ADVERTISEMENT

Interesting article on the USC-Dook game..

You would think the ACC would have realized what a great member USC was because of all the interest in the games USC played against them. They didn't do much to try and keep USC as a member and when USC realized what a mistake was made and tried to rejoin in the late 70s the ACC set conditions for rejoining that were humiliating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N ikolas
I would have loved to been old enough to see some of these great games. Great stories from the past. I love McGuire coming out in the 1971 ACC champs warm ups in 1972 vs UNC.


"McGuire’s team won the ACC title (as South Carolina guard Kevin Joyce out-jumped UNC’s center Lee Dedmon for a crucial jump ball) and earned a trip to Raleigh for the East Regionals.

It’s impossible to recapture the ugliness in Reynolds Coliseum that weekend. Penn couldn’t not have had more of a homecourt advantage had the game been played in the Palestra as Tobacco Road fans packed the arena to pull against the hated Gamecocks.

The Gamecocks ended their association with the ACC by losing to the Quakers, then to Fordham in the consolation game.

A year later, newly independent South Carolina faced ACC champion North Carolina in the East Regional semifinals in Morganton, W. Va. McGuire tried to stir things up by having his team come out for warm-ups wearing jackets that proclaimed “1971 ACC Champions”.

UNC blew them out as South Carolina entered more than 40 years in the basketball wilderness."

"McGuire was especially bitter in 1970 when his best South Carolina team, undefeated in the ACC regular season, was upset by N.C. State in the ACC championship game.

Compounding the bad feelings was the belligerent nature of McGuire’s great team. His players brawled around the league. In a fight with Maryland, John Ribock coldcocked Coach Lefty Driesell, while another Gamecock player pinned Driesell’s arms to his side. John Roche kicked Duke’s Dick DeVenzio in the balls when the Blue Devil guard was lying on the floor. Kevin Joyce kicked UNC’s George Karl."

They should make a movie about all of this...I guess Disgrayson tripping people now is not so bad after all.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: fire ant and Fact Smatter
jerryusc said:
You would think the ACC would have realized what a great member USC was because of all the interest in the games USC played against them. They didn't do much to try and keep USC as a member and when USC realized what a mistake was made and tried to rejoin in the late 70s the ACC set conditions for rejoining that were humiliating.
Click to expand...
Sadly, we missed them more than they missed us. Especially when they got back up to 8 members with Georgia Tech joining.
 
jerryusc said:
You would think the ACC would have realized what a great member USC was because of all the interest in the games USC played against them. They didn't do much to try and keep USC as a member and when USC realized what a mistake was made and tried to rejoin in the late 70s the ACC set conditions for rejoining that were humiliating.
Click to expand...

"tried to rejoin in the late 70s" revisionist history u spin there.

no covert or overt attempt 2 re-join..... per a longtime board member who served 70's- 80's
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fact Smatter
gamecockox said:
Let me first off state I am glad we are in the SEC. Wouldn't swap leagues with anyone.
But leaving the acc set us backward 20 plus years of success in basketball,
Click to expand...

All true, but I think Gamecock fans need to let it go. I think (most) all of us agree that we like being in the SEC better. Likewise, I don't think the ACC misses us. We're all better off now. We've now been in the SEC longer than we were in the ACC and the college sports world is NOTHING like it was 45 years ago. This is our home. Now that the NCAA tournament monkey is off our back, it's time to move on. It's time to establish ourselves as the next SEC basketball power and stop lamenting about games that were played half a century ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N ikolas
CockofEarle said:
"tried to rejoin in the late 70s" revisionist history u spin there.

no covert or overt attempt 2 re-join..... per a longtime board member who served 70's- 80's
Click to expand...
No. I have read articles about the rejoin effort. I was excited about it. If I remember correctly, the ACC wanted USC to pay them some such amt to make up for not being a member. It sounds as if you are calling me a liar. Learn some manners.

http://www.garnetandblackattack.com...outh-carolina-basketball-1972-2012-a-timeline
 
Last edited:
uscg1984 said:
All true, but I think Gamecock fans need to let it go. I think (most) all of us agree that we like being in the SEC better. Likewise, I don't think the ACC misses us. We're all better off now. We've now been in the SEC longer than we were in the ACC and the college sports world is NOTHING like it was 45 years ago. This is our home. Now that the NCAA tournament monkey is off our back, it's time to move on. It's time to establish ourselves as the next SEC basketball power and stop lamenting about games that were played half a century ago.
Click to expand...
That we keep lamenting about the ACC days is indicative of the general lack of success we've had in MBB since our departure, made all the worse by the exciting basketball we left behind.

