OT: College Tuition Cost

[DeeDave]

An acquaintance of mine from years ago dropped out of A. L. Brown High School in the 10th grade and became a multi-millionaire, not by luck but by skill and acquired on-the-job knowledge. If you have a special skill, hone it, and you can make it. Without college. College ain’t what it use to be. Just look at some of the stuff they offer now and you will see it is ridiculous and worthless.

Yes, there are always very rare situations where someone drops out and becomes a multi- millionaire. Sadly, there are many, many more people that drop out or think a high school education is all they will ever need and end up never making more than 60 or 70K in a year in their entire lives.

I went to college and retired over almost 10 years ago. But I wouldn't have been able to do that without college because of what I learned, but also my connections with the university.

One good lesson for young people: Don't put all your eggs in one basket thinking that you are the exception to the rule. Have a plan, but also have a backup plan just in case you aren't the exception you think you are when you are 17 years old.

Now, I am off and cruising the lake today. Later on.

 

[cocks rule]

I haven't met an employer yet that thought "College is a scam and a total waste of money"

I've met angry individuals that felt that way because of some personal issues they have in their own lives, but I've never had a business tell me they felt that way.

For example, last week I was in Aiken and met with a manufacturing company. I was fortunate enough to meet with their engineering department and sit in on a meeting. The owner gave a presentation and part of his talk was employee turnover and hiring challenges but he didn't mention college was a scam. LOL

That would have been an odd thing to say given the numerous college graduates in the engineering dept, machine shop, and his electrical technician operation.

Plus, college was a TON of fun. I'm not talking about partying. Heck, I don't even drink alcohol. I am talking about just the pure fun of it overall and all that goes into it.

Listen if you like wasting what time you have on this earth taking courses that have nothing to do with your field but are “required” by universities to get a piece of paper that has no effect on your skill level you go right ahead. That’s your choice but a lot of people realize these schools are there for one reason and one reason only. Making money and their bottom line.

As far as fun goes many of us didn’t need a school to organize fun for us. If we did want to party at a school and pick up a few coeds we did that too and didn’t spend a dime doing it. It’s called freedom. Something that doesn’t exist at most universities. Lol

 

[cocks rule]

You would have failed a statistics exam- and a college logic class - with that effort.

statistics reveal that commercial airplanes almost never crash. There is no statistic that reveals that commercial airplanes almost always crash.

so it's untrue that you can find a statistic that proves whatever you want

2996 or 22,996 people dying in 4 crashes in one day doesn't disprove the statistic that commercial airplanes almost never crash.

They did on that day my friend. Sorry

 

[cocks rule]

They did on that day my friend. Sorry

A college logic class. Now that’s funny. Lmao
I don’t know how I’ve survived without taking that class. Thanks for proving my point

 

[DeeDave]

They did on that day my friend. Sorry

No- 4 plane crashes in one day doesn't prove that commercial planes almost always crash.

10 plane crashed in one day wouldn't prove it either. This is not difficult.

 

[DeeDave]

A college logic class. Now that’s funny. Lmao
I don’t know how I’ve survived without taking that class. Thanks for proving my point

I am not sure you did if your posts are any indication. LOL

 

[cocks rule]

You would have failed a statistics exam- and a college logic class - with that effort.

statistics reveal that commercial airplanes almost never crash. There is no statistic that reveals that commercial airplanes almost always crash.

so it's untrue that you can find a statistic that proves whatever you want

2996 or 22,996 people dying in 4 crashes in one day doesn't disprove the statistic that commercial airplanes almost never crash.

Btw I’m very dissatisfied that with all your education you would ever use a term such as “almost never” I’m afraid I would have to ask for a refund because they failed you miserably. Tech schools should use this in their ads on why Tech schools are superior to privileged Universities. That’s a slam dunk. 😂

 

[cocks rule]

I am not sure you did if your posts are any indication. LOL

Hey! You must have failed inclusion 101 attacking me like that. Go back to freshman year and start over. Lol

 

[DeeDave]

Listen if you like wasting what time you have on this earth taking courses that have nothing to do with your field but are “required” by universities to get a piece of paper that has no effect on your skill level you go right ahead. That’s your choice but a lot of people realize these schools are there for one reason and one reason only. Making money and their bottom line.

That's too simplistic.

A 4 year degree was never designed to be earned by taking courses that are exclusive to what your area of study happens to me.

For example, my college senior is a computer science major. But one of his classes was Japanese. It was one of his favorites. He didn't have to take that class, but a computer science major taking Japanese has already proved valuable in the summer internship this summer.

a 4 year degree is designed to provide the person who earns it a comprehensive education.


Now, my son's best friend just received his Associates Degree. He focused on electronics. But he also took English classes, and other electives which makes sense because he's not a robot.

As far as fun goes many of us didn’t need a school to organize fun for us. If we did want to party at a school and pick up a few coeds we did that too and didn’t spend a dime doing it. It’s called freedom. Something that doesn’t exist at most universities. Lol

I didn't need school to "organize fun." You seem to just make up things.

I spent my free time in college playing intramural sports on various teams, and spent tons of time with one of the religious organizations on campus. It was a blast.

Sorry you missed out.

 

[DeeDave]

Btw I’m very dissatisfied that with all your education you would ever use a term such as “almost never” I’m afraid I would have to ask for a refund because they failed you miserably. Tech schools should use this in their ads on why Tech schools are superior to privileged Universities. That’s a slam dunk. 😂

No, that's a perfect term when I am talking to someone that doesn't understand statistics.

 

[cocks rule]

That's too simplistic.

A 4 year degree was never designed to be earned by taking courses that are exclusive to what your area of study happens to me.

For example, my college senior is a computer science major. But one of his classes was Japanese. It was one of his favorites. He didn't have to take that class, but a computer science major taking Japanese has already proved valuable in the summer internship this summer.

a 4 year degree is designed to provide the person who earns it a comprehensive education.


Now, my son's best friend just received his Associates Degree. He focused on electronics. But he also took English classes, and other electives which makes sense because he's not a robot.



I didn't need school to "organize fun." You seem to just make up things.

I spent my free time in college playing intramural sports on various teams, and spent tons of time with one of the religious organizations on campus. It was a blast.

Sorry you missed out.

I “almost never” miss out. Lmao

 

[DeeDave]

Another bubble primed to blow soon. You can get an equal or better education online without the "enlightened" spin of reality via the Ivory Tower Club.

Back to your post though

I don't agree that an online education is as good but as someone that got a Masters through an online program, I can say it's for sure a worthy option for certain people and those in certain jobs.

I feel feel I missed out somewhat in my Masters program by not being in a class and engaging in class discussions face to face with my teachers and classmates.

I would not want to get my 2 year or 4 year degree online. I enjoyed the college experience way too much to want to miss it by being online. However, it can serve its role for many people.

My college freshman is taking 2 classes in person, and 3 online to start. Many schools are offering hybrids now.

 

[cocks rule]

No, that's a perfect term when I am talking to someone that doesn't understand statistics.

You are “almost never” right. Hey! Thanks for this ridiculous, non scientific term you were taught in college. That’s worth the price of admission and again I got it for free in 5 minutes just messing with you.

 

[cocks rule]

Back to your post though

I don't agree that an online education is as good but as someone that got a Masters through an online program, I can say it's for sure a worthy option for certain people and those in certain jobs.

I feel feel I missed out somewhat in my Masters program by not being in a class and engaging in class discussions face to face with my teachers and classmates.

I would not want to get my 2 year or 4 year degree online. I enjoyed the college experience way too much to want to miss it by being online. However, it can serve its role for many people.

My college freshman is taking 2 classes in person, and 3 online to start. Many schools are offering hybrids now.

