All AAA baseball parks to have electronic strike zone this year

[Neanderthal]

So let's call it what it is. This is about reducing the size of the zone. Why are umpires increasing the size of the zone? What do they know that others dont? I cant help but feel we are only getting half the story here. Imo, there is a reason why they've done this.

Well, everybody has their theory and I’ve got mine. I believe the baseball powers want more offense, just like the NBA and NFL do. They know the money is with the fly-by-night fan who wants to go to the game and see the scoreboard light up. Most fans do not understand the intricacies of the game and do not have an interest in the inner workings of teams and players and the sport. They want ESPN sensational plays everywhere. So the rules have to be stretched in sports to accommodate the offense. ……. You can’t hit the QB high or low or fall on him. You can’t touch the receivers as much. You can’t draw a charge and you can carry the ball and walk all you want (unless you are a post man because “we” don’t want the ball in the post - good post play is boring to the average fan). No traps on the ice. The Caps defense when they were rolling is outlawed. Now, pitchers you must throw the ball in there to a tight zone so they can hit it out of the park and all the fans can jump up and down and it’ll be on ESPN. A hit-and-run or a bunt single will never make the sports shows.

The professional players will always adjust to the rules. It’s not their fault. They’ll try to get by with everything they can and why not? It’s the owners pressuring the rules committees to give us offense and sensation. The average fan don’t want to see good defense - it doesn’t sell tickets.

 

[bucketdad]

What would they do about the strike zone? Officially, it’s from the knees to the lettering. We know every ump calls it from the knees to the belt, or thereabouts

Again, I dont like it but if they must make the zone uniform for everyone (except high and low based on each player) they should also expand the size of the plate. The reduced zone is asking too much in this day and age of pitchers... pitchers we monitor more than ever for pitch counts and guard against overuse. Any time you decrease the target, you have to be more accurate. More accuracy means more reps. More reps mean more surgery. And to expect those guy to stay away from the middle of the plate in a reduced zone, putting them in more danger (head taken off) is again asking too much imo. This is why I believe the umps increased the size of the zone. Pitcher safety and health. Pitchers arent as accurate today as they have been in the past. I think a good pitcher might hit his spot 60% of the time. My suggestion is increase the zone by increasing the size of the plate along with this electronic zone, both need to happen to be anything close to a good move. Uniformity in the zone with less problems caused by it. I do wish they would have left all this alone tho. I'm kinda proposing two wrongs to make the first wrong a little less wrong. Lol.
I guess if the public thinks the umps are terrible tho, right or wrong they're gonna do something. I just dont believe they are as bad as some make out.

 

[bucketdad]

If this is less about a zone for everyone and more about producing more offense. It comes at the pitchers risk.

I can promise you guys this, let's say you have a son or daughter that grew up pitching. And they became pretty good. Hitting more spots than they miss. Now they get surrounded by really good players on the infield and as is usually the case, it becomes pretty clear your kid is the worse defensive player on the infield and they closer to the plate than anyone. And because you are a really good team, you are playing other really good teams. And those teams you are playing are stepping up to the plate with high dollar rocket launchers on their shoulders. And you are sitting in the stands with great anticipation. Then it becomes real clear real fast that this umpire is one of a few with a small zone. Maybe he wants to see more hits. Who knows? You can deny it all you want but I promise you are very concerned about your kid out there. Then if they get through this unscathed, you are hoping you never see that umpire again.

I've seen this play out in the past for kids up to 18 years old. Pretty sure there are 18 year old kids in the minors.
Ok rant over.

 

[uscwatson21]

If this is less about a zone for everyone and more about producing more offense. It comes at the pitchers risk.

I can promise you guys this, let's say you have a son or daughter that grew up pitching. And they became pretty good. Hitting more spots than they miss. Now they get surrounded by really good players on the infield and as is usually the case, it becomes pretty clear your kid is the worse defensive player on the infield and they closer to the plate than anyone. And because you are a really good team, you are playing other really good teams. And those teams you are playing are stepping up to the plate with high dollar rocket launchers on their shoulders. And you are sitting in the stands with great anticipation. Then it becomes real clear real fast that this umpire is one of a few with a small zone. Maybe he wants to see more hits. Who knows? You can deny it all you want but I promise you are very concerned about your kid out there. Then if they get through this unscathed, you are hoping you never see that umpire again.

