The frustrations with basketball

[Cocky4SC]

Nobody would be upset had this team handled the teams they should have beat without question earlier this year
-Stoney Brook
-Wofford
-Wyoming

We'd be sitting at 13-6 and 5-1 in conference. This is why I for one am frustrated with where we are as a program. Realistically at this record we'd be 5/6 wins from the tournament, instead we are still trying to figure out if Jekyll or Hyde is going to show up

 

[Gamecockben1979]

Nobody would be upset had this team handled the teams they should have beat without question earlier this year
-Stoney Brook
-Wofford
-Wyoming

We'd be sitting at 13-6 and 5-1 in conference. This is why I for one am frustrated with where we are as a program. Realistically at this record we'd be 5/6 wins from the tournament, instead we are still trying to figure out if Jekyll or Hyde is going to show up

Great post and couldn’t hit the nail on the head any more. Beat the teams you should beat and you’ll always have a chance. Stumble through December and you need to be close to perfect afterward.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

As much as I get upset with Frank Martin, I like him and can't really think who can replace him and do better job...

I want him to stay as long as he wants to stay... Firing Frank isn't the answer... He took the job , not knowing how bad Horn left this program and chased current players at the time away, before Horn left...

That was Eric Hyman's fault for allowing Horn do damage before he left...

 

[76gintcock]

Do you have your clock set to lay down an anti-FMM post at the same time every night? We know what you think. Ease up already.

 

[roosterbell]

The answer is always fire someone when we lose a game we shouldn't. So let's just jump right back into that same carousel of coaches that have gotten us so far in the past 40+ years. I'm sure there's a quick fix out there just waiting to jump at this awesome job.

I understand the frustration of not currently being a top tier program, but you probably just have to be patient. I do feel like we finally have an excellent nucleus of young players that can put us back on the map if we can avoid the attrition that has plagued this program. The 2018 class is the best group of athletes Coach Martin has brought in since he's been here in my opinion. They've shown steady improvement since the beginning of the season and we still have 3 guys out with injuries or eligibility issues that could really be helping us right now.

If we're still spinning our wheels two years from now, then maybe it will be time for a change. He did get us our first final four in program history just 2 short years ago after inheriting a dumpster fire. I think he deserves a little more time to see what he can do with this group of freshman and underclassmen.

 

[ansoncock]

I like Coach FM and think he is a great guy and coach. I just wish he would pressure himself to find out why he cannot recruit the in state talent as well as UNC and Duke does. Surely there must be an image problem. It has to be something that can be fixed.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

We're 5-1 in the conference; what makes anyone think we won't finish with a winning record in conference? We already have 2 conference road wins.

 

[FORKCOCK]

As much as I get upset with Frank Martin, I like him and can't really think who can replace him and do better job...

I want him to stay as long as he wants to stay... Firing Frank isn't the answer... He took the job , not knowing how bad Horn left this program and chased current players at the time away, before Horn left...

That was Eric Hyman's fault for allowing Horn do damage before he left...

I barely even remember Horn. This is Frank's gig.

 

[Horseshoe 04]

There’s a lot of nice golf courses in South Carolina

 

[Thigh Man]

Nobody would be upset had this team handled the teams they should have beat without question earlier this year instead we are still trying to figure out if Jekyll or Hyde is going to show up

Boy you nailed that. I personally have never seen anything like this. One game we come out crisp, fast, sharp. The next game, against a lesser opponent, we play like we are using a medicine ball. The degree of difference, in the quality of team we have out there, from game to game, is difficult to understand.

 

[midline]

I like Coach FM and think he is a great guy and coach. I just wish he would pressure himself to find out why he cannot recruit the in state talent as well as UNC and Duke does. Surely there must be an image problem. It has to be something that can be fixed.

Image has nothing to do with it. It is about tradition and success. If you are a stud player, what type of program is going to attract your attention? The program that caught an unexpected three week hot stretch to get to a final four, but has little other success to point to over the last 40 years, or a Duke or UNC where both have numerous national titles, legendary coaches, and are always the big game on ESPN as opposed to be slotted at 6:30 on the SEC Network? And it doesn't help that neither are too far from SC for family to come see them play at any time. Is it image? I guess. But the image you are fighting isn't something that can be changed in the near future.

 

[Bongsummers]

Give me some names of coach who would actually want to coach at Carolina, not named Greg Marshall, who is Pepsicock's favorite coach...

Pat Kelsey. Bob Richey. Neither is a home run hire but we wouldn't have to pay them 3 million a year.

But money doesn't matter. Tanner hasn't accomplished squat and he's one of the best paid athletic directors in the country.

 

[mikey888]

It's like our fans didn't notice the big ass fbi scandal & still can't figure out why we struggle with recruiting. On top of that the men's basketball program doesn't get near the support the other programs get from the athletic department. When we signed with under armour that decision effected men's basketball more than any other sport. Marketing has been subpar for many years & the facilities have been subpar. AAU coaches hates us, not Frank Martin but USC. In-state players don't want to play here. Some of our fans pull for unc & duke in basketball and usc in football. That pastor from the lower Richland community does whatever he can to push players away from usc. Give the man the resources to work with & we will be better. Justin King & his crew should help more with videos & recruiting edits. Lets build a basketball operations building. Lets rearrange the seating in the CLA.

