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Strange Times

Most fast food places do not offer CLOSE to $15 an hour here in Columbia. $11 is the standard I have seen on signs and have heard of from people looking at those jobs- for everything from Wal Mart to McDonalds. The girl I have been seeing works at a restaurant (fast food but higher end than McDonalds) and they just promoted her to MANAGER, she gets $13/14 and hour now. Even at $15 an hour, that works out to $31,200 a year which (assuming you work 40 hours a week and never take a day off)- with prices where they are for rent and everything else, that is still basically poverty level pay in this economy.
It’s somewhat an arbitrary number. I hear exactly what you’re saying and completely agree the real issue is rising cost of a place to live.
 
Trades were stigmatized as being for people not smart enough for college when I was in school (I also graduated in 97). We had vocational programs, but they were akin to court ordered community service the way they described them. Made them seem very unsavory. Must have been that way here in VA, and virtually everywhere by the way a lot of the guys are talking. It's sad too, because these jobs are the bread and butter of society. Most people never really see them, but NOTHING happens without them.
I graduated in 2012 from a rural high school with a fantastic shop/vocational center on campus. One of the guys I was friends with got accepted to a local tech school and was excited about it because that's what he really wanted to do. He let the guidance counselor know so she could put his name and school on the wall with other acceptances, and the guidance counselor basically shot his dreams down. Because it wasn't a four year school, she didn't care.

That kind of mindset is absurd and leads to the situations where we are now. College isn't for everyone, and there are plenty of guys out there working great jobs making way more than others who got a pointless four year degree. "Forcing" kids to go to college because that's what you're supposed to do is not a good solution.
 
It’s somewhat an arbitrary number. I hear exactly what you’re saying and completely agree the real issue is rising cost of a place to live.
I thought the entire basis of this thread was that NOBODY WAS PAYING RENT?

Sorry...Let myself get a little worked up.
 
It's probably a number of things. Covid could have brought out the best in us, but it did not. Our society is soft. Cheap and fast is the expectation, and this is where we got.

For many people during the Great Depression, it was actually the happiest time of their lives. I suspect slowing down during covid wasn't that bad for a lot of people either. Things are going to have to shake up a bunch. It would be nice if people were more interested in their local community. We do not have resilient places. Cities, families are in massive debt, and we keep kicking the can down the road.
"For many people during the Great Depression, it was actually the happiest time of their lives"

I have never met one of these people. My parents were kids/teens during the 1930's and their stories were heart wrenching.
 
I'm not qualified to identify why all the reasons things are the way they are, but something about this just seemed exceptionally f'd up.

I don’t know that I know what this fully means either, but something similar happened locally.

We have customer who is retired and runs a large local food bank. At the beginning of CoVid they were literally rationing the food. During the benefits cycle the demand was so low they cut back. Now demand up again.

He said to me, then. I love helping these people but it gets to a point where it hardens you. Right now instead of coming here and continuing to get food for free and saving that money they’re getting, they’re out there blowing it and will be back before the year is over.

To me everything is effed up front to back, top to bottom and inside out.
 
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Trades were stigmatized as being for people not smart enough for college when I was in school (I also graduated in 97). We had vocational programs, but they were akin to court ordered community service the way they described them. Made them seem very unsavory. Must have been that way here in VA, and virtually everywhere by the way a lot of the guys are talking. It's sad too, because these jobs are the bread and butter of society. Most people never really see them, but NOTHING happens without them.
Ditto.
 
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"For many people during the Great Depression, it was actually the happiest time of their lives"

I have never met one of these people. My parents were kids/teens during the 1930's and their stories were heart wrenching.
My grandpa volunteered for Airborne 101 in WW2. His major motivation as he told me “Three hots and cot, at home I only had the cot.”
 
SSI Income Limits

"WHY IS INCOME IMPORTANT IN THE SSI PROGRAM?
Generally, the more countable income you have, the less your SSI benefit will be. If your countable income is over the allowable limit, you cannot receive SSI benefits. Some of your income may not count as income for the SSI program."
SSI is NOT Social Security.

Unlike Social Security benefits, SSI benefits are not based on your prior work or a family member's prior work. ... SSI benefits are paid on the first of the month. To get SSI, you must be disabled, blind, or at least 65 years old and have "limited" income and resources.

There is no limit on Social Security earnings once you reach your full SS retirement age.
 
SSI is NOT Social Security.

