throwing the ball all over the place, which leaves players more vulnerable to blindside collisions at high speeds. Plus, HUNH offenses are less safe simply because they increase the number of plays in a game and hence increase the chances of injuries occurring (Saban caught hell for pointing that out a few years ago, but he was right, regardless of his motive).

But don't expect any rule changes that will favor the defense and discourage the passing game. Fans seem addicted to high scoring games. I expect they will continue to get what they want.
The problem is that the majority of folks with CTE aren't the wide receivers. It's offensive and defensive linemen who are running into their opposite numbers every single play.
 
I'm leaving your whole post up, because what I have to say pertains to most of it.

Okay, first thing you are right about the size and speed of the athletes increasing (thanks steroids; it's own discussion but come on, genetics haven't changed much since 1970, and you are asking a lot of "workout" techniques to bring about things like the jump from 260 pound perennial all pro OT Rayfield Wright and super stud 270 pound John Hannah in the 70's to the godzillas we have on OL in the NFL now).

But a lot of the CTE and concussion stuff we are seeing is with athletes from PAST versions of football. There is a demographic bulge waiting to come through the pipeline with worse symptoms.

Football is done. I really believe that (though why am I posting here - question I've asked myself). Let me explain.

We are getting to the point where we will be able to scan for evidence of CTE nonintrusively (meaning you don't have to extract the brain, but test a living subject with no harm from the process).

I believe that a study of major college football players will show that as a team CTE worsened year-over-year, and new cases developed in persons who showed no evidence of it in the previous test.

Then what? People seem to think that college football is some big revenue source. It isn't. If you google some articles there are a max of about 20 programs that make money off of football, and the real number is probably closer to ten.

Carolina doesn't. With our fanbase, the big games against marquee teams, and the SEC TV money, we still don't turn a profit on football. Let that sink in. If we don't, what about all the teams across the country that aren't in P5 conferences?

What I said about testing a college program year over year applies to the NFL and high schools as well. Personally I think the puke point for high school programs has already been reached, they just haven't thought about it at all really, most of them.

But if a study showing what I think it will, existing CTE, worsening CTE, new cases of CTE with HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES occurs...

I think overnight you will see HS programs across the country dropping football in the blink of an eye.

Someone else said something about risk and kids being mollycoddled or something. BS. The brain is the most important organ in your body as far as life outcomes go. What parent in his right mind would allow their child to engage in an activity with such demonstrated risks to that organ?

If they do, they are probably the kind of people who buy lottery tickets and scratch offs.

Then we have the related issue of cord cutting, and a la carte pricing with ESPN and cable. You realize they have been the driving force for pretty much all these big sports contracts in this country since the 90's.

Anyway, this is "Peak Sports" right now. Nothing I see coming on the horizon looks good. If I were an old school owner in the NFL like the Mara's I'd start shopping for a Russian billionaire looking for a trophy property ASAP.


Good post.

Have thought football (college and pro) is in an economic bubble that will eventually bust, just because most of money is coming from TV contracts and networks aren't making what they once did. Revenue may always be there, but not in amounts it is has been.

Physically, game's much faster and harder-hitting now. Once read someone writing for Sports Illustrated describe playing an NFL game now as being similar to being involved in dozens of car wrecks in a single game, just from the force of collisions.
Said you don't realize it unless you're in the game or standing on the sidelines right there at it. TV or the stands tends to diminish the impact of the impacts.

We're starting to see players in prime of their NFL careers walking away to avoid long term health problems. Risk isn't worth the reward.

One thing I think that will ultimately hurt football as much as anything is overexposure on TV. When I was a kid you had choice of a couple games a week during football season. and that scarcity made it important not to miss a game.
Now it seems like you can watch football year round.
I am a football fan, but more and more I find myself skipping through games just because I've hit a wall and would just as soon be outside piddling in the yard.
 
OK, let's say they end the concussion issues and helmets make players safe. Who is going to fix the doodad grabbing and anal insertion issues that seem to be acceptable at KKKlempsux? When was tat acceptable in any sport?
 