YouTube is free and teaches you “almost anything” you would ever want to learn. Hey! I just invented another almostism for you. No charge it’s on me. The least I can do for my best buddy “almost never”

 

[DeeDave]

YouTube is free and teaches you “almost anything” you would ever want to learn. Hey! I just invented another almostism for you. No charge it’s on me. The least I can do for my best buddy “almost never”

Yes, I watch some things on Youtube but professional certifications don't accept "youtube video watching" for credit.

and video watching doesn't lend itself to verifying accuracy or proof of learning the subject matter.

LOL

 

[cocks rule]

Yes, I watch some things on Youtube but professional certifications don't accept "youtube video watching" for credit.

and video watching doesn't lend itself to verifying accuracy or proof of learning the subject matter.

LOL

I love the fact that you need approval so much. The one thing you can’t learn is confidence. Seekers of approval are “almost always” devoid of this. Sad but true.

BTW. Did you get your masters in “almost never” or just the basic “almost whatever”

 

[DeeDave]

Trade schools actually give you a skill for your hard earned money. The college experience can be very damaging to many people not to mention bury you in debt for decades to come.

Trade schools such as tech schools are colleges. They award college degrees.

Many also have campuses and provide a college experience with various clubs and organizations, etc...

Four year colleges also "give" you a skill. However, I wouldn't describe it the way you did. Colleges provide the opportunity for the student to learn a skill.

 

[DeeDave]

I love the fact that you need approval so much. The one thing you can’t learn is confidence. Seekers of approval are “almost always” devoid of this. Sad but true.

BTW. Did you get your masters in “almost never” or just the basic “almost whatever”

It's not a matter of my confidence.

Professional certifications provide "confidence" for the organization/business the certification or degree holder provides a specific service to during the course of work.

Numerous professional certifications require college degrees.

For example, the need and requirement for a professional engineer to sign off on an engineering design.

They don't care how many YouTube videos you watched. LOL

 

[cocks rule]

Trade schools such as tech schools are colleges. They award college degrees.

Many also have campuses and provide a college experience with various clubs and organizations, etc...

Four year colleges also "give" you a skill. However, I wouldn't describe it the way you did. Colleges provide the opportunity for the student to learn a skill.

High schools have vocational schools that provide the opportunity to learn a skill. 12 years is too long to go to school without achieving a valuable skill that’ll carry you through life. However some people go to school for 16-18 years of their life just to use terms like “almost never”. These people would’ve had a tough time in vocational schools, Tech schools etc…

 

[cocks rule]

It's not a matter of my confidence.

Professional certifications provide "confidence" for the organization/business the certification or degree holder provides a specific service to during the course of work.

Numerous professional certifications require college degrees.

For example, the need and requirement for a professional engineer to sign off on an engineering design.

They don't care how many YouTube videos you watched. LOL

And the government officials that sign off on said designs are interested in the cash payoff not the design or certificate the engineer has. It’s called corruption and it’s “almost always” the deciding factor. Not the safety or quality of the design. You’d know this if you mastered in reality with a minor in common sense.

 

[cocks rule]

It's not a matter of my confidence.

Professional certifications provide "confidence" for the organization/business the certification or degree holder provides a specific service to during the course of work.

Numerous professional certifications require college degrees.

For example, the need and requirement for a professional engineer to sign off on an engineering design.

They don't care how many YouTube videos you watched. LOL

I have two sons. Youngest went to USC graduated with engineering degree. The other dropped out of high school in the 11th grade got his ged and went to work at a manufacturing plant at 18. Took a supervisor job at 20. He started a small business during this time which he grew until 28 when he retired. My youngest suffered the usual problems colleges pose to our young people. He got a good job out of USC but lost “almost all” of his common and financial sense. He’s in debt now instead of being financially independent and free. We’re all working on him now but it’s tough to undo the damage that I paid over 100k for him to get. This was my fault for not doing my due diligence but we all make mistakes.