Yes, keep the SEC membership. But let's try to add some more of our old ACC rivals (Maryland counts, Georgia Tech does not) to as many of our sports schedules as we can.

IMO, the ACC was sorry to see us go in principle, but probably relieved to not have to endure the negative energy; positive energy trumps USC's membership. Please note that Maryland's rise in hoops was not met with the same disdain as ours.

The talks about re-admission in the mid '70s was probably all back-channel. As a condition of readmission, I would have been okay with sharing all of our revenues with the other 7 during our time as an independent as long as they would redistribute their revenues during our time away 8 ways instead of 7.

Insofar as a "public apology", if we were truly interested in rejoining, I'm certain that a mutually acceptable public statement could have been drafted.
 
heelzfor2 said:
I would have loved to been old enough to see some of these great games. Great stories from the past. I love McGuire coming out in the 1971 ACC champs warm ups in 1972 vs UNC.


"McGuire’s team won the ACC title (as South Carolina guard Kevin Joyce out-jumped UNC’s center Lee Dedmon for a crucial jump ball) and earned a trip to Raleigh for the East Regionals.

It’s impossible to recapture the ugliness in Reynolds Coliseum that weekend. Penn couldn’t not have had more of a homecourt advantage had the game been played in the Palestra as Tobacco Road fans packed the arena to pull against the hated Gamecocks.

The Gamecocks ended their association with the ACC by losing to the Quakers, then to Fordham in the consolation game.

A year later, newly independent South Carolina faced ACC champion North Carolina in the East Regional semifinals in Morganton, W. Va. McGuire tried to stir things up by having his team come out for warm-ups wearing jackets that proclaimed “1971 ACC Champions”.

UNC blew them out as South Carolina entered more than 40 years in the basketball wilderness."

"McGuire was especially bitter in 1970 when his best South Carolina team, undefeated in the ACC regular season, was upset by N.C. State in the ACC championship game.

Compounding the bad feelings was the belligerent nature of McGuire’s great team. His players brawled around the league. In a fight with Maryland, John Ribock coldcocked Coach Lefty Driesell, while another Gamecock player pinned Driesell’s arms to his side. John Roche kicked Duke’s Dick DeVenzio in the balls when the Blue Devil guard was lying on the floor. Kevin Joyce kicked UNC’s George Karl."

They should make a movie about all of this...I guess Disgrayson tripping people now is not so bad after all.....
Click to expand...

I've known Roche for a long time. He said that those games were wars and it was too intense. By his senior year he had lost the joy of playing ACC basketball. He did say he did kick the Duke player and told Dean Smith to **** off on a couple of occasions. He says looking back on it now it embarrasses him how he reacted although there were lots of provocation. It was too nasty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: heelzfor2
  • Like
Reactions: Fact Smatter
This is true:

In a fight with Maryland, John Ribock coldcocked Coach Lefty Driesell,

This is a f'ing lie:

while another Gamecock player pinned Driesell’s arms to his side.

I was there. Lefty tried to pull Ribock off a MD player. Ribock turned around and hit him. He didn't take the time to see who it was and nobody held Lefty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: garnetandglad and trekcock
jerryusc said:
No. I have read articles about the rejoin effort. I was excited about it. If I remember correctly, the ACC wanted USC to pay them some such amt to make up for not being a member. It sounds as if you are calling me a liar. Learn some manners.

http://www.garnetandblackattack.com...outh-carolina-basketball-1972-2012-a-timeline
Click to expand...

have 2 stand by what board member told me, it was never addressed in a meeting......

& as far as calling u liar, u can interpret it however u like.....revision 2 history takes on it own legs.esp when fact & fiction are mixed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fact Smatter
CockofEarle said:
have 2 stand by what board member told me, it was never addressed in a meeting......

& as far as calling u liar, u can interpret it however u like.....revision 2 history takes on it own legs.esp when fact & fiction are mixed.
Click to expand...
OK. You seem somewhat of a SA so welcome to Ignoreville.
 
atl-cock said:
The talks about re-admission in the mid '70s was probably all back-channel. As a condition of readmission, I would have been okay with sharing all of our revenues with the other 7 during our time as an independent as long as they would redistribute their revenues during our time away 8 ways instead of 7.
Click to expand...

