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Well, our Poor

Position:

"Billionaires pay all the taxes"


Proposal:

Increase the top marginal rate

Then...

"They just pass the taxes on to everyone else. Billionaires don't pay any taxes"


Your principes are as flexible as an Olympic gymnast.

Some things for the Low IQ crowd who suddenly has decided to bang the Billionaire drum since they all fled from their party of choice.

1) Elon Musk paid $11 Billion in 2021 - The most income taxes of any American. Most billionaires pay a ton of taxes. However, there are tax loopholes that could be closed but the Democrats have never chosen to do this. Why? Because they coddle their billionaires just like everyone else.



2) Many Billionaires also employ a ton of people who pay a ton of taxes. Do you want to tax them at 70-80% and have them move their operations elsewhere Bernie?

3) It will likely turn out that what we pay to the Federal Government for Income Taxes is Fugazzi. The game is far larger than what we pay in and MANY leaders and economists have stated this over the years.



 
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The IRS was and is deeply understaffed. Tens of thousands of retirements and the inability and funding to replace employees.

Trump's own IRS Commissioner advocated for drastic increases in IRS funding to replace employees that had left, especially customer focusing employees.

He testified to Congress a number of times talking about businesses and individuals complaining and raising hell about waiting on communications from the IRS - some for up to a year or more. He blamed that on staff shortages due to retirements and antiquated technology at the agency.
That makes no sense at all. The $85 billion were INCREASES in the budget. Employees who retired were already in the budget. There was already money there for replacements. This funding is not for replacements but is additional funding for new employees. The figure given was 85,000 new employees. There is no way the IRS was under staffed by 85,000 people. That is total nonsense.
 
That makes no sense at all. The $85 billion were INCREASES in the budget. Employees who retired were already in the budget. There was already money there for replacements. This funding is not for replacements but is additional funding for new employees. The figure given was 85,000 new employees. There is no way the IRS was under staffed by 85,000 people. That is total nonsense.
Fire em all. Half of em haven’t paid their own taxes. Bunch of criminal hacks. Lock em up!
 
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That makes no sense at all. The $85 billion were INCREASES in the budget. Employees who retired were already in the budget. There was already money there for replacements. This funding is not for replacements but is additional funding for new employees. The figure given was 85,000 new employees. There is no way the IRS was under staffed by 85,000 people. That is total nonsense.

Just because 85k is a lot of people, doesn't mean the IRS wasn't understaffed. The 85k was over the course of 10 years.

Republicans intentionally underfunded the IRS to prevent it from being able to properly do its job. The IRS is literally using technology from the 70s.
 
Just because 85k is a lot of people, doesn't mean the IRS wasn't understaffed. The 85k was over the course of 10 years.

Republicans intentionally underfunded the IRS to prevent it from being able to properly do its job. The IRS is literally using technology from the 70s.
In 2021 the IRS had approximately 79,000 employees. Adding 85,000 new positions represents a 207% increase. This kind of increase in the workforce is unreasonable by any measure. This is just another example of government run amok.

Also, the tech problems at the IRS are of their own making. They did upgrade their systems in the late 90s but the systems they upgraded to were inadequate and were outdated by the time they got them up and running. This kind of incompetence is unacceptable and costs the taxpayers lots of money.
 
In 2021 the IRS had approximately 79,000 employees. Adding 85,000 new positions represents a 207% increase. This kind of increase in the workforce is unreasonable by any measure. This is just another example of government run amok.

So it's unreasonable purely based on the number of employees and not based on the quantity of work?

It's a shame you don't realize why that's illogical.
Also, the tech problems at the IRS are of their own making. They did upgrade their systems in the late 90s but the systems they upgraded to were inadequate and were outdated by the time they got them up and running. This kind of incompetence is unacceptable and costs the taxpayers lots of money.

lol arguing about technology updates from 30 years ago?

Another shame you don't realize that's illogical.
 


Interesting projection. Would make sense why all the tech bros who hated Trump previously are all in with him right now.
 
Trump taking care of business at Davos. Making America proud again. Bringing us from the brink of destruction to the top economic country in the world in 3 days. That’s how it’s done!

That Billionaire's Club is at the heart of the matter. Their entire objective was total control and they had hand selected the individuals who they would shower with gifts to accomplish their objective which was based around population control.

Biden, Trudeau, Newsom, Gates etc. -- all part of the club. Even Nikki Haley was in the mix. So glad we are shutting the door on that madness.
 
Trump is roasting the WEF cult.

We are so back. :)

I loved watching the Q & A session this morning. He definitely let the entire world know he means business as far as tariffs, climate change, and EU interference in business project approvals. Also put the EU on notice that if they continue to fine U.S. companies they will end up paying a heavy price in additional tariffs.
 
In 2021 the IRS had approximately 79,000 employees. Adding 85,000 new positions represents a 207% increase. This kind of increase in the workforce is unreasonable by any measure. This is just another example of government run amok.

Also, the tech problems at the IRS are of their own making. They did upgrade their systems in the late 90s but the systems they upgraded to were inadequate and were outdated by the time they got them up and running. This kind of incompetence is unacceptable and costs the taxpayers lots of money.

They wanted to make Americans even more tethered to government and have 85,000 new agents pay for their salaries by chasing down waitresses and the like for taxes on their tips.

This is what people like Watson don't get.

Yesterday's liberal would have hated such a measure.

Today's embraces it with open arms.

They are just too oblivious to do the math.
 
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So it's unreasonable purely based on the number of employees and not based on the quantity of work?

It's a shame you don't realize why that's illogical.


lol arguing about technology updates from 30 years ago?

Another shame you don't realize that's illogical.
Yes it is unreasonable considering this is more employees than the agency has EVER had by a large margin. Did you even think to consider how this number was even arrive at? What was the basis? At first it was argued that these were replacements, but that was obviously a lie since you don't have to use new money to replace money already in the budget.

You said they were using 70s technology, when they upgraded in the 90s. The point I was making is that regardless of when it was done they are incompetent. Why should we give them more money to waste?

I had an IRS agent tell me on the phone one time that adding 2 numbers together and dividing by 2 was not the same thing as averaging the numbers. Another one when responding to my inquiry as to why they didn't have a document told me, "you have to understand that we have people who are trained to open the mail." These people are total idiots.
 
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Yes it is unreasonable considering this is more employees than the agency has EVER had by a large margin. Did you even think to consider how this number was even arrive at? What was the basis? At first it was argued that these were replacements, but that was obviously a lie since you don't have to use new money to replace money already in the budget.

A DeeDave said, even Trump's own commissioner stated they needed the workers. I would trust the IRS who hasn't been able to adequately do their job because they're understaffed over a guy saying they aren't understaffed just because they want to hire a bunch of people.

You said they were using 70s technology, when they upgraded in the 90s. The point I was making is that regardless of when it was done they are incompetent. Why should we give them more money to waste?

The facts show they were still using 70s technology in cases. Did they upgrade some systems? Probably. Was it a completely overhaul? Absolutely not.

I had an IRS agent tell me on the phone one time that adding 2 numbers together and dividing by 2 was not the same thing as averaging the numbers. Another one when responding to my inquiry as to why they didn't have a document told me, "you have to understand that we have people who are trained to open the mail." These people are total idiots.

If true, sure does sound like they need more and better agents. That's why your argument is so outlandish. You keep saying you've experienced the IRS being dysfunctional and yet you're saying they don't need more employees to become functional.
 
That Billionaire's Club is at the heart of the matter. Their entire objective was total control and they had hand selected the individuals who they would shower with gifts to accomplish their objective which was based around population control.

Biden, Trudeau, Newsom, Gates etc. -- all part of the club. Even Nikki Haley was in the mix. So glad we are shutting the door on that madness.
Amen Brother!
 
A DeeDave said, even Trump's own commissioner stated they needed the workers. I would trust the IRS who hasn't been able to adequately do their job because they're understaffed over a guy saying they aren't understaffed just because they want to hire a bunch of people.
That's rich. Any other time you would be arguing Trump's people were terrible. I don't give a rat's ass what the commissioner says, the facts and logic say different. And, you actually TRUST the IRS? I don't think there is anything we can do to help you.
The facts show they were still using 70s technology in cases. Did they upgrade some systems? Probably. Was it a completely overhaul? Absolutely not.
I see you completely misunderstand the argument even after it was explained to you. I can explain it but I can't make you understand it.


If true, sure does sound like they need more and better agents. That's why your argument is so outlandish. You keep saying you've experienced the IRS being dysfunctional and yet you're saying they don't need more employees to become functional.
What a dumbass statement to make. Since they hire incompetent people, your answer is to hire more? How about we just disband the wasteful and incompetent agency?
 
I don't give a rat's ass what the commissioner says, the facts and logic say different

That's the problem, you're not using logic. Literally no one arguing in good faith would argue that the IRS isn't understaffed.

For perspective, Tesla brings in 97 billion a year with a workforce of 140,000. The IRS collects 5.1 trillion with a workforce of roughly 100k.

Your argument relies on literally being brain dead.
 
They wanted to make Americans even more tethered to government and have 85,000 new agents pay for their salaries by chasing down waitresses and the like for taxes on their tips.

This is what people like Watson don't get.

Yesterday's liberal would have hated such a measure.

Today's embraces it with open arms.

They are just too oblivious to do the math.
Don't forget that all 85,000 were to be armed for some reason.
 
That's the problem, you're not using logic. Literally no one arguing in good faith would argue that the IRS isn't understaffed.

