I went

[Dingus MaGee]

I went to the game last night. First time I've seen a game in many, many moons. My observations:
There wasn't an NBA player on the floor.
Lawson wouldn't play in the GLeague at this stage.
7 coaches on our bench. Not much coaching going on. Mike White coached hard all night.
It appears Frank and his staff are resigned to the fact that they are done.
Frank's post game presser furthers this point.
He acts like a high school coach with his criticism of his players. Difficult for me to understand that when he recruited them.
Drank some $8 beers. Many were partaking. Food was really good.

 

[Horseshoe 04]

So about that Beer, any imports, souvenir cup etc....?

 

[JDishnell]

The last 3 seasons we've had to put up with posters (well, 2 previous seasons I was on CT) who come in with their smug, know-it-all attitude about how we were definitely going to be a tournament team that season. Those who expressed doubt were criticized as basketball neophytes. The logic was basically: we're going to be better this year b/c we have to be better this year (except for 2017-2018 when the thinking was that we'd be a tournament team b/c we obviously had to be the season after being a FF team).

This is Frank's 9th season and he has not demonstrated an ability to win without 2 superstar players on the team. He can't recruit, even in-state. He doesn't develop players. He doesn't seem to connect with the players he does recruit. The players he brings in don't play well together.

I get that he's old school and kind of curmudgeon about youth these days, and I likely agree with many of his viewpoints, but at some point you need to win games.

 

[TheReelEss]

I went to the game last night. First time I've seen a game in many, many moons. My observations:
There wasn't an NBA player on the floor.
Lawson wouldn't play in the GLeague at this stage.
7 coaches on our bench. Not much coaching going on. Mike White coached hard all night.
It appears Frank and his staff are resigned to the fact that they are done.
Frank's post game presser furthers this point.
He acts like a high school coach with his criticism of his players. Difficult for me to understand that when he recruited them.
Drank some $8 beers. Many were partaking. Food was really good.

Frank failed to recruit well off the Final 4 run. The warchest is empty again.

 

[Gradstudent]

Tanner failed the basketball program and the fans and the players, should have made Martin change staff before this year and protect the sports program vs "cater to a coach because he was one and knows what its like and wants to be a good well liked boss"

 

[JDishnell]

Frank failed to recruit well off the Final 4 run. The warchest is empty again.

This is Frank's 9th season. How many players of consequence has he brought in during that time? 3? Sin, PJ, Silva?

 

[CCUIrmo]

The last 3 seasons we've had to put up with posters (well, 2 previous seasons I was on CT) who come in with their smug, know-it-all attitude about how we were definitely going to be a tournament team that season. Those who expressed doubt were criticized as basketball neophytes. The logic was basically: we're going to be better this year b/c we have to be better this year (except for 2017-2018 when the thinking was that we'd be a tournament team b/c we obviously had to be the season after being a FF team).

This is Frank's 9th season and he has not demonstrated an ability to win without 2 superstar players on the team. He can't recruit, even in-state. He doesn't develop players. He doesn't seem to connect with the players he does recruit. The players he brings in don't play well together.

I get that he's old school and kind of curmudgeon about youth these days, and I likely agree with many of his viewpoints, but at some point you need to win games.

The only thing you say that I truly disagree with is about Frank developing players. I think he does develop players very well, i.e. Notice, Silva, and even Kotsar this year all were better each year and by their senior years they were all really light years beyond where they were their freshman years.
However the problem is that Frank has a very hard time holding on to many, if any, players for four years. they either transfer out or are removed from the team. When you see the team last year have only one player graduate that stayed four years and before that it was Thornwell and Notice two years ago.
Frank is not the kind of coach that will succeed in todays basketball world doing as he has always done. I personally like Frank alot and have met him and talked with him. He is a really great guy and one I would love for my kids to learn from and listen to. However todays players want to be pampered and touted as great at all times like they were during AAU ball (which has 100% destroyed the game of basketball). Frank wont do that. Most other coaches wont do that fully either but are willing to meet in the middle. Frank is very stubborn and with that being the case he is where he will remain, a frustrated coach that hovers around .500 each year.

