I would like to have a intelligent discussion about the horrible shooting that occurred today in Boulder, Co. No politics allowed.

[ghostofpepsicock]

As stated before, criminals do not follow laws. Having a "No Concealed Weapons" decal on the door of your business/establishment only keeps law abiding citizens from carrying.

Someone who is intent on killing will not turn around when they see that decal on the door. They will know that there will be little to no resistance inside due to no one else being armed.

New "laws" will only affect people that follow laws. People that follow laws are not breaking them. The criminal will do what they are going to regardless of any law passed.

 

[WingchunCock]

There is no chance at gun control. It's just political gas for right wingers to use to fuel their political agendas.

“Shall not infringe”

 

[TheReelEss]

Hi Freddie. Hope you are well.

Guns are out there. The challenge is limiting their distribution. I would support tougher background checks, real red flag laws with some teeth, and applying fault for crimes committed with guns to sellers who don't do due diligence and tracking before selling, with a reasonable statute of limitations.

The kinds of guns don't matter. The kinds of people who get them do.

You and I know, though, that in a divided society with a lack of respect for all human life, it won't change much.

We already have these things. I mean if you want to buy a gun in an alley there's an understanding between the seller and the buyer that they're both breaking the law. Another law isn't stop the lawless. They care not for laws. We'll likely learn that the shooter is certified bat$#!+ crazy and was in violation of a slew of gun laws already on the books. Red flag laws are a bit of a constitutional issue. I see the need, but cops would be taking guns with no due process. That's a slippery slope to cops just taking all guns just so no one gets hurt. And guess whose guns they'll get? The law abiding folks' whose guns are legally registered and not used in crimes.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Only about 3.5% of gun homicides are with rifles, and that's all rifles combined. As usual, the MSM distorts the facts and misleads people.

For murdering people, rifles are slightly less deadly than blunt objects.

 

[scbirdhunter]

We had an "assault weapons" ban for a while. What happened during that time?

Columbine.

Silly argument. (eg) We have drunk drivers killing people every day. Can't stop them, I guess we should just do away with all DUI laws. Just throw our hands up & say it is what it is. Same with murder, laws don't stop homicides, they happen every day, should we make no attempt to deter them? To my knowledge very few, if any, laws have ever completely stopped a specific crime. I doubt any sane person would argue that since people still commit those crimes we should just do away with the law. That is a completely moronic position.
No credible person would argue that any type of gun restriction is going to stop all gun violence nor is more mental health assistance. About the best we can hope to ever achieve is to take action to make it more difficult to carry out these type crimes.

 

[TheReelEss]

Only about 3.5% of gun homicides are with rifles, and that's all rifles combined. As usual, the MSM distorts the facts and misleads people.

But they're so scary looking!

 

[WingchunCock]

You just proved mine. Only the bad guys will have them if we ban them and don't say the police will protect us. They won't.

The police only show up in time to put up the crime scene tape.

 

[Tankernav]

I support The 2nd amendment, I own and shoot 2 hand guns, I have a CWP. But I have never understood the need for ownership of AR 15’s. I don’t know if it is a good hunting weapon as I don’t hunt. So, owners of AR’S why?

 

[TheReelEss]

Silly argument. (eg) We have drunk drivers killing people every day. Can't stop them, I guess we should just do away with all DUI laws. Just throw our hands up & say it is what it is. Same with murder, laws don't stop homicides, they happen every day, should we make no attempt to deter them? To my knowledge very few, if any, laws have ever completely stopped a specific crime. I doubt any sane person would argue since people still commit those crimes we should just do away with the law. That is a completely moronic position.
No credible person would argue that any type of gun restriction is going to stop all gun violence nor is more mental health assistance. About the best we can hope to ever achieve is to take action to make it more difficult to carry out these type crimes.

Allowing people to be armed in places of business would curb most of the soft target shootings. These people may be crazy, but they're smart enough to choose places they can inflict the most carnage on unarmed people.

 

[WingchunCock]

I support The 2nd amendment, I own and shoot 2 hand guns, I have a CWP. But I have never understood the need for ownership of AR 15’s. I don’t know if it is a good hunting weapon as I don’t hunt. So, owners of AR’S why?

I have several friends that hunt with them. They are not my personal taste but are for others due to the customization options. At the end of the day it is still a semi-automatic weapon like a Glock or lever action...