Unlike Social Security benefits, SSI benefits are not based on your prior work or a family member's prior work. ... SSI benefits are paid on the first of the month. To get SSI, you must be disabled, blind, or at least 65 years old and have "limited" income and resources.

There is no limit on Social Security earnings once you reach your full SS retirement age.
Which is 66 to 67. So just got to wait 5 more years and then my family can help out and get paid without reducing their income.
 
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I don’t know that I know what this fully means either, but something similar happened locally.

We have customer who is retired and runs a large local food bank. At the beginning of CoVid they were literally rationing the food. During the benefits cycle the demand was so low they cut back. Now demand up again.

He said to me, then. I love helping these people but it gets to a point where it hardens you. Right now instead of coming here and continuing to get food for free and saving that money they’re getting, they’re out there blowing it and will be back before the year is over.

To me everything is effed up front to back, top to bottom and inside out.
I spent many years working for "Toys for Tots" with all my Marine Reserve service. It was incredibly difficult not to be soured on the entire enterprise. The behaviors of a number of the parents was nothing short of appalling.

I spent many hours in the warehouse sorting toys after dealing with a parent, telling myself, "Think of the kids...Think of the kids...Think of the kids".

Honestly, some of the best times with that charity was working the "Collection Barrels" at events. The Cincinnati Bengals' "Wives" Association always was a class act. The team even sponsored one home game each year after Thanksgiving as "The Toys for Tots" game.
 
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SSI is NOT Social Security.

Unlike Social Security benefits, SSI benefits are not based on your prior work or a family member's prior work. ... SSI benefits are paid on the first of the month. To get SSI, you must be disabled, blind, or at least 65 years old and have "limited" income and resources.

There is no limit on Social Security earnings once you reach your full SS retirement age.
You are correct. I linked the wrong article. I was also referring to the "Income Penalty" ($18,960 for 2021) for income prior to Full Retirement age.

I still contend that it is disingenuous to withhold part of a benefit (a reduced benefit at that) based on an income you may be currently earning.
 
Which is 66 to 67. So just got to wait 5 more years and then my family can help out and get paid without reducing their income.
Just clarifying the difference between SS and SSI.

(You mean you can't figure a way to cover family off the books)
 
You are correct. I linked the wrong article. I was also referring to the "Income Penalty" ($18,960 for 2021) for income prior to Full Retirement age.

I still contend that it is disingenuous to withhold part of a benefit (a reduced benefit at that) based on an income you may be currently earning.
All I can say to that is things change. For most of the programs history the earnings limit was in force till age 72.

Call your congressman.
 
The price of building materials are through the roof and you have to wait on them, but yet their are more structures being built than I’ve seen in a long time. What gives?
 
I don’t know that I know what this fully means either, but something similar happened locally.

We have customer who is retired and runs a large local food bank. At the beginning of CoVid they were literally rationing the food. During the benefits cycle the demand was so low they cut back. Now demand up again.

He said to me, then. I love helping these people but it gets to a point where it hardens you. Right now instead of coming here and continuing to get food for free and saving that money they’re getting, they’re out there blowing it and will be back before the year is over.

To me everything is effed up front to back, top to bottom and inside out.
Also, the fact that these people had to get in their financed cars, get on an interstate, and idle to get food is a uniquely North American thing. A picture says a thousand words.
 
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The price of building materials are through the roof and you have to wait on them, but yet their are more structures being built than I’ve seen in a long time. What gives?
Low interest rates.

A neighbor of mine is building a house, it's in the dry. He told me the lumber alone added 37k, but he said at the end of the day with the interest rate that he got it was pretty much a wash.
 
Also, the fact that these people had to get in their financed cars, get on an interstate, and idle to get food is a uniquely North American thing. A picture says a thousand words.
To your point about financing. That is another tipping point in where we are now. When Lou Raineri at Solomon Bros created the mortgage backed security, it changed how credit was issued and therefore how we consume.
 
To your point about financing. That is another tipping point in where we are now. When Lou Raineri at Solomon Bros created the mortgage backed security, it changed how credit was issued and therefore how we consume.
Cities have bills coming due as well. The way we have developed since WWII has been short-sighted. The true cost of paying for low density development has been hidden by quick revenue from new growth.
 
Cities have bills coming due as well. The way we have developed since WWII has been short-sighted. The true cost of paying for low density development has been hidden by quick revenue from new growth.
Very much so. We will just print more money and have the fed bail the cities out just like we did a decade ago. At some point I don’t understand how this ends without a true financial reckoning. By the end of 2019, we were doing the same shit we did in 2005-2008. Mind boggling.
 