 

[Cocky4SC]

Frank coaches an outdated style of basketball. With the AAU circuits running college basketball, it's only going to get worse until we find another coach. IMO he has set us back to the Horn days which is amazing considering we were in the Final Four what three years ago?!?

 

[JDishnell]

The only thing you say that I truly disagree with is about Frank developing players. I think he does develop players very well, i.e. Notice, Silva, and even Kotsar this year all were better each year and by their senior years they were all really light years beyond where they were their freshman years.
However the problem is that Frank has a very hard time holding on to many, if any, players for four years. they either transfer out or are removed from the team. When you see the team last year have only one player graduate that stayed four years and before that it was Thornwell and Notice two years ago.
Frank is not the kind of coach that will succeed in todays basketball world doing as he has always done. I personally like Frank alot and have met him and talked with him. He is a really great guy and one I would love for my kids to learn from and listen to. However todays players want to be pampered and touted as great at all times like they were during AAU ball (which has 100% destroyed the game of basketball). Frank wont do that. Most other coaches wont do that fully either but are willing to meet in the middle. Frank is very stubborn and with that being the case he is where he will remain, a frustrated coach that hovers around .500 each year.

I agree. I've never met Frank, but I'm sure I'd like him personally. Like I said, I'm certain I would pretty much agree with him philosophically. Where he fails is in his ability to adapt his philosophy to today's players. Say what you will about someone like Coach K, he's a great coach and he's been able to adapt as players have evolved over his 40+ years in coaching. I think he's pretty hard-nosed and we've seen clips of him in practices and he certainly doesn't coddle his players, but yet he's managed to balance his style/philosophy with today's players.

Perhaps it's the winning that makes the difference. Maybe the players are willing to put up with getting chewed on by Coach K and willing do what he says b/c he's demonstrated that his way leads to the tournament and titles.

 

[atl-cock]

Tanner failed the basketball program and the fans and the players, should of made Martin change staff before this year and protect the sports program vs "cater to a coach because he was one and knows what its like and wants to be a good well liked boss"

......should have made Martin......

 

[king ward]

I went to the game last night. First time I've seen a game in many, many moons. My observations:
There wasn't an NBA player on the floor.
Lawson wouldn't play in the GLeague at this stage.
7 coaches on our bench. Not much coaching going on. Mike White coached hard all night.
It appears Frank and his staff are resigned to the fact that they are done.
Frank's post game presser furthers this point.
He acts like a high school coach with his criticism of his players. Difficult for me to understand that when he recruited them.
Drank some $8 beers. Many were partaking. Food was really good.

Any food and drink consumed in a place without cupholders and while losing were not optimized.

 

[The Coup Nazi]

Any food and drink consumed in a place without cupholders and while losing were not optimized.

I don’t need no stinking cup holder. I found a flat headed date who isn’t fond of basketball to take to the games.

 

[anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7]

Lawson and Bolden are in a slump. Without them, we don't have much offense. IMO, Lawson shouldn't be running point, his main priority should be scoring.

 

[CCUIrmo]

Any food and drink consumed in a place without cupholders and while losing were not optimized.

Cupholders would have been a plus. Last night I sat in section 111 a few rows back of the band and didnt even have a full arm rest. It was just the metal it is screwed into. I think its about time to do a bit of fixing up in Colonial Life. Its a nice place but is starting to need work.

 

[DukeDenver]

Frank failed to recruit well off the Final 4 run. The warchest is empty again.

I want to know why we missed on every single top recruit following that run. The answer to that question would influences whether we keep Frank or let him go.

 

[coolcock2001]

I went too. Congratulations. I actually had a good time

 

[JDishnell]

I want to know why we missed on every single top recruit following that run. The answer to that question would influences whether we keep Frank or let him go.

I guess he sort of gets a pass for Zion. We aren't going to take players away from Duke. It's kind of sad that it doesn't seem he ever really even considered us though.

