Y’all see that? Miss State punts the ball. 2 different Miss State players touch the ball down. Ref throws down the ball marker and waves the play dead. Memphis player then picks the ball up and returns it as Miss State players seem confused and several were already running off the field. Refs call it a TD and hold it up as a TD. Memphis “wins” by 2. It’s one of the most inexplicable things I’ve ever seen in football.
SEC crew that worked the Miss State/Memphis game need to be fired
- Thread starter sickoftryingtothinkofausername
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Wow I watched the replay and read an explanation.
That is crazy. I guess the ref shouldn't have called it dead so quick but since he did, the TD shouldn't have counted.
That is crazy. I guess the ref shouldn't have called it dead so quick but since he did, the TD shouldn't have counted.
The Miss State players touched the ball down. Once the kicking team touches the ball, it’s a dead ball. Unless the rule has changed, he was right to wave the play dead.
not only that, but Memphis had 2 players wearing #4 on the field at the time, which is a penalty in itself.
I don't know if the whole crew needs to be fired. Whoever was in charge, however, needs to be fire or least demoted. The point of replay is to catch missed calls, which happens. Why didn't he check the replay? Did Leach not call timeout and demand a review?
I was floored...........MSU guy drops down, controls the punt to down it, and ref starts waving his arms and blows it dead. Let's Memphis player pick it up and run for TD.......no player in the world would have thought that was live. And in true SEC ref fashion, they blew the replay also. Teams like us and MSU get totally dogged by the refs all the time. Charlie Brown had better luck with Lucy holding the football. Not sure how to beat that except win anyway. I am not a Mike Leach fan.....but that was a total hose job. I guess you have to beat teams by 14 plus to stop stuff like that from happening.
That ball was downed by MSU....end of story. Ref made the right call to stop the play. You don't have to lay on the ground with the ball for 3 or 4 seconds. How many punts do you see get downed by the player picking it up and tossing it to the ref in like a milisecond. It was a clown show............but the no accountability rule in our country applies to everyone. Sad.
The explanation I read, which could be incorrect btw, stated that the receiving team has the right to pick up the ball and advance it even after it has been downed.
But you are 💯 right about 2 #4s
I'm not disagreeing with you.
I don't think I've ever seen that happen and stand.
Just repeating an explanation I read
CFB would be more entertaining if we were allowed more access to the refs’ calls. For example, force them, as part of their contract, to answer questions after the game.
They also sucked in the PSU/Auburn game. Several terrible calls. Even the announcers were commenting on it.
Next time you down a ball just pick it up and kick it into the stands.
From an officials perspective: The error was in the signal. Otherwise the play could legally proceed as it did. I’ll explain both the rule and the error.
A kicked ball is dead when it is POSSESSED by the kicking team (we call that downed), or when it has come to rest and no one attempts to possess the ball, ie, it just sits there. The bean bag is thrown to mark the location of first touching, (there can be more than one first touching spot because it simply marks a spot where the kicking team touches if it’s needed later), not to mark the “downed” spot. The reason? No matter what happens to the receiving team (for example, fumbling later during the return), the receiving team always can choose to take the ball at the spot of first touching.
Now, getting to this play after the ball was touched and left to sit. There is no rule about how long it has to sit before blowing the play dead as downed. But no one can be making a play on the ball. In this case, the back judge was ready to declare it dead, since he waved his arms (major error). He should have blown his whistle hard at that point. If he is waving his arms, blow the whistle so hard there is no question, and keep blowing it if the play continues.
I mentioned that without the error, the play you saw could certainly be possible. If the ball only sits for a second and a player makes a move on the ball, then no reason he couldn’t pick it up and return it for a TD like he did. It’s a judgement call as to how long it can sit.
The huge error here was on the back judge. Don’t wave your arms without blowing the play dead. I heard someone else say that another official actually blew his whistle. To me, that’s cowardice. If you blow a whistle while the play is still going on, declare an inadvertent whistle on yourself and rule accordingly. There are rules for how to handle it. If you saw the play dead, blow your whistle and stand by it.