 

[TheReelEss]

I have several friends that hunt with them. They are not my personal taste but are for others due to the customization options. At the end of the day it is still a semi-automatic weapon like a Glock or lever action...

I have one for hunting. Not that I actually hunt. But it's set up for that with a scope. You can make a very good hunting rifle out of them. My buddy hunts hogs with his to get a good follow-up shot. But it's serviceable for deer. Especially if you upgrade to a higher caliber upper.

 

[uscwatson21]

I support The 2nd amendment, I own and shoot 2 hand guns, I have a CWP. But I have never understood the need for ownership of AR 15’s. I don’t know if it is a good hunting weapon as I don’t hunt. So, owners of AR’S why?

I don’t understand it either. It’s designed for war.

 

[AsTheCockCrows]

I support The 2nd amendment, I own and shoot 2 hand guns, I have a CWP. But I have never understood the need for ownership of AR 15’s. I don’t know if it is a good hunting weapon as I don’t hunt. So, owners of AR’S why?

I am not going to tell you if I have weapons or not but from what I have heard, AK's and AR's are used particularly in hog hunting. They would not be a good first choice in self defense, unless one lived alone. If one had a family, those rounds are going to go through drywall like butter. They are also popular because they are fun to shoot and, well basically, "just because." I have shot both with friends and they are a fun gun to shoot.

 

[scbirdhunter]

In all my years of different types of hunting I've never seen anybody hunting with an AR15 or anything similar. Not once. I'm sure some people do hunt with them. My feeling is if you need a semiautomatic weapon to hunt you probably should spend more time at the range.
I know several people who own an AR15. They are sane & don't worry me one bit. Just don't try to sell me that a guy who wants to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible is just as deadly with 44 mag handgun as he is with an AR15. You do that & either you're a liar or don't know squat about guns.
In 10 min Stephen Paddock fired more than 1000 rounds at people attending a music concert. He killed 60 people & wounded more than 400.

 

[Who Cares_Who Cares]

Silly argument. (eg) We have drunk drivers killing people every day. Can't stop them, I guess we should just do away with all DUI laws. Just throw our hands up & say it is what it is. Same with murder, laws don't stop homicides, they happen every day, should we make no attempt to deter them? To my knowledge very few, if any, laws have ever completely stopped a specific crime. I doubt any sane person would argue that since people still commit those crimes we should just do away with the law. That is a completely moronic position.
No credible person would argue that any type of gun restriction is going to stop all gun violence nor is more mental health assistance. About the best we can hope to ever achieve is to take action to make it more difficult to carry out these type crimes.

I don't quite think the murder law analogy works. Murder is by its nature creates a victim. This means there will typically be an aggrieved party with an interest in pursuing justice. (In fact, I'd go as far to say that legal prohibition on murder probably doesn't even really matter, since people have eagerly sought revenge for millennia before politicians wrote down that they should.)

A violation of gun laws, by contrast, amounts to a victimless "crime" (like drugs, gambling, prostitution, etc.) When one person sells an illegal weapon to another, neither of them want to get caught, and both take precautions not to. Unlike with the murder, there's typically no one there to sound the alarm or to even know it's happening. As a result, sizable communities can emerge and easily avoid detection for long periods (black markets.) This can lead to further "illicit" activities and undermine respect for the law itself.

It's entirely possible for someone to prefer fewer guns in a vacuum but to also acknowledge the unintended consequences of prohibition efforts.

 

[TheReelEss]

In all my years of different types of hunting I've never seen anybody hunting with an AR15 or anything similar. Not once. If you need a semiautomatic weapon to hunt you probably should spend more time at the range.
I know several people who own an AR15. They are sane & don't worry me one bit. Just don't try to sell me that a guy who wants to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible is just as deadly with 44 mag handgun as he is with an AR15. You do that & either you're a liar or don't know squat about guns.
In 10 min Stephen Paddock fired more than 1000 rounds at people attending a music concert. He killed 60 people & wounded more than 400.

