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OT: Anybody bought a new central A-C unit lately? We're being told . . .

Selling these you are. There isn't a HVAC system anywhere without some negatives. Want to try to cool Mall of America with mini splits. Its all about sq footage, layout, etc. Mini splits have their place, ducted has its place. I'm not on either soap box.
Actually I do sell these on the wholesale side and you are right in that minis have their place. However, what I am trying to convey is that inverter technology compressors is where the industry is headed and they to have models that can be ducted into regular duct work. Cooling and heating has now changed from old square footage formulas (when most all houses were built with 8' ceiling) to cubic footage due to more houses having higher ceilings, vaulted ceilings, and massive open spaces. And yes, they all have the negative side as well.
 
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Rather than crack into our central air that services the rest of the house (quite comfortably - don't want to mess with it), we put in a mini-split when I finished out the room over the garage. That little thing works great for that space. It was a little pricey, but serves the specific purpose well.
 
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you have been misinformed. A heat pump in cooling mode is just like an air conditioner. The difference is that the refrigerant flow can be reversed in the winter so it can pick up heat from outside to heat the air inside.

Not sure what you mean, but there are three types of heat pumps and none operate as a regular AC unit. Heat pumps move hot air from one place to the other. Regular AC units use freon, a chemical that boils at room temperature, to remove heat from the air. If your heat pump is nothing but an AC unit, please tell me why a heat pump is more effienciet cooling device than an AC unit. Talk about mis informed?
 
I bought my house 25 years ago from an engineer working at Santee Cooper. He built the house as energy efficient as possible... super insulated, thickly insulated the attic space against the roof, walls and doors. The best energy efficient Windows, spray insulation sealing all the cracks, etc. I now have two 13 seer units and air handlers. I keep my house cool... 68 degrees summer and winter and sometimes lower than that to rid the house of humidity. I have no problem cooling the house, even with 100 degree days like we are having. My bill for 2,600 so ft of house is 160 per month. It pays to do it right.
That's a nice setup. Foam is the way to go. I also have foam sprayed in 6 inch walls. I use two geothermal units.One upstairs and one downstairs. The house is about 4800 sq. ft., and about 30% glass (windows and doors) My bills are similar per sq. ft. . Unfortunely my house faces west. Big mistake.
 
So you're married to my wife it appears:) TG you guys mentioned this. My wife and I do this song and dance daily. She goes outside and plays with the grandkids, gets menopausal, comes in, then says it's hot in here and runs the temp down 3 degrees. Today, for example, it's around 92, upstairs ac is set to 75 but temp reading 76. She tells me that "you've got it too hot in here." Turned it to 72 and 5 minutes later complained "it's still hot."

I have tried to explain to my wife that if the unit is on it is cooling as much as it can doesn't matter if therm is set 5 degrees below current temp or 20. I have been married for 25 yrs. We have this talk every yr, lol :rolleyes:
 
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Not sure what you mean, but there are three types of heat pumps and none operate as a regular AC unit. Heat pumps move hot air from one place to the other. Regular AC units use freon, a chemical that boils at room temperature, to remove heat from the air. If your heat pump is nothing but an AC unit, please tell me why a heat pump is more effienciet cooling device than an AC unit. Talk about mis informed?
Technically there are 3, but I haven't seen anything in the thread discussing water or geothermal. Maybe I missed it. All the discussion is about air source. In General, heat pumps and A/C units use feon to move heated air from the one set of coils to another. No difference whatsoever. As said, the Heat pump simply has a reversing valve to change where the heat is absorbed from. In cooling mode, it's absorbed from the indoor coils and released from the outdoor coils. In heat mode, the reversing valve changes the flow so that heat is absorbed from the outdoor coils and released from the indoor coils. Also, and generally but not exclusively, because of the heat pumps requirement to heat, requiring heavier energy usage, heat pumps have additional energy saving design features, such as variable or multispeed fans, multiple stage compressors, etc. that you usually don't see in A/C only units.
 