So, the “too long did not read” answer, the play was legal as shown if the refs had “let it play”, but should have been stoped immediately on the waving of the arms by the back judge.
Should the refs be canned? Maybe? I don’t fault refs too much for misjudgment on the fly. But I REALLY fault refs for making mistakes in application of the rules. You have time to talk about it in a huddle and decide. There is no excuse for mis-application.
A kicked ball is dead when it is POSSESSED by the kicking team (we call that downed), or when it has come to rest and no one attempts to possess the ball, ie, it just sits there. The bean bag is thrown to mark the location of first touching, (there can be more than one first touching spot because it simply marks a spot where the kicking team touches if it’s needed later), not to mark the “downed” spot. The reason? No matter what happens to the receiving team (for example, fumbling later during the return), the receiving team always can choose to take the ball at the spot of first touching.
Now, getting to this play after the ball was touched and left to sit. There is no rule about how long it has to sit before blowing the play dead as downed. But no one can be making a play on the ball. In this case, the back judge was ready to declare it dead, since he waved his arms (major error). He should have blown his whistle hard at that point. If he is waving his arms, blow the whistle so hard there is no question, and keep blowing it if the play continues.
I mentioned that without the error, the play you saw could certainly be possible. If the ball only sits for a second and a player makes a move on the ball, then no reason he couldn’t pick it up and return it for a TD like he did. It’s a judgement call as to how long it can sit.
The huge error here was on the back judge. Don’t wave your arms without blowing the play dead. I heard someone else say that another official actually blew his whistle. To me, that’s cowardice. If you blow a whistle while the play is still going on, declare an inadvertent whistle on yourself and rule accordingly. There are rules for how to handle it. If you saw the play dead, blow your whistle and stand by it.
So, the “too long did not read” answer, the play was legal as shown if the refs had “let it play”, but should have been stoped immediately on the waving of the arms by the back judge.
Should the refs be canned? Maybe? I don’t fault refs too much for misjudgment on the fly. But I REALLY fault refs for making mistakes in application of the rules. You have time to talk about it in a huddle and decide. There is no excuse for mis-application.
The downed football player had his knee on the ground.
the problem with that is that it is commonly understood that if you’ve got 2-3 guys around a ball, they physically stop the ball from moving, and one of them even has his hand on the ball with his knee on the ground…that’s “possessing” the ball. You don’t have to take the ball home and raise it until it’s 18th birthday to possess it. If it had bounced off one of their heads and rolled down the field, different story, but it didn’t, they did more than enough to indicate that they “possessed” the ball.
the ref blows the whistle to stop the play. But he waves his hand as an indicator to the clock keeper to stop the clock. He wouldn’t be stopping the clock if the play was still considered live.
Sorry to sound like my post was aimed at you. It wasn’t. Aimed at the referees but I don’t think they reader board
Did you watch the play….it was downed by the kicking team physically. That ref may not have blown his whistle very hard…no problem. But he could have easily called the TD back. They do it almost once a game. They could even replay it to get it right.
These explanations remind me of Biden….just say some bs and walk away. The “official” explanation is comical.
But I don’t care for Mike Leach so I am fine with MSU losing
That bunch that went up to Penn State needs to be suspended if not fired as well. They were on the biggest national stage last night and disgraced themselves.
lol, which game did you watch? Refs totally botched 3 big calls in Auburn’s favor. It was so bad even the announcers finally commented on the officiating.
That is not correct. It takes possession, not touching.
I'm not thinking an SEC crew would go out of its way to help Penn State. ESPN said it was an SEC crew. They were just incompetent, including stealing a down from Penn State and forcing them to punt a down early. How does that happen?
lol, yeah, that was insane. And, yeah, an SEC crew was giving a Big 10 school home cooking?
touching the ball to the point of stopping it’s momentum has been enough to be considered “possession” for at least the past 40+ years. And it was enough for the ref too, which is why he waved the play dead.
