ADVERTISEMENT

The decline of USC basketball 1974-2012.

It's a shame it took this long to get back to national prominence. I try to understand why we haven't been able to do this sooner, but the only thing I can figure is that it is complacency with our administration. I don't know how many years I've heard different people say that "it's hard to win at South Carolina...you're just down the road from Duke and UNC and it's hard to recruit with teams like that in your backyard." Eventually people start to believe that crap....fans, recruits, everyone.

Well guess what? Frank Martin went out and recruited some good players (not necessarily McDonald's All-Americans), coached them up, and just proved everyone wrong. Finally....thanks Frank for doing what many believed could not be done here.
 
It's a shame it took this long to get back to national prominence. I try to understand why we haven't been able to do this sooner, but the only thing I can figure is that it is complacency with our administration. I don't know how many years I've heard different people say that "it's hard to win at South Carolina...you're just down the road from Duke and UNC and it's hard to recruit with teams like that in your backyard." Eventually people start to believe that crap....fans, recruits, everyone.

Well guess what? Frank Martin went out and recruited some good players (not necessarily McDonald's All-Americans), coached them up, and just proved everyone wrong. Finally....thanks Frank for doing what many believed could not be done here.
ACC isn't what it used to be. The signature event - mbb tournament - has been watered down with the absorption of much of the old Big East and that a conference is allowed to have at-large members go dancing. Us not playing them on a consistent basis didn't help either (one would have hoped that Fogler understood that, but I guess he didn't).

What's the difference between Fogler's egg-laying crew of 20 years ago and this squad?
 
It's a shame it took this long to get back to national prominence. I try to understand why we haven't been able to do this sooner, but the only thing I can figure is that it is complacency with our administration. I don't know how many years I've heard different people say that "it's hard to win at South Carolina...you're just down the road from Duke and UNC and it's hard to recruit with teams like that in your backyard." Eventually people start to believe that crap....fans, recruits, everyone.

Well guess what? Frank Martin went out and recruited some good players (not necessarily McDonald's All-Americans), coached them up, and just proved everyone wrong. Finally....thanks Frank for doing what many believed could not be done here.
Dixon shouldn't have fired Felton. Not sure there was a worse AD anywhere at any time.
 
ACC isn't what it used to be. The signature event - mbb tournament - has been watered down with the absorption of much of the old Big East and that a conference is allowed to have at-large members go dancing. Us not playing them on a consistent basis didn't help either (one would have hoped that Fogler understood that, but I guess he didn't).

What's the difference between Fogler's egg-laying crew of 20 years ago and this squad?


2 tourney wins?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rod Dangerfield
I've read that article a dozen times before, and there remains a lot of conjecture that is pretty much nonsense. Focusing on Garnett was silly; he never once seriously considered college, and Fogler never once seriously gave any consideration that he may come to SC. Jermaine O'Neal was a completely different story, and, in my opinion, led to Fogler's demise. Fogler counted on and planned for O'Neal to be on the team, and when he chose the NBA instead, it a)left Fogler with no back-up plan, and b)flat-out deflated him to the point that he basically checked out on the job.

Also, the idea that Tubby Smith ever seriously considered coming to SC when we hired Odom is nonsense --- as is the idea that the notion ever progressed to so much as a discussion between the university and Smith. Jim Calhoun, on the other hand, DID seriously consider our overtures at the time.

A lot of good analysis in the article though. Interesting ideas about McGuire's possible successors, and how that could have changed things, though I don't think any of the 3 guys ---K, Valvano, or Pitino --- were ever seriously considered. Few people remember it, but the only other guy besides Foster that we seriously considered hiring at the time was Chuck Daly, who had had a ton of success at Penn, and had become an assistant on the 76ers. He wanted the job.
 
It's a shame it took this long to get back to national prominence. I try to understand why we haven't been able to do this sooner, but the only thing I can figure is that it is complacency with our administration. I don't know how many years I've heard different people say that "it's hard to win at South Carolina...you're just down the road from Duke and UNC and it's hard to recruit with teams like that in your backyard." Eventually people start to believe that crap....fans, recruits, everyone.

Well guess what? Frank Martin went out and recruited some good players (not necessarily McDonald's All-Americans), coached them up, and just proved everyone wrong. Finally....thanks Frank for doing what many believed could not be done here.
Let's not act like typical Clempson fans with football and say we have reached the national stage because of 1 or 2 good years.

It has to be a prolonged effort and multiple NCAA tourney births and wins before we can say we've reached 'national prominence'.

Make the tourney 4-5 years in a row coupled with a few runs into the tournament passed the first weekend... then you can start using that phrase around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: atl-cock
It's a shame it took this long to get back to national prominence. I try to understand why we haven't been able to do this sooner, but the only thing I can figure is that it is complacency with our administration. I don't know how many years I've heard different people say that "it's hard to win at South Carolina...you're just down the road from Duke and UNC and it's hard to recruit with teams like that in your backyard." Eventually people start to believe that crap....fans, recruits, everyone.

Well guess what? Frank Martin went out and recruited some good players (not necessarily McDonald's All-Americans), coached them up, and just proved everyone wrong. Finally....thanks Frank for doing what many believed could not be done here.
BC...
A. SC is not a HS BB hotbed. When a Garnett, Felton, Woods pops up, we r fighting nearby blue bloods for them.

B. BB is a harder sale than FB. It's played indoors and I can go to a Butler and be a Tourney team; w/o moving where Mom can't see me play.

C. Our Admin wouldn't spend $$ on a top tier coach. Finally did better w Fogler. But his fighting w McGee and the struggle to right the ship was too tiring and he quit. Too many washed up hires, up & comer hires, family card hires.
 
I've read that article a dozen times before, and there remains a lot of conjecture that is pretty much nonsense. Focusing on Garnett was silly; he never once seriously considered college, and Fogler never once seriously gave any consideration that he may come to SC. Jermaine O'Neal was a completely different story, and, in my opinion, led to Fogler's demise. Fogler counted on and planned for O'Neal to be on the team, and when he chose the NBA instead, it a)left Fogler with no back-up plan, and b)flat-out deflated him to the point that he basically checked out on the job.

Also, the idea that Tubby Smith ever seriously considered coming to SC when we hired Odom is nonsense --- as is the idea that the notion ever progressed to so much as a discussion between the university and Smith. Jim Calhoun, on the other hand, DID seriously consider our overtures at the time.

A lot of good analysis in the article though. Interesting ideas about McGuire's possible successors, and how that could have changed things, though I don't think any of the 3 guys ---K, Valvano, or Pitino --- were ever seriously considered. Few people remember it, but the only other guy besides Foster that we seriously considered hiring at the time was Chuck Daly, who had had a ton of success at Penn, and had become an assistant on the 76ers. He wanted the job.
Had we kept our cool and stayed in the ACC, the hard times likely would not have come in the mid 70s, and I think Don Walsh would have eventually succeeded Frank I. But with all the politics in the athletic department, the president, and the BOT, Frank I did not have the ability to call all the shots he wished.
I would like to think that Frank I would have been okay with an AD who was not a head coach of another sport at the school.

These days, the way the various coaches and players support other coaches and players of other sports at USC is wonderful, such a far cry from the turmoil of 40 years ago.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: nlstanford
Penn's 1970–71 team completed an undefeated regular season (26–0) and advanced to the Eastern Regional Final in the NCAA Tournament, losing there to a Villanovateam it had defeated during the regular season. Villanova lost to UCLA in the national championship game, but was later found to be using an ineligible player,
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT