Who had the toughest rebuild project at Carolina?

[CCUIrmo]

Martin following the Horn era?
Muschamp following the Spurrier era?
Kingston following the Holbrook era?

I think in basketball it does not take as many players and so may be easier but Horn decimated the program on the way out the door.

Muschamp had to clean up Lorenzos mess on defense and recruit SEC caliber players in a time that Clemson was strong and Georgia got Kirby who is recruiting lights out.

Kingston may be toughest though. Holbrook got good players but I think had them mentally so messed up that Kingston cant fix that on some in a season. Plus alot play summer ball which means different hitting instructors, and pitching coaches and all do it differently. He has players with ability but if something goes wrong they are shot mentally due to how it went under Chad (which I heard it was not a very constructive teaching environment behind the scenes).
They all have/had alot of work to do, and I think will do it well, but who had the toughest job?

 

[jbouton]

Martin following the Horn era?
Muschamp following the Spurrier era?
Kingston following the Holbrook era?

I think in basketball it does not take as many players and so may be easier but Horn decimated the program on the way out the door.

Muschamp had to clean up Lorenzos mess on defense and recruit SEC caliber players in a time that Clemson was strong and Georgia got Kirby who is recruiting lights out.

Kingston may be toughest though. Holbrook got good players but I think had them mentally so messed up that Kingston cant fix that on some in a season. Plus alot play summer ball which means different hitting instructors, and pitching coaches and all do it differently. He has players with ability but if something goes wrong they are shot mentally due to how it went under Chad (which I heard it was not a very constructive teaching environment behind the scenes).
They all have/had alot of work to do, and I think will do it well, but who had the toughest job?

I don't know anything about the teaching environment under the previous staff. However that is what our previous staff will need time with. They will eventually get their methods taught and the players will produce.

 

[robertfootball]

Horn didn't have years to run the program into the ground, it wasn't really anything to write home about before he got here. He just made it bad to worse.

Kingston is taking over from a guy that didn't have a clue and had years to implement his buffoonery. I would have liked to have pulled the plug two years ago on Holbrook but what's done is done.

 

[Crutcher1]

Horn didn't have years to run the program into the ground, it wasn't really anything to write home about before he got here. He just made it bad to worse.

Kingston is taking over from a guy that didn't have a clue and had years to implement his buffoonery. I would have liked to have pulled the plug two years ago on Holbrook but what's done is done.

Basketball was not "bad" when Horne got here. He inherited an NIT team with two all-conference players, won 20 games his first year and beat Kentucky twice. They may not have been real good, but they certainly were not "bad". He left it, if I am not mistaken, with four scholarship players, none of whom were above average.

 

[Crutcher1]

Horn didn't have years to run the program into the ground, it wasn't really anything to write home about before he got here. He just made it bad to worse.

Kingston is taking over from a guy that didn't have a clue and had years to implement his buffoonery. I would have liked to have pulled the plug two years ago on Holbrook but what's done is done.

And, if I remember correctly, weren't Horne and Holbrook here the same number of years?

 

[Jon Snow]

Martin following the Horn era?
Muschamp following the Spurrier era?
Kingston following the Holbrook era?

I think in basketball it does not take as many players and so may be easier but Horn decimated the program on the way out the door.

Muschamp had to clean up Lorenzos mess on defense and recruit SEC caliber players in a time that Clemson was strong and Georgia got Kirby who is recruiting lights out.

Kingston may be toughest though. Holbrook got good players but I think had them mentally so messed up that Kingston cant fix that on some in a season. Plus alot play summer ball which means different hitting instructors, and pitching coaches and all do it differently. He has players with ability but if something goes wrong they are shot mentally due to how it went under Chad (which I heard it was not a very constructive teaching environment behind the scenes).
They all have/had alot of work to do, and I think will do it well, but who had the toughest job?

By far, Martin had the toughest job. Basketball was depleted of talent, there was no strong history to quickly rebuild the recruiting base, and the fans generally didn’t care about the program.
For Kingston, the talent isn’t great but he does have some good pieces here and there. However, the program has a history that allows it to quickly rebuild under good recruiting and good;players will want to come here. And of course, baseball gets huge support at USC.

 

[Rod Dangerfield]

Martin inherited the biggest mess of the 3.

 

[midline]

Football is the toughest. Especially when talking about totally rebuilding in the SEC. Even if Florida and UT weren't their usual selves. One, or two, recruits in basketball can change things quickly. At USC in baseball, even though things have slipped a bit, you still have a tradition to recruit to. Football takes a lot of good recruits. Add to that you are sitting just a couple of hours from your rival who is reeling in recruits at will, and another rival in UGA that is doing the same thing.