 

[DeeDave]

I have two sons. Youngest went to USC graduated with engineering degree. The other dropped out of high school in the 11th grade got his ged and went to work at a manufacturing plant at 18. Took a supervisor job at 20. He started a small business during this time which he grew until 28 when he retired. My youngest suffered the usual problems colleges pose to our young people. He got a good job out of USC but lost “almost all” of his common and financial sense. He’s in debt now instead of being financially independent and free. We’re all working on him now but it’s tough to undo the damage that I paid over 100k for him to get. This was my fault for not doing my due diligence but we all make mistakes.

That stinks.

Engineers are in very high demand, especially in the Charleston and Greenville area of South Carolina. If you have your PE, you can make even bigger bucks.

My son is 21 and a senior this coming school year in computer science. A tech company in North Carolina has advised him they will hire him upon completion of his degree. He's did work for them this summer and they paid him quite nicely. He lucked into a contact there and so far they've done everything they promised- including telling him they will let him work some in the school year remotely. (I've told him to be careful of this so it doesn't sidetrack his school work).

He doesn't know what the starting salary will be but they have one other employee that does what my son would be doing and he's been advised that he should start in the $75k range. I am very proud of that since he will have virtually no debt. I wish I would have started out anywhere near that right out of college. They have also said they will pay him to get some professional certifications which will also help his career.

 

[DeeDave]

And the government officials that sign off on said designs are interested in the cash payoff not the design or certificate the engineer has. It’s called corruption and it’s “almost always” the deciding factor. Not the safety or quality of the design. You’d know this if you mastered in reality with a minor in common sense.

I wasn't talking really even talking about government officials. But that can be an issue. But it's not corruption. It's a matter of liability.

Many businesses and organizations require or prefer a PE. Insurance requirements also play a factor.

 

[DeeDave]

I have two sons. Youngest went to USC graduated with engineering degree. The other dropped out of high school in the 11th grade got his ged and went to work at a manufacturing plant at 18. Took a supervisor job at 20. He started a small business during this time which he grew until 28 when he retired.

Biggest mistake I ever made was retiring in my early 40s. So I went back to work on my own schedule and on my own terms. Not because of money, but because of the work itself. Heck, I do some of my work at a big discount now to help certain organizations. That was the best decision I made.


What I told my 3 children: Going to college and actually graduating, gives you options that you might not have otherwise.

You still have to do the work. But in most cases, you will have options for a career that you won't have if you don't get your degree- 2 year, 4 year, etc..

My college freshman wants a job like mine where he can work at home and make a good living. So he's following in my footsteps a bit so that he can work at home in his home office one day and do what he needs to do without worrying about a boss or going to an office, etc.

But with his formal education under his belt, he will have more options for himself.

 

[Ward Jr]

Pretty much get all the training you need is online now regardless of the profession. Below are just a few examples. You can get certification from paid online or get the free education and take the proficiency tests that many employers are moving to now. Elon Musk has created his own school as well.

There's been a lot of discussion about relieving all student debt. If they do that, it's almost certain they will move to free education online for everyone and universities would have to adapt quickly or become extinct.

Universities including Med School:
https://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/bachelors/rankings

Free Ivy League:
https://www.classcentral.com/
https://pll.harvard.edu/catalog/free
https://www.moneytalksnews.com/slideshows/ivy-league-colleges-that-offer-free-online-courses/

 

[bill222]

What I told my 3 children: Going to college and actually graduating, gives you options that you might not have otherwise.

Oh, so today you have three children? It is usually three, but in a post on March 3rd you had two. And today your son is the oldest and a senior at USC, but other times your daughter was the oldest at USC. Maybe you should retire for, what, the 43rd time, so you can focus on getting all of your lies in order on this forum.

 

[cocks rule]

That stinks.

Engineers are in very high demand, especially in the Charleston and Greenville area of South Carolina. If you have your PE, you can make even bigger bucks.

