Virginia Dept of Ed Cancels Advanced Math

[BigWillieCock]

We are now literally becoming the dumbest country in the world. No advanced math until the 11th grade STATEWIDE.

It’s an effort to “improve equity in mathematics learning opportunities”.

I suppose I should be ashamed of the advanced Algebra, Geometry and Trig I took in 8th-10th grade.

PS- it wasn’t all that advanced by the way, pretty easy. College math on the other hand kicked my butt. I expect college math will dumb down too. What can go wrong?

 

[uscedge21]

Dumbing down the masses! All a part of their plan to control. I fear it is too late to stop it at this point....

 

[ToddFlanders]

Dumbing down the masses! All a part of their plan to control. I fear it is too late to stop it at this point....

Ah yes, the infamous "they" and the extremely vague threat of "control" - with the concession that there is real fear that nothing can be done. You sir win internet conspiracy theory bingo for today!

 

[ClemDent]

Exceptionalism has no value in a Socialist society.

 

[TopHook]

There is no slippery slope.

 

[McCock]

We are now literally becoming the dumbest country in the world. No advanced math until the 11th grade STATEWIDE.

It’s an effort to “improve equity in mathematics learning opportunities”.

I suppose I should be ashamed of the advanced Algebra, Geometry and Trig I took in 8th-10th grade.

PS- it wasn’t all that advanced by the way, pretty easy. College math on the other hand kicked my butt. I expect college math will dumb down too. What can go wrong?

With due respect, your post is an inaccurate oversimplification of what VA is trying to do. The goal of revamping the state's curriculum is to actually increase, not lower, the amount of students taking advanced math courses in 11th and 12th grades by introducing advanced math concepts to ALL students in earlier grades rather than just to the ones who previously would have been tracked into the "honors" level classes (i.e., to make the lower level math curriculum more robust or at least more varied, not less). Algebra and geometry will actually be integrated into earlier grades (for some kids, geometry/trigonometry make more functional sense than algebra, so it appears the idea make the instruction less concept-linear so that kids can continue to advance in their studies and get to the point where many of them can take advanced courses their junior and senior years).

But yeah, it's much easier to read the first paragraph from a slanted source and conclude that educators, who as a group generally work their rears off for very little thanks and even less compensation to try to lift students up from wherever they're starting, are working to make kids dumber.

Henry County Public Schools will overhaul math instruction for the first time 'since the 1800s'

The traditional alignment of students and classes will change.

martinsvillebulletin.com

 

[CCUIrmo]

With due respect, your post is an inaccurate oversimplification of what VA is trying to do. The goal of revamping the state's curriculum is to actually increase, not lower, the amount of students taking advanced math courses in 11th and 12th grades by introducing advanced math concepts to ALL students in earlier grades rather than just to the ones who previously would have been tracked into the "honors" level classes (i.e., to make the lower level math curriculum more robust or at least more varied, not less). Algebra and geometry will actually be integrated into earlier grades (for some kids, geometry/trigonometry make more functional sense than algebra, so it appears the idea make the instruction less concept-linear so that kids can continue to advance in their studies and get to the point where many more students can take advanced courses their junior and senior years).

But yeah, it's much easier to read the first paragraph from a slanted source and conclude that educators, who as a group generally work their rears off for very little thanks and even less compensation to try to lift students up from wherever they're starting, and simply conclude that those folks are hellbent on making kids dumber.

Henry County Public Schools will overhaul math instruction for the first time 'since the 1800s'

The traditional alignment of students and classes will change.

martinsvillebulletin.com

The OP headline is a continuation of misleading people. It’s why we are where we are anymore with all the anger and hate. “Headlines” is all someone reads and goes with rather than doing research or even reading a full story. The news is FULL of it anymore and is why people are always angry and always “know” more than anyone else. Their are filled with one sentence of info rather than full information. Social media is also hugely to blame for this.

 

[alaskagamecock]

Ah yes, the infamous "they" and the extremely vague threat of "control" - with the concession that there is real fear that nothing can be done. You sir win internet conspiracy theory bingo for today!