For perspective, Tesla brings in 97 billion a year with a workforce of 140,000. The IRS collects 5.1 trillion with a workforce of roughly 100k.

Your argument relies on literally being brain dead.
Speaking of brain dead, you really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. These two organizations are not comparable. Tesla is a manufacturing company that produces a product. That product is made by its employees. The IRS does not produce a product. Its employees bring in very little of the revenue. This shows how little you know about our tax system. We have what is known as a voluntary compliance system. The revenues are sent in by the taxpayers who are complying with their obligations. The employees at the IRS have little to do with this. They are processors. They have nothing to do with the estimated tax payments I mail in each quarter other than to deposit the money and record it. And they sometimes do a lousy job at that.

In 2012 there were 90,250 IRS employees. The IRS brought in $2.5 T. In 2022 they had 79,070 employees and brought in $4.9 T. So we are bringing in more money with less employees. Using your logic we should fire 11,000 employees and we would bring in $7.4 T. But that's not how it works. There is no relationship between the number of employees and the amount of revenues collected.
 
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Speaking of brain dead, you really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. These two organizations are not comparable. Tesla is a manufacturing company that produces a product. That product is made by its employees. The IRS does not produce a product. Its employees bring in very little of the revenue. This shows how little you know about our tax system. We have what is known as a voluntary compliance system. The revenues are sent in by the taxpayers who are complying with their obligations. The employees at the IRS have little to do with this. They are processors. They have nothing to do with the estimated tax payments I mail in each quarter other than to deposit the money and record it. And they sometimes do a lousy job at that.

In 2012 there were 90,250 IRS employees. The IRS brought in $2.5 T. In 2022 they had 79,070 employees and brought in $4.9 T. So we are bringing in more money with less employees. Using your logic we should fire 11,000 employees and we would bring in $7.4 T. But that's not how it works. There is no relationship between the number of employees and the amount of revenues collected.
Well said. You should get a write off for tutoring this moron. Should be worth a couple of hundred a hour Because he’s very, very slow and probably will never get it
 
Speaking of brain dead, you really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. These two organizations are not comparable. Tesla is a manufacturing company that produces a product. That product is made by its employees. The IRS does not produce a product. Its employees bring in very little of the revenue. This shows how little you know about our tax system. We have what is known as a voluntary compliance system. The revenues are sent in by the taxpayers who are complying with their obligations. The employees at the IRS have little to do with this. They are processors. They have nothing to do with the estimated tax payments I mail in each quarter other than to deposit the money and record it. And they sometimes do a lousy job at that.

What's it like being so intellectually dishonest? Processing 271 million tax returns and other forms is little to no work?

Can I compare Walmart and Tesla considering one is a manufacturer and the other is a distributor? Or can comparisons only work if two companies do the exact same thing?

In 2012 there were 90,250 IRS employees. The IRS brought in $2.5 T. In 2022 they had 79,070 employees and brought in $4.9 T. So we are bringing in more money with less employees. Using your logic we should fire 11,000 employees and we would bring in $7.4 T. But that's not how it works. There is no relationship between the number of employees and the amount of revenues collected.

This analogy just shows how much you're missing the point.
 
Well said. You should get a write off for tutoring this moron. Should be worth a couple of hundred a hour Because he’s very, very slow and probably will never get it

Says the guy who still hasn't admitted he was wrong about the FEMA video yesterday...

Unsurprising you lack the integrity to own your mistakes.
 
What's it like being so intellectually dishonest? Processing 271 million tax returns and other forms is little to no work?
Bingo! You said the right word: "PROCESSING". Maybe with a little more work you will finally get it. You weren't arguing how much work they do. You were talking about how much revenue they bring in. Since you were corrected on that I guess you had to change your narrative.
Can I compare Walmart and Tesla considering one is a manufacturer and the other is a distributor? Or can comparisons only work if two companies do the exact same thing?
One thing is for sure. You cannot compare a manufacturing company to a government agency. Totally apples and oranges.
This analogy just shows how much you're missing the point.
No, it shows how little you understand about the IRS and how it operates and what it does.
 
That makes no sense at all. The $85 billion were INCREASES in the budget. Employees who retired were already in the budget. There was already money there for replacements. This funding is not for replacements but is additional funding for new employees. The figure given was 85,000 new employees. There is no way the IRS was under staffed by 85,000 people. That is total nonsense.

Your ignorance is unmatched by few.

"The 87,000 IRS agents figure comes from a U.S. Treasury Department estimate of the level of hiring needed to maintain IRS efficiency and keep up with retirements and other staff declines over at least a 10 year period. "

The IRS has disputed the 87,000 number and repeatedly stated that was an estimate based on staffing levels and expected retirements.

