Beamer, just happy to be here.

[Lurker123]

What? We beat #8 CU in their stadium. The following week they blasted UNC for the ACC Championship.

Muschamp got demolished against CU for five straight years.

I won't bother to look, but most of those 5 years Clemson was in the playoffs and winning titles (twice), right?

This last years (and the year before) clemson team was not on that level.

But it was still a good accomplishment that exceeded expectations.

Seems to me, this a situation where there's truth to both sides.

 

[uscwatson21]

What? We beat #8 CU in their stadium. The following week they blasted UNC for the ACC Championship.

Clemson was not a great football team last year. They lost to two unranked teams, one of which beat them by 3 touchdowns. They carried that into this season losing to Duke and losing 3 out of 4 games.

Muschamp got demolished against CU for five straight years. The worst in school history by a mile.

Yeah because those teams were winning national championships and made the playoffs each of those 5 years. Its a silly comparison and hopefully you know that.

Don't you think your Beamer dislike is getting a little out of hand?

Don't you think that when you're intentionally ignoring the obvious it makes you look like you're either 1) being intentionally dumb or 2) don't really know much about the sport?

I would like to think you're just being intentionally dumb right now. But your positions may be better explained that you just genuinely don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Ward Jr]

I won't bother to look, but most of those 5 years Clemson was in the playoffs and winning titles (twice), right?

This last years (and the year before) clemson team was not on that level.

But it was still a good accomplishment that exceeded expectations.

Seems to me, this a situation where there's truth to both sides.

IMO, there's no comparison. It's impossible to even rate this performances b/c Muschamp didn't have a pulse in any of those games against CU.

Beamer beat #8 CU on their homefield and just had a pulse against 2x NC UGA on their homefield. He also blasted #5 UT.

I'm no Beamer evangelist until you drag Will Muschamp into the equation. I personally think there could be a case made for him being a ringer at UF and USC given how bad he was.

 

[uscwatson21]

IMO, there's no comparison. It's impossible to even rate this performances b/c Muschamp didn't have a pulse in any of those games against CU.

lol the 2018 Gamecocks would have boatraced the 2022 Tigers.

just had a pulse against 2x NC UGA on their homefield. He also blasted #5 UT.

Bentley threw for 500 yards against a team that ACTUALLY won a national championship. Now you're having a moral victory against a team that won't win the national championship this year.

It just shows how you're incapable of having an honest discussion.

 

[Ward Jr]

lol the 2018 Gamecocks would have boatraced the 2022 Tigers.




Bentley threw for 500 yards against a team that ACTUALLY won a national championship. Now you're having a moral victory against a team that won't win the national championship this year.

It just shows how you're incapable of having an honest discussion.

Do I need to throw out Muschamp stats against P5 over the course of his career at USC again?

You're 2018 comparison is complete conjecture.

In our last six games, we've played 5 ranked teams and been competitive in all of them. This includes 2 wins against top 10 opponents, a bowl game we should have won and a pretty close call against #1 last week.

Please let me know when a Will Muschamp team do anything close to that?

Muschamp also didn't have to deal with the NIL or a no-wait portal. He wasn't losing the Bells and Lloyds and still was horrific.

 

[Lurker123]

IMO, there's no comparison. It's impossible to even rate this performances b/c Muschamp didn't have a pulse in any of those games against CU.

Beamer beat #8 CU on their homefield and just had a pulse against 2x NC UGA on their homefield. He also blasted #5 UT.

I'm no Beamer evangelist until you drag Will Muschamp into the equation. I personally think there could be a case made for him being a ringer at UF and USC given how bad he was.

I certainly do remember some of those teamsnlacking more than just a pulse.

I didn't really intend to wade into the Beamer vs Muschamp thing. I was just pretty confident Clemson has had a major drop off these last two years. Meaning I can't compare them vs Clemson as I think they faced very different teams.

 

[Ward Jr]

I certainly do remember some of those teamsnlacking more than just a pulse.

I didn't really intend to wade into the Beamer vs Muschamp thing. I was just pretty confident Clemson has had a major drop off these last two years. Meaning I can't compare them vs Clemson as I think they faced very different teams.

The score spread over the course of those five years was the worst in USC history and by a significant margin.