Very much so. We will just print more money and have the fed bail the cities out just like we did a decade ago. At some point I don’t understand how this ends without a true financial reckoning. By the end of 2019, we were doing the same shit we did in 2005-2008. Mind boggling.
Delaying and preventing the pain is concerning. There are some old farm towns in Iowa that I drove through recently that have zero economy. Any towns not outside of "bigger" cities have no prospects. It is sad. I have no idea what their future holds, but there are plenty of places that are being subsidized by financially productive places.
 
I run into the same issues. It's gotten so bad that I take meticulous notes when I talk to customers. For my product, I'm 7-8 week turnaround. And I tell customers it's an estimate, based on suppliers following through on their end. They don't get "estimate", they want to lock in a day, 2 months in advance. :rolleyes: I've had some tough conversations with customers. I'm a nice guy, but when I have notes and know exactly what I told you, you essentially call me a liar, it will not go well for you. Another thing I run into is customers will call one of my office guys trying to get a different answer. They're ruthless. The influx of yankees hasn't helped either. They're used to talking to people however they want. You're in the south now, it doesn't work that way here. I catch on to accents/attitudes quickly, and I have normal prices and also pain in the ass prices. If you're going to be a PITA, I'm going to make a chunk on you. ;) One of these days when I hang it up I'll miss what I do because I love what I do, but I won't miss the BS.
I understand PITA pricing very well. The other way to look at it is, do you really want to piss off the people you need to do quality work for you? How many of these yankees you've dealt are here to stay? I've wondered how many are just buying second homes, because the summers down here are a lot hotter than in the NE. Thanks for the anecdotes!
 
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A free market will always rise and fall. We are not a free market. We have shifted toward oligarchy. We’ve been through this before. The last great populist movement under Roosevelt fought against the original oligarchs.

I’m not so certain anyone wants to fight the current oligarchs. NAFTA and other globalization efforts didn’t have to be all bad. Maybe they would have, maybe not. But they’ve been corrupted.

Our current issues stem mostly from undue corporate influence in government. Contributions were banned in 1907. And though it loosened up a little our real troubles began with “soft money” in 1979, wherein unlimited dollars can go into a political party just not individual candidates.

In 1996 soft money was expanded. In 2000 PACs change the game for good.

Large oligarch corporations have control of the government. Sometimes their best interests align with the public, sometimes they don’t. The market is what the oligarchs tell the government it will be.

The only way out of this corrupted system is a similar will of politicians as in 1907. Ban the practice. Doesn’t seem a likely outcome to me.
Oh yeah. I can see that. "Hey, we need to pass legislation to fix the country, but will negatively impact us all financially. All for? Against? And the nays have it unanimously. Who'd have thought?"
 
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i was in a discussion with my financial advisor about this very subject. He claimed after doing some extensive research, there are countless theories , with numerous reasons, but no one has been able to point out one overriding factor.

I do get the shortage of fast food workers, bad pay, bad working conditions, and lately the interaction with the general public is toxic.
I'm nice to everyone I meet at these places, even expressing my appreciation for their being there. I mean it, too.
 
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Hah, thanks :)
I would run for government and work my way to being president but eventually I'll get cancelled because I broke Mandy's heart at the 8th grade dance for dancing with her best friend for the last song.
You could then "Uncancel" yourself by stating that you really broke Mandy's heart because she caught you dancing with "Doug" or "Kevin"
 
No, “strange times” was eating some orange sunshine amongst 300,000 at Rockingham

August 18, 1972 North Carolina Motor Speedway, Rockingham, NC ...

We wanted to go to that show so bad, I was 13 and my mom nixed it! Probably a good parenting decision!
 
"For many people during the Great Depression, it was actually the happiest time of their lives"

I have never met one of these people. My parents were kids/teens during the 1930's and their stories were heart wrenching.
My ex-FIL (good man, RIP, I miss that SOB) grew up hard right around that time. He told me numerous times that people talking about the good ol days were full of $hit. He said if he would have had the choice of a tractor when he was pulling the mule team across the pasture, he would have chose the tractor all day every day. There's still an old barn on the property that he built by hand in his teens. Cut the trees, planed them, built it by himself. Yeah, we've got it alot better these days.
 
Restaurants in particular will have a hard time. They will never be able to charge low prices and pay high wages.