But losing in-state players to Tennessee and Alabama shouldn't happen.

 

[king ward]

Cupholders would have been a plus. Last night I sat in section 111 a few rows back of the band and didnt even have a full arm rest. It was just the metal it is screwed into. I think its about time to do a bit of fixing up in Colonial Life. Its a nice place but is starting to need work.

It was built on the cheap and substandard from Day One - respectfully.

 

[king ward]

I don’t need no stinking cup holder. I found a flat headed date who isn’t fond of basketball to take to the games.

Not everyone is so fortunate. That particular cranium type isn't common, especially in women. You were referring to a woman, were you not?

 

[coolcock2001]

It was built on the cheap and substandard from Day One - respectfully.

Largely so that this community could have a concert venue. No one thanks us though

 

[classof95#]

The only thing you say that I truly disagree with is about Frank developing players. I think he does develop players very well, i.e. Notice, Silva, and even Kotsar this year all were better each year and by their senior years they were all really light years beyond where they were their freshman years.
However the problem is that Frank has a very hard time holding on to many, if any, players for four years. they either transfer out or are removed from the team. When you see the team last year have only one player graduate that stayed four years and before that it was Thornwell and Notice two years ago.
Frank is not the kind of coach that will succeed in todays basketball world doing as he has always done. I personally like Frank alot and have met him and talked with him. He is a really great guy and one I would love for my kids to learn from and listen to. However todays players want to be pampered and touted as great at all times like they were during AAU ball (which has 100% destroyed the game of basketball). Frank wont do that. Most other coaches wont do that fully either but are willing to meet in the middle. Frank is very stubborn and with that being the case he is where he will remain, a frustrated coach that hovers around .500 each year.

I think CFM does develop players well, and I've said this before. His teams play better at the end of the season, which supports this idea. I now think he could develop players more successfully with more composure/restraint. Screaming every time someone makes a mistake gets old fast and causes most people to tune out. Sure, his message comes through occasionally. He would be more effective with occasional fits of rage. He would be much more effective if he learned to temper his anger completely. This isn't my personal opinion, behavioral science has proven this. If you disagree, look at coaches who have been successful during the past 20 years and show me one who frequently has screaming frenzies during games.

I'm not suggesting we fire CFM. I would like to see him improve as a coach and game manager. It's possible, however it's up to him.

 

[JDishnell]

I think CFM does develop players well, and I've said this before. His teams play better at the end of the season, which supports this idea. I now think he could develop players more successfully with more composure/restraint. Screaming every time someone makes a mistake gets old fast and causes most people to tune out. Sure, his message comes through occasionally. He would be more effective with occasional fits of rage. He would be much more effective if he learned to temper his anger completely. This isn't my personal opinion, behavioral science has proven this. If you disagree, look at coaches who have been successful during the past 20 years and show me one who frequently has screaming frenzies during games.

I'm not suggesting we fire CFM. I would like to see him improve as a coach and game manager. It's possible, however it's up to him.

We play better at the end of the season? I've heard people say this about Frank's teams, but I don't see it.

2015-2016 we started 15-0 and then went 9-8 over our final 17 games.

2017-2018 we finished 4-9 in our last 13 games.

2018-2019 we finished 6-7 in our last 13 games

 

[fowl_mood]

When coaches fail here, which Martin has actually done after 8 years, the "give them five years" crowd becomes the "give them ten years" crowd. I don't get it. Enough time is enough time. He did not take responsibility for the Stetson debacle, he was evasive in his answers last night, he gives few answers except to question and be suspicious of his players. The schtick is old and ineffective. He knows he cannot win here. The atmosphere in that arena last night was utter resignation at games end that the program is stuck in the mud. For those who love to keep failing coaches, I think this is his last year and he knows it.

 

[coolcock2001]

We play better at the end of the season? I've heard people say this about Frank's teams, but I don't see it.

2015-2016 we started 15-0 and then went 9-8 over our final 17 games.

