Beamer, just happy to be here.

What's your point Watson? You haven't made a decent point yet. Make just one.
I'd like to know too. Muschamp did pull a few decent players over those 5 years who were able to overcome his non-existent leadership. However, that's been the case throughout the history of our program. Muschamp should be judged on how the team performed as a whole when he was HC and we all know the answer to that.

Beamer, just happy to be here.

Now your argument is again shifting.

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You started with >> Muschamp was the better coach to date. That failed.

Shifted to fortune telling >> "In the next 2-3 years, Beamer will fail..."

And Now >> "Player Development" This is your weakest yet. Look how many players regressed under Muschamp's watch. That was one of the biggest complaints everyone had of him.

What in the world? Responding to your comment about player development is me shifting the argument?

I pity your significant other.

Beamer, just happy to be here.

lol but you literally spent all day yesterday arguing the details of the difference in Clemson quality meant nothing between the two eras. Suddenly the details matter...

You're just making things up. Plenty of players developed under Muschamp. He turned a WR recruit from a 1A high school into an NFL draft pick in Darius Rush. Of course, you're just going to try to place all that improvement on Beamer. Because you're not being objective in this discussion.


What would last year have looked like without Spencer Rattler? You can't count the transfer portal as a negative then ignore how the transfer portal has benefited Beamer.

When Muschamp took over in 2016, he couldn't just bring in a 5 star transfer. He had to win games with true freshman at QB.

Yesterday I spent a total of 20 minutes responding to your depression as you only insult the team.

Now your argument is again shifting.

------

You started with >> Muschamp was the better coach to date. That failed.

Shifted to fortune telling >> "In the next 2-3 years, Beamer will fail..."

And Now >> "Player Development" This is your weakest yet. Look how many players regressed under Muschamp's watch. That was one of the biggest complaints everyone had of him.

------

Who cares what the program would look like without Rattler? He's currently our QB. Players are developing and we'll see what the team looks like next year. Anything else is fortune telling.

Exactly how has the transfer portal benefitted Beamer in terms of net gain? We're now a staging area for teams with more resources. We take from teams with lesser resources. We are downstream in the equation. If Beamer could kill the NIL and no-wait portal, he would do so in a heartbeat. Any team without a large TV market and/or deep pocketed alumni would say the same.

I've posted the talent Muschamp inherited before. It doesn't matter though. He didn't do anything of relevance but slip by a bunch of crappy teams in 2016. His only decent win was against the #18 ranked UT team at home by a FG.

Once again, I'm not a Beamer evangelist. Historically, stating that a USC coach won't be here after five years has been a pretty decent bet. My point is that Beamer is performing better than Muschamp and keeping the game watchable. We'll see how things progress from this point and re-evaluate when necessary.

Beamer, just happy to be here.

You could end up being right. However a big difference between Muschamp and Beamer is that Muschamp inherited Spurrier players whereas Beamer inherited Muschamp players. I'd trust Spurrier to recognize talent blindfolded over a wide-eyed Muschamp, every day.

Except our roster was so much worse when Muschamp took over. Our team literally lost to The Citadel because the roster was so poor.

Muschamp couldn't hire offensive coordinators, but he recruited well. Beamer walked into a good decent core and did well to get Rattler which upgraded our one true weakness.

Beamer, just happy to be here.

You're falling for the same nonsense Muschamp spewed after his first two years.

"We've had as many wins as any coach in South Carolina history our first two seasons." ~ Will Muschamp

The difference is in the details.
lol but you literally spent all day yesterday arguing the details of the difference in Clemson quality meant nothing between the two eras. Suddenly the details matter...
Muschamp's teams also aged like a bad wine. There was no player development whatsoever. The idea that Beamer is going to be worse from this point forward is unlikely.
You're just making things up. Plenty of players developed under Muschamp. He turned a WR recruit from a 1A high school into an NFL draft pick in Darius Rush. Of course, you're just going to try to place all that improvement on Beamer. Because you're not being objective in this discussion.

Finally, a point that is overlooked but is huge:
Muschamp's key players weren't getting plucked by teams with deeper pockets.

What would the UNC and UGA games have looked like with Bell and Lloyd - two of our best players from last season?
What would last year have looked like without Spencer Rattler? You can't count the transfer portal as a negative then ignore how the transfer portal has benefited Beamer.

When Muschamp took over in 2016, he couldn't just bring in a 5 star transfer. He had to win games with true freshman at QB.

Beamer, just happy to be here.

It'll be interesting in 2-3 years when Beamer is axed if you'll come back and admit you were wrong on this one.

The cherry-picking of stats is just impressively ignorant.
The argument you keep trying to ignore.

That Muschamp was a failure, but here we are and there are legitimate arguments that Muschamp was better than Beamer. In fact, Beamer is going to need to win 6 of the next 9 games just to be equal to Muschamp.
You could end up being right. However a big difference between Muschamp and Beamer is that Muschamp inherited Spurrier players whereas Beamer inherited Muschamp players. I'd trust Spurrier to recognize talent blindfolded over a wide-eyed Muschamp, every day.

Beamer, just happy to be here.