{from above}

In our last six games, we've played 5 ranked teams and been competitive in all of them. This includes 2 wins against top 10 opponents, a bowl game we should have won and a pretty close call against #1 last week.

When did a Will Muschamp team do anything close to that?

Muschamp also didn't have to deal with the NIL or a no-wait portal. He wasn't losing the Bells and Lloyds and was still horrific.

 

[uscwatson21]

Meaning I can't compare them vs Clemson as I think they faced very different teams.

It's just comical because he wants Beamer's record against UGA to be treated differently because they've won two national championships. But he wants Muschamp's record against Clemson to be treated the same when they won two national championships.

 

[Ward Jr]

It's just comical because he wants Beamer's record against UGA to be treated differently because they've won two national championships. But he wants Muschamp's record against Clemson to be treated the same when they won two national championships.

What's comical is that I wasn't even discussing Beamer's record against UGA.

Get some sun and fresh air Watson.

 

[uscwatson21]

What's comical is that I wasn't even discussing Beamer's record against UGA.

Yeah because in three games we've had a pulse in one half and then Georgia woke up and took away our pulse in the second half.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Now you're just being intellectually dishonest when Beamer got to play the worst Clemson team in more than a decade while Muschamp had to play teams that won two national championships.

The only reason they weren't in the playoffs last year is because Beamer booted them out. Muschamp averaged losing to Clemson by 32 points. They were better, but not THAT MUCH better.

 

[uscwatson21]

The only reason they weren't in the playoffs last year is because Beamer booted them out. Muschamp averaged losing to Clemson by 32 points. They were better, but not THAT MUCH better.

lol

 

[Ward Jr]

Yeah because in three games we've had a pulse in one half.

Beamer beat three Top 25 teams last year - including two Top 10 teams.

Muschamp beat three Top 25 teams in five years - including one Top 10 team.

Again, I'm not sold on Beamer long term at this point. However, your comparison is silly.

Will Muschamp was terrible.

 

[uscwatson21]

Beamer beat three Top 25 teams last year - including two Top 10 teams.

Muschamp beat three Top 25 teams in five years - including one Top 10 team.

Again, I'm not sold on Beamer long term at this point. However, your comparison is silly.

Will Muschamp was terrible.

I think you're missing the point... it's pretty silly to say either one is better than the other right now.

Muschamp was the only one to beat a top 3 team, right?

 

[Ward Jr]

I think you're missing the point... it's pretty silly to say either one is better than the other right now.

Muschamp was the only one to beat a top 3 team, right?

No - I think it's pretty easy to see that Beamer has been a better head coach and it's only early in his 3rd season.

Not only did Muschamp get blitzed by P5 teams over his career...His brand of football was unwatchable.

He micro-managed teams into the ground.

Muschamp Nostalgia

+ 19 of 51 versus P5 schools over 5 years. 11 of those 19 wins were teams w/ a losing record.

+ 0-4 versus Clemson with the worst point differential in our history of our program. (55-188)

+ Landed talented QBs who all seemed to regress under his vision.

+ Most players could not catch, tackle or block with any reguarity.

+ Spoke in great detail about nuisances of a winning program up until his dismissal.

+ Received appoximately $40 million from USC to accomplish the aforementioned.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

I think you're missing the point... it's pretty silly to say either one is better than the other right now.

Muschamp was the only one to beat a top 3 team, right?

And then proceeded to lose 5 out of the 6 next games, including App St. It was a good win, but not even close to either the Tennessee or Clemson wins from last year.

 

[stu1cocks]

And I actually went to the effort of replying to you as if you were being serious.

My mistake.

I was being serious in everything I said. I just happened to notice the mutual likings. Seems a little odd, that's all. I am still waiting for one of you two to provide a name by the way. You don't want Beamer. Got it. Name a name.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

No - I think it's pretty easy to see that Beamer has been a better head coach and it's only early in his 3rd season.

Not only did Muschamp get blitzed by P5 teams over his career...His brand of football was unwatchable.

He micro-managed teams into the ground.

Muschamp Nostalgia

+ 19 of 51 versus P5 schools over 5 years. 11 of those 19 wins were teams w/ a losing record.

+ 0-4 versus Clemson with the worst point differential in our history of our program. (55-188)

+ Landed talented QBs who all seemed to regress under his vision.