Let's take the control part out, you tell me how this helps students? This is an idiotic decision and you're simply handicapping students who have a penchant and desire to excel in mathematics. Anyone with an objective and reasonable mind can see how stupid this is.

 

[GamecockJL]

Great News!

 

[Dizzy01]

Let's take the control part out, you tell me how this helps students? This is an idiotic decision and you're simply handicapping students who have a penchant and desire to excel in mathematics. Anyone with an objective and reasonable mind can see how stupid this is.

And here we have the perfect example of what is discussed in post 7.

 

[Dizzy01]

With due respect, your post is an inaccurate oversimplification of what VA is trying to do. The goal of revamping the state's curriculum is to actually increase, not lower, the amount of students taking advanced math courses in 11th and 12th grades by introducing advanced math concepts to ALL students in earlier grades rather than just to the ones who previously would have been tracked into the "honors" level classes (i.e., to make the lower level math curriculum more robust or at least more varied, not less). Algebra and geometry will actually be integrated into earlier grades (for some kids, geometry/trigonometry make more functional sense than algebra, so it appears the idea make the instruction less concept-linear so that kids can continue to advance in their studies and get to the point where many of them can take advanced courses their junior and senior years).

But yeah, it's much easier to read the first paragraph from a slanted source and conclude that educators, who as a group generally work their rears off for very little thanks and even less compensation to try to lift students up from wherever they're starting, are working to make kids dumber.

Henry County Public Schools will overhaul math instruction for the first time 'since the 1800s'

The traditional alignment of students and classes will change.

martinsvillebulletin.com

It’s interesting but our sons 1st grade testing this year had algebraic concepts on it. Upon researching they included it because some kids have math concepts just click with them whether taught or not so introducing concepts on a broader scale helps them identify these things.

 

[bucketdad]

Unleash your potential? No, we're not even going to look for it.

 

[duckcock2.0.0]

From reading the article provided and knowing nothing more about this, my initial question would be, why can't they do both? Or is that an option?

 

[ruffledfeathers]

Ah yes, the infamous "they" and the extremely vague threat of "control" - with the concession that there is real fear that nothing can be done. You sir win internet conspiracy theory bingo for today!

You are ignoring historic precedent. One of the more prominent being slave owners denying their slaves an education so as to "control" them.

No we are not at that level of control, but we are returning to the path to get their again.

Education is expected to be provided, not restricted.

Despite your delusions of some conspiracy, the action in Virginia just happened and is real. Virginia's children are literally being held back from attaining an higher education, if they are ready for it, simply to not embarrass those that cannot keep up.

What of those children in between. They are not seeing the advanced math until the last moment. If they fail a class on the first try, they risk not graduating with their classmates of 18 years, just because they couldn't take the class again before graduation.

Attaining an education should ALWAYS be encouraged, not discouraged.

 

[McCock]

Let's take the control part out, you tell me how this helps students? This is an idiotic decision and you're simply handicapping students who have a penchant and desire to excel in mathematics. Anyone with an objective and reasonable mind can see how stupid this is.

I'll bite.

If the highest math course that a high school student can take is BC Calculus, and a student under the new curriculum can still take that course in the 11th or 12th grade just like s/he could under the old, students aren't being handicapped. The concepts to be taught are just being reordered so that they're taught in parallel rather than linearly, and the only deprivation the students are subject to is that they aren't being labeled until later in their educational careers.

Once again, please take a few minutes to review some summaries of the curriculum. Its goals (at least in theory) are to provide the same rigor to students currently in the "high" math course and to incorporate more advanced math concepts earlier in instruction to kids who would have been in the lower math course under the old curriculum standards. The rationale is that what are currently considered "advanced" concepts in a 140-year-old curriculum (like geometry/trig taught in an earlier grade, for example) may not in actuality be more difficult for kids with different learning styles. That is, a person may find algebra, the first course in the algebra/geometry/trig sequence, maddeningly difficult but find geometry and trig simple merely because of the way their brain works. VA is merely reasoning that it makes more sense to teach students all of those subjects in parallel until it's time to take calculus or whatever terminal math class the kids will take in high school so that they maximize the progression for everyone and provide a longer time for the light bulb to turn on for the concepts that each student finds more difficult.