 

[funktavious]

Martin following the Horn era?
Muschamp following the Spurrier era?
Kingston following the Holbrook era?

I think in basketball it does not take as many players and so may be easier but Horn decimated the program on the way out the door.

Muschamp had to clean up Lorenzos mess on defense and recruit SEC caliber players in a time that Clemson was strong and Georgia got Kirby who is recruiting lights out.

Kingston may be toughest though. Holbrook got good players but I think had them mentally so messed up that Kingston cant fix that on some in a season. Plus alot play summer ball which means different hitting instructors, and pitching coaches and all do it differently. He has players with ability but if something goes wrong they are shot mentally due to how it went under Chad (which I heard it was not a very constructive teaching environment behind the scenes).
They all have/had alot of work to do, and I think will do it well, but who had the toughest job?

It may not take as many players in basketball but recruiting in basketball is so much more difficult. There are fewer quality players available and in baseball and football, recruiting out of the SEC has its advantages. We've struggled to get basketball players that are right in the Columbia area, no matter who we've had coaching. Our football program is promoted heavily throughout the state and there is a lot of support. The basketball team doesn't get the same support. When I talk basketball with people I find, within the state, a lot of fans of the blue blooded teams. How is it that we have so many Kentucky, Tarheel, and Duke fans that were born and raised in SC? Even when I was a kid, there were a lot of Georgetown fans but none of the kids I went to school with ever talked about Gamecock basketball. The culture around the state needs a change and I think a lot of that goes into promoting our basketball team stronger than we do.

 

[martwing]

I know you didn't list her, but Dawn's rebuilding challenge ranks right up there with the rest. Plus people cared about those other sports. Dawn began with like almost zero fan base.

 

[hobcawcreekcock]

I'll say this, Horn and Holbrook were disastrous hires. One took over a decent program and ran it in the ground, and one took over the best program in college baseball and drove the SOB in the ditch.

 

[stevestrat2]

Martin, but Holtz had a bigger mess

 

[82nd airborne]

Martin inherited 1 decent player........Bruce Ellinton!! Horn disgraced himself by asking players to leave. Martin's a great basketball coach!

 

[coolcock2001]

Muschamp took over in better position than any Carolina football coach ever. The roster wasn't in great shape but the facilities and stature of the program were way beyond anything we had before

 

[winloseortie]

Horne by far...... the players that Frank inherited would have finished 5th in the SOCON and 3rd in the MEAC

 

[Cock-Vader]

By far, Martin had the toughest job. Basketball was depleted of talent, there was no strong history to quickly rebuild the recruiting base, and the fans generally didn’t care about the program.
For Kingston, the talent isn’t great but he does have some good pieces here and there. However, the program has a history that allows it to quickly rebuild under good recruiting and good;players will want to come here. And of course, baseball gets huge support at USC.

This! It's not close. Not only did Martin inherit an awful team, Horne convinced what little talent WAS on the team to transfer after he was fired.

 

[CockofEarle]

Martin, but Holtz had a bigger mess

holtz is ancient history 2 many on here & he had no o-line

 

[Kitchenlabs]

After Buscher left during the season last year, I knew there was bad shit going down. However we are seeing now just how bad, and I am pretty shocked.

 

[heavycock]

This baseball season is starting to remind me of Holtz's first season I'm afraid.

Maybe someone can photoshop a mashup of Holbroke's and Fat Bradstard's face and send it to Rod.

 

[lawcalcock]

No contest.. Dawn Staley started from scratch... There were no players nor fans... Muschamp had a tremendous mountain to climb.. Football competition in the SEC is unbelievable.. It takes so many players and so much development to get it done... Dawn started with less.. But Muschamp had the biggest challenge

 

[CockofEarle]

No contest.. Dawn Staley started from scratch... There were no players nor fans... Muschamp had a tremendous mountain to climb.. Football competition in the SEC is unbelievable.. It takes so many players and so much development to get it done... Dawn started with less.. But Muschamp had the biggest challenge

pam started from scratch

 

[FWB4294]

LOU hands down . He inherited a team that not only had no talent but a team full of bad attitudes and me first guys . He had to clean house and start over from scratch .

 

[ken in sacramento]

Holtz. Not even close.

 

[jonesz21]

Martin following the Horn era?
Muschamp following the Spurrier era?
Kingston following the Holbrook era?

I think in basketball it does not take as many players and so may be easier but Horn decimated the program on the way out the door.

Muschamp had to clean up Lorenzos mess on defense and recruit SEC caliber players in a time that Clemson was strong and Georgia got Kirby who is recruiting lights out.