+ Most players could not catch, tackle or block with any reguarity.

+ Spoke in great detail about nuisances of a winning program up until his dismissal.

+ Received appoximately $40 million from USC to accomplish the aforementioned.

And his treatment of Michael Scarnecchia made me want to kick him in his little MusNuts.

Scar came in and won that Mizzou game in a typhoon. We were 2-2 and had just lost to Kentucky. Pivotal game. A few folks wanted to see more of him because Bentley had been inconsistent. Muschamp hated being questioned about anything on offense. Rarely ever saw him again. And in MSs last game in Williams-Brice, we were up 28-3 on Akron in the fourth quarter. Did Chump give him a chance to get on the field one more time? I was there. Even people in the crowd were chanting for him. A kid that had done everything asked of him, never given an ounce of trouble, and won a big game for us at a critical time. Nope. Marched Bentley's out there for every drive in the fourth. Even with 2 minutes to go.

And when asked about it, he said it was a ball security issue and the weather. Scar had 0 ints and fumbles in a typhoon. Bentley has already had 2 INTs THAT DAY against Akron. I truly believe we was concerned the Scar would have looked better and he didn't want to be challenged. Let that kid, who had been a model athlete AND student, sit on the bench in his last game in WB with the game completely out of reach.

I can get past a coach making a mistake. I can get past a coach being arrogant. But to shit on a good kid like that, I could never get over. The day the fat turd left was a great day for Carolina football.

 

[Lurker123]

I was being serious in everything I said. I just happened to notice the mutual likings. Seems a little odd, that's all. I am still waiting for one of you two to provide a name by the way. You don't want Beamer. Got it. Name a name.

Not sure if you've been around message boards much, but "liking" a post is akin to agreeing with it. Turning that into a lame "extreme love" joke is weak, and doesn't come across as being serious at all.

As for your question, I already answered this by agreeing with you. Seemed odd to get a flame as response to someone in agreement.


I disagree with the notion that Holtz and Spurrier are somehow too removed to be considered relevant, but I agree with you that our best bet is an up and comer.

As I repeatedly said, I wanted someone with a little history of success, even if it meant at a lower level. If we can't get a successful SEC coach, or a successful P5 coach to come here, then go for the guy making a name for himself. The up and comer.

It's a gamble, sure, but just about every hire is.

Where I disagree with the choices made are the philosophies. I don't care for hires with a dubious history (like our last two OC hires) just because they run a "pro style" offense. I think some people become too enamored with that philosophy.

I would rather an aggressive coach, who has some success, even if it's at a G5 school, and even if he's unconventional, or innovative.

 

[stu1cocks]

It wasn't meant to be a flame, I get the like thing, truly. That was a bit of a joke. We do seem to agree on a general description of what we want. I don't know but maybe Beamer is the up and comer? Maybe I am dead ass wrong though. Time will tell. Who do you think we should have hired that would have legitimately come here? That's my real question.

 

[Lurker123]

It wasn't meant to be a flame, I get the like thing, truly. That was a bit of a joke. We do seem to agree on a general description of what we want. I don't know but maybe Beamer is the up and comer? Maybe I am dead ass wrong though. Time will tell. Who do you think we should have hired that would have legitimately come here? That's my real question.

I missed the joke and took it for an insult. My bad. There's a bit of flaming going on, and I forget sometimes which posters get real answers and which get other responses.

As for names, at the time I was sold on Napier, and looked back to remind me, Chadwell was another.

Chadwell is still an unknown, still working his was up, and the jury is still out on Napier too. Imo

As for this year, I don't think anyone should be fired, barring an EPIC meltdown. Beamer has done better than I thought he would.

Where I am in disagreement with the staff is these OC hires. I've always said I'd rather a more aggressive up and comer, maybe even innovative, who's shown a little success at a lower or equal level.

 

[uscwatson21]

No - I think it's pretty easy to see that Beamer has been a better head coach and it's only early in his 3rd season.

Its literally wild you just can't seem to comprehend that ignoring all of the other sides of the argument just makes your argument look weaker.

So far, through this point in their tenures Muschamp had more wins and fewer losses than Beamer.

Not only did Muschamp get blitzed by P5 teams over his career...His brand of football was unwatchable.