My son is 21 and a senior this coming school year in computer science. A tech company in North Carolina has advised him they will hire him upon completion of his degree. He's did work for them this summer and they paid him quite nicely. He lucked into a contact there and so far they've done everything they promised- including telling him they will let him work some in the school year remotely. (I've told him to be careful of this so it doesn't sidetrack his school work).

He doesn't know what the starting salary will be but they have one other employee that does what my son would be doing and he's been advised that he should start in the $75k range. I am very proud of that since he will have virtually no debt. I wish I would have started out anywhere near that right out of college. They have also said they will pay him to get some professional certifications which will also help his career.

Salary isn’t his problem. He’s making plenty of money if he managed it correctly. His problem is buying crap he doesn’t need on credit. Breaking that rule will offset any advantage his engineering degree afforded him. The point I'm making is my oldest son dug in at a very young age educated himself with information not taught in schools. He took this little known information and turned his small business into financial security for life by age 28 where as my youngest son took the easy way by going to school where they teach you things everybody else already knows. He interned, got a great job but using a “budget” from some bs class along the way his mind was obliviously destroyed. He was a very smart kid but the indoctrination process is hard for some to dodge. Most weak people just need any ole type of justification to make unwise decisions.

 

[cocks rule]

Pretty much get all the training you need is online now regardless of the profession. Below are just a few examples. You can get certification from paid online or get the free education and take the proficiency tests that many employers are moving to now. Elon Musk has created his own school as well.

There's been a lot of discussion about relieving all student debt. If they do that, it's almost certain they will move to free education online for everyone and universities would have to adapt quickly or become extinct.

Universities including Med School:
https://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/bachelors/rankings

Free Ivy League:
https://www.classcentral.com/
https://pll.harvard.edu/catalog/free
https://www.moneytalksnews.com/slideshows/ivy-league-colleges-that-offer-free-online-courses/

The college scam is officially over! Well for “almost everybody” lol

These professors are teaching the same tired, old well known crap that you can get from anywhere. No secret ways to advance faster than anyone else and your paying for this useless service not to mention the dark side of college and all the evil crap they’re shoving down your throat. It’s ridiculous.

 

[chief2791]

An acquaintance of mine from years ago dropped out of A. L. Brown High School in the 10th grade and became a multi-millionaire, not by luck but by skill and acquired on-the-job knowledge. If you have a special skill, hone it, and you can make it. Without college. College ain’t what it use to be. Just look at some of the stuff they offer now and you will see it is ridiculous and worthless.

Have an uncle who dropped out in the 8th grade. He's now very wealthy. Sold his company, retired at 51, and planned to golf 5 days a week. Turns out he didn't enjoy golfing with guys that were 20-30 years older than him, he had nothing in common with them, and believe it or not, missed working, competing. Started another very successful company in a totally different field than the first one was, and still goes to the office every day, unless it's hunting season.

He's not book smart, but his common sense and customer/people skills are off the chart. It's amazing the number of people today that have neither.

 

[bill222]

Heck, I don't even drink alcohol.

Oh, another lie in the same thread. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. You say you don't drink, and you've said that multiple times. But when I exposed your lies about your nephews, their age, and the number of them, etc.....hell, there were so many I forget everything you were lying about....but anyway, when you made that convoluted excuse about how your phone auto--corrected the words "brother-in-law" to "nephew," you said it also did it while you were in a pool and had had a bit too much too drink But I suppose when you've made thousands of posts, most of them containing at least one lie, you're bound to slip up from time to time.

 

[DeeDave]

where as my youngest son took the easy way by going to school where they teach you things everybody else already knows. He interned, got a great job but using a “budget” from some bs class along the way his mind was obliviously destroyed. He was a very smart kid but the indoctrination process is hard for some to dodge. Most weak people just need any ole type of justification to make unwise decisions.

Too simplistic.

There are other options than your very negative viewpoint.

For example, getting a degree by the age of 22. Working internships for good companies and learning invaluable skills.

Then putting those skills and the degree together for a career of various options.