Well, the bumpstock is now banned, not that that ban would have stopped someone who's willing to commit mass murder. I know two hog hunters that use them. And there is a slew of semiauto hunting rifles, shotguns and handguns of all kinds. Check out all these videos of people hunting with AR rifles.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hunting+with+ar+rifles

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Silly argument. (eg) We have drunk drivers killing people every day. Can't stop them, I guess we should just do away with all DUI laws. Just throw our hands up & say it is what it is. Same with murder, laws don't stop homicides, they happen every day, should we make no attempt to deter them? To my knowledge very few, if any, laws have ever completely stopped a specific crime. I doubt any sane person would argue that since people still commit those crimes we should just do away with the law. That is a completely moronic position.
No credible person would argue that any type of gun restriction is going to stop all gun violence nor is more mental health assistance. About the best we can hope to ever achieve is to take action to make it more difficult to carry out these type crimes.

Nothing silly or moronic about it at all. Banning "assault rifles" is like banning vodka to stop DUIs, but still allowed everything else alcoholic under the sun to be sold, because 3.5% of DUI deaths involve vodka.

Laws that ban something don't deter anything. The only thing people understand is harsh consequences, and even then, it will never stop everything. We need laws that allow for very harsh criminal prosecution for people that misuse guns. And they need to be enforced. Strictly.

 

[uscwatson21]

We need laws that allow for very harsh criminal prosecution for people that misuse guns. And they need to be enforced. Strictly.

Which is exactly why we need a national gun registry to know exactly who to punish for guns getting into the hands of criminals.

 

[WingchunCock]

I don’t understand it either. It’s designed for war.

That’s incorrect

 

[WingchunCock]

Which is exactly why we need a national gun registry to know exactly who to punish for guns getting into the hands of criminals.

Germany had a national gun registry. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[TheReelEss]

Which is exactly why we need a national gun registry to know exactly who to punish for guns getting into the hands of criminals.

The vast majority of guns used in crimes are stolen. Stealing is already illegal.

 

[AsTheCockCrows]

Just based on your handle, I am sure you are correct saying that in all your years of hunting.....
Probably would not be the best approach for bird hunters to try to mow down flocks of ducks with an AK47. Although come to think of it, it would be fun!
Your argument does not hold up against the facts. Despite what Stephen Paddock did, the facts are that the VAST and overwhelming majority of gun violence in this country was caused by HAND GUNS. Its not that semi autos like the AR are that much more difficult to get. Its just that they are difficult to conceal, which is what most criminals and mass shooters are concerned with. Now would I rather face a gunman armed with a 9 mill than an AK? If I have to be put in that situation, absolutely. No doubt about it, but your argument does not square with the facts and statistics.

In all my years of different types of hunting I've never seen anybody hunting with an AR15 or anything similar. Not once. I'm sure some people do hunt with them. My feeling is if you need a semiautomatic weapon to hunt you probably should spend more time at the range.
I know several people who own an AR15. They are sane & don't worry me one bit. Just don't try to sell me that a guy who wants to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible is just as deadly with 44 mag handgun as he is with an AR15. You do that & either you're a liar or don't know squat about guns.
In 10 min Stephen Paddock fired more than 1000 rounds at people attending a music concert. He killed 60 people & wounded more than 400.

 

[AsTheCockCrows]

Which is exactly why we need a national gun registry to know exactly who to punish for guns getting into the hands of criminals.

HELL NO. Guns get into the hands of criminals via the black market and by Ricky needing a bag of dope so he exchanges his gun to the dope dealer for said dope. Or, the guns are just stolen from cars and from homes. A national gun registry is a HORRIBLE, UN AMERICAN idea.

 

[hahnenkampf]

The vast majority of guns used in crimes are stolen. Stealing is already illegal.

Ding, Ding!

 

[scbirdhunter]

Nothing silly or moronic about it at all. Banning "assault rifles" is like banning vodka to stop DUIs, but still allowed everything else alcoholic under the sun to be sold, because 3.5% of DUI deaths involve vodka.

Laws that ban something don't deter anything. The only thing people understand is harsh consequences, and even then, it will never stop everything. We need laws that allow for very harsh criminal prosecution for people that misuse guns. And they need to be enforced. Strictly.

Laws that ban something don't deter anything? Really? You think banning counterfeit products doesn't deter some people from selling them? You think banning contraband from foreign countries doesn't deter some people from bringing it back on an airliner. I know a lot of people who own lots of guns including AR's. I do not know of a single person who owns a machine gun. Gee, I wonder why.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Which is exactly why we need a national gun registry to know exactly who to punish for guns getting into the hands of criminals.