My point is that: "Once the kicking team touches the ball, it’s a dead ball." is not a correct statement. If they possess the ball, that is different, but that is more than just touching.
Even the replay ref blew that call, it's just beyond comprehension how the replay booth could miss that.
Hopefully South Carolina can use this as a teaching opportunity. My guess is 99.9% of the team (and general population) believe that "touching" the ball is sufficient. imagine someone trying to stop forward progression of a punt at the 1 yard line and the other team picks it up and returns it for a 99 yard TD....
I get your point, and I agree, but in this case the ref waves the play dead. Anyone who has ever played ,was taught play to the whistle. I don't know what else as a coach you can add to that.
I've never understood how the best conference in college football consistently have the worst refs, year after year.
I think it is when the kicking team "downs" the ball as opposed to "touching" ... in viewing the reply, it was clearly downed ... indeed an egregious display by this crew ...
And they're not having the additional luxury of having the video(s) to replay the sequence of downs.
The rules make no reference to "downing" the ball. According to Rule 6, Section 3, Article 2 the kicking team player touching the ball was an illegal touching foul which, in itself, does not cause the ball to go dead. The ball goes dead according to Rule 4, Section 1, Article 3. That states that if a kicking team player catches or recovers the ball (possession), the ball is declared dead. So, without a whistle, the Memphis player legally took possession and returned the ball. The official waving his arms means nothing. There needs to be a whistle sounded. Which, if there was, trumps everything, intentional or not. That is in accordance with Rule 4, Section 1, Article 2. Here's an analogy which may help. How many times is a fumble "touched" before someone takes possession?
After watching it several times, he was indeed on the ground while possessing the ball. The play ended at that moment.
You've got an MSU player, knee on ground with hand on ball holding it stationary and a referee tossing the bean bag at said ball while waving his arms. I don't give a rat's patootie whether he did or did not blow the whistle; he SIGNALLED that ball dead. And it WAS, and has been for the past 50-plus years I've been watching football, above explanations and interpretations notwithstanding.
Man, this is weird. The receiving team is legally given an opportunity to advance the ball after it is touched by the kicking team before the play is blown dead. I would say 9999 times out of 10000 the receiving team opts not to pick the ball up in this situation, so it's just kind of become accepted practice for everyone to view the ball as dead and the ref then tosses the bean bag and blows the play dead, but there's never been a sense of urgency to do so b/c nobody ever tries to advance the ball. Because literally nobody EVER picks the ball up in this situation. Except here, he did. The sequence was:
1. ball touched by kicking team (but not fully possessed)
2. bean bag thrown
3. ball picked up by receiving team
4. Ref motions to blow the play dead
But the time span separating 2, 3 and 4 was miniscule. And #3 literally never happens, so it's really just a formality for 2 and 4.
I don't fully blame the ref here. I'd wager 100% of refs would have handled this the same way b/c, again, no receiving team would ever pick this ball up. Yes, he was technically wrong in how he handled it, but any ref in college football would have handled it the same way.
This ignores the 2 players with #4 on the field at the same time...
1. ball touched by kicking team (but not fully possessed)
2. bean bag thrown
3. ball picked up by receiving team
4. Ref motions to blow the play dead
But the time span separating 2, 3 and 4 was miniscule. And #3 literally never happens, so it's really just a formality for 2 and 4.
I don't fully blame the ref here. I'd wager 100% of refs would have handled this the same way b/c, again, no receiving team would ever pick this ball up. Yes, he was technically wrong in how he handled it, but any ref in college football would have handled it the same way.
This ignores the 2 players with #4 on the field at the same time...
The episode you are citing is egregious, to be sure. We've actually got multiple references going on here. I was responding to @Harvard Gamecock about a scenario which occurred in the Auburn/Penn State game.
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