Also, the general public (probably many of the people on this board), treats service industry employees like complete TRASH.

I worked in that industry for a huge chunk of my life....many of ya'll goin to hell.
 
Restaurants in particular will have a hard time. They will never be able to charge low prices and pay high wages.

Also, the general public (probably many of the people on this board), treats service industry employees like complete TRASH.

I worked in that industry for a huge chunk of my life....many of ya'll goin to hell.
It should be some type of requirement to work in customer service or food service. I'm grateful there are people to put up with it. I'll be interested to see what happens. People love eating out, but it's not cheap. Fast casual restaurants are extremely popular.
 
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Hope that's the case. However, companies like BlackRock are buying up residential real estate to hold for pension funds b/c there's not many options to park money thanks to 12+ years of printing money out of thin air. A good deal of the funds being used are from bailouts (money printing) to corporations since 2008 who have turned to BlackRock. Bonds are not an option as they sit around zero or negative yielding throughout the world. So it's likely they'll just look at the evictions/foreclosures flood as a massive buying opportunity.

Until the Fed rates significantly, this trend is likely to continue. The Fed is holding a bunch of private corporation debt which served as a vehicle to infuse the new money into the economy. Hence, raising interest rates at this point is counterintuitive. What a mess.
I agree w/ you 100%. The current climate does not look anything like the crisis of 2008. We have more realtors than houses to sell which has never happened. I believe the evictions will open up additional buying opportunities which will be scooped up but we will level out home prices (which is already happening in some markets). Worst case growth in real estate is non-existent for a few years but I dont think we will see the drops in home prices akin to 2008.
 
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I spent many years working for "Toys for Tots" with all my Marine Reserve service. It was incredibly difficult not to be soured on the entire enterprise. The behaviors of a number of the parents was nothing short of appalling.

I spent many hours in the warehouse sorting toys after dealing with a parent, telling myself, "Think of the kids...Think of the kids...Think of the kids".

Honestly, some of the best times with that charity was working the "Collection Barrels" at events. The Cincinnati Bengals' "Wives" Association always was a class act. The team even sponsored one home game each year after Thanksgiving as "The Toys for Tots" game.
This has been my experience w/ a LOT of charities. You have to give from the heart and not think about it. There are many people that are going to abuse the system and others that desperately need the help.
 
A free market will always rise and fall. We are not a free market. We have shifted toward oligarchy. We’ve been through this before. The last great populist movement under Roosevelt fought against the original oligarchs.

I’m not so certain anyone wants to fight the current oligarchs. NAFTA and other globalization efforts didn’t have to be all bad. Maybe they would have, maybe not. But they’ve been corrupted.

Our current issues stem mostly from undue corporate influence in government. Contributions were banned in 1907. And though it loosened up a little our real troubles began with “soft money” in 1979, wherein unlimited dollars can go into a political party just not individual candidates.

In 1996 soft money was expanded. In 2000 PACs change the game for good.

Large oligarch corporations have control of the government. Sometimes their best interests align with the public, sometimes they don’t. The market is what the oligarchs tell the government it will be.

The only way out of this corrupted system is a similar will of politicians as in 1907. Ban the practice. Doesn’t seem a likely outcome to me.
Problem is trickle down economics is not trickling down. Give large or small businesses more money it will not mean more employees and better pay. Example Wal-Mart sales for 2020 $559,000,000 with an income of $138,000,000 paid $6,858,000 in state and federal taxes that equals 4.9% worldwide. No one on here pays 5% but the majority in SC will fight rabidly for them not to pay anymore taxes. It makes no sense but it's where we are.
 
Mama knows best…….you could have gone & turned out a degenerate ….not to mention the sex education that was on display 😳
Well, not going to that show didn't impede that!

Also, if you get a chance watch the doc. on hbo about Woodstock 99, the debauchery that happened there is probably unparralled! Maybe Altamont
 
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Problem is trickle down economics is not trickling down. Give large or small businesses more money it will not mean more employees and better pay. Example Wal-Mart sales for 2020 $559,000,000 with an income of $138,000,000 paid $6,858,000 in state and federal taxes that equals 4.9% worldwide. No one on here pays 5% but the majority in SC will fight rabidly for them not to pay anymore taxes. It makes no sense but it's where we are.

Better pay tends to happen when you show up on time, work hard, seek challenges and persevere.

On the other hand, pointing fingers, complaining and screaming 'not fair' rarely leads to advancement.
 
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