I've seen this play out in the past for kids up to 18 years old. Pretty sure there are 18 year old kids in the minors.
Ok rant over.

This is legitimately the worst argument possible. You want an umpire to make bad calls to protect your son because he’s bad at fielding a baseball?

Wow. That is the most anti-baseball argument possible.

 

[bucketdad]

This is legitimately the worst argument possible. You want an umpire to make bad calls to protect your son because he’s bad at fielding a baseball?

Wow. That is the most anti-baseball argument possible.

I'm not surprised at all in your response. I've post three rather lengthy posts with my opinion this subject. If that's what you ended up with, run with it.

 

[bayrooster]

What would they do about the strike zone? Officially, it’s from the knees to the lettering. We know every ump calls it from the knees to the belt, or thereabouts

not sure how computer vision would accurately locate every batter's knees if they weren't bending much, but the belt is more visible and the location is consistently relative to their height.

 

[king ward]

What does this have to do if the umpire calls a ball a foot off the plate?

You reckon they didn't miss calls when Williams was playing?

 

[uscwatson21]

You reckon they didn't miss calls when Williams was playing?

So because people made mistakes in the past we should keep letting them make mistakes?

 

[king ward]

I guess if you enjoy watching lead paint dry to the wall. The game definitely needs some work.

First there was the adoption of the DH. Then they lowered the pitcher's mound - and they shouldn't have done that. Now they have the "ghost runner rule", placing a runner on second when a game goes into extra innings - a ridiculous profaning of the game. But that's another area of absurdity.

 

[king ward]

So because people made mistakes in the past we should keep letting them make mistakes?

If an umpire is patently incompetent, drop him from whatever level he is, just as happens to players. But the human element of officiating should not be removed. Dehumanization is not progress. This is a game of people.

 

[Boom4life]

If an umpire is patently incompetent, drop him from whatever level he is, just as happens to players. But the human element of officiating should not be removed. Dehumanization is not progress. This is a game of people.

That technology can clean up the sport by taking the human error out. I would like to see a comparison between the cameras and human calls. That should be taken out the equation in my opinion. Sports progress and evolve to. CFB is evolving now. Nothing wrong with dropping the umpires calls over technology.

Better get rid of replay. letting human error make the call in a game that leads to the wrong team winning is better than using cameras to get the call right, in what world does that make sense. Plate counts are the same thing.

 

[uscwatson21]

If an umpire is patently incompetent, drop him from whatever level he is, just as happens to players. But the human element of officiating should not be removed. Dehumanization is not progress. This is a game of people.

So umpires play the game? It’s such a weird argument. No one goes to the ballpark to watch the umpires. They’re merely there to keep the game moving along between the players we actually pay to see.

The MLB average strike call accuracy is 88%. That’s a lot of missed calls. And the players obviously aren’t ok with that many missed calls, otherwise they wouldn’t argue with the umpires.

 

[Boom4life]

So umpires play the game? It’s such a weird argument. No one goes to the ballpark to watch the umpires. They’re merely there to keep the game moving along between the players we actually pay to see.

The MLB average strike call accuracy is 88%. That’s a lot of missed calls. And the players obviously aren’t ok with that many missed calls, otherwise they wouldn’t argue with the umpires.

In my opinion 99% is an injustice to the pitchers and batters alike. It only takes one missed called pitch to swing a game one way or the other.

 

[king ward]

So umpires play the game? It’s such a weird argument. No one goes to the ballpark to watch the umpires. They’re merely there to keep the game moving along between the players we actually pay to see.

The MLB average strike call accuracy is 88%. That’s a lot of missed calls. And the players obviously aren’t ok with that many missed calls, otherwise they wouldn’t argue with the umpires.

No one ever said that umpires "play" the game. That's an absurd retort. Conflict with umpires over calls is an integral part of the lore and color of the game. It should not be sacrificed because some people want to bring "perfection" to the game. If that were possible, such homogenization would only diminish the entertainment value of the game. It's part of the fun.

 

[ToddFlanders]

Again, I dont like it but if they must make the zone uniform for everyone (except high and low based on each player) they should also expand the size of the plate. The reduced zone is asking too much in this day and age of pitchers... pitchers we monitor more than ever for pitch counts and guard against overuse. Any time you decrease the target, you have to be more accurate. More accuracy means more reps. More reps mean more surgery. And to expect those guy to stay away from the middle of the plate in a reduced zone, putting them in more danger (head taken off) is again asking too much imo. This is why I believe the umps increased the size of the zone. Pitcher safety and health. Pitchers arent as accurate today as they have been in the past. I think a good pitcher might hit his spot 60% of the time. My suggestion is increase the zone by increasing the size of the plate along with this electronic zone, both need to happen to be anything close to a good move. Uniformity in the zone with less problems caused by it. I do wish they would have left all this alone tho. I'm kinda proposing two wrongs to make the first wrong a little less wrong. Lol.
I guess if the public thinks the umps are terrible tho, right or wrong they're gonna do something. I just dont believe they are as bad as some make out.

I feel like the strike zone will be larger with a robot zone. It will have have all the corners of the zone covered (especially at the top of the zone). I see this being good for pitchers as they can probably get more people to chase high fast balls if the batters know their lettering is in play (or real close to in play). Seems that all umpires cut the zone in half as it is - this could give pitchers more zone to play with.

 

[uscwatson21]

No one ever said that umpires "play" the game. That's an absurd retort. Conflict with umpires over calls is an integral part of the lore and color of the game. It should not be sacrificed because some people want to bring "perfection" to the game. If that were possible, such homogenization would only diminish the entertainment value of the game. It's part of the fun.

Now you’re taking issue with your own argument. That just sums up that your argument is disingenuous.

No one legitimately believes Jim Joyce ruining a perfect game is part of the lore of the game.

 

[bucketdad]

I feel like the strike zone will be larger with a robot zone. It will have have all the corners of the zone covered (especially at the top of the zone). I see this being good for pitchers as they can probably get more people to chase high fast balls if the batters know their lettering is in play (or real close to in play). Seems that all umpires cut the zone in half as it is - this could give pitchers more zone to play with.

I'd like nothing more than for that to be the case. Obviously there are a lot of unknowns. I suppose that's why it's still in a "testing" phase. We are left to speculate. My gut says the target will shrink but I'd like to wrong. I said earlier I get the feeling we are only getting half the story primarly because I see very little on how it will affect pitchers so I thought I'd throw in a few possibilities.
I read somewhere where the margin of error on the E-zone is one inch. It will be interesting to see how that is handled.

 

[hillstosea]

First there was the adoption of the DH. Then they lowered the pitcher's mound - and they shouldn't have done that. Now they have the "ghost runner rule", placing a runner on second when a game goes into extra innings - a ridiculous profaning of the game. But that's another area of absurdity.

This, this, this

 

[king ward]

Now you’re taking issue with your own argument. That just sums up that your argument is disingenuous.

No one legitimately believes Jim Joyce ruining a perfect game is part of the lore of the game.

But, indeed it is. Otherwise you wouldn't bring it up. Whatever my argument is, it isn't disingenuous. For that to be true, I would have to be insincere. I could not possible be more sincere. The sublime appeal of baseball rests in its various human aspects, both the rough and the smooth. Denude it of the umpire's most essential role(s) and you have reduced it.

 

[bucketdad]

Typically when I see a batter arguing a strike call, he's usually doing it as he is walking away. Most of the time he just got caught looking. A backwards K. And he ain't happy. Lol. I laugh at the thought that somehow that is the umpire's fault. This is a "stop your whining and protect the plate!" moment. There's an old saying "when in doubt, swing". What you want to bet that pitch was close enough that it should have been in doubt.
Maybe guys are coddled so much these days that dont get that kind of pushback idk. Just blame the umps.

 

[uscwatson21]

But, indeed it is. Otherwise you wouldn't bring it up. Whatever my argument is, it isn't disingenuous. For that to be true, I would have to be insincere. I could not possible be more sincere. The sublime appeal of baseball rests in its various human aspects, both the rough and the smooth. Denude it of the umpire's most essential role(s) and you have reduced it.

You're absolutely being insincere by arguing it's a good thing for baseball for a perfect game to be ruined by a blown call.

There is no chance you honestly believe that.

 

[uscwatson21]

Typically when I see a batter arguing a strike call, he's usually doing it as he is walking away. Most of the time he just got caught looking. A backwards K. And he ain't happy. Lol. I laugh at the thought that somehow that is the umpire's fault. This is a "stop your whining and protect the plate!" moment. There's an old saying "when in doubt, swing". What you want to bet that pitch was close enough that it should have been in doubt.
Maybe guys are coddled so much these days that dont get that kind of pushback idk. Just blame the umps.

lol, the ump shouldn't be blamed for making a bad call that led to a strikeout?