2017-2018 we finished 4-9 in our last 13 games.

2018-2019 we finished 6-7 in our last 13 games

2016-2017 we had the best season in school history. You forgot that one.

 

[JDishnell]

2016-2017 we had the best season in school history. You forgot that one.

Yes, thanks for the correction.

2016-2017: We almost played ourselves out of the tournament that season, going 3-5 down the stretch with a few bad losses and then losing to a very mediocre Bama in the SECT. We did not finish that regular season strong either. We kind of got a make-up from the committee from not having made the tourney the previous season, when we more deserving, and the team certainly made the most of the opportunity.

 

[coolcock2001]

Didn't forget it all. However, I don't include outliers.

Do you define Brad Scott's tenure by the bowl win season, or mostly by the other dud seasons?

A Carquest Bowl cuts no ice. A Final 4 is a huge achievement, one I never really thought I'd see here. I'm not as quick to forget it as some

 

[JDishnell]

A Carquest Bowl cuts no ice. A Final 4 is a huge achievement, one I never really thought I'd see here. I'm not as quick to forget it as some

Quoted post has been revised.

We did not finish 2016-2017 regular season well either, so it actually fits the trend. Good catch, thanks.

 

[CCUIrmo]

I think CFM does develop players well, and I've said this before. His teams play better at the end of the season, which supports this idea. I now think he could develop players more successfully with more composure/restraint. Screaming every time someone makes a mistake gets old fast and causes most people to tune out. Sure, his message comes through occasionally. He would be more effective with occasional fits of rage. He would be much more effective if he learned to temper his anger completely. This isn't my personal opinion, behavioral science has proven this. If you disagree, look at coaches who have been successful during the past 20 years and show me one who frequently has screaming frenzies during games.

I'm not suggesting we fire CFM. I would like to see him improve as a coach and game manager. It's possible, however it's up to him.

I agree it is getting old with fans and players. When Kotsar first got here, when he was pulled off the court he would stop and look at Frank and listen to him while getting chewed out. Now he walks by and pays little attention.
Frank is very different this year though. I think it may be extreme frustration with the team in that he thought more highly of them than they are performing. He seems to almost be past yelling now and more towards not knowing what to do.
I knew he was going crazy a few games back when, and I thought it was funny at the time but not so much now, how at a time out the team manager did not have the board to frank to write up plays right away. frank screamed so loud I heard it in upper deck, about asking where his d@$& board was. The manager ran to him with it and Frank laid into him. While coming off the court, Kotsar passed the manager and just patted him on the back and you could see him telling him to not worry about it. The team manager was scared to death at that point and clearly rattled for a while.
I understand time outs are not long and coaches need the stuff but that was a little much by Frank. His temper is getting to him more now than ever.
I am not saying it will happen but sometimes your temper begins to control you and you do something you regret and it scars you forever, i.e. Bobby Knight. frank needs to settle down a bit.

 

[TheReelEss]

I notice the local sports talking heads who defended Frank on the basis of making the Final 4 and who called disgruntled fans unreasonable are also beginning to turn. Once the Flagship turns on a coach, you can tell said coach is in a downward trajectory. They almost turned on BOOM! this season until Ray went on Jay's show and read him and Tommy the official talking points.

 

[classof95#]

We play better at the end of the season? I've heard people say this about Frank's teams, but I don't see it.

2015-2016 we started 15-0 and then went 9-8 over our final 17 games.

2017-2018 we finished 4-9 in our last 13 games.

2018-2019 we finished 6-7 in our last 13 games

2018-2019: 5-8 in non-conference play, and 11-8 in SEC (including tournament). Improvement.

2017-2018: 9-4 in non-conference play, and 8-12 in SEC (including tournament). Improvement debatable, in non-conference play only one team was good, Tx Tech.

2016-2017: 10-3 in non-conference play, and 12-7 in SEC (including tournament), and final four in NCAA tournament. Improvement.