If you take a look in a high school machining CTE class, you will find students who may have had difficulty making a good grade in their algebra class but have a much higher functional understanding of geometry and trig than many of the kids in the same school's honors level geometry or trig classes.

 

[Bubbaglide]

Holding back the gifted isn't the answer. Assisting the less gifted is the answer. People learn at different rates and in different ways. Some never grasp abstract concepts. The education system is failing both ends of the spectrum with this new objective

 

[Bubbaglide]

You are ignoring historic precedent. One of the more prominent being slave owners denying their slaves an education so as to "control" them.

No we are not at that level of control, but we are returning to the path to get their again.

Education is expected to be provided, not restricted.

Despite your delusions of some conspiracy, the action in Virginia just happened and is real. Virginia's children are literally being held back from attaining an higher education, if they are ready for it, simply to not embarrass those that cannot keep up.

What of those children in between. They are not seeing the advanced math until the last moment. If they fail a class on the first try, they risk not graduating with their classmates of 18 years, just because they couldn't take the class again before graduation.

Attaining an education should ALWAYS be encouraged, not discouraged.

somebody had to bring race into the discussion. Thanks for playing. Opportunity should be given all students.

 

[BigWillieCock]

With due respect, your post is an inaccurate oversimplification of what VA is trying to do. The goal of revamping the state's curriculum is to actually increase, not lower, the amount of students taking advanced math courses in 11th and 12th grades by introducing advanced math concepts to ALL students in earlier grades rather than just to the ones who previously would have been tracked into the "honors" level classes (i.e., to make the lower level math curriculum more robust or at least more varied, not less). Algebra and geometry will actually be integrated into earlier grades (for some kids, geometry/trigonometry make more functional sense than algebra, so it appears the idea make the instruction less concept-linear so that kids can continue to advance in their studies and get to the point where many of them can take advanced courses their junior and senior years).

But yeah, it's much easier to read the first paragraph from a slanted source and conclude that educators, who as a group generally work their rears off for very little thanks and even less compensation to try to lift students up from wherever they're starting, are working to make kids dumber.

Henry County Public Schools will overhaul math instruction for the first time 'since the 1800s'

The traditional alignment of students and classes will change.

martinsvillebulletin.com

You were in fact respectful in your disagreement and I will respond with respect.

You posted “your post is an inaccurate oversimplification of what VA is trying to do.”

My response-

Leslie Sale, director of the Virginia Education Department's office of policy “This is about ... how and where graduation requirements can operate as a lever for equity. So, first, we're going to start with...the possibility of consolidating the standard and advanced studies diploma."

The majority of advanced-diploma earners in 2019 were Asian (79%) and White (63%), according to Sale's presentation. Among minority students, 44% of Hispanic learners, 40% of Black students and 35% of "economically disadvantaged" students received advanced degrees.

So I guess it’s all the Asian’s fault. Although odd that 4 of 10 black students and 1/3 of economically disadvantaged students somehow got by in this horribly inequitable system.

Did you know that they already reduced the types of advanced diplomas from 6 to 3 in 2011 to “close the equity gap”?

So explain to me how removing advanced classes and diplomas is helping that cause?


Though you were mostly respectful you seem to assert I only read a headline. In fact I read 3 articles to try and see the story from all the spin angles.

I understand your point on the flashy headline like “Trump incites sedition”. We do unfortunately live in that society right and left.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

somebody had to bring race into the discussion. Thanks for playing. Opportunity should be given all students.

You are the one bringing "race" into the thread. Reread my post. It was in a historic context, including slaves of every race and time period.

 

[gamecox4982]

There will be a uptick in private school enrollment

 

[PabloSC]

Dumbing down the masses! All a part of their plan to control. I fear it is too late to stop it at this point....

Yes, it is too late. We are a country of Socialist/Marxist now, but no one yet realizes it, and when they do, the media will cover it up.

 

[Dizzy01]

You are ignoring historic precedent. One of the more prominent being slave owners denying their slaves an education so as to "control" them.

No we are not at that level of control, but we are returning to the path to get their again.

Education is expected to be provided, not restricted.

Despite your delusions of some conspiracy, the action in Virginia just happened and is real. Virginia's children are literally being held back from attaining an higher education, if they are ready for it, simply to not embarrass those that cannot keep up.

What of those children in between. They are not seeing the advanced math until the last moment. If they fail a class on the first try, they risk not graduating with their classmates of 18 years, just because they couldn't take the class again before graduation.

Attaining an education should ALWAYS be encouraged, not discouraged.

So your argument is that instead of building foundations to help make sure kids are truly ready for the advanced classes before placement they should just keep cramming them in there and figure out if they were ready or not when they fail a class.

 

[MookieBlaylock9]

Ah yes, the infamous "they" and the extremely vague threat of "control" - with the concession that there is real fear that nothing can be done. You sir win internet conspiracy theory bingo for today!

Shouldn't we strive to have public education like Virginia? I am sure there is more to this story as usual, but I love a good contrived outrage story.

 

[duckcock2.0.0]

From reading the article provided and knowing nothing more about this, my initial question would be, why can't they do both? Or is that an option?

To answer my own question, apparently it is not an option.

Dumb.

 

[Bubbaglide]

You are the one bringing "race" into the thread. Reread my post. It was in a historic context, including slaves of every race and time period.

Race wasn't mentioned until you did. NO ONE. The proposal isn't aimed toward any race but lower achievers. i don't support suppressing gifted students in any group

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

With due respect, your post is an inaccurate oversimplification of what VA is trying to do. The goal of revamping the state's curriculum is to actually increase, not lower, the amount of students taking advanced math courses in 11th and 12th grades by introducing advanced math concepts to ALL students in earlier grades rather than just to the ones who previously would have been tracked into the "honors" level classes (i.e., to make the lower level math curriculum more robust or at least more varied, not less). Algebra and geometry will actually be integrated into earlier grades (for some kids, geometry/trigonometry make more functional sense than algebra, so it appears the idea make the instruction less concept-linear so that kids can continue to advance in their studies and get to the point where many of them can take advanced courses their junior and senior years).

But yeah, it's much easier to read the first paragraph from a slanted source and conclude that educators, who as a group generally work their rears off for very little thanks and even less compensation to try to lift students up from wherever they're starting, are working to make kids dumber.

Henry County Public Schools will overhaul math instruction for the first time 'since the 1800s'

The traditional alignment of students and classes will change.

martinsvillebulletin.com

Mic dropped

 

[BigWillieCock]

Mic dropped

Perhaps you should also read my reply and answer the proposed questions before asserting mic drop status.

 

[JohnnySolo]

Advanced classes were a chance to get out of class with idiots and trouble makers. Sounds like a chance for less fortunate to be better by dragging the more fortunate down. Hey I'm #1 because everyone else lost. Yeah

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

Perhaps you should also read my reply and answer the proposed questions before asserting mic drop status.

I don’t think you followed the proposal or what he wrote about it. You are still asserting that advanced curriculum is being removed when it is actually being more evenly distributed to a wider range of students than just those few who qualify for advanced courses at an early age. Your question is invalid if you understand what is actually going on, thus there is no reasonable response to it.

 

[BigWillieCock]

I don’t think you followed the proposal or what he wrote about it. You are still asserting that advanced curriculum is being removed when it is actually being more evenly distributed to a wider range of students than just those few who qualify for advanced courses at an early age. Your question is invalid if you understand what is actually going on, thus there is no reasonable response to it.

So reducing diplomas is evenly distributing. Got it.

Can you evenly distribute your next paycheck with me then?