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OK, let's say they end the concussion issues and helmets make players safe. Who is going to fix the doodad grabbing and anal insertion issues that seem to be acceptable at KKKlempsux? When was tat acceptable in any sport?

Dabo is a big time Christian and he's down with it. That's all the taters need to know. Young tater dads are probably teaching this to their little tater football players.
 
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agreed...most players finish their career and go on with no problem...but for some curious reason the ones who go broke within 2 or 3 years out of the league always have concussion issues..

as quiet as it's kept long term dope smoking use is also a habit of CTE victims
So you're on record as believing that the concussion "issue" isn't actually an issue, and stems mainly from players haphazardly spending all of their money and looking for another revenue stream?
 
Good post.

Have thought football (college and pro) is in an economic bubble that will eventually bust, just because most of money is coming from TV contracts and networks aren't making what they once did. Revenue may always be there, but not in amounts it is has been.

Physically, game's much faster and harder-hitting now. Once read someone writing for Sports Illustrated describe playing an NFL game now as being similar to being involved in dozens of car wrecks in a single game, just from the force of collisions.
Said you don't realize it unless you're in the game or standing on the sidelines right there at it. TV or the stands tends to diminish the impact of the impacts.

We're starting to see players in prime of their NFL careers walking away to avoid long term health problems. Risk isn't worth the reward.

One thing I think that will ultimately hurt football as much as anything is overexposure on TV. When I was a kid you had choice of a couple games a week during football season. and that scarcity made it important not to miss a game.
Now it seems like you can watch football year round.
I am a football fan, but more and more I find myself skipping through games just because I've hit a wall and would just as soon be outside piddling in the yard.
It will be a blessing to see a sport go away at which we have been historically substandard, so look at the bright side.:cool:
 
I'll be honest - my ravenous appetite for watching football took a serious decline with each Marcus Lattimore blown-out knee. I realize that's a different subject. But man, I went from never missing a play to watching on and off throughout the season. I still love it, but I cringe a lot more now, and that has taken some of the fun out of it for me as a spectator. I think I decided that I much more enjoy the tactical side of it (a Spurrier great play call) more than the clobbering brutality of it.
Your post sort of reminds me of people I know who quit watching NASCAR after Dale Earnhardt got killed.
 
I guess books have been written about this topic, but I can't think of any. Anyway, helmet design can only do so much. A shoulder pad hit to the body can also cause a concussion under the right circumstances. A good example is the perfectly legal Swearinger hit on Ellington at Clemson. I was amazed that Ellington got right back up. Physics would say there was some contact between brain and skull on that type of play since the body changed directions so fast.
Padded helmets have not been seriously tried, to the best of my knowledge. Insulate the head from trauma to a greater extent and concussions would decrease. Otherwise, why do cars have airbags?
 
Padded helmets have not been seriously tried, to the best of my knowledge. Insulate the head from trauma to a greater extent and concussions would decrease. Otherwise, why do cars have airbags?

You might reduce the number of concussions by changing the nature of the impact.

Look I majored in engineering at Carolina, and I'm going to try and explain this (though things like this can be tricky when you get into the details). I hope I don't bore anyone, and if someone knows better I hope they correct me.

First in a concussion event, the brain has to contact the skull. It has tissue around it inside the skull, but that can give way. If you take one of those Mexican shakers with the bean inside it, you get the same effect. If you stop the shaker suddenly the bean inside continues on the path it's momentum carries it until it contacts the wall of the enclosure it is in.

Now no matter what you do, any possible helmet design or padding has to deal with certain physical laws. One is that there is so much momentum in a moving object (like a sprinting linebacker). In the case of a dead on collision that stops the linebacker in his tracks when he hits something, that is going to be transferred to what he hits. Now the nature of the collision (elastic like him running into a bunch of pillows, or inelastic like a brick wall) also has some bearing on what happens. But let's consider the collision to be helmet to helmet in this case, which is reasonably close to an inelastic collision.

Okay, the linebackers job is done. Your helmet head combo now says something like "Okay the laws of physics say I now have momentum in this direction. Darn it, until something stops it I have to go in this direction at the speed my mass and the imparted momentum say. It's the law, no way around it."

Ignoring the fact that we have a number of components, this is the point where your brain is like the bean in the Mexican shaker. Your brain is at rest until something acts on it to move it ("An object at rest, tends to stay at rest."). In this case the helmet moves. It transfers force through the padding to your skull. That moves. Then moving it encounters your brain (ignoring the tissue padding for simplicity's sake). There is a collision between your skull and your brain.

Okay, no one is happy about this, but at least everyone is moving in the same direction. Then something stops the helmet. Maybe your neck or the ground. The helmet stops. The brain is still moving. It contacts your skull again.

Now that sounds kind of nutty. It has happened to everyone if they experience anything that moves their head rapidly enough (or stops their head rapidly enough). Part of life, you can't get around it. But it doesn't happen anywhere nearly as frequently as in an activity like football.

Now the padding can make a difference. I'm not going to ... no way around it really. It can basically act as a dampener of sorts by changing the nature of the collision (at least from our brain's standpoint). It can also reduce acceleration by making things "take longer."

I'm sorry, this isn't hard. But I'd have to make some drawings. Plus while writing about this, I also think about how what I've written isn't QUITE the way it actually works, as well as the fact that my model is too simplistic.

But people a lot more knowledgeable than me about this subject have undoubtedly already worked it out.

Suffice it to say, that you can help a little with padding, but no matter what you can't get around F=MA and the laws of motion.
 
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You might reduce the number of concussions by changing the nature of the impact.

Look I majored in engineering at Carolina, and I'm going to try and explain this (though things like this can be tricky when you get into the details). I hope I don't bore anyone, and if someone knows better I hope they correct me.

First in a concussion event, the brain has to contact the skull. It has tissue around it inside the skull, but that can give way. If you take one of those Mexican shakers with the bean inside it, you get the same effect. If you stop the shaker suddenly the bean inside continues on the path it's momentum carries it until it contacts the wall of the enclosure it is in.

Now no matter what you do, any possible helmet design or padding has to deal with certain physical laws. One is that there is so much momentum in a moving object (like a sprinting linebacker). In the case of a dead on collision that stops the linebacker in his tracks when he hits something, that is going to be transferred to what he hits. Now the nature of the collision (elastic like him running into a bunch of pillows, or inelastic like a brick wall) also has some bearing on what happens. But let's consider the collision to be helmet to helmet in this case, which is reasonably close to an inelastic collision.

Okay, the linebackers job is done. Your helmet head combo now says something like "Okay the laws of physics say I now have momentum in this direction. Darn it, until something stops it I have to go in this direction at the speed my mass and the imparted momentum say. It's the law, no way around it."

Ignoring the fact that we have a number of components, this is the point where your brain is like the bean in the Mexican shaker. Your brain is at rest until something acts on it to move it ("An object at rest, tends to stay at rest."). In this case the helmet moves. It transfers force through the padding to your skull. That moves. Then moving it encounters your brain (ignoring the tissue padding for simplicity's sake). There is a collision between your skull and your brain.

Okay, no one is happy about this, but at least everyone is moving in the same direction. Then something stops the helmet. Maybe your neck or the ground. The helmet stops. The brain is still moving. It contacts your skull again.

Now that sounds kind of nutty. It has happened to everyone if they experience anything that moves their head rapidly enough (or stops their head rapidly enough). Part of life, you can't get around it. But it doesn't happen anywhere nearly as frequently as in an activity like football.

Now the padding can make a difference. I'm not going to ... no way around it really. It can basically act as a dampener of sorts by changing the nature of the collision (at least from our brain's standpoint). It can also reduce acceleration by making things "take longer."