The argument you keep trying to ignore.

That Muschamp was a failure, but here we are and there are legitimate arguments that Muschamp was better than Beamer. In fact, Beamer is going to need to win 6 of the next 9 games just to be equal to Muschamp.

You're falling for the same nonsense Muschamp spewed after his first two years.

"We've had as many wins as any coach in South Carolina history our first two seasons." ~ Will Muschamp

The difference is in the details.

First off, I think we can both agree that Beamer had a far better 2nd season that Muschamp did. This speaks to the trajectory of the program and that's as far as we can make the comparison.

Beamer beat two top ten teams back to back and also a Top 20 team. Muschamp lost both of his games in 2017 to ranked opponents. Muschamp got crushed at home to Clemson. Beamer beat Clemson on the road for the first time since before Will Muschamp arrived on USC's campus.

Now let's take a look at Muschamp's first season as well to highlight how his "just add up the wins" comment meant little to nothing. Look at these margins of victory and the level of competition.

2016 Schedule Wins:
UMASS (2-10) - Won by 8pts
Western Carolina (2-9) - Won by 12 pts
East Carolina (3-9) - Won by 5pts
Vandy (6-7) - Won by 3pts
Missouri (4-8) - Won by 10pts
UT (9-4) - Won by 3pts
{And he was demolished by our rival at Williams Brice: Clemson 56 USC: 7}

Muschamp was the definition of a paper tiger.

Muschamp's teams also aged like a bad wine. There was no player development whatsoever. The idea that Beamer is going to be worse from this point forward is unlikely.

Finally, a point that is overlooked but is huge:
Muschamp's key players weren't getting plucked by teams with deeper pockets.

What would the UNC and UGA games have looked like with Bell and Lloyd - two of our best players from last season?

Beamer, just happy to be here.

So now you've switched to fortune teller as your comparison fell flat.

What's your actual argument in all of this?

The argument you keep trying to ignore.

That Muschamp was a failure, but here we are and there are legitimate arguments that Muschamp was better than Beamer. In fact, Beamer is going to need to win 6 of the next 9 games just to be equal to Muschamp.

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If you read the article you linked along with others covering the exact same statement, she specifically mentioned not conceding in the days right after the election "until the final outcome is determined" and "absentee ballots are counted."

But I know reading for context is an insurmountable challenge for you.

Because it's a lie.

Hillary still claims the 2016 was illegitimate. And I'm pretty sure "the final outcome is determined" and "absentee ballots are counted."

Sorry reality is an insurmountable challenge for you.

Beamer, just happy to be here.

I missed the joke and took it for an insult. My bad. There's a bit of flaming going on, and I forget sometimes which posters get real answers and which get other responses.

As for names, at the time I was sold on Napier, and looked back to remind me, Chadwell was another.

Chadwell is still an unknown, still working his was up, and the jury is still out on Napier too. Imo

As for this year, I don't think anyone should be fired, barring an EPIC meltdown. Beamer has done better than I thought he would.

Where I am in disagreement with the staff is these OC hires. I've always said I'd rather a more aggressive up and comer, maybe even innovative, who's shown a little success at a lower or equal level.
Makes sense. I hear you on the OCs. I would love to see an innovative one come in. We just don't have the horses to line up against the good teams and play conventionally and we likely never will.
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Everybody said before the 2016 election that Hilbabeast was going to win. Time even printing covers. How did that work out?

He had and has every right to question the election. Hilbabeast still claims the 2016 results aren't valid. That gapped tooth blimp of a b1tch from Georgia has never conceded. Benedict Biden and Jimmah Carter BOTH still claim that Al Gore was rightfully elected and the election was stolen.

Cry me a river. Only seems to be an issue when Republicans have questions. Then its, "we gotta save democracy". lol

Trump and your ilk are on a major losing streak.

Beamer, just happy to be here.

Watson - You're timeline is littered with mostly negativity about the program since Beamer took over. Now you're making excuses ahead of time for reasons we might win before a game while shining a bright light on Muschamp?

Our team has played 5 ranked teams in 6 games and been competitive in all of them. Will Muschamp could not do that in two straight anytime in his career here. His player development was nonexistent and his style of play was painful. I think you're on an island here.

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Beamer beat three Top 25 teams last year - including two Top 10 teams.

Muschamp beat three Top 25 teams in five years - including one Top 10 team.

Again, I'm not sold on Beamer long term at this point. However, your comparison is silly.

Will Muschamp was terrible.


Muschamp Nostalgia

+ 19 of 51 versus P5 schools over 5 years. 11 of those 19 wins were teams w/ a losing record.

+ 0-4 versus Clemson with the worst point differential in our history of our program. (55-188)

+ Landed talented QBs who all seemed to regress under his vision.

+ Most players could not catch, tackle or block with any regularity.

+ Spoke in great detail about nuisances of a winning program up until his dismissal.

+ Received approximately $40 million from USC to accomplish the aforementioned.

It'll be interesting in 2-3 years when Beamer is axed if you'll come back and admit you were wrong on this one.

The cherry-picking of stats is just impressively ignorant.

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