Not sure what you mean, but there are three types of heat pumps and none operate as a regular AC unit. Heat pumps move hot air from one place to the other. Regular AC units use freon, a chemical that boils at room temperature, to remove heat from the air. If your heat pump is nothing but an AC unit, please tell me why a heat pump is more effienciet cooling device than an AC unit. Talk about mis informed?
A heat pump is a more efficient method of heating, not cooling. It is EXACTLY like an air conditioner when cooling. You are becoming informed if you are reading this thread.
 
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As was stated a heat pump is an a/c with a reversing valve that reverses the flow of refrigerant there by reversing the hot and cold coils. A geothermal unit is a heat pump that uses an open or closed loop to circulate ground temperature fluid through a coil. With a geothermal unit there is no outdoor ambient temperature to deal with.
 
“I bought a good conditioner,” I thought at that time. Then I had to face different problems with it. It all started when I started to notice an awful smell when I was turning it on. Then I saw that the temperature in my room wasn’t getting lower, and all this with the horrible smell was bothering me a lot. I called a good specialist that guided me on how to fix the problem. He said I have to buy a chemical wash https://www.airconservicingsingapore.com/chemical-wash/ because the problem was because of the filters.
 
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I love my wife, but physics is not her bag. When we get in the car in the summertime, she turns the thermostat as low as it goes. I have told her a thousand times, if you want the car to be 70 degrees, all you have to do is set it at 70. If you set it at 60, it won't get to 70 any faster. She pays me no attention and does it anyway.
That’s not entirely true and it probably depends on the car. My truck increases the fan rate and lowers the temp of the air the greater the change in temp between what you want and what it is. As it approaches the desired temp it increases the temp of air and lowers the fan speed.
Also as a side note I wouldn’t survive in some of y’all’s houses. We keep the thermostat on 68 year round.
 
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Kind of a strange question. The energy efficient ratings are not going to prevent your home from cooling faster. It depends on a massive amount of variables.
  1. Is the AC acceptable for the square footage of your house?
  2. Is your home bleeding your cooler air? (Winterize/Summerize)?
  3. Are there any blockages from your pump? New/newish fliters?
  4. Are their any perofrmance problems with your pump?
  5. Any leaks with the air transit?
  6. No problem with the ac coils?
72 on a 100 degree day is pushing it but shouldn't be a big deal.
I had to replace one of my acs a few months ago and I have it set at 75 during the day.
If we have company on Saturday I'll set it to 71-72 and it will only take 1-2 hours to get there on a 95-98 day.

If you are dealing with a new AC and you don't have a problem with 1-5...
Either you chose or was given a really crappy AC

Trustworthy home technicians are EXTREMELY hard to come by. Unless you have history with this company, they are trying to talk themselves out of more work.
You don't size heating and air equipment on square footage. For a accurate sizing, you must do a heat gain, heat loss on the structure which takes every factor in the house for the sizing including people, appliances, direction of the house, amount of windows and glass area, even type of doors, volume of conditioned air, location and type of duct work, leakage of duct work, correct air changes of equipment, using weather data for the geographic location. Most equipment is sized for a 95 outside, 75 inside degree day. If you size equipment too big for most weather it will not cycle correctly and remove enough moisture. If you want a lower inside set, you must have the equipment and ducting to do that job or else you will have continued run time. So be careful when someone sticks their thumb up and tells you what size by asking you what square footage the home is. A correct duct job is worth the money, making smooth runs that carry the correct air volume that is not crimped and too long and that is sealed correctly will pay dividends.
 
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You don't size heating and air equipment on square footage. For a accurate sizing, you must do a heat gain, heat loss on the structure which takes every factor in the house for the sizing including people, appliances, direction of the house, amount of windows and glass area, even type of doors, volume of conditioned air, location and type of duct work, leakage of duct work, correct air changes of equipment, using weather data for the geographic location. Most equipment is sized for a 95 outside, 75 inside degree day. If you size equipment too big for most weather it will not cycle correctly and remove enough moisture. If you want a lower inside set, you must have the equipment and ducting to do that job or else you will have continued run time. So be careful when someone sticks their thumb up and tells you what size by asking you what square footage the home is. A correct duct job is worth the money, making smooth runs that carry the correct air volume that is not crimped and too long and that is sealed correctly will pay dividends.
I just found this out. Had some moisture issues under the house due to old duct work getting condensation. Just redid all the duct work and dang it at the difference it has made.
 