 

[feeble2001]

With due respect, your post is an inaccurate oversimplification of what VA is trying to do. The goal of revamping the state's curriculum is to actually increase, not lower, the amount of students taking advanced math courses in 11th and 12th grades by introducing advanced math concepts to ALL students in earlier grades rather than just to the ones who previously would have been tracked into the "honors" level classes (i.e., to make the lower level math curriculum more robust or at least more varied, not less). Algebra and geometry will actually be integrated into earlier grades (for some kids, geometry/trigonometry make more functional sense than algebra, so it appears the idea make the instruction less concept-linear so that kids can continue to advance in their studies and get to the point where many of them can take advanced courses their junior and senior years).

But yeah, it's much easier to read the first paragraph from a slanted source and conclude that educators, who as a group generally work their rears off for very little thanks and even less compensation to try to lift students up from wherever they're starting, are working to make kids dumber.

Henry County Public Schools will overhaul math instruction for the first time 'since the 1800s'

The traditional alignment of students and classes will change.

martinsvillebulletin.com

This is correct, I love when people have outrage about something conpletely inaccurate

it’s very ironic that there are posts about people claiming “THEY ARE DUMBING DOWN OUR SOCIETY” and they can’t be bothered to actually read what they are losing their mind over

 

[Dizzy01]

I know it’s not cool to actually research things before being outraged but the process they are putting in place not only expands access to advanced classes it also creates additional advanced class opportunities. It’s also not something that Virginia developed but rather the program is a result of a multi year study by math professionals who are wanting to capture how math has changed and whether or not Algebra is even useful in many of the advanced math opportunities that exist today.

 

[feeble2001]

So reducing diplomas is evenly distributing. Got it.

Can you evenly distribute your next paycheck with me then?

Please explain how this makes sense because its so clear you have no idea what you are talking about

 

[feeble2001]

Seriously I can’t get over how perfect it is some posters are claiming the government is trying to make us dumb while displaying pure ignorance about what is actually happening

 

[duckcock2.0.0]

What are the drawbacks for letting those that have shown a propensity towards math to pursue those advanced classes earlier while still allowing others to participate in the new curriculum?

 

[feeble2001]

What are the drawbacks for letting those that have shown a propensity towards math to pursue those advanced classes earlier while still allowing others to participate in the new curriculum?

Simply put there are only so many classes a teacher can teach and there is a huge shortage of STEM focused teachers.

Also most gifted students are in certain program and tracts that are pretty intricately designed to keep students in classes together and working with the limited scheduling teachers have

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

So reducing diplomas is evenly distributing. Got it.

Can you evenly distribute your next paycheck with me then?

Nothing about that is comparable.

 

[duckcock2.0.0]

Simply put there are only so many classes a teacher can teach and there is a huge shortage of STEM focused teachers.

Also most gifted students are in certain program and tracts that are pretty intricately designed to keep students in classes together and working with the limited scheduling teachers have

So it is their belief that by abandoning those gifted tracts, at least where math is concerned, that they will be able to identify more students later in the process that would qualify for advanced math courses in 11th and 12th grades....whereas, if they kept the current curriculum, those students would never be identified?

That is my rudimentary understanding of it, but I'm not an educator, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[feeble2001]

So it is their belief that by abandoning those gifted tracts, at least where math is concerned, that they will be able to identify more students later in the process that would qualify for advanced math courses in 11th and 12th grades....whereas, if they kept the current curriculum, those students would never be identified?

That is my rudimentary understanding of it, but I'm not an educator, so maybe I'm wrong.

Basically yeah, and it’s a common thing students for whatever reason (bad previous educators, late development, taking school more seriously) are often forced to take classes below their ability because they don’t “qualify” traditionally and/or their current schedule/tract is full.

the students that excel in math early will still be able to take all the classes they want/need

 

[feeble2001]

For example I had one student I tried to put in an elevated program because previously he never had a teacher push him - and he was absolutely crushing all the material I threw at him.

i told him to apply for honors, told the school that I recommended him - and because of logistics, they wouldn’t let him