The mental gymnastics in this post is phenomenal.

 

[bucketdad]

lol, the ump shouldn't be blamed for making a bad call that led to a strikeout?

The mental gymnastics in this post is phenomenal.

So you are pushing back on a basic hitting approach that has been taken and taught by nearly everyone since the beginning of time? No I cant see myself having a player look at a third strike and saying that's ok, it's the umps fault.

It might help your case some if instead of trying to make other posts you disagree with look stupid you would make at least one post that would suggest you know anything about the game itself.

 

[hillstosea]

So you are pushing back on a basic hitting approach that has been taken and taught by nearly everyone since the beginning of time? No I cant see myself having a player look at a third strike and saying that's ok, it's the umps fault.

It might help your case some if instead of trying to make other posts you disagree with look stupid you would make at least one post that would suggest you know anything about the game itself.

That’s what I was thinking. Doesn’t really know baseball. Again, just wants to argue. Unless he’s entertaining, just don’t respond

 

[king ward]

You're absolutely being insincere by arguing it's a good thing for baseball for a perfect game to be ruined by a blown call.

There is no chance you honestly believe that.

Vicissitudes in human enterprise are inevitable and do not make a case for changing the the intrinsic character and conduct of a great game. Get the best umpires you can and let them do what they do. If one is frequently inept, then fire has @$$.

 

[uscwatson21]

So you are pushing back on a basic hitting approach that has been taken and taught by nearly everyone since the beginning of time? No I cant see myself having a player look at a third strike and saying that's ok, it's the umps fault.

It might help your case some if instead of trying to make other posts you disagree with look stupid you would make at least one post that would suggest you know anything about the game itself.

lol claiming someone else doesn’t understand the game when you’re arguing players should be punished for having a good eye for balls or strikes.

No hitting coach is ever going to teach players to swing at balls. What you’re trying to describe as protecting the plate isn’t based on baseball, it’s based on an acknowledged flaw in umpires. That isn’t a good thing. You don’t blame someone for getting their stuff stolen. You blame the thief.

 

[uscwatson21]

Vicissitudes in human enterprise are inevitable and do not make a case for changing the the intrinsic character and conduct of a great game. Get the best umpires you can and let them do what they do. If one is frequently inept, then fire has @$$.

By statistics, all umpires are inept*

Can’t wait for you to now argue statistics are anti-baseball.

 

[bucketdad]

lol claiming someone else doesn’t understand the game when you’re arguing players should be punished for having a good eye for balls or strikes.

No hitting coach is ever going to teach players to swing at balls. What you’re trying to describe as protecting the plate isn’t based on baseball, it’s based on an acknowledged flaw in umpires. That isn’t a good thing. You don’t blame someone for getting their stuff stolen. You blame the thief.

Oh ok. Dont swing at balls. Lol

 

[uscwatson21]

Oh ok. Dont swing at balls. Lol

Posts like this just show how disingenuous your argument is on the subject.

That’s what I was thinking. Doesn’t really know baseball. Again, just wants to argue. Unless he’s entertaining, just don’t respond

This argument just really boils down that you guys want to tell yourself that you're somehow better fans than others.

No one legitimately believes umpires making bad calls is a good thing.

 

[bayrooster]

Posts like this just show how disingenuous your argument is on the subject.



This argument just really boils down that you guys want to tell yourself that you're somehow better fans than others.

No one legitimately believes umpires making bad calls is a good thing.

Each team could get to challenge one called strike per at-bat using the electronic strike zone, in the same way USTA checks challenged "out" calls. It might have the bonus effect of making plate umps more consistent.

 

[king ward]

By statistics, all umpires are inept*

Can’t wait for you to now argue statistics are anti-baseball.

No, you can't.

 

[uscwatson21]

===

Each team could get to challenge one called strike per at-bat using the electronic strike zone, in the same way USTA checks challenged "out" calls. It might have the bonus effect of making plate umps more consistent.

Tennis is moving away from this because it's inefficient. You might as well just get every call right.

The automated strike calls are just so plainly obvious that they're good for the game of baseball. Pitchers should be rewarded for good pitches and Batters shouldn't be punished for bad pitches.