The Mall probably has 100 ton package rooftop units with just enough SA ductwork to distribute the air. RA ductwork often is not necessary.
I interviewed with Mammoth AC, that’s who made the AC units for the common areas in the Mall of America. During the interview, we walked around inside one of the AC units to give you an idea of the size of it. I can’t remember how they ran the ductwork, but the most amazing thing was that there is no heater installed in the mall. It’s heated by sunlight, lights, ovens in the food court, and by the people in there. And it might be 20 below outside.
 
Another point, we are the only remaining industrialized nation in the world that uses ductwork to move air in a residential setting. The Japanese have been using mini splits (inverter compressor technology) for 30 +/- years. The mini split options are getting better every couple months and will soon become the premier choice to heat/cool a houses not the USA. Super efficient and seem to last longer than unitary style units with fewer breakdowns. The prices appear to be higher at first glance but you don't have ductwork to worry with under the house which eliminates the heat gain/loss as described above and eliminates having the wrong static pressure present within the cooling system. Personally, I favor the Daikin brand over the Mitsubishi due to the superior communicating trends within the unit itself. All the other brands follow Daikin and Mitsubishi.
It’s hard to beat a window unit. Cools down 400 sq ft bedroom from 80 to 62 in less than a hour before bedtime. I keep two new ones in the garage ready to shove in the window whenever one pukes. No getting hosed by the hvac guys just good cold worry free a/c!
 
Hello 5 year old thread. Long time no see.
The good news is that nobody answered the original question. I have seen data that a fast temperature pull down is more efficient, so I don’t know if delaying the pull down until ambient drops pays off or not. Seems like you could keep asking for a 1 or 2 degree pull down and fool the system anyway.
 
That’s not entirely true and it probably depends on the car. My truck increases the fan rate and lowers the temp of the air the greater the change in temp between what you want and what it is. As it approaches the desired temp it increases the temp of air and lowers the fan speed.
Also as a side note I wouldn’t survive in some of y’all’s houses. We keep the thermostat on 68 year round.
Increasing the fan speed doesn't make the air it's blowing any colder.
 
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Increasing the fan speed doesn't make the air it's blowing any colder.
No but it does increase the rate at which the car cools down. So to say it won’t get to 70 faster is not true. My truck also sets the air temp to the temp you select in auto. Therefore it would cool down faster on 60 than set on 70
 
No but it does increase the rate at which the car cools down. So to say it won’t get to 70 faster is not true. My truck also sets the air temp to the temp you select in auto. Therefore it would cool down faster on 60 than set on 70
You can't decrease the air temp of hot air by blowing it. It might feel so, but it's just moving.
 
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Another point, we are the only remaining industrialized nation in the world that uses ductwork to move air in a residential setting. The Japanese have been using mini splits (inverter compressor technology) for 30 +/- years. The mini split options are getting better every couple months and will soon become the premier choice to heat/cool a houses not the USA. Super efficient and seem to last longer than unitary style units with fewer breakdowns. The prices appear to be higher at first glance but you don't have ductwork to worry with under the house which eliminates the heat gain/loss as described above and eliminates having the wrong static pressure present within the cooling system. Personally, I favor the Daikin brand over the Mitsubishi due to the superior communicating trends within the unit itself. All the other brands follow Daikin and Mitsubishi.

I am sure this is different depending on where in the country you live, but the HVAC company I use here in New Englands says over 90% of their new installations are mini splits.
 