I'm sorry, this isn't hard. But I'd have to make some drawings. Plus while writing about this, I also think about how what I've written isn't QUITE the way it actually works, as well as the fact that my model is too simplistic.

But people a lot more knowledgeable than me about this subject have undoubtedly already worked it out.

Suffice it to say, that you can help a little with padding, but no matter what you can't get around the laws of motion.
I appreciate your thoughtful response. Seems to me that football as we know it is doomed. Its replacement will not be as compelling, at least to us who belong to generations that have known real football.
 
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I appreciate your thoughtful response. Seems to me that football as we know it is doomed. Its replacement will not be as compelling, at least to us who belong to generations that have known real football.

I think CTE is a real threat to football. There are others like ESPN losing subscribers and cord cutting/a la carte pricing.

We really didn't have hard helmets till around 1950. Facemasks were a little past that.

People get hurt in Rugby, but I don't know that that sport has the problem with CTE we have. They don't tackle anything like American football players do for one thing.

It isn't much discussed but CTE risk is far higher for trench guys than the backfield stars like Tom Brady that get all the attention.

If I remember correctly, offensive and defensive linemen have the highest incidences, followed by linebackers and running backs.

Wide Receivers might be prone to stretching out and getting KO'ed by a defender, but a lineman is just about guaranteed to knock heads with an opponent on every play. That's what they call a microimpact.

Like I said everyone is going to experience these in life, unless they just stay in bed or something. But I imagine one month of say major college football (including practice) gives you more microimpacts than a lumberjack or carpenter would experience in a whole lifetime.

Do we really know what kind of game we would have if we went back to soft helmets, or even no helmets? Was there some big problem it fixed, or it just seemed like a cool idea at the time?

I do know football was a lot more dangerous when Teddy Roosevelt was President. They had a number of people just plain getting killed on the field and Congress made a lot of changes to the game.

Another thing is I really get tired of watching these guys trying to launch a KO shot and not actually making a tackle. Screw sportscenter, stop the guy from going forward.
 
agreed...most players finish their career and go on with no problem...but for some curious reason the ones who go broke within 2 or 3 years out of the league always have concussion issues..

as quiet as it's kept long term dope smoking use is also a habit of CTE victims
Your takes on women's basketball are much better than your ones on concussions and CTE evidently
 
The problem is that the majority of folks with CTE aren't the wide receivers. It's offensive and defensive linemen who are running into their opposite numbers every single play.
if linemen are the biggest issue, just go back to the old way of blocking. forbid helmet to helmet contact on the line. They don't allow it anywhere else on the field......js
 
I'm in the camp with others here who believe that American football will someday morph into some kind of non-contact sport. Relentless litigation will be the driving force, and small colleges -- especially in blue states -- will be the first to drop football for CTE reasons. That said, I caught some A7FL football on cable recently and it's not bad. For those who don't know, it's 7-on-7 tackle football on a narrow field among adult players WITHOUT PADS. Supposedly, injuries are rare. Anyway, for those who remember the failed XFL, "He Hate Me" plays in that league. Check out some clips on the league's website: http://www.a7fl.com/
 
I'm in the camp with others here who believe that American football will someday morph into some kind of non-contact sport. Relentless litigation will be the driving force, and small colleges -- especially in blue states -- will be the first to drop football for CTE reasons. That said, I caught some A7FL football on cable recently and it's not bad. For those who don't know, it's 7-on-7 tackle football on a narrow field among adult players WITHOUT PADS. Supposedly, injuries are rare. Anyway, for those who remember the failed XFL, "He Hate Me" plays in that league. Check out some clips on the league's website: http://www.a7fl.com/

The "tough it out" crowd from early in the thread would be like:
--
Fan: Hey man, you were one of my favorite players! Knew how to take a lickin' and keep on tickin'!

Former Player: All I know is pain and confusion

Fan: That playoff game in 2008 was awesome!

Player: I want to kill myself every day

Fan: Can I have an autograph??
 
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