"The majority of the hires would fill positions of people leaving the agency over the next decade" said former IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig. We have approximately 52,000 employees that will be retiring or leaving within 10 years so we have to be prepared"

Rettig wrote in his letter that the IRS has “fewer front-line, experienced examiners in the field than at any time since World War II, and fewer employees than at any time since the 1970s.”

National Taxpayer Advocate Erin M. Collins said in her midyear report to Congress, published in June 2022, that many of the challenges the IRS is facing “stem from inadequate staffing, including limited staffing in Submission Processing and telephone call centers.”

Bloomberg Tax’s Erin Slowey spoke with Charles Rettig, a shareholder at Chamberlain Hrdlicka, on why the IRS needs its funding and how a new commissioner could shake up the agency. Rettig, who served as commissioner during the first Trump administration, also addressed what he is telling his clients amid the uncertainty.

 
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Just because 85k is a lot of people, doesn't mean the IRS wasn't understaffed. The 85k was over the course of 10 years.

Republicans intentionally underfunded the IRS to prevent it from being able to properly do its job. The IRS is literally using technology from the 70s.

Charles Rettig wrote in his letter to Congress that the IRS has “fewer front-line, experienced examiners in the field than at any time since World War II, and fewer employees than at any time since the 1970s.”

Rettig was picked by Trump.
 
Bingo! You said the right word: "PROCESSING". Maybe with a little more work you will finally get it. You weren't arguing how much work they do. You were talking about how much revenue they bring in. Since you were corrected on that I guess you had to change your narrative.
No, a normal (and intellectually honest) person realizes that an agency responsible for processing and auditing 5.1 trillion in revenue comes with a lot of work.

You on the other hand, are trying to arguing that they don't do anything.

One thing is for sure. You cannot compare a manufacturing company to a government agency. Totally apples and oranges.
Only if you're being intellectually dishonest. Just because a government agency doesn't charge a price for its service, it still has work to do.

No, it shows how little you understand about the IRS and how it operates and what it does.

lol
 
In 2021 the IRS had approximately 79,000 employees. Adding 85,000 new positions represents a 207% increase. This kind of increase in the workforce is unreasonable by any measure. This is just another example of government run amok.

The IRS is a government agency. People leave and retire.

If no one ever left and no one ever retired, your math still wouldn't work, but at least it would be worth a little. Instead, it doesn't work at all because we live in reality and agencies and employers lose people all the time for various reasons.

people die
people retire
People leave
People get other jobs
People quit

The IRS, per the last 2 leaders of the agency, have repeatedly said they expect over 50,000 retirements or people leaving the agency in the next 10 years. They have said their workforce is older than most.

The "85,000" positions was an estimate made in 1 report. It was never meant to be a certainly. The IRS has never said there would be that many new hires over the course of a decade. They have said that is unknowable due to the increase funding they are putting toward technology so that don't know how many employees they will need.

There was NEVER a possibility they were going to go out and hire 85,000 people all of a sudden, regardless of what your favorite talk show hosts, podcast hosts, or politician said. The IRS never said they would do that. The leaders of the agency never said they would do that. People made it up.

Your opinion is based on nothing but your imagination.

 
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How stupid.

They weren't.

More evidence that you listened to a fool or a group of fools that had no idea in the world what they were talking about.

The need for 87,000 new IRS agents was more Biden BS.

No one cares how many quotes they got from self-serving individuals.

It got shot down because it was ridiculous and going to target middle and low income individuals.

Let's not do another childish "Salary Cap" sand throw.

End of story.
 
During the Trump administration, as audit rates on high-income taxpayers fell, the share of audits on taxpayers with incomes under $200,000 increased.

In 2019, the top 1% of Americans was estimated to owe over one-fifth of unpaid taxes, leaving ordinary Americans to shoulder the burden."

The IRS is pursuing 125,000 wealthy taxpayers who haven't filed taxes in years. With stronger enforcement, about 21,000 of those taxpayers have filed their returns over the last six months, paying $172 million in taxes, she added.

Those 21,000 taxpayers who have filed their taxes were the first to respond after the IRS reached out to alert them that they needed to file, according to a senior Treasury official who spoke on a conference call with reporters. The IRS is likely to recoup hundreds of millions more in new tax revenue from the remaining 104,000 people who still need to file, he said.

 
Those folks were laughing at him under their breath. He sounded like a lunatic. It was pretty funny.

Republicans have the Senate.

Republicans have the House.

Republicans have the President.

Republicans have the Supreme Court.

Go Home Gomer.

Come Back in 1500 Days and see if your Grift Party can find someone with a working Frontal Cortex.
 
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More evidence that you listened to a fool or a group of fools that had no idea in the world what they were talking about.



This video really just sums up the issue with the guys in this thread. It's just wild to me that they have zero shame in being wrong.

It just cements the divide in the country between the educated and the uneducated. I could never imagine sitting in class and being content with being the dumb kid in class. But these guys are proud of being that dumb kid.
 
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