 

[Bongsummers]

Image has nothing to do with it. It is about tradition and success. If you are a stud player, what type of program is going to attract your attention? The program that caught an unexpected three week hot stretch to get to a final four, but has little other success to point to over the last 40 years, or a Duke or UNC where both have numerous national titles, legendary coaches, and are always the big game on ESPN as opposed to be slotted at 6:30 on the SEC Network? And it doesn't help that neither are too far from SC for family to come see them play at any time. Is it image? I guess. But the image you are fighting isn't something that can be changed in the near future.

Tennessee is not a traditional SEC powerhouse in basketball.

 

[DarkCock]

I'm sure the response on 107.5 would be that it has taken the young players a while to come around, etc. The problem is there's no guarantee the young players will be around next year or two years from now. The turnover in the program is outrageous, even by today's standards.

With that being said, I still think we're fortunate to have Martin. Hopefully he can take it up another level be establishing more continuity in the program.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

I barely even remember Horn.

He's the asshole who killed our baseball program...

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Pat Kelsey. Bob Richey. Neither is a home run hire but we wouldn't have to pay them 3 million a year.

But money doesn't matter. Tanner hasn't accomplished squat and he's one of the best paid athletic directors in the country.

Have they been to the final four as a coach???

 

[ScWildthing61]

Tennessee is not a traditional SEC powerhouse in basketball.

Outside of Kentucky and perhaps Arkansas, nobody in the SEC is.

 

[Bongsummers]

Have they been to the final four as a coach???

I've had fewer better experiences as a gamecock fan than that Final Four run. That said, if we only expect to go to go the tournament once a decade, we shouldn't pay Coach Martin millions in perpetuity for the Final Four.

 

[Bongsummers]

Outside of Kentucky and perhaps Arkansas, nobody in the SEC is.

That's my point. Tennessee is ranked # 1.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

I've had fewer better experiences as a gamecock fan than that Final Four run. That said, if we only expect to go to go the tournament once a decade, we shouldn't pay Coach Martin millions in perpetuity for the Final Four.

Well we're 5-1 in the SEC, let's see if we go 8-8 or better...

 

[DarkCock]

That's my point. Tennessee is ranked # 1.

Sure, they're ranked #1...but if we beat them this week, would you be shocked?

 

[Bongsummers]

Sure, they're ranked #1...but if we beat them this week, would you be shocked?

Not really. This USC team has played pretty tough at home lately. Frankly, I don't know anything about the match ups for the game.

 

[Bongsummers]

Well we're 5-1 in the SEC, let's see if we go 8-8 or better...

I think we will. I think the team has got some really good, younger players. But the NCAA is still highly unlikely. We just dug ourselves into a deep hole early on.

 

[Cocky4SC]

Well we're 5-1 in the SEC, let's see if we go 8-8 or better...

World, I think we go 10-6 or 9-7 in conference... which should have been good enough to get us into the dance provided we didn't crap the bed with the three bad losses in December. Again just frustrating.

 

[Dr. Curmudgeon]

We're 5-1 in the conference; what makes anyone think we won't finish with a winning record in conference? We already have 2 conference road wins.

Agreed, I think they will lose a few more games (especially on the road) but I see at least 10 wins there.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

World, I think we go 10-6 or 9-7 in conference... which should have been good enough to get us into the dance provided we didn't crap the bed with the three bad losses in December. Again just frustrating.

I disagree, if we go 10-6 or 9-7, we would have to run the tables in the SEC Tourney and win it all to get in the Big Dance...

If we go 10-6 or 9-7, we're in the NIT, but not playing at home, but on the road...

 

[ansoncock]

Image has nothing to do with it. It is about tradition and success. If you are a stud player, what type of program is going to attract your attention? The program that caught an unexpected three week hot stretch to get to a final four, but has little other success to point to over the last 40 years, or a Duke or UNC where both have numerous national titles, legendary coaches, and are always the big game on ESPN as opposed to be slotted at 6:30 on the SEC Network? And it doesn't help that neither are too far from SC for family to come see them play at any time. Is it image? I guess. But the image you are fighting isn't something that can be changed in the near future.

If it is about image as a winner, why didn't our recruiting pick up immediately after the Final Four appearance? Also, how do new coaches 'suddenly' start recruiting above their weight at their new school, after the previous coach was fired for not winning enough games?

There is no Chicken Curse. We are number 17 in school athletic dept. resources. Why should we be #62 in player recruiting level? I am not necessarily talking about elite 5* players. What about elite 4* players?

 

[Wiles2]

Hard not to like Frank. It's just a strange style. Half of the time you get the feeling he's running an exhibition camp - record be damned.

 

[CockofEarle]

Nobody would be upset had this team handled the teams they should have beat without question earlier this year
-Stoney Brook
-Wofford
-Wyoming

We'd be sitting at 13-6 and 5-1 in conference. This is why I for one am frustrated with where we are as a program. Realistically at this record we'd be 5/6 wins from the tournament, instead we are still trying to figure out if Jekyll or Hyde is going to show up

4sc cant jump, nuff said

 

[ansoncock]

Hard not to like Frank. It's just a strange style. Half of the time you get the feeling he's running an exhibition camp - record be damned.