These are the best if wifey does not mind the unit mounted on wall. Daikin brand is the best on these units.
There are some pretty good ceiling cassettes now, as well as decorative ones that look like picture frames. They don't all look like bumpers hanging on the wall! And, we are using the Daikan/Goodman units in houses we are building in the Bahamas. Good product.
 
That's a nice setup. Foam is the way to go. I also have foam sprayed in 6 inch walls. I use two geothermal units.One upstairs and one downstairs. The house is about 4800 sq. ft., and about 30% glass (windows and doors) My bills are similar per sq. ft. . Unfortunely my house faces west. Big mistake.
That's all good until you need to get something up or down the inside of the walls.
 
You can't decrease the air temp of hot air by blowing it. It might feel so, but it's just moving.
Bs, true a fan in a room does not decrease the temperature but increasing or decreasing the amount of hot or cold air that comes out the vent most certainly does. Which is what a “fan” in a car does.
 
Bs, true a fan in a room does not decrease the temperature but increasing or decreasing the amount of hot or cold air that comes out the vent most certainly does. Which is what a “fan” in a car does.
Boom, the fan in the car is not causing the air temp differential in the vent. The fan ”moving“ the air across the cold coil is what changes the temp.
 
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Bs, true a fan in a room does not decrease the temperature but increasing or decreasing the amount of hot or cold air that comes out the vent most certainly does. Which is what a “fan” in a car does.
It's the same principle. The fan doesn't know if it's on your ceiling or in your car dash. The cold air is not produced by the fan. It's produced by the evaporator. The fan can only blow it. In fact, the cold air will be denser at the vent if the fan is on lower speed. None of this matters when the AC circuit is up to operating pressure because there is an ample supply of cold air at the evaporator. But running a fan doesn't get it to that point quicker. Look at this diagram. The Freon doesn't move faster when you speed the fan up. It doesn't even know.
 
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that, with the new energy efficient ratings, when for example, you set the thermostat at, say 75, and then in the middle of a 100 degree + day you set it down to, say 72, the units today are not designed to pull down 3 degrees or more until evening or when it cools off later - 8PM or so. Can anybody confirm this? Just asking.
I didn't bother to read the other responses but I can confirm what they told you. I built two houses and neither of them would have been able to pull the temp down in your scenario. I was told that modern units are designed to run a large percentage of the time when it's hot and maintain the temp but they're not built for recovery. I now own an older home with about 1600 sq ft with an almost new 4 ton unit and it takes it a while to bring down the temps when we come home from a vacation in the middle of a hot summer day. It does better than either of my two other homes because of the size of the unit compared to the sq footage but it's still kinda slow.
 
Wow, this thread is from way back! I posted some good stuff back then. The misinformation others shared in this thread is comically insane.

I’m an hvac engineer and own my own consulting and design engineering service. If anyone is building a new home I can consult and design your system. I also do commercial design services. Likewise if you’re in need of energy consulting or having issues with moisture mold humidity or temperature control in your home or building give me a call or email me. I offer consulting services in the midlands of sc here where on site is needed. For new construction and Reno work where plans are available, I do work all over the US and territory islands.
803-216-1959. Michael.Rhodes@relativeheatingandair.com.
 
American Standard makes a good unit. Good choice!
I just replaced a 24 year old American Standard unit that was installed when we had our house built and never gave any real problems. The only real reason for replacing was because the air handler was about rusted out. The unit was actually still running good, just not efficiently because of the air handler condition. Long story short, I had another AS unit installed and the HVAC guy/dealer gave me a guarantee. The new one won't last near as long as the old one. 🤣
 
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I put in a brand new unit in February for my lake house. It is a two ton unit and cools 1,500 sf. I can confirm that one set, it is very difficult to get below the targeted temp, on a hot day, until the evening.
1500 sq ft? My ac guy said it's borderline between a 2 ton and a 2.5 ton system.
 
1500 sq ft? My ac guy said it's borderline between a 2 ton and a 2.5 ton system.
Have to do a heat gain, loss analysis for actual load. Some contractors refuse to do this and use an old 600 sq. ft. per ton rule of thumb that has no science to it.
 
Have to do a heat gain, loss analysis for actual load. Some contractors refuse to do this and use an old 600 sq. ft. per ton rule of thumb that has no science to it.
Correct and most municipalities now require a heat load manual J type to get a permit, assuming people r up and up still
 
No but it does increase the rate at which the car cools down. So to say it won’t get to 70 faster is not true. My truck also sets the air temp to the temp you select in auto. Therefore it would cool down faster on 60 than set on 70
There is a difference in the way the system operates when its set to AUTO and when you set it manually. In manual, there is no variability in the fan speed. Obviously, it cools the quickest when it is set to MAX, when the cooling element and the fan are both running at their peak.
 
Thank you coxman,
That kind of misinformation drives me up the wall. I was about to respond and saw you beat me too it.

Most of what has been said here is correct. However a few adders.


First, the design temp for the midlands SC is 96/76. That's not 96 outside 76 inside. Thats 96 outside dry-bulb, 76 outside wet-bulb. (Wet bulb is a measure of the humidity level spoken in terms of degrees instead of %. Normally the temp difference a properly sized unit can hold inside to outside is around 24 degrees. basically what was stated here.

the 3 degrees per airchange is not a value I've heard but it seems possibly within reason.

I do know that when air pulls through the unit it can usually drop the air temp around 23-24 degrees. So, say your stat i set to 75, and the unit is on so the room is not currently satisfied, so lets say its 76. Well, air is being returned to the unit, maybe from a high place in the room, at 77 degrees. It gains heat as it moves down the duct towards the unit, so it reaches the unit at 78-79 degrees. That air should discharge at between 53-56 degrees. Hence the 23-25 degree drop. If the unit is producing 53-56 degree air right at the registers then the unit is doing all it can do.

If it is doing that and the room is running 80, then the house is leaking in too much heat, or the unit is undersized.
If the air at the register discharges are at 60+ then the unit is not performing well.
(Disclaimer, if you just returned from vacation and your house is 85 inside, and its producing 60 degree discharge air, that is GOOD, cause again DX equipment can only drop he air about 23-25 degrees. I mean, if its mid 70s inside and you're seeing 60+ at the supply register, that could be a problem.)

If you're seeing 58-ish air, well that's borderline and could mean the unit isn't quite charged right, or it could mean a dirty coil either inside or outside, OR it could mean your supply ducts are seeing notable heat gain between where the air leaves the unit and when it reaches the supply register.

Note, if your discharge air is too warm, then its not removing enough moisture from the air, and that'll cause your room to feel warmer at 75F then if the air was drier at 77 degrees.

Everything said about sizing too big a unit is true. It will cause the compressor to short cycle, the refrigerant can slug and shorten equipment life.

ALSO, While I'm standing on the soap box, NEVER use those stupid expensive filtrete filters. I HATE those things and the BS marketing behind them. Those things will kill an AC unit. Look up the pressure drops of your filters online.

The average ENTIRE residential AC unit can handle only about 1.5" of total static pressure drop from the fan motor. The Coil and box of the unit account for around 0.6". Your entire supply duct system accounts for about 0.5", and your return duct system accounts for about 0.2". That leaves just 0.2" for your air filter and ultimately your dirty air filter.

A basic clean blue mesh air filter has about 0.05" drop when its clean. When dirty, about 0.2". So, when that filter is dirty, it is MAXING out your fan.

Those expensive filtretes are about 0.25" CLEAN, and about 0.5" dirty. So, the moment you install it your unit fan is working too hard and burning the motor. As it gets dirty it gets worse. It also slows down the amount of air crossing the coil, which causes the refrigerant thats moving back to the compressor to be "too cold" compared to how it should be. This means some of it is still in a liquid state vs a gas state. This causes compressing slugging. (like slamming your fist into water, (it hurts) and will eat up your compressor.

DON'T do it, you've been warned!