You're telling Beamer's teams haven't been unwatchable at times? What joy did you take out of the second half against UNC and UGA where we scored a combined zero points?

+ 0-4 versus Clemson with the worst point differential in our history of our program. (55-188)

We've been over this that you're cherry-picking. So he was winless against Clemson, Beamer is winless against UGA.

+ Landed talented QBs who all seemed to regress under his vision.

Rattler has been the one bright spot for Beamer. But you can't pretend he hasn't had issues like recruiting defensive lineman.

+ Most players could not catch, tackle or block with any reguarity.

Are you honestly pretending we still don't have these issues? When did a Muschamp team give up 9 sacks?

Just a lack of good faith arguing on your side.

 

[Ward Jr]

Its literally wild you just can't seem to comprehend that ignoring all of the other sides of the argument just makes your argument look weaker.

So far, through this point in their tenures Muschamp had more wins and fewer losses than Beamer.


You're telling Beamer's teams haven't been unwatchable at times? What joy did you take out of the second half against UNC and UGA where we scored a combined zero points?




We've been over this that you're cherry-picking. So he was winless against Clemson, Beamer is winless against UGA.

Rattler has been the one bright spot for Beamer. But you can't pretend he hasn't had issues like recruiting defensive lineman.


Are you honestly pretending we still don't have these issues? When did a Muschamp team give up 9 sacks?

Just a lack of good faith arguing on your side.

What's other sides of the argument? Against quality teams, Beamer has been better and he doesn't even have half the games under his belt Muschamp did. Let's see what that looks like at the end of Year 4 or 5. The gap will no doubt widen.

UNC was the first game of the season with many unknowns. The UGA game was solid. We were in the game in the 4th quarter. How many SEC teams or P5 teams can say that after playing in their stadium over the past 5-7 years? Besides us in 2019 - About zero.

Muschamp did beat UGA once in 5 years (2019.) Jake Fromm decided to throw three errant passes to one DB and they shanked a chip FG to lose the game. UGA dominated the stats on that day otherwise.

In comparison, we demolished one of the best teams in the country last year in UT. They had beaten 5 teams in the Top 25 coming into that game including BAMA. Their offense was on fire. And on the heels of that, roll into Death Valley and finally win a game against a team who hadn't lost in their stadium forever. Another Muschamp trademark was getting crushed in games following a decent effort the week prior.

Beamer takes chances. Muschamp takes checks. I'm having a hard time believing that you honestly think Muschamp's games were better TV than Beamers. It's not even close and that's a big deal too. We're not going to be raising many trophies. We're not in the right TV market and don't have the deep pockets. Style points matter too and Beamer is way ahead in that category.

One last - Look at the development of Ratter over the past 6 games. When did any QB improve under the Muschamp system? Bentley came in hot but fizzled out with Muschamp play calling and decision making. Hiliniski got steamrolled. Beamer and his system have given Rattler a chance to be successful and he continues to improve.

 

[uscwatson21]

What's other sides of the argument? Against quality teams, Beamer has been better and he doesn't even have half the games under his belt Muschamp did. Let's see what that looks like at the end of Year 4 or 5. The gap will no doubt widen.

UNC was the first game of the season with many unknowns. The UGA game was solid. We were in the game in the 4th quarter. How many SEC teams or P5 teams can say that after playing in their stadium over the past 5-7 years? Besides us in 2019 - About zero.

It's literally the first game of the season. UGA hasn't played another P5 team so you have no idea if they're as good as the past two teams.

Muschamp did beat UGA once in 5 years (2019.) Jake Fromm decided to throw three errant passes to one DB and they shanked a chip FG to lose the game. UGA dominated the stats on that day otherwise.

So these interceptions matter, but the interception and two fumbles in the Clemson game don't matter? Muschamp was just lucky the FG was missed, and Beamer wasn't lucky that Antonio Williams fumbled the ball to win the game? You're just being intellectually dishonest.

In comparison, we demolished one of the best teams in the country last year in UT. They had beaten 5 teams in the Top 25 coming into that game including BAMA. Their offense was on fire. And on the heels of that, roll into Death Valley and finally win a game against a team who hadn't lost in their stadium forever. Another Muschamp trademark was getting crushed in games following a decent effort the week prior.