If you are in a class or degree where they are "teaching you thinking everybody else already knows" then you are doing something way, way wrong.

Not sure what type of "indoctrination" you are speaking about.

Sounds like you are upset that he doesn't see things the way you do. That's not surprising. People see things differently.

Some kids grow up and don't like the indoctrination that their parents instilled in them.

 

[DeeDave]

Have an uncle who dropped out in the 8th grade. He's now very wealthy. Sold his company, retired at 51, and planned to golf 5 days a week. Turns out he didn't enjoy golfing with guys that were 20-30 years older than him, he had nothing in common with them, and believe it or not, missed working, competing. Started another very successful company in a totally different field than the first one was, and still goes to the office every day, unless it's hunting season.

He's not book smart, but his common sense and customer/people skills are off the chart. It's amazing the number of people today that have neither.

Being retired young is not always fun. I did that and didn't like it.

But I will say, I see a lot more people that are well off in great careers with a college education than I do folks like your uncle. They are there, but I don't see as many.

We know what college graduates make compared to those that only have a high school education. That data is clear.

and then there are folks like me that did the college thing, and retired (the first time) when I was 43.

 

[cocks rule]

Too simplistic.

There are other options than your very negative viewpoint.

For example, getting a degree by the age of 22. Working internships for good companies and learning invaluable skills.

Then putting those skills and the degree together for a career of various options.

If you are in a class or degree where they are "teaching you thinking everybody else already knows" then you are doing something way, way wrong.

Not sure what type of "indoctrination" you are speaking about.

Sounds like you are upset that he doesn't see things the way you do. That's not surprising. People see things differently.

Some kids grow up and don't like the indoctrination that their parents instilled in them.

Didn’t like the comparison? Sounds like your cheering on the failures of my youngest son while ignoring the successes of my older son. Very interesting.

 

[cocks rule]

Biggest mistake I ever made was retiring in my early 40s. So I went back to work on my own schedule and on my own terms. Not because of money, but because of the work itself. Heck, I do some of my work at a big discount now to help certain organizations. That was the best decision I made.


What I told my 3 children: Going to college and actually graduating, gives you options that you might not have otherwise.

You still have to do the work. But in most cases, you will have options for a career that you won't have if you don't get your degree- 2 year, 4 year, etc..

My college freshman wants a job like mine where he can work at home and make a good living. So he's following in my footsteps a bit so that he can work at home in his home office one day and do what he needs to do without worrying about a boss or going to an office, etc.

But with his formal education under his belt, he will have more options for himself.

First, A formal education is not required to have unlimited options UNLESS you restrict yourself to being an employee. The most successful people do not work for someone else. Fact

Second, Retiring means you don’t work for anyone. You still run your businesses or dive head first in your hobbies, travel or whatever you love doing just never punching a clock again. Sometimes a job is required to get up and running. But it’s always a means to an end if your so motivated

 

[Ward Jr]

The winner of the "Education Lottery" (the ultimate oxymoron) to receive $433.7 million.

But the big winner is actually the IRS - raking in over $846.3 million.

Thank god once again for the SEC and IRS. Always there to protect and serve.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...-gets-4337-million-after-tax/?sh=7ebd15cd2028

 

[Thirdcatgy]

The winner of the "Education Lottery" (the ultimate oxymoron) to receive $433.7 million.

But the big winner is actually the IRS - raking in over $846.3 million.

Thank god once again for the SEC and IRS. Always there to protect and serve.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...-gets-4337-million-after-tax/?sh=7ebd15cd2028

Ha. I've always wondered how much excess $$$ is paid in above the running total? This last run up was around $1.3 billion but that's probably only a fraction of what they collected. They might posture but seriously doubt there's any transparent accounting whatsoever. A muddy waters game.

 

[ToddFlanders]

The college scam is officially over! Well for “almost everybody” lol

These professors are teaching the same tired, old well known crap that you can get from anywhere. No secret ways to advance faster than anyone else and your paying for this useless service not to mention the dark side of college and all the evil crap they’re shoving down your throat. It’s ridiculous.

Calling college a scam that is over and not needed is the equivalent to saying everyone needs to go to college. Neither is remotely true.

Everyone in the world will always have varying degrees of success in their lifetimes - and sometimes it’s related to education. Most of the time though it’s related to other factors such as socio-economic level growing up, people skills, people’s level of risk they’re willing to accept in their lives, when they choose to marry, who they know, etc.

We do know that people who go to college end up making significantly more on average than those who do not (and that goes up with each new degree). Do all people that go to college make more? Absolutely not. Those are just the averages. Everyone has anecdotal stories - but those aren’t really relevant in proving a point.

 

[bucketdad]

A good portion of the difference in pay is due to the system itself, much at the state level. Many jobs require certification that can only be gotten in college. Based on what I see, that certification often comes with a 20K increase in pay. Right or wrong, I've recently seen non certified individuals perform the same duties as certified ones. The only difference is pay. I've also seen their employers offer to send these individuals to school so they could pay them more. Kinda weird if you ask me but it is what it is. I mean, they can do the job, they just dont have an acknowledgement by the state they can do the job. It's no wonder why a college degree is gonna pay more on average.

 

[cocks rule]

Calling college a scam that is over and not needed is the equivalent to saying everyone needs to go to college. Neither is remotely true.

Everyone in the world will always have varying degrees of success in their lifetimes - and sometimes it’s related to education. Most of the time though it’s related to other factors such as socio-economic level growing up, people skills, people’s level of risk they’re willing to accept in their lives, when they choose to marry, who they know, etc.

We do know that people who go to college end up making significantly more on average than those who do not (and that goes up with each new degree). Do all people that go to college make more? Absolutely not. Those are just the averages. Everyone has anecdotal stories - but those aren’t really relevant in proving a point.

It’s based solely on the individual and their goals. Dr, lawyer, engineer have no choice college is a must. Gender studies majors are coming to party. So on and so forth. Either way it’s to expensive and overused by ppl who have no business being there

 

[DeeDave]

A good portion of the difference in pay is due to the system itself, much at the state level. Many jobs require certification that can only be gotten in college. Based on what I see, that certification often comes with a 20K increase in pay. Right or wrong, I've recently seen non certified individuals perform the same duties as certified ones. The only difference is pay. I've also seen their employers offer to send these individuals to school so they could pay them more. Kinda weird if you ask me but it is what it is. I mean, they can do the job, they just dont have an acknowledgement by the state they can do the job. It's no wonder why a college degree is gonna pay more on average.

Professional certifications are essential in many businesses. Some of those require a college degree. Some don't. But really all of them required training or advanced training.

Many businesses promote the fact that they have employees that have obtained the highest professional certification for their career field. It allows the business to market itself to customers that only want to do business with people that have obtained the professional certification.

I mean it makes sense. If you have someone designing something for you or reviewing something for you that has to be right, do you want someone that has the most advanced training in their field and passed the certification exam, or do you want to hire the person that didn't bother with the training and wouldn't be able to pass the exam if they tried? That's an easy choice for me.

The market and the great majority of businesses made their choice and made it long ago.

That doesn't mean a non certified person can't do the job. It also doesn't mean the certified one will always do the best job. But the company or industry can't market itself as positively as it would like to within their industry.

If you are have a need that has to stand up to legal scrutiny, you are likely going to reach out to the business with the employees that have the professional certifications as opposed to the businesses or individuals that haven't taken the time to earn the top certifications in their field.

It's sort of like our church audit that we pay for each year. We don't let Sue the bookkeeper perform the audit. We have a CPA firm perform the audit and certify that our books are correct. Sue is great and she can do a great job keeping the books. But Sue the bookkeeper's work is not going to hold up as well as a CPA firm reviewing our books and putting their signature and reputation on the line to back us up.