Lastly, for anyone interested, you can measure wet bulb temp by taking a papertowel, soaking it in water, wring it till just drier than dripping, wrap it around the mercury end of a thermometer, and see what the temp reads. As the moisture evaporates, it'll hold the heat temp down on the mercury and give you an accurate wet bulb temp. Note: Charleston has a lower drybulb design temp at 94. but a higher wet bulb design temp at like 78-79, because of the higher humidity on the coast, than here in Columbia.

Oh, ONE MORE thought. Be careful misting your outdoor condensers. Those things were not designed to run in a wet environment. Even your city water supply has chlorine and lime stone and other corrosives that you're just spraying right on your coil fins and they will corrode it faster. No question a unit installed near a water body (coastal town) will rust before a unit in a dry area, and thats the reason. Everything is corrosive and rusts to some degree but moisture is a solvent and accelerates that process.
Furthermore, again by dropping cold water right on a coil, it again permits the possibility to slug the compressor which is unhealthy as stated above. A big tree above an outdoor unit will allow it to run in share so it takes on less heat, but yet allows it to vent its heat away fairly easily. Never build a structure close to or above the unit because it needs to be able to blow the heat away from it so more "cooler" air can come in to take more heat from those coils.

FINALLY LAST, YES A heatpump running in the summer months is EXACTLY the same function process and equipment as an airconditioner that has a gas furnace for heat. The only difference is a heatpump has a reversing valve that switches modes for winter and instead of pumping heat out of your house, it tries to pump heat into your house from the cold winter air outside. DONE!!
This is great information. Are you an HVAC contractor?

I have a tri-level house built in the 70s. I've insulated the attic but I can't do anything with the walls unless I remove sheet rock. We cannot keep the upstairs bedrooms cool in the summer. There is about a 6-8 degree differential. I'm thinking about a mini-split system with 3 ceiling cassettes.

The existing main unit is 4 tons but it is old and leaking. It just can't pump the air upstairs. The lower level and main level stay just right. I have talked to several contractors none of whom are willing to to do a load calculation. All 3 claim it is not necessary. I don't want to oversize the house by adding more conditioning and cause short cycling.

I just can't stand the thought of calling contractor after contractor who will not do this correctly.
 
This is great information. Are you an HVAC contractor?

I have a tri-level house built in the 70s. I've insulated the attic but I can't do anything with the walls unless I remove sheet rock. We cannot keep the upstairs bedrooms cool in the summer. There is about a 6-8 degree differential. I'm thinking about a mini-split system with 3 ceiling cassettes.

The existing main unit is 4 tons but it is old and leaking. It just can't pump the air upstairs. The lower level and main level stay just right. I have talked to several contractors none of whom are willing to to do a load calculation. All 3 claim it is not necessary. I don't want to oversize the house by adding more conditioning and cause short cycling.

I just can't stand the thought of calling contractor after contractor who will not do this correctly.
If they have a good program to load it, it should not be terrible to do. You have to do an in-depth audit to get all the glass, the wall, the volume, duct situation, people situation, appliance load is usually a standard unless you have more than usual, insulation levels and orientation of the home. Of course the bigger it is, the harder it is to do. To use two systems you would probably have to seal off the duct going upstairs and resize the duct and unit downstairs because the downstairs unit would become oversized now. Just ask the contractor if they utilize manual J sizing. Their old rule of thumb will get you into big trouble as far as comfort, efficiency and workability.
 
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I keep my AC on 76 during the day. I might chill it down a bit after 5:00. However, I usually shut it down at bedtime and open some doors and windows. It usually drops a hair below 76. I close it back off at daybreak.

Granted, I am single and have a small window unit in my "master suite" that can jack it down pretty coll and pretty quick.

My best friends wear thick pajamas and use blankets in the summer time. (they like t-shirts in the Winter - WTF?) I wear boxers and use sheets at my house in summertime. I pay an average $150.00/mo in the Summer. My friends pay an average of $500.00
I am glad we put extra insulation and a more expensive unit in when we built our house. We keep it between 67 and 72 in the summer. 72 in the day 67 at night, 4300 house and electric bill averages 220 a month. Half what it was in old house that was 11 years old
 
I am glad we put extra insulation and a more expensive unit in when we built our house. We keep it between 67 and 72 in the summer. 72 in the day 67 at night, 4300 house and electric bill averages 220 a month. Half what it was in old house that was 11 years old
My hose is is 81 years old.
 