But Tennessee finished the season ranked 6th right? Georgia finished 4th in 2019 right? Isn't 4 greater than 6?

One last - Look at the development of Ratter over the past 6 games. When did any QB improve under the Muschamp system? Bentley came in hot but fizzled out with Muschamp play calling and decision making. Hiliniski got steamrolled. Beamer and his system have given Rattler a chance to be successful and he continues to improve.

lol Rattler came here as one of the best QBs in the country.

These mental gymnastics you're having to jump through should be a sign to any reasonable third party at how weak your argument is right now.

 

[Ward Jr]

It's literally the first game of the season. UGA hasn't played another P5 team so you have no idea if they're as good as the past two teams.



So these interceptions matter, but the interception and two fumbles in the Clemson game don't matter? Muschamp was just lucky the FG was missed, and Beamer wasn't lucky that Antonio Williams fumbled the ball to win the game? You're just being intellectually dishonest.


But Tennessee finished the season ranked 6th right? Georgia finished 4th in 2019 right? Isn't 4 greater than 6?




lol Rattler came here as one of the best QBs in the country.

These mental gymnastics you're having to jump through should be a sign to any reasonable third party at how weak your argument is right now.

Watson - You're timeline is littered with mostly negativity about the program since Beamer took over. Now you're making excuses ahead of time for reasons we might win before a game while shining a bright light on Muschamp?

Our team has played 5 ranked teams in 6 games and been competitive in all of them. Will Muschamp could not do that in two straight anytime in his career here. His player development was nonexistent and his style of play was painful. I think you're on an island here.

---------------------

Beamer beat three Top 25 teams last year - including two Top 10 teams.

Muschamp beat three Top 25 teams in five years - including one Top 10 team.

Again, I'm not sold on Beamer long term at this point. However, your comparison is silly.

Will Muschamp was terrible.


Muschamp Nostalgia

+ 19 of 51 versus P5 schools over 5 years. 11 of those 19 wins were teams w/ a losing record.

+ 0-4 versus Clemson with the worst point differential in our history of our program. (55-188)

+ Landed talented QBs who all seemed to regress under his vision.

+ Most players could not catch, tackle or block with any regularity.

+ Spoke in great detail about nuisances of a winning program up until his dismissal.

+ Received approximately $40 million from USC to accomplish the aforementioned.

 

[uscwatson21]

Watson - You're timeline is littered with mostly negativity about the program since Beamer took over. Now you're making excuses ahead of time for reasons we might win before a game while shining a bright light on Muschamp?

Our team has played 5 ranked teams in 6 games and been competitive in all of them. Will Muschamp could not do that in two straight anytime in his career here. His player development was nonexistent and his style of play was painful. I think you're on an island here.

---------------------

Beamer beat three Top 25 teams last year - including two Top 10 teams.

Muschamp beat three Top 25 teams in five years - including one Top 10 team.

Again, I'm not sold on Beamer long term at this point. However, your comparison is silly.

Will Muschamp was terrible.


Muschamp Nostalgia

+ 19 of 51 versus P5 schools over 5 years. 11 of those 19 wins were teams w/ a losing record.

+ 0-4 versus Clemson with the worst point differential in our history of our program. (55-188)

+ Landed talented QBs who all seemed to regress under his vision.

+ Most players could not catch, tackle or block with any regularity.

+ Spoke in great detail about nuisances of a winning program up until his dismissal.

+ Received approximately $40 million from USC to accomplish the aforementioned.

It'll be interesting in 2-3 years when Beamer is axed if you'll come back and admit you were wrong on this one.

The cherry-picking of stats is just impressively ignorant.

 

[stu1cocks]

I missed the joke and took it for an insult. My bad. There's a bit of flaming going on, and I forget sometimes which posters get real answers and which get other responses.

As for names, at the time I was sold on Napier, and looked back to remind me, Chadwell was another.

Chadwell is still an unknown, still working his was up, and the jury is still out on Napier too. Imo

As for this year, I don't think anyone should be fired, barring an EPIC meltdown. Beamer has done better than I thought he would.

Where I am in disagreement with the staff is these OC hires. I've always said I'd rather a more aggressive up and comer, maybe even innovative, who's shown a little success at a lower or equal level.

Makes sense. I hear you on the OCs. I would love to see an innovative one come in. We just don't have the horses to line up against the good teams and play conventionally and we likely never will.