In a perfect world, yes, but we all know the data would be used for anti-gun and anti-gun owner purposes. Still wouldn't help but with a handful of cases.

 

[Dizzy01]

We already have these things. I mean if you want to buy a gun in an alley there's an understanding between the seller and the buyer that they're both breaking the law. Another law isn't stop the lawless. They care not for laws. We'll likely learn that the shooter is certified bat$#!+ crazy and was in violation of a slew of gun laws already on the books. Red flag laws are a bit of a constitutional issue. I see the need, but cops would be taking guns with no due process. That's a slippery slope to cops just taking all guns just so no one gets hurt. And guess whose guns they'll get? The law abiding folks' whose guns are legally registered and not used in crimes.

Buying a gun in an alley isn’t in violation of the law. Private gun sales are excluded from the laws pertaining to background checks. Buying it in an alley, at a gun show or from the trailer park are all the same.

 

[uscg1984]

Only reasonable discussion and opinions allowed.

My understanding is the shooter used an assault rifle to perform his dastardly deed.

Do you believe the banning of assault rifles would prevent these mass shooting/murders?

I don't believe for one second that the banning of assault rifles would prevent these type of shootings. If they were banned nationally I personally believe there would be an underground network of assault rifles being manufactured and sold that would make bootleg whiskey in the 1920s look like a Sunday School Picnic.

Freddie, with all due respect, you can't introduce a political hot-button political issue like gun control and then implore people not to let the thread get "political."

I have pretty strong opinions about the topic, but my thoughts right now are that we should probably let the facts of this investigation come out, and view them in the context of overall murder rates in the US, before letting an event that's less than 18hrs old drive public policy. I dont even think authorities have released the guy's name yet.

 

[Dizzy01]

I support The 2nd amendment, I own and shoot 2 hand guns, I have a CWP. But I have never understood the need for ownership of AR 15’s. I don’t know if it is a good hunting weapon as I don’t hunt. So, owners of AR’S why?

Most won’t admit it but it’s compensation. It’s the same reason why a subset of gun owners can’t move without putting on their concealed carry.

 

[milehighcock93]

Define assault rifle?

In my high school in late 80s, every pickup truck had a gun rack w/ at least a shotgun &/or high-powered rifle visible. Who knows what was in the car trunks, lockers, and backpacks? Regardless, there were no school shootings or mass murders to speak of.
What’s changed in our society, culture, politics, heart?... I wish I knew.
From my observation there’s a few glaring differences and none of this is meant as political. First, our culture seems to be in a decline. Common faith(s) and basic morality that reinforces and undergirds society is certainly on the decline. The lack of respect for human life is commonplace. Constantly, we’re surrounded with violence and its glorification, along with pornography, and faux outrage. All of this is just a few clicks away for adults and children. Also front & center, a 24 hr sensational news cycle hellbent on views/clicks, without a common set of facts from which to build arguments and debates.
Again, this is just a quick observation from one 50 y.o man. There’s plenty to be positive about and I try hard to put my focus there. Many changes for the betterment of all have occurred. While people are always evolving and changing, I simply conclude that our society and culture has been declining.

 

[uscwatson21]

That’s incorrect

that isn’t incorrect at all. The fact you would post something so factually wrong shows your true intentions not to have an honest conversation.

 

[WingchunCock]

Define assault rifle?

In my high school in late 80s, every pickup truck had a gun rack w/ at least a shotgun &/or high-powered rifle visible. Who knows what was in the car trunks, lockers, and backpacks? Regardless, there were no school shootings or mass murders to speak of.
What’s changed in our society, culture, politics, heart?... I wish I knew.
From my observation there’s a few glaring differences and none of this is meant as political. First, our culture seems to be in a decline. Common faith(s) and basic morality that reinforces and undergirds society is certainly on the decline. The lack of respect for human life is commonplace. Constantly, we’re surrounded with violence and its glorification, along with pornography, and faux outrage. All of this is just a few clicks away for adults and children. Also front & center, a 24 hr sensational news cycle hellbent on views/clicks, without a common set of facts from which to build arguments and debates.
Again, this is just a quick observation from one 50 y.o man. There’s plenty to be positive about and I try hard to put my focus there. Many changes for the betterment of all have occurred. While people are always evolving and changing, I simply conclude that our society and culture has been declining.