If they have a good program to load it, it should not be terrible to do. You have to do an in-depth audit to get all the glass, the wall, the volume, duct situation, people situation, appliance load is usually a standard unless you have more than usual, insulation levels and orientation of the home. Of course the bigger it is, the harder it is to do. To use two systems you would probably have to seal off the duct going upstairs and resize the duct and unit downstairs because the downstairs unit would become oversized now. Just ask the contractor if they utilize manual J sizing. Their old rule of thumb will get you into big trouble as far as comfort, efficiency and workability.
Third HVAC guy came in yesterday and did an estimate for an upstairs unit. $14,000 for a 15 SEER Trane, 2 ton unit. He he would NOT do a Manual J calculation. When I pressed him he said, I'll do it for $1200, but I just use the rule of thumb - 1 ton per 600 sq. feet. The upstairs is 900 square feet. When I asked him about his rule of thumb he said, "I'd rather oversize than undersize."

All 3 have refused to install a mini split with 3 blowers/cassettes. Last guy said that would cost me $2,000 more than installing a regular heat pump in the attic, and the result will not be as good. The problem is that we use the attic for storage, and with an attic installation we would lose the storage. Plus, the rafters are not insulated so it gets hot up there. When I asked if I should have someone blow foam insulation into the underside of the roof in the attic he said, "yeah, that will help the unit." That will be another $2,000.

My estimates for a heat pump in the attic start at $10,000 and go up to $15,000. That seems like a big range.
 
Third HVAC guy came in yesterday and did an estimate for an upstairs unit. $14,000 for a 15 SEER Trane, 2 ton unit. He he would NOT do a Manual J calculation. When I pressed him he said, I'll do it for $1200, but I just use the rule of thumb - 1 ton per 600 sq. feet. The upstairs is 900 square feet. When I asked him about his rule of thumb he said, "I'd rather oversize than undersize."

All 3 have refused to install a mini split with 3 blowers/cassettes. Last guy said that would cost me $2,000 more than installing a regular heat pump in the attic, and the result will not be as good. The problem is that we use the attic for storage, and with an attic installation we would lose the storage. Plus, the rafters are not insulated so it gets hot up there. When I asked if I should have someone blow foam insulation into the underside of the roof in the attic he said, "yeah, that will help the unit." That will be another $2,000.

My estimates for a heat pump in the attic start at $10,000 and go up to $15,000. That seems like a big range.
Hi,
Where are you located? What you’re asking is not way out of line. I am not a contractor. I’m an hvac design engineer. I do residential and commercial load calcs duct design, ventilation, fresh air makeup, exhaust systems, etc all over the country. For local projects I can come out for a site visit and collect all the data and create the load and design, select equipment, and then you can have that design bid. I know a couple contractors I would recommend for the work but I don’t price their work. I just avoid the folks that use grandpas thumb to size equipment. I think you may be on the right path with separating the up and downstairs. Without seeing the home it’s hard to say if their pricing is decent.

I typically work for other contractors on a design for their project or directly for builders who want a good design before they involve an hvac company. I do sometimes work for home owners in your situation who need help and can’t find good support out there.
I’m happy to talk and see if I can help. I’m the owner so I’m pretty much able to do as I wish. :).

give me a call or email this week. 803-216-1959. Michael.rhodes@relativeheatingandair.com
 
I used to do lots of load calcs on new and older homes. Once you get the data and a good program, some are difficult, others are some what easy. It's amazing the difference a South facing home can make or a super insulated one. The equipment selection always got into sensible and latent loads plus the correct air distribution. I wish you well in your work and getting the truth out. I can't believe these contractors still use that 50 year old thumb method.
 
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