 

[FORKCOCK]

But, indeed it is. Otherwise you wouldn't bring it up. Whatever my argument is, it isn't disingenuous. For that to be true, I would have to be insincere. I could not possible be more sincere. The sublime appeal of baseball rests in its various human aspects, both the rough and the smooth. Denude it of the umpire's most essential role(s) and you have reduced it.

Today's youth never heard of Omaha Beach. They have no clue who Daniel Boone or Davey Crockett were. They have the attention span of a gnat. They could never grasp what the true baseball fan loves about the sport. They just want to check their fantasy stats on their iPhone.

 

[ToddFlanders]

Today's youth never heard of Omaha Beach. They have no clue who Daniel Boone or Davey Crockett were. They have the attention span of a gnat. They could never grasp what the true baseball fan loves about the sport. They just want to check their fantasy stats on their iPhone.

I don't necessarily believe that is true (attention spans negating the ability to understand what "true baseball fans" love). I think it's more to do with the youth not valuing the same things. Enjoying the beauty of getting the most basic call in the game incorrect just doesn't fly with today's generation. But you also have to realize that baseball already implemented instant replay almost a decade ago - to overturn calls by the humans. To the "youth" this is the game they grew up watching. When you already have replay, and MLB puts up the strike zone graphic during games so you can see incorrect calls in real time, then just letting the robots call it is the logical next step.

I for one did not like the missed push off by Rod Gardner at the end of the USC/clem game in 2000, but I guess to some the human element of that missed call is what makes football beautiful as well. I don't think the "youth" would be down with that way of thinking in football either.

 

[bucketdad]

Posts like this just show how disingenuous your argument is on the subject.



This argument just really boils down that you guys want to tell yourself that you're somehow better fans than others.

No one legitimately believes umpires making bad calls is a good thing.

I'm perfectly capable of having a civil conversation with someone with an opposing view. In fact I like hearing an opposing view, especally in baseball. But when I get some internet troll telling me my opinion is dumb, an opinion I have formed after decades in the sport, I want to know what qualifies him to say that and see if I can figurre out why I should care. This is not about who is the better fan but if it comes across that way, you brought that on.

 

[uscwatson21]

I'm perfectly capable of having a civil conversation with someone with an opposing view. In fact I like hearing an opposing view, especally in baseball. But when I get some internet troll telling me my opinion is dumb, an opinion I have formed after decades in the sport, I want to know what qualifies him to say that and see if I can figurre out why I should care. This is not about who is the better fan but if it comes across that way, you brought that on.

Maybe instead of calling other people trolls you should actually heed their advise.

So far you’ve said you would rather umpires determine who wins games instead of the players. Think about that for a moment and you should realize why that argument is considered dumb.

Your argument just comes off completely out of touch with what people really enjoy about sports.

 

[Cybercock]

Maybe instead of calling other people trolls you should actually heed their advise.

So far you’ve said you would rather umpires determine who wins games instead of the players. Think about that for a moment and you should realize why that argument is considered dumb.

Your argument just comes off completely out of touch with what people really enjoy about sports.

I don't see how you can get that out if what he has posted unless that's what you are looking for in his comments but ok.

 

[uscwatson21]

I don't see how you can get that out if what he has posted unless that's what you are looking for in his comments but ok.

Frankly, if you feel that way you're just not reading his posts critically.

He's made it apparent he enjoys that umpires have created their own strike zones in an attempt to control the outcome of at bats. If his issue is the strike zone, the way to address that is through a rule change. It's not allowing umpires to call balls strikes and change the outcome of games at their whim.

Rules are vital to sports because they make the sport fair. Each side knows what to expect. Sports are fun because of the players. I shouldn't be cheated out of watching Aaron Judge swing a bat because an umpire thinks it's unfair to pitch to him.

 

[Neanderthal]

I wonder if that strike zone graphic is accurate. Could be off half a bubble sometimes.

 

[Boom4life]

No one ever said that umpires "play" the game. That's an absurd retort. Conflict with umpires over calls is an integral part of the lore and color of the game. It should not be sacrificed because some people want to bring "perfection" to the game. If that were possible, such homogenization would only diminish the entertainment value of the game. It's part of the fun.

BS, losing a game because of a bad call is neither a fun part of the game, nor a necessary one. Fans and players deserve to have the right call.