Moral decline, unequal application of laws and justice, division promoted for political gain, mental health crisis all add up to a Pandora’s box of violence just waiting to happen.

 

[uscwatson21]

HELL NO. Guns get into the hands of criminals via the black market and by Ricky needing a bag of dope so he exchanges his gun to the dope dealer for said dope. Or, the guns are just stolen from cars and from homes. A national gun registry is a HORRIBLE, UN AMERICAN idea.

So you admit people are irresponsible with their gun ownership but don’t want to track those people to prevent them from owning guns in the future.

Let that sink in for a minute. Because it sounds idiotic.

 

[WingchunCock]

that isn’t incorrect at all. The fact you would post something so factually wrong shows your true intentions not to have an honest conversation.

You know nothing about what an AR is.

 

[scbirdhunter]

Freddie, with all due respect, you can't introduce a political hot-button political issue like gun control and then implore people not to let the thread get "political."

I have pretty strong opinions about the topic, but my thoughts right now are that we should probably let the facts of this investigation come out, and view them in the context of overall murder rates in the US, before letting an event that's less than 18hrs old drive public policy. I dont even think authorities have released the guy's name yet.

Yet one poster here already said the suspect knew Publix did not permit people to carry in their stores so he knew ahead of time he would face no resistance. How he knows this I have no idea, maybe he can also give us a motive for these killings when he gets a chance.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Freddie I understand your desire for a reasonable discussion, BUT anytime a human being murders 10 people including a police officer there are political and policy overtones that are just there ..... terrorism, mental health policy, gun ownership policy, public safety policy and those are the tip of the iceberg knowing nothing about the shooter except race and gender

But many of the things above are what I want to discuss. Not the political aspect, e.g., the Republican's are responsible for these shooting or the Democrats want to ban all guns or the NRA is responsible, etc., etc.

There are many aspects to these type shootings. Who knows what was on that deranged person's mind. Was he mentally ill, was he bullied in the work place, were there a million other things in this person's life that made him do the things he did. These are some of the things I wanted to discuss?

 

[uscwatson21]

You know nothing about what an AR is.

Now you’re projecting.

 

[scbirdhunter]

Just based on your handle, I am sure you are correct saying that in all your years of hunting.....
Probably would not be the best approach for bird hunters to try to mow down flocks of ducks with an AK47. Although come to think of it, it would be fun!
Your argument does not hold up against the facts. Despite what Stephen Paddock did, the facts are that the VAST and overwhelming majority of gun violence in this country was caused by HAND GUNS. Its not that semi autos like the AR are that much more difficult to get. Its just that they are difficult to conceal, which is what most criminals and mass shooters are concerned with. Now would I rather face a gunman armed with a 9 mill than an AK? If I have to be put in that situation, absolutely. No doubt about it, but your argument does not square with the facts and statistics.

I guess you missed this
In all my years of different types of hunting I've never seen anybody hunting with an AR15 or anything similar.

What argument doesn't hold up. I know more people are killed with handguns than rifles. Thats plain common sense. There are a ton more hand guns out there than AR's. I would guess, and its only a guess, that a large percentage of that gun violence happens within the house of a gun holder. So specifically what argument did I make that doesn't hold up or are you making up BS. So what facts do I have wrong? Come on, lay it out.

 

[TheReelEss]

I support The 2nd amendment, I own and shoot 2 hand guns, I have a CWP. But I have never understood the need for ownership of AR 15’s. I don’t know if it is a good hunting weapon as I don’t hunt. So, owners of AR’S why?

The 2A doesn't mention "need". But it's an excellent hunting weapon, especially if modified for a specific purpose. You can change the caliber and barrel length just by changing the upper half of the weapon if you want to buy a complete upper. It's very versatile.

 

[Tallacock]

Crazy people will do what’re necessary to cause mass bodily harm. Gun bans won’t stop it. I found a way to get bartles and James at the age of 17.
Instead of an assault rifle it will be something else.

This is where you start. Mental health is behind a lot of this, along with the homeless. We have done away with most State run mental health hospitals. We need tp tackle this and it would solve many of our problems.