The problem being that our revenues from selling out a 70k seat football stadium was much greater than their gates from their 30k seat stadiums. That was most of sports revenue until the 90s.
 
Those were great years and each game was a war. There was only one ACC game of the week and the only channel we could watch it was WBT in Charlotte. Rabbit ears on TV with one of us kids moving them around when the picture went fuzzy. Rest of games had to be listened to on radio. They were all wars and I hated NC, Duke, Clemson and Maryland. Great times!
 
coxman said:
This is true:

In a fight with Maryland, John Ribock coldcocked Coach Lefty Driesell,

This is a f'ing lie:

while another Gamecock player pinned Driesell’s arms to his side.

I was there. Lefty tried to pull Ribock off a MD player. Ribock turned around and hit him. He didn't take the time to see who it was and nobody held Lefty.
Click to expand...
I was there and saw it differently. Driesell came up behind Ribock and tried to pull him off of a Maryland player Ribock was fighting with. Ribock looked to see who had grabbed him from behind, looked backed toward the player he was fighting with then turned back toward Driesell and punched him in the jaw. He knew it was Driesell. McGuire's defense of Ribock the next day on TV was, "Lefty probably hit himself."
 
CockofEarle said:
have 2 stand by what board member told me, it was never addressed in a meeting......

& as far as calling u liar, u can interpret it however u like.....revision 2 history takes on it own legs.esp when fact & fiction are mixed.
Click to expand...
That the possibility of readmission was addressed with the ACC and it never being brought up at a board meeting are not inconsistent. I would posit that the back-channel meetings did happen, but never got as far as being formally addressed in a board meeting.

I also read that when the ACC poached the Big East a dozen years ago, they checked in with us to see if we would be interested in coming back. I'm certain that the response was a polite "no thanks", but I wish they could have added that "it's too bad you didn't contact us 20-30 years ago."
 
Last edited:
gamecockox said:
Let me first off state I am glad we are in the SEC. Wouldn't swap leagues with anyone.

But leaving the acc set us backward 20 plus years of success in basketball,
Click to expand...
Actually considerably longer and not only basketball was affected. It took several years for us to become legitimate opposition in a great conference in most of our sports. And a lot of great fans passed from the Land of the Living during all those years. Leaving the ACC was disastrous and has only recently been mitigated by subsequent events.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoosterBooster1, garnetandglad and atl-cock
Leaving the ACC hurt us but had to be done. Integrity was far more important. Keep in mind, UNC was all for raising the minimum requirement in the league. We're the most vocal about it. This from a program that created fake classes to play ineligible players. For 30 years. Had to be done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: trekcock
jackrabbit slim said:
Leaving the ACC hurt us but had to be done. Integrity was far more important. Keep in mind, UNC was all for raising the minimum requirement in the league. We're the most vocal about it. This from a program that created fake classes to play ineligible players. For 30 years. Had to be done.
Click to expand...

If integrity was that important why would we favor loosening academic requirements? Or punch an opposing coach? Or our coach stating that the opposing coach must have "punched himself?"

IMO, if you can't score at least a 900 (old style) on the SAT, you probably don't have time for athletics and need to concentrate on your schoolwork.
 
  • Like
Reactions: king ward
atl-cock said:
If integrity was that important why would we favor loosening academic requirements? Or punch an opposing coach? Or our coach stating that the opposing coach must have "punched himself?"

IMO, if you can't score at least a 900 (old style) on the SAT, you probably don't have time for athletics and need to concentrate on your schoolwork.
Click to expand...
Fine, make that the same for everyone in the league. Dean Smith recruited a kid that couldn't read.
 
atl-cock said:
If integrity was that important why would we favor loosening academic requirements? Or punch an opposing coach? Or our coach stating that the opposing coach must have "punched himself?"

IMO, if you can't score at least a 900 (old style) on the SAT, you probably don't have time for athletics and need to concentrate on your schoolwork.
Click to expand...
The issue as I remember it was - number of football scholarships. Dietzel, Athletic Director and Head football coach, was recruiting over a hundred football players every year and didn't want to conform to an ACC rule of limited scholarships. I think McGuire's ego allowed him to believe he could produce winning basketball teams outside of ACC affiliation. He was wrong ...
 