 

[Ward Jr]

It'll be interesting in 2-3 years when Beamer is axed if you'll come back and admit you were wrong on this one.

The cherry-picking of stats is just impressively ignorant.

So now you've switched to fortune teller as your comparison fell flat.

What's your actual argument in all of this?

 

[uscwatson21]

So now you've switched to fortune teller as your comparison fell flat.

What's your actual argument in all of this?

The argument you keep trying to ignore.

That Muschamp was a failure, but here we are and there are legitimate arguments that Muschamp was better than Beamer. In fact, Beamer is going to need to win 6 of the next 9 games just to be equal to Muschamp.

 

[Ward Jr]

The argument you keep trying to ignore.

That Muschamp was a failure, but here we are and there are legitimate arguments that Muschamp was better than Beamer. In fact, Beamer is going to need to win 6 of the next 9 games just to be equal to Muschamp.

You're falling for the same nonsense Muschamp spewed after his first two years.

"We've had as many wins as any coach in South Carolina history our first two seasons." ~ Will Muschamp

The difference is in the details.

First off, I think we can both agree that Beamer had a far better 2nd season that Muschamp did. This speaks to the trajectory of the program and that's as far as we can make the comparison.

Beamer beat two top ten teams back to back and also a Top 20 team. Muschamp lost both of his games in 2017 to ranked opponents. Muschamp got crushed at home to Clemson. Beamer beat Clemson on the road for the first time since before Will Muschamp arrived on USC's campus.

Now let's take a look at Muschamp's first season as well to highlight how his "just add up the wins" comment meant little to nothing. Look at these margins of victory and the level of competition.

2016 Schedule Wins:
UMASS (2-10) - Won by 8pts
Western Carolina (2-9) - Won by 12 pts
East Carolina (3-9) - Won by 5pts
Vandy (6-7) - Won by 3pts
Missouri (4-8) - Won by 10pts
UT (9-4) - Won by 3pts
{And he was demolished by our rival at Williams Brice: Clemson 56 USC: 7}

Muschamp was the definition of a paper tiger.

Muschamp's teams also aged like a bad wine. There was no player development whatsoever. The idea that Beamer is going to be worse from this point forward is unlikely.

Finally, a point that is overlooked but is huge:
Muschamp's key players weren't getting plucked by teams with deeper pockets.

What would the UNC and UGA games have looked like with Bell and Lloyd - two of our best players from last season?

 

[gamecock stock]

It'll be interesting in 2-3 years when Beamer is axed if you'll come back and admit you were wrong on this one.

The cherry-picking of stats is just impressively ignorant.

The argument you keep trying to ignore.

That Muschamp was a failure, but here we are and there are legitimate arguments that Muschamp was better than Beamer. In fact, Beamer is going to need to win 6 of the next 9 games just to be equal to Muschamp.

You could end up being right. However a big difference between Muschamp and Beamer is that Muschamp inherited Spurrier players whereas Beamer inherited Muschamp players. I'd trust Spurrier to recognize talent blindfolded over a wide-eyed Muschamp, every day.

 

[uscwatson21]

You're falling for the same nonsense Muschamp spewed after his first two years.

"We've had as many wins as any coach in South Carolina history our first two seasons." ~ Will Muschamp

The difference is in the details.

lol but you literally spent all day yesterday arguing the details of the difference in Clemson quality meant nothing between the two eras. Suddenly the details matter...

Muschamp's teams also aged like a bad wine. There was no player development whatsoever. The idea that Beamer is going to be worse from this point forward is unlikely.

You're just making things up. Plenty of players developed under Muschamp. He turned a WR recruit from a 1A high school into an NFL draft pick in Darius Rush. Of course, you're just going to try to place all that improvement on Beamer. Because you're not being objective in this discussion.

Finally, a point that is overlooked but is huge:
Muschamp's key players weren't getting plucked by teams with deeper pockets.

What would the UNC and UGA games have looked like with Bell and Lloyd - two of our best players from last season?

What would last year have looked like without Spencer Rattler? You can't count the transfer portal as a negative then ignore how the transfer portal has benefited Beamer.

When Muschamp took over in 2016, he couldn't just bring in a 5 star transfer. He had to win games with true freshman at QB.