Kingston may be toughest though. Holbrook got good players but I think had them mentally so messed up that Kingston cant fix that on some in a season. Plus alot play summer ball which means different hitting instructors, and pitching coaches and all do it differently. He has players with ability but if something goes wrong they are shot mentally due to how it went under Chad (which I heard it was not a very constructive teaching environment behind the scenes).
They all have/had alot of work to do, and I think will do it well, but who had the toughest job?

Lou holtz had the toughest job of them all

 

[Rod Dangerfield]

This baseball season is starting to remind me of Holtz's first season I'm afraid.

Maybe someone can photoshop a mashup of Holbroke's and Fat Bradstard's face and send it to Rod.

I know Holbroke was horrendously bad, but no one compares to Fat Bradstard. Not even Newton or Horn.

 

[Coyote89]

Martin following the Horn era?
Muschamp following the Spurrier era?
Kingston following the Holbrook era?

I think in basketball it does not take as many players and so may be easier but Horn decimated the program on the way out the door.

Muschamp had to clean up Lorenzos mess on defense and recruit SEC caliber players in a time that Clemson was strong and Georgia got Kirby who is recruiting lights out.

Kingston may be toughest though. Holbrook got good players but I think had them mentally so messed up that Kingston cant fix that on some in a season. Plus alot play summer ball which means different hitting instructors, and pitching coaches and all do it differently. He has players with ability but if something goes wrong they are shot mentally due to how it went under Chad (which I heard it was not a very constructive teaching environment behind the scenes).
They all have/had alot of work to do, and I think will do it well, but who had the toughest job?

Holtz following the Brad Scott era.

 

[ansoncock]

Coach FM following last year.

 

[Dingus MaGee]

Holtz had the worst. We were playing guys both ways when he got here.

 

[85alum#]

Lou Holtz, and, as was said, ain't even close. But Dawn Staley second IMO. She took over a sport no one cared about and turned it into a National Championship.

 

[pecock1]

Holtz following Fat Brad era

 

[atl-cock]

No personal opinion here - they all had tough jobs - but I'm enjoying reading this civil, spirited thread. Go Cocks.

 

[Brace1]

Definitely Lou Holtz. He had to move so many players into the right position, and he had to convince players to come here, after that horrendous 1-10 season by Brad Scott. Plus we didn’t have a rich football history to begin with and our facility’s wasn’t up to par. His biggest selling point at that time was our great fan base. How we sold out every game all though we we’re losing.

 

[MANAFOLD]

Martin following the Horn era?
Muschamp following the Spurrier era?
Kingston following the Holbrook era?

I think in basketball it does not take as many players and so may be easier but Horn decimated the program on the way out the door.

Muschamp had to clean up Lorenzos mess on defense and recruit SEC caliber players in a time that Clemson was strong and Georgia got Kirby who is recruiting lights out.

Kingston may be toughest though. Holbrook got good players but I think had them mentally so messed up that Kingston cant fix that on some in a season. Plus alot play summer ball which means different hitting instructors, and pitching coaches and all do it differently. He has players with ability but if something goes wrong they are shot mentally due to how it went under Chad (which I heard it was not a very constructive teaching environment behind the scenes).
They all have/had alot of work to do, and I think will do it well, but who had the toughest job?

Based on results and performance, Kingston by a mile. Some of it might have to do with Kingston but old Holbrook really made a mess of things the greatest of which might be creating a loser mentality.

 

[jonesz21]

Based on results and performance, Kingston by a mile. Some of it might have to do with Kingston but old Holbrook really made a mess of things the greatest of which might be creating a loser mentality.

Now the fans are ok with losing. That’s sad

 

[FWB4294]

Not naming names but I had a class with a bunch of Fat Brad Players . They would always come in twenty minutes late and clown and cut up and hollar at every girl they could . Well one day the professor had enough and when they rolled in late again his exact words were “ Well I shouldn’t expect you guys to show up on time when you can’t even beat Vandy, hell you guys haven’t shown up any Sat night this season” The whole class cracked up laughing and all three of the players stormed out and we never saw them again the entire semester . That for me was the epitome of what Lou had to clean up .

 

[treetop flier]

Holtz for sure. You can recruit 4 guys in basketball that can turn your program around. You can't do that in football

 

[funktavious]

Holtz for sure. You can recruit 4 guys in basketball that can turn your program around. You can't do that in football

But that is kinda what Holtz did. That first class he brought in took us from 0-11 to 8-4.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Muschamp took over in better position than any Carolina football coach ever. The roster wasn't in great shape but the facilities and stature of the program were way beyond anything we had before

All he had to do is win 4 games and that's all... But, he won 6 and played in a bowl game, which we had a chance to win...

 

[uscfutbol]

Dawn.............. Terrible team, terrible support, terrible facilities.............

 

[Benjdan1]

How about we change this to position coach challenge. Thompson taking over for Adams.