I certainly like Coach Frank. He is a good evaluator of talent, and a good developer of talented players.

I just wish he would do what ever it takes to convince the talented in state players to stay in state and play for the Gamecocks. Not talking about the one and done's necessarily, but the elite 4*s.

 

[Bclc829]

I have trouble remembering all the other coaches that led UofSC to a final 4...

 

[Bongsummers]

I have trouble remembering all the other coaches that led UofSC to a final 4...

Stop it.

 

[Dr. Curmudgeon]

I disagree, if we go 10-6 or 9-7, we would have to run the tables in the SEC Tourney and win it all to get in the Big Dance...

If we go 10-6 or 9-7, we're in the NIT, but not playing at home, but on the road...

Yeah, to get in with 10 wins in conference would mean at least 3 wins in the SECT..imo

 

[Pressrocks]

Unfortunately as we now on the wrong end of a streak, a losing streak, what’s more likely to occur is apathy to the men’s basketball team. Folks talking about baseball and women’s basketball. Nothing wrong with that but it was fun thinking and discussing the possibilities of the men’s team as it was hitting it’s stride with those 5 wins and no losses in the first 18 days of the new year. Hopefully beat Georgia or might be quite awhile before we get another W. Tennessee is good but USC right now does not look like the same team that won 5 in a row. Look uncoordinated, stiff for some reason like it is not fun to play.

 

[cockymark]

Heck why do people keep saying who would want to coach at usc....if you pay big bucks they will come. how did tenn get rick barnes? ummm they paid him!

 

[midline]

Tennessee got Rick Barnes because he got run at Texas and still wanted to coach. He kind of flattened out at Texas. They were always pretty good, but hadn't had a special year since the Final Four days not too long after he started there. The coaches with a name are already independently wealthy wherever they are. Doubt that USC is going to go so far off the financial scale to draw someone of that ilk. And USC tried desperately to go the big name route once before. Ended up with Dave Odom, who had a name but was a year away from being fired at Wake because the program had slid from it's glory days, and got a no from everyone they approached. And facts are facts. USC isn't the most attractive place. Trouble recruiting because of a lack of history and tradition. Even the Final Four run from two years ago is viewed as a fluke and not an indication of an improving program. And with UNC and Duke sitting just up the road, they are going to draw any premier recruits for the foreseeable future. That being said, I don't think Frank is going anywhere. Sure that the Final Four bought Frank a pretty long leash. At this point I almost view USC basketball like I did Wake Forest football in the Jim Grobe days. Recruit two/three stars and develop them. Shoot for one, or two good years when they get experience, and then start over.

 

[_NOVA_]

For me, the frustration starts with the players. If you watch a lot of college basketball, you won't see many teams as talent deficient as what Frank has put on the court here. There have really only been five players in his tenure at South Carolina who wouldn't look out-of-place playing big minutes on a top 25 team: Thornwell, Silva, Dozier, Carrera and Frank Booker. Carrera only got to that point his last season and we only had Booker for one season. Dozier, frankly, is marginal because his offensive game was so rough. You could argue only Thornwell and Silva are the legit top 25 type players to play for Martin here.

You can be frustrated by his sets, bizarre substitution fetish, game management, sideline demeanor, etc. But in my mind, he just hasn't gotten the players he needs to compete, or been able to develop players at the rate he needs. Instead, we get the Hasse's of the world who are skilled, but not nearly athletic enough to play at the highest levels in college; or the Bryant's of the world who are athletic monsters, but are so behind with their ball skills, shot and balance that it's unlikely their basketball skills will match their athletic potential. And what you ultimately get is bad basketball. Frank the coach, needs to have a serious talk with Frank the recruiter and go in a different direction.

 

[psmith5532]

So...Outside of the late 60's and early 70's what in our history dictates we would be a NCAA Tourny team on a consistent level? Since 1971 we have made the field a whopping 9 times!! And since the McGuire days what coach has stayed more then 8 years? Now I am with you guys that this program should make the Tourny at least every couple of years but our history tells us that won't happen. I do believe the longer Frank hangs around the more consistent he will become. I'm still hopeful.

 

[_NOVA_]

So...Outside of the late 60's and early 70's what in our history dictates we would be a NCAA Tourny team on a consistent level? Since 1971 we have made the field a whopping 9 times!! And since the McGuire days what coach has stayed more then 8 years? Now I am with you guys that this program should make the Tourny at least every couple of years but our history tells us that won't happen. I do believe the longer Frank hangs around the more consistent he will become. I'm still hopeful.

After they made their first tournament appearance in 1964, Wichita State made the tournament only 7 more times before they hired Gregg Marshall. That's 7 appearances in 44 years. Not too dissimilar from our own history. Since hiring Marshall in 2007, they've made the tournament 7 times. In other words, Marshall has had about the same number of appearances as the school had it its entire history to that point.

Make a great hire, support the facilities development, cultivate fan experience, win games. It can be done anywhere.