John Roche.

Just the name evokes an era in the ACC when the league was territorial and the games often turned into controlled fights.

Frank McGuire, the old UNC coach, built his South Carolina teams from the street up. Tom Owens. Tom Riker. Kevin Joyce. The names still haunt the ACC.

John Ribock was listed as a 6-8 forward. Rival ACC fans considered him a 6-8 goon. He once hit Maryland coach Lefty Driesell in the mouth during a game and got away with it.

You had to be there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: king ward
boatingsportscock said:
The issue as I remember it was - number of football scholarships. Dietzel, Athletic Director and Head football coach, was recruiting over a hundred football players every year and didn't want to conform to an ACC rule of limited scholarships. I think McGuire's ego allowed him to believe he could produce winning basketball teams outside of ACC affiliation. He was wrong ...
Click to expand...
I recall it as the lowering of academic standards.

Your reading of it seems to be the polar opposite of (the state reason) why Georgia tech left the SEC - they wanted limited scholarships for each sport, and the rest of the league didn't.

Yes, McGuire thought his program was strong enough to remain a powerhouse as an independent. Indeed, he was wrong.
 
chucktowncock said:
John Roche.

Just the name evokes an era in the ACC when the league was territorial and the games often turned into controlled fights.

Frank McGuire, the old UNC coach, built his South Carolina teams from the street up. Tom Owens. Tom Riker. Kevin Joyce. The names still haunt the ACC.

John Ribock was listed as a 6-8 forward. Rival ACC fans considered him a 6-8 goon. He once hit Maryland coach Lefty Driesell in the mouth during a game and got away with it.

You had to be there.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Ribock and USC got away with it in the short run, but not long term............:(
 
atl-cock said:
I recall it as the lowering of academic standards.

Your reading of it seems to be the polar opposite of (the state reason) why Georgia tech left the SEC - they wanted limited scholarships for each sport, and the rest of the league didn't.

Yes, McGuire thought his program was strong enough to remain a powerhouse as an independent. Indeed, he was wrong.
Click to expand...
Who is lowering standards? Your comment is not clear to me. The ACC was raising academic standards. Dietzel and probably McGuire didn't want that. Freddie Solomon could not enroll at USC under these ACC requirements. Dietzel wanted Freddie Solomon to enroll.
 
atl-cock said:
I recall it as the lowering of academic standards.

Your reading of it seems to be the polar opposite of (the state reason) why Georgia tech left the SEC - they wanted limited scholarships for each sport, and the rest of the league didn't.

Yes, McGuire thought his program was strong enough to remain a powerhouse as an independent. Indeed, he was wrong.
Click to expand...

old 800 sat rule.....paul was losin 2 many recruits to jawja, etc.......as a rule of thumb basketball players didn't have, how do i put this "academic challenges". .....think of baseball 2day.....

as a matter of fact frank got a recruit the first yr out of acc that wanted n2 Moou but could not crack 800 rule.
 
boatingsportscock said:
Who is lowering standards? Your comment is not clear to me. The ACC was raising academic standards. Dietzel and probably McGuire didn't want that. Freddie Solomon could not enroll at USC under these ACC requirements. Dietzel wanted Freddie Solomon to enroll.
Click to expand...
The standards were raised before both McGuire and Dietzel came to Columbia. Thus, Dietzel was trying to lower the standards.

An example of which Cockofearle mentioned, both Roche and Owens were good students and had no academic issues.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Caleb Alexander

More info on Ryan Montgomery

Replies
1
Views
440
The Insiders Forum
Caleb Alexander
Caleb Alexander
Alan Cole

MBB vs. Tennessee Live Updates

Replies
42
Views
393
The Insiders Forum
Alan Cole
Alan Cole
L

2025 Blythewood DT Sterling Sanders drawing interest talks Gamecocks

Replies
0
Views
329
The Insiders Forum
Lee Wardlaw
L
L

South Carolina tenders offer to 6-5, 285 Charlotte 3-star DE Trajen Odom

Replies
0
Views
429
The Insiders Forum
Lee Wardlaw
L
L

High 4-star & No. 1 player in NC for '26 Samari Matthews talks South Carolina visit

Replies
0
Views
416
The Insiders Forum
Lee Wardlaw
L
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back