 

[uscwatson21]

You could end up being right. However a big difference between Muschamp and Beamer is that Muschamp inherited Spurrier players whereas Beamer inherited Muschamp players. I'd trust Spurrier to recognize talent blindfolded over a wide-eyed Muschamp, every day.

Except our roster was so much worse when Muschamp took over. Our team literally lost to The Citadel because the roster was so poor.

Muschamp couldn't hire offensive coordinators, but he recruited well. Beamer walked into a good decent core and did well to get Rattler which upgraded our one true weakness.

 

[Ward Jr]

lol but you literally spent all day yesterday arguing the details of the difference in Clemson quality meant nothing between the two eras. Suddenly the details matter...

You're just making things up. Plenty of players developed under Muschamp. He turned a WR recruit from a 1A high school into an NFL draft pick in Darius Rush. Of course, you're just going to try to place all that improvement on Beamer. Because you're not being objective in this discussion.


What would last year have looked like without Spencer Rattler? You can't count the transfer portal as a negative then ignore how the transfer portal has benefited Beamer.

When Muschamp took over in 2016, he couldn't just bring in a 5 star transfer. He had to win games with true freshman at QB.

Yesterday I spent a total of 20 minutes responding to your depression as you only insult the team.

Now your argument is again shifting.

------

You started with >> Muschamp was the better coach to date. That failed.

Shifted to fortune telling >> "In the next 2-3 years, Beamer will fail..."

And Now >> "Player Development" This is your weakest yet. Look how many players regressed under Muschamp's watch. That was one of the biggest complaints everyone had of him.

------

Who cares what the program would look like without Rattler? He's currently our QB. Players are developing and we'll see what the team looks like next year. Anything else is fortune telling.

Exactly how has the transfer portal benefitted Beamer in terms of net gain? We're now a staging area for teams with more resources. We take from teams with lesser resources. We are downstream in the equation. If Beamer could kill the NIL and no-wait portal, he would do so in a heartbeat. Any team without a large TV market and/or deep pocketed alumni would say the same.

I've posted the talent Muschamp inherited before. It doesn't matter though. He didn't do anything of relevance but slip by a bunch of crappy teams in 2016. His only decent win was against the #18 ranked UT team at home by a FG.

Once again, I'm not a Beamer evangelist. Historically, stating that a USC coach won't be here after five years has been a pretty decent bet. My point is that Beamer is performing better than Muschamp and keeping the game watchable. We'll see how things progress from this point and re-evaluate when necessary.

 

[uscwatson21]

Now your argument is again shifting.

------

You started with >> Muschamp was the better coach to date. That failed.

Shifted to fortune telling >> "In the next 2-3 years, Beamer will fail..."

And Now >> "Player Development" This is your weakest yet. Look how many players regressed under Muschamp's watch. That was one of the biggest complaints everyone had of him.

What in the world? Responding to your comment about player development is me shifting the argument?

I pity your significant other.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Yesterday I spent a total of 20 minutes responding to your depression as you only insult the team.

That's all these 2 tater assclowns do. That's why they "like" each other so much. Nothing but criticism and negativity.

 

[Ward Jr]

What in the world? Responding to your comment about player development is me shifting the argument?

I pity your significant other.

What's your point Watson? You haven't made a decent point yet. Make just one.

 

[PaleoCock]

What's your point Watson? You haven't made a decent point yet. Make just one.

I'd like to know too. Muschamp did pull a few decent players over those 5 years who were able to overcome his non-existent leadership. However, that's been the case throughout the history of our program. Muschamp should be judged on how the team performed as a whole when he was HC and we all know the answer to that.

 

[uscwatson21]

What's your point Watson? You haven't made a decent point yet. Make just one.

I've made plenty, you just keep ignoring them. And I can't make you act like an adult. So we're at this impasse where you just are refusing to admit you're wrong. I feel like i'm arguing with my wife right now.

 

[Ward Jr]

I've made plenty, you just keep ignoring them. And I can't make you act like an adult. So we're at this impasse where you just are refusing to admit you're wrong. I feel like i'm arguing with my wife right now.

Like? You've repeatedly criticized the team and anyone who supports the team. I've reviewed your comments above. Humor me and revisit your salient point which I've overlooked in this discussion.