Somebody "defaced" Ben Tillman statue...
- Thread starter Anna_Nimmitty
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No britain was making cheap good with our cotton!!! What are you talking about i'm skating. You OK with unfair tax?
I am not. I was born in raised in the south and I am very conservative. I just haven't been brained washed by the backwoods idiots down here.
You've been brainwashed by history book that was wrote by the north. Backwood idiots now you calling your home state people idiots! Real nice
They were making cheap goods, with the south's cheap cotton, and they got taxed. Just like you get taxed today. There is nothing unfair about it. You do business in the country you have to pay taxes for the good of the country. Now, the real question to this conversation is why was the cotton so cheap to make? Answer: Slavery + cotton gin.
They are mostly not idiots, but there are a lot. Wake up and join the present. Stop being stuck in the past.
Another person in need of being enlightened. I gave you a chance. Keep making your arguments for imposing your racist symbols on people. George Washington at least at his death knew that slavery was not right and he was sinning by continuing it. That is why he set all of his slaves free in his will. He was worried about his wife's welfare and the welfare of his country that helped create that kept him from doing it sooner. He was a racist for jsut about all of his life, but he at least found enlightenment somewhere toward the end, proving again he was a leader and revolutionary over 30 years before the abolitionist movement really got going in the United States.
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Is slavery ever justifiable?
Any discussion about the ante Bellum south that does not recognize that slavery tainted EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE is in denial. It was the driving force in economics, politics, social mores, and faith.
It influenced learned ministers to proclaim that slaves did not have souls and hence were deserving of their slavery.
The heritage and states right arguments are true to an extent but only if they are understood that they are in service of justifying slavery.
Again is slavery EVER justifiable?
The argument of heritage always wants to separate out slavery. I have forefathers that fought for the CSA. They were hard working people, BUT they endorsed slavery. They enlisted and fought nobly defending their homeland to maintain slavery. They went to church and tithed and used their faith to deny the humanity of slaves. They were products of their times and they were on the wrong side of slavery.
To think that we can wave the heritage wand and sprinkle heritage dust on the flag and magically separate out the fact that it invokes slavery is ludicrous.
If you wish to defend it at least recognize that our heritage includes the moral repugnance of slavery and answer the question
IS SLAVERY EVER JUSTIFIABLE?
Any discussion about the ante Bellum south that does not recognize that slavery tainted EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE is in denial. It was the driving force in economics, politics, social mores, and faith.
It influenced learned ministers to proclaim that slaves did not have souls and hence were deserving of their slavery.
The heritage and states right arguments are true to an extent but only if they are understood that they are in service of justifying slavery.
Again is slavery EVER justifiable?
The argument of heritage always wants to separate out slavery. I have forefathers that fought for the CSA. They were hard working people, BUT they endorsed slavery. They enlisted and fought nobly defending their homeland to maintain slavery. They went to church and tithed and used their faith to deny the humanity of slaves. They were products of their times and they were on the wrong side of slavery.
To think that we can wave the heritage wand and sprinkle heritage dust on the flag and magically separate out the fact that it invokes slavery is ludicrous.
If you wish to defend it at least recognize that our heritage includes the moral repugnance of slavery and answer the question
IS SLAVERY EVER JUSTIFIABLE?
No. Slavery is NEVER justifiable.
Evolution is a wonderful thing. Point being that human beings have revolved/progressed since our very existence came to be. With such (evolution/progression), the human species has, despite all its flaws, gradually improved in its basic existence. Particularly so in the last 300 years.
JMHO, but in order for our species to continuously proceed and excel towards overall and advanced improvement for its ENTIRE SELF, then again IMHO, the most basic concept of "forgive and forget" must be accepted and implemented.
Point being that if it were possible to go back in time and change things for the better in regards to ignorance in general, then such could and should take place. But such isn't possible.
Further, there are those who in no shape nor form to whom slavery can be traced (their families didn't own slaves, or their families weren't slaves).
It just seems to me that ALL HUMANS should focus on learning from the past - not so much on punishing others for it.
JMHOFWIW
That is right. Focus is on the present and the future. Maybe one day in the future everyone can look at this symbol and not be offended by it. But for that to happen it needs to stop being used by the racists of today. In the meantime all government should disassociate itself with it because it creates an impression of unfairness and that it doesn't have the best interest of all it's citizens in mind. And if government wants to take a statue or two down for a known racist to make a point, I'm cool with that. I don't think it will start a domino effect or whatever. The are just certain people that want to be shown that the government is not rigged against them like it used to be.
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It is not my wish to punish those in the past. We ourselves will be judged on our own actions or inactions and I imagine we will get some scathing reviews from future generations.
What I find sadly funny in the process of ancestor worship is how we claim the virtue of our heritage.
We seem to be willing to do all sorts of mental gymnastics to separate our forefathers from their blind spots. Come on recite the litany with me...... They owned no slaves, they were brave in the face of incredible odds,they were God fearing people, it was about state's rights, they simply fought out of loyalty to their state, to defend their homes from invading armies....... All of this has some truth but it gets paraded around as the whole truth and the only truth. We must recognize that this truth is inextricably bound up in a system that saw fit to enslave human beings and deny them their freedom and humanity. I do not wish to do away with our heritage but we cannot fully claim it's nobility until we in humility acknowledge its faults.
Riddle me this: how far back can slavery be traced and where did it originate??
Point being as that ALL humans can find sinful guilts in ALL THEIR FOREFATHERS.
JMHOFWIW, but there simply is no perfection in any human race. We're all part of the same family - we are the same family.
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We are called to root out evil in the garden in which we are planted. JRR Tolkien
Psalm 79:8
Do not hold against us the sins of past generations; may your mercy come quickly to meet us, for we are in desperate need.
And...
Exodus 34:7
"Keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.”
O my goodness. I think we are close to the same point and the truth of the psalmist is that he recognized his shortcomings.
I cannot continue this conversation as believe it or not I have a church committee meeting I have to chair. But let me leave you with a funny and terrifying line from a poignant song by Dale Watson called "justice for all". Vengeance is mine sayeth The Lord. Ain't he a lucky feller!
It's not a riddle. The world changed from one that slavery was acceptable to one in which it was not. Those that held themselves out in defiance of that change are the one that receive the most scorn. It doesn't make the previous slavery okay. But part of the abolitionist movement was accepting what that previous world was and affirming that it is not going to be like that anymore and moving on to helping the people that were currently being persecuted and fighting their current oppressors. At that point the dead former slave-owners of a different era ceased to be an issue. The symbols of the country's past redeemed representing this new philosophy. The south has not been redeemed yet because the mind and hearts of it's people haven't fully changed yet. That is what is hopefully happening now. The people of the South has fought this redemption for so long it's going to take a lot more time for it's symbols to be redeemed. Right now those symbols are still tainted because of how they have been used for so long.