 

[JDishnell]

2018-2019: 5-8 in non-conference play, and 11-8 in SEC (including tournament). Improvement.

2017-2018: 9-4 in non-conference play, and 8-12 in SEC (including tournament). Improvement debatable, in non-conference play only one team was good, Tx Tech.

2016-2017: 10-3 in non-conference play, and 12-7 in SEC (including tournament), and final four in NCAA tournament. Improvement.

You're talking about overall record, which was not the subject of the discussion. The statement in question is that Frank's teams play better at the end of the season. The stats don't support that. We didn't even finish the 2016-2017 regular season well.

 

[Wiles2]

I went to the game last night. First time I've seen a game in many, many moons. My observations:
There wasn't an NBA player on the floor.
Lawson wouldn't play in the GLeague at this stage.
7 coaches on our bench. Not much coaching going on. Mike White coached hard all night.
It appears Frank and his staff are resigned to the fact that they are done.
Frank's post game presser furthers this point.
He acts like a high school coach with his criticism of his players. Difficult for me to understand that when he recruited them.
Drank some $8 beers. Many were partaking. Food was really good.

I see

 

[classof95#]

You're talking about overall record, which was not the subject of the discussion. The statement in question is that Frank's teams play better at the end of the season. The stats don't support that. We didn't even finish the 2016-2017 regular season well.

I'm not talking about overall record. I'm splitting the season just as you are. You picked "final 17 games" and "final 13 games" to split the season. I compared non-conference record with SEC record to split the season. To me, it's clear that we improved when our record was better in SEC play vs non-conference play, and when our team went to the final 4. I agree in 2017-2018 improvement was debatable, and noted an argument can be made that 8-12 in SEC is better than 9-4 against weaker competition.

 

[JDishnell]

I'm not talking about overall record. I'm splitting the season just as you are. You picked "final 17 games" and "final 13 games" to split the season. I compared non-conference record with SEC record to split the season. To me, it's clear that we improved when our record was better in SEC play vs non-conference play, and when our team went to the final 4. I agree in 2017-2018 improvement was debatable, and noted an argument can be made that 8-12 in SEC is better than 9-4 against weaker competition.

The statement was specifically at about ending the season well. I'm looking at games down the stretch. Yeah, we were particularly bad in a couple seasons in our last 13 or so games, but I could have taken a smaller sample size closer to the end of the season.

Simple fact is that Frank's teams have not generally played well down the stretch of the regular season.

2015-2016 is the prime example. A NCAAT bid was there for taking until we stumbled to a 3-4 record to close the close the season and then lost to an average UGA in the SECT.

 

[Garnet chicken]

Anyone that can't tell that the BB team is out of order is looking through Frank's glasses. I honestly think he knows it's bad and he wants out. The team needs a new staff and some more talented players.

 

[paladin181]

I don’t need no stinking cup holder. I found a flat headed date who isn’t fond of basketball to take to the games.

She isn't a midget, is she?

 

[The Coup Nazi]

She isn't a midget, is she?

No. In fact she’s taller than me and about 235. It’s not the sex. It’s just frustrating to hold an $8 beer and spill half of it when I get pissed off at a game.

 

[The Coup Nazi]

Not everyone is so fortunate. That particular cranium type isn't common, especially in women. You were referring to a woman, were you not?

Yes but at 8 bucks a beer I’d use a Pickens County cow if I had to.

 

[atl-cock]

I guess he sort of gets a pass for Zion. We aren't going to take players away from Duke. It's kind of sad that it doesn't seem he ever really even considered us though.

But losing in-state players to Tennessee and Alabama shouldn't happen.

Personally, I have no desire to have any "one-and-dones" on the team. Regardless of sport.

 

[JDishnell]

Personally, I have no desire to have any "one-and-dones" on the team. Regardless of sport.

I hate that it exists, but it does. You can't legitimately say you'd have passed on having Zion Williamson on this team. He alone would have carried us to the tournament. We'd have sold out our home schedule, most likely